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Debating "Average" Federal Salary Figures

Federal Salaries Comparison- Better Method

Retired Research Scientist
Retired From NOAA
Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:28 PM

Post Reply

Rather than using the Median, the better statistic to use in this case would probably be the Mode.

The Mode is the most frequently occuring value. The Median, which is the value halfway between the maximum and the minumum is better than the Average, but is still distorted by lots of extreme values.

If the Mode is used, I expect most readers will feel much better about the results, although the other comments about apples and oranges bad comparisons are still valid.

Re: Federal Salaries Comparison- Better Method

Information Technology Specialist
DoD
Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:35 PM
I'm sure if you tweak the statistics enough, one can eventually get them to show whatever outcome is desired. That's evident in many of these comments - people are just seeing what they want to see since it fits their agendas. Unfortunately, facts are still facts whether you like them or not.

Re: Federal Salaries Comparison- Better Method

HR Specialist
USDA
Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:44 PM
Won't change it. The mode will come up GS-11, which is in the 60K range.

Liars figure, figures lie - lies, damn lies, and statistics

Analyst
DoD
Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:11 AM

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I've been active duty military (officer, non-retired), support contractor, and finally decided to take a TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLAR cut in pay to join civil service, DOING EXACTLY what I did in the military and as a contractor. I left the military because the military is being run by insufficiently trained officers who depend on the "good ole boy" service academy and collegiate cronies for the plumb jobs. Well guess what? They retire to the beltway bandits and the system is duplicated there. So I went civil service. NOW GUESS WHAT? YEP, retired officers are now feathering their nests for either beltway bandit jobs OR CIVIL SERVICE JOBS NOW (because Congress changed the law about 3 - 4 years ago). Our organizations cannot hire good, desireable straight-out-of college graduates with fresh degrees because retarded Cols, LtCols get veterans preference. In-breeding such as this is the reason the USA has become a welfare nation - and civil service an exclusive "white-collar" welfare club.

Re: Liars figure, figures lie - lies, damn lies, and statistics

Civil Servant
DOL
Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:00 AM
DO NOT put down the vet preference. It helps many people gets good jobs with benefits to take care of their families.

As for officers...they do not just get vet pref. There are specific rules for higher level officers to get vet pref i.e. they must be disabled.

Do not change the subject--we were discussing salaries...

Federal Pay

Program Manager
USDA
Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:27 AM

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The median was interesting - it was slightly higher than I had thought it would be. However, the logical follow-up now is for an analysis of comparison of federal job categories with the pay and benefits of like categories. I am a GS-13 and am well compensated in my opinion. Based on information from colleagues who left for the private sector (lending), my pay and benefits are less than a comparable job in the private section. However, my work schedule is much more flexible, I have more vacation days. I also have a more secure retirement (I think!) and don't have to "sell" the product to make a profit. In my state, the employees are 8 grade 7, 11 grade 11 and 10 grade 12. Therefore, the median income would be high as you report. Lending is also technical, and therefore the need is for a highly qualified workforce. We have a lesser need for lower paid technical workers. The fact that many federal jobs are more technical in nature has led to more employees in the GS-11-13 pay grades, as opposed to GS-9 and below. At one time we needed 1 techical per loan officer. Now the ratio is probably 1 to 3.

Avgerage Psay Fed vs Private

management and program analyst
DHS
Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:31 AM

Post Reply

I have friends in Contracting/Procurement. They tell me it is cheaper to hire a contractor than keep a fed. 2nd: DC has a huge amount of these contractors. The individual contractor may not make what the individual Fed does, but his company makes enough out of placing him that they run a corporation and make a profit after paying their officers' eggregious salaries. On the other hand a contractor can be fired, even a contract ended; a Fed is kept on, and is assigned other work if the work he was doing ends. How can Feds be compared with Contractors when different rules govern each? And don't even bring retirement into it! I'm in the FERS program. I will make less than my CSRS coworkers unless I make some hefty savings decisions-just like private sector employees! The only saving grace is that I will probably stay a Fed until I retire at 65-and it's 65 because FERS can't afford to leave sooner. Gotta build up that TSP!

Average Salary

HR Specialist
USDA
Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:40 PM

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Why are some having such a hard time believing that 60K is the average or median or whatever you want to call it. It's a fact, and as a fed classifier for over 25 years, I can certainly believe it. But its way too difficult to generally compare that to the entire private sector. I just read that (2005 stats) a whopping 17% of American households now bring home over 100K. 17% is almost 1 in 5. So there are obviously alot of private sector types making alot of money. Trouble is, the same study showed how the lower end of the workforce hasn't made any gain since 2001. The widening gap that everyone knows about. That's not true in the fed. All grade levels get the same percentage increase yearly, along with within grade increase. Two obvious factors are the ever increasing numbers of GS-13 and above positions, and the ever decreasing numbers of GS-5 and below positions. In 20 years, average grade has increased from GS-7 to GS-11.

Re: Average Salary

management and program analyst
DHS
Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:28 AM
I do believe HR ought to know. And the fact there is no pay gap in the Gov't is to be commended. What if the private sector followed that lead? Why can't it take care of its lower paid workers as we do. If they did that, the average salary of private employees could equal or exceed the public sector. Instead of complaining about our "so high" pay, why not find ways to eliminate the "their" pay gap between the lowest paid and the highest paid workers? Gov't DOES pay better for college degrees, BUT time in grade doing the same work will give promotions to anyone who can deliver. If the Gov't average, median, etc. pay beats private, why aren't there more Gov't employees? Why must we spend time and money recruiting if the deal is so good? And, by the way, why not hold the higher paid private sector grades to the same salary ceiling GS emp;oyees have? Yeah, right.

last para: retirement pay=useless

eng. tech
DOD
Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:19 PM

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The article said the avg CSRS was about $2400 in monthly pay. Vs FERS of $860. I see little use in this paragraph. What is the
avg. pay of FERS using all three components or even better, what is the avg. retirement pay for grades GS5-9 and then the GS 10-13 grouping.

You can look up the data yourself

Manager
DOC
Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:30 PM

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For those who are skeptical, you can get the average salary yourself from OPM. From the Feddata website.

If you did, it would reveal that it is GS that drives the average salary at $63,124. That doesn't include the 7,057 SES (Governmentwide Plans) who average $150,000. The GS control the average because of the 1,844,517 federal employees in March 2006, 1,307,916 are in the GS pay plan.

That only leaves 500,000 or so in other plans, of which 200,000 are in blue collar plans and average less than $45,000.

See for yourself:

http://www.fedscope.opm.gov/cognos/cgi-bin/ppdscgi.exe?BZ=1AAABT0ZWSjYABEwU6VFChhEjU8q2A6Pljyl0wtCpM~cWRdrAYfMmT5sybuhKpyZh5IxB_7cHhg0TQqL0GNtezI9dMXDMIAHzQ80umfn2kCBZd2Y1zi6yZCxmcbFqb0w8JKCEyfsKCpswbt_2mX5H5IQhS6QUhA2bEjByNCkSZEoVKUWmOiScXTPvVkZmn9iunNog5g1iasOLkCDaes1Wj40YNZswlvToTXDWxsybBLFTtlycTUBTwpYhOXml1U1cK6a1doZuHPbGbAo3yk6aMWUTvw8yuwH~

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