Re: Uh oh

Supervisors/Managers must be required to follow the regulation, i.e., DPR, etc., and it's directions rather than the ADA. Some of your advise/comments are very misleading. Supervisors do, in fact, harass and mis-use their "powers" as a manager.

Re: Your Attachments

Requesting sick leave in advance and requesting advanced sick leave are two separate issues. First, I have a dr's appt next week and am asking for 2 hrs SL on Wed. Second, I do not have enough sick leave to cover my absence for upcoming surgery, and I am requesting 240 hrs advanced sick leave. Get it?

I'll draft letters for supervisors that state the employee must provide diagnosis, prognosis, etc., but in the end, the employee must provide enough information for the supervisor to make a decision to approve the leave, accommodate, etc. If the submitted documentation does not identify the diagnosis, but management has enough info to make the appropriate decision, then okay.

Re: Your Attachments

You are under the wrong impression...do your homework LR. Diagnosis and prognosis are absolutely appropriate to ask for. Second their is no contradiction, "advance sick leave" refers to the supervisor allowing the employee to go into debt on sick leave. Requesting leave in advance means scheduling it.

Re: Your Attachments

Reread IRS GC's comment and then reread my response to it, ER. You and I said the same thing. Do your homework. Thank you.

Re: Your Attachments

As an LR/ER Specialist in the IRS, I can tell you that we do advise management to ask for a diagnosis and prognosis for extended absences, absenteeism, etc. I find it troublesome that, in some of the responses to the article, employees question whether management has a "right" to contact a doctor or request medical documentation. If one wants to avail oneself of a perceived right to sick leave for more than three days, one should expect to provide management with the documentation needed to justify the request and authorize management to discuss the situation with his or her physician if there are any questions. The presumption that managers are out to get an employee by asking for such documentation or permission is wrong. Extended or frequest absences affect productivity and, on occasion, group morale, and first-line managers who sign time sheets must be able to support why they have approved extended leave ot absences.

Re: Your Attachments

The sample memo speaks of requesting sick leave in advance. How is the employee supposed to know in advance that he's going to be sick?

Re: Your Attachments

one doesn't know that they will be sick; however, sick leave for doctor's appointments (routine) are scheduled in advance and therefore the leave should be put in advance. Also - my comment re: doing the homework was targeted to IRS - GC; not LR- Navy. LR Navy's comments which were right on correct, was simply posted prior to mine.

Re: Your Attachments

ER, I retract my statement. I apologize and thank you.

Re: Your Attachments

I agree that managers should ask for a doctors excuse for either extended or excessive sick leave. I volunteered it to my former bosses who told me it was unnecessary when I had surgery. The only exception was when I was incapacitated by a car accident and was unable to provide an advanced sick leave request. I see a lot of abuse where I am and I think it is unfair to the rest of the workers to see it continue unabated.

Re: Medical Documentation

You're right about the 110%. I have a chronic condition and will be ill to some degree for the rest of my life. I have learned to get it done NOW, get it done completely, and document. I end up, even with more frequent leave usage, with the most difficult projects and am still aways in the top 1 or 2 when the metrics are examined. I am not bragging. I was forced to this level because I knew it wasn't fair for others to have to do my work while I was ill and this was the only way to preserve the job I so desperately needed.

Most supervisors may have asked, then when they realized I was very productive, didn't worry about it. I have found great variation, though. Some want to get rid of anyone who doesn't look perfect or live exactly by their expectations in every detail. Others look at the whole picture.

Re: Medical Documentation

HR spec from DOT- you recommend providing extra documentation, documentation when not requested and to act as though one's privacy is being invaded- from a practical aspect you are right, but if a sup is asking for more than they need then they are invading your privacy. Are we in America?

In such a case, this, then, is really about your supervisors ability to demean you by abusing his/her authority.

These articles are informative, but would be much better if written with a real word perspective and cite references.

Re: Correction, please re: the MSPB case cited

I went back to read the article you referenced. The article says "A recent federal appeals court decision underscores the fact that it is possible to carry out a non-disciplinary removal of a federal employee for “non-availability” where her absences were excessive and ongoing, albeit excused for medical reasons beyond her control."

In other words, while it does not seem to make a whit of difference insofar as the point being made, for the sake of accuracy, the article just says that the absences were approved, excessive and ongoing but beyond the employee's control.

Re: Correction, please re: the MSPB case cited

Actually, the USDA manager, like Bob Gilson, read the article, not the case itself. The case (a very short 5-pager) states on pg. 3 that:
"The record as a whole demonstrates that Ms. Zellars had been absent from work for a significant amount of time over a two-year period, and there is no dispute that she lacked the avilable leave to cover absences, musch less anticipated future absences had she not been removed. Several memoranda and letters from the Air Force warned that her continued tardiness and absences could result in removal unless she became available for duty on a regular, full time basis."

My reason in citing the actual case is to show that the decision is not as shocking as some thought. Many readers of the article assumed she had ample sick leave, all approved. That was not the case.