Readers' Comments
Total Comments: 75
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Court Upholds Removal for Absences Even When Excused for Health Reasons
Total Comments: 75
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disturbing
USDA
Thu Dec 7, 2006 6:21 AM
Post Reply
This is the most disturbing thing I have read in a long time.
Non-disc. Removal of AF employee
NAVAIR
Thu Dec 7, 2006 7:08 AM
Post Reply
Now this is an interesting article. I did not know this could happen. Keep up the good reporting work.
Removal for absences
US NRC
Thu Dec 7, 2006 7:53 AM
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I, too, did not realize this could happen. I understand if the agency needs someone for the position, but they could bring in a temporary or have a rotation available for someone else.
I honestly thought if I had the sick leave available, I would be covered. It makes me wonder if I really should be so concerned with saving my sick leave for a catastrophic emergency. Would I still be able to use it?
Re: Removal for absences
NAVICP
Thu Dec 7, 2006 8:44 AM
Disturbing
fed agency
Thu Dec 7, 2006 8:31 AM
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As an ER Specialist, these are the kinds of cases that break your heart. An employee who is so ill that they simply can not work. The federal government allows for an employee's job to be protected through the Family and Medical Leave Act (12 weeks a year), but beyond that the employee agency has the discretion to determine (their burden to proove) that in fact the continuing absences beyond the 12 weeks provided by FMLA is an undue burden. Having the hire a temp or a contractor would only hasten the agency's ability to proove such a burden. Further, when the employee is unable to predict when they will be able to resume work, is really when the agency can say that they need to move the employee off the roles, because if they can't predict the employee's return than how does one manage the work? Keep in mind that an employee in this situation would likely be eligible for disability retirement and can in fact apply 12 months following a termination (or resignation).
Re: Disturbing
DOD
Thu Dec 7, 2006 12:40 PM
Re: Disturbing
DOT
Thu Dec 7, 2006 2:23 PM
Re: Disturbing
AF
Thu Dec 7, 2006 3:00 PM
It's good that she can file for disability but what is she supposed to do for money and benefits in the meantime and for the long haul, especially if she is to sick to fight for herself. This situation seems to be a good reason to add short and long term disability insurance as an option into our Federal benefits and improve FMLA as whole.
Re: Disturbing
DOD
Thu Dec 7, 2006 5:23 PM
My point isn't about getting sick, but rather the agency’s right to have a job done. We are hired to complete some kind of task that is required by the employer. If someone is going to be gone 60% of the time in a year, does not the employer have an obligation to the tax payer to make sure its mission gets done? Is it the federal government’s obligation or mission to provide welfare by keeping your job open indefinitely, when there is no reasonable expectation that you will be able to return to work?
If you were working for Boeing, what would be your job expectations if you were gone 60% of the time? Does Boeing have an obligation to keep your job open?
Leave Case
DFAS
Thu Dec 7, 2006 8:41 AM
Post Reply
There is a mistake in Susan's article. Page 3 of 5 of the decision states that "there is no question that [she] LACKED the available leave..." (my emphasis) Which puts a whole different slant on the case--I believe they have always been able to remove you for excessive LWOP.
Removal of employee
ICE
Thu Dec 7, 2006 8:45 AM
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I find it deeply troubling that a decision of this magnitude was upheld by an AJ. How do we address the issue of leave abuse by FERS employees with even a hint of seriousness after this? Employees are told to use their sick leave for health-related reasons and now they can be terminated for this? What is the incentive for employees to build up a leave base for health emergencies when their very job security may be jeopardized for taking such leave? This sets a dangerous precedent and reveals the agency to be the impersonal bureaucracy that many federal employees believe the government to be..............
Re: Removal of employee
DOE
Thu Dec 7, 2006 2:00 PM
Bad dose of reality
DoD
Thu Dec 7, 2006 8:47 AM
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In my 34 years as an HR specialist, I've seen this happen a couple of times but never felt really comfortable with it. Temporaries cost money, so paying for the permanent employee's sick leave and the cost of the temp can be considered an undue burden on the agency. If the employee's doctor can't give a fairly definite date when the employee can return to full duty status, management may consider it unreasonable to wait. If the employee is permanently disabled, he or she can apply for disability retirement and use that accrued sick leave if the application is approved. Back in the days when I was a supervisor, I would not have cut one of my people loose like this unless there was no hope of recovery.
Re: Bad dose of reality
DoD
Thu Dec 7, 2006 1:57 PM
Re: Bad dose of reality
Army
Thu Dec 7, 2006 3:20 PM
In other words, the agencies could hire a temp and pay for the temp's salary. The the burden of the sick employee's salary would be taken care of through the FEHB desginated disability insurance that they signed up for and paid into (until when or if they were able to return to work). Someone should research the feasibility of doing this especially since they are talking about trying to send civilians to IRAQ. What would happen if a civilian got hurt while in Iraq or a similar situation that caused a long medical absense? Worker's Comp or the ICEBERG mentioned above?
No wonder the gov is having a hard time recruiting. If we wanted to get treated like crap, we would stay in the private sector.
Re: Bad dose of reality
ssa
Thu Dec 7, 2006 10:30 PM