Search:

Custom Search

Readers' Comments

Total Comments: 75
Page 1 of 7

« Previous | Next »

Court Upholds Removal for Absences Even When Excused for Health Reasons

disturbing

Assistant
USDA
Thu Dec 7, 2006 6:21 AM

Post Reply

This is the most disturbing thing I have read in a long time.

Non-disc. Removal of AF employee

Contract Specialist
NAVAIR
Thu Dec 7, 2006 7:08 AM

Post Reply

Now this is an interesting article. I did not know this could happen. Keep up the good reporting work.

Removal for absences

Inspector
US NRC
Thu Dec 7, 2006 7:53 AM

Post Reply

I, too, did not realize this could happen. I understand if the agency needs someone for the position, but they could bring in a temporary or have a rotation available for someone else.

I honestly thought if I had the sick leave available, I would be covered. It makes me wonder if I really should be so concerned with saving my sick leave for a catastrophic emergency. Would I still be able to use it?

Re: Removal for absences

Allowance Specialists
NAVICP
Thu Dec 7, 2006 8:44 AM
What will they think of next. Has our government came down that low. I'm sure if we could, sickness would not come to any of us. Americans, what are they thinking when you dismiss someone over something we have NO control over.

Disturbing

ER specialist
fed agency
Thu Dec 7, 2006 8:31 AM

Post Reply

As an ER Specialist, these are the kinds of cases that break your heart. An employee who is so ill that they simply can not work. The federal government allows for an employee's job to be protected through the Family and Medical Leave Act (12 weeks a year), but beyond that the employee agency has the discretion to determine (their burden to proove) that in fact the continuing absences beyond the 12 weeks provided by FMLA is an undue burden. Having the hire a temp or a contractor would only hasten the agency's ability to proove such a burden. Further, when the employee is unable to predict when they will be able to resume work, is really when the agency can say that they need to move the employee off the roles, because if they can't predict the employee's return than how does one manage the work? Keep in mind that an employee in this situation would likely be eligible for disability retirement and can in fact apply 12 months following a termination (or resignation).

Re: Disturbing

LERS
DOD
Thu Dec 7, 2006 12:40 PM
Only in the Federal Government do you employees who feel they have a right to be gone for extended periods of time. You don't see this kind of situation in the private sector.

Re: Disturbing

General Engineer
DOT
Thu Dec 7, 2006 2:23 PM
LERS from the DoD...I hope you never get sick.

Re: Disturbing

Employee
AF
Thu Dec 7, 2006 3:00 PM
Talk about kicking someone while they are down. I can't believe they would even set a precedent like that. What happens if someone gets long term cancer or wants to have children and run into complications. I guess the will put them on an iceberg and push them out to sea, next.

It's good that she can file for disability but what is she supposed to do for money and benefits in the meantime and for the long haul, especially if she is to sick to fight for herself. This situation seems to be a good reason to add short and long term disability insurance as an option into our Federal benefits and improve FMLA as whole.

Re: Disturbing

LERS
DOD
Thu Dec 7, 2006 5:23 PM
DoT Engineer,

My point isn't about getting sick, but rather the agency’s right to have a job done. We are hired to complete some kind of task that is required by the employer. If someone is going to be gone 60% of the time in a year, does not the employer have an obligation to the tax payer to make sure its mission gets done? Is it the federal government’s obligation or mission to provide welfare by keeping your job open indefinitely, when there is no reasonable expectation that you will be able to return to work?

If you were working for Boeing, what would be your job expectations if you were gone 60% of the time? Does Boeing have an obligation to keep your job open?

Leave Case

Reformed Conservative
DFAS
Thu Dec 7, 2006 8:41 AM

Post Reply

There is a mistake in Susan's article. Page 3 of 5 of the decision states that "there is no question that [she] LACKED the available leave..." (my emphasis) Which puts a whole different slant on the case--I believe they have always been able to remove you for excessive LWOP.

Removal of employee

Supervisor
ICE
Thu Dec 7, 2006 8:45 AM

Post Reply

I find it deeply troubling that a decision of this magnitude was upheld by an AJ. How do we address the issue of leave abuse by FERS employees with even a hint of seriousness after this? Employees are told to use their sick leave for health-related reasons and now they can be terminated for this? What is the incentive for employees to build up a leave base for health emergencies when their very job security may be jeopardized for taking such leave? This sets a dangerous precedent and reveals the agency to be the impersonal bureaucracy that many federal employees believe the government to be..............

Re: Removal of employee

Management Analyst
DOE
Thu Dec 7, 2006 2:00 PM
Admittedly, I have not read the entire decision yet, but could the Agency not have accommodated this employee by allowing telecommuting? In this age of technology it is possible to conduct nearly all work of an administrative nature remotely.

Bad dose of reality

HR Specialist
DoD
Thu Dec 7, 2006 8:47 AM

Post Reply

In my 34 years as an HR specialist, I've seen this happen a couple of times but never felt really comfortable with it. Temporaries cost money, so paying for the permanent employee's sick leave and the cost of the temp can be considered an undue burden on the agency. If the employee's doctor can't give a fairly definite date when the employee can return to full duty status, management may consider it unreasonable to wait. If the employee is permanently disabled, he or she can apply for disability retirement and use that accrued sick leave if the application is approved. Back in the days when I was a supervisor, I would not have cut one of my people loose like this unless there was no hope of recovery.

Re: Bad dose of reality

HR manager, retd
DoD
Thu Dec 7, 2006 1:57 PM
Buddy, I rashly came to the same conclusion, and I've got only 28 years in HR. However, if what rang our respective bells was sloppy writing, and in fact the employee LACKED sufficient sick leave, that's a whole 'nother case, I imagine you'll agree.

Re: Bad dose of reality

Civ
Army
Thu Dec 7, 2006 3:20 PM
It would seem to me if the "powers that be" created/included some kind of disability insureance into our FEHB, then that could cover an employee's salary and costs of living while maintaing their benefits. This would free up the agencies to hire a temp without having to pay two salaries.

In other words, the agencies could hire a temp and pay for the temp's salary. The the burden of the sick employee's salary would be taken care of through the FEHB desginated disability insurance that they signed up for and paid into (until when or if they were able to return to work). Someone should research the feasibility of doing this especially since they are talking about trying to send civilians to IRAQ. What would happen if a civilian got hurt while in Iraq or a similar situation that caused a long medical absense? Worker's Comp or the ICEBERG mentioned above?

No wonder the gov is having a hard time recruiting. If we wanted to get treated like crap, we would stay in the private sector.

Re: Bad dose of reality

social Insurance specialist
ssa
Thu Dec 7, 2006 10:30 PM
in my opinion, if an agency can keep a spot open for people who go off and play military for a year, then they should be able to accomodate people who are sick often, any way you look at it we are working short handed. by the way I am x military.
Total Comments: 75
Page 1 of 7

« Previous | Next »

Add a Comment about this Article

** All fields are required.
Note: Your comments will not show up right away. FedSmith.com selects the most insightful comments from our readers for posting. If selected, your comments will show up in the comments section after they have been reviewed and approved. See our terms of use for more information.