Re: FERS Sick Leave Usage

You and several other people say that if sick leaves are added to the retirement calculation, it would "solve" the problem. But considering that a major portion of FERS retirement involves Social Security, how would sick leave fit into this "calculation"? I don't think that it is going to be much of an incentive to save sick leaves if it applies only to the Civil Service annuity portion of your retirement. If it added to the SS portion, then the private sector may cry that they should have appropriate compensation to their SS benefits. The "idiots" that decided that sick leaves will not be added to the retirement calculation may just be trying to avoid opening a can of worms.
Sick leave is free disability insurance, especially after saving over several years. And like any insurance you buy, you hope you never need it. Maybe they consider eliminating sick leaves for everybody and let them buy disability insurance.

Re: FERS Sick Leave Usage

I've been with my agency for over 20 years. I don't abuse sick leave and don't use it unless it's necessary. Many staff, new and old, will "bang in" as we call it, once they have eight hours on the books. This past year we went through an augmentation where staff had to cover posts vacated by those who "banged in." Much animosity is created by such methods of coverage because staff who provide coverage are often unable to get their work done. Granted, there are many staff who don't abuse sick leave, but the majority of staff using their sick leave today do so just to get the day off. They don't care who it affects.

I plan to retire in four years and will likely lose about 2,100 hours of sick leave, but I can retire knowing I maintained a high degree of integrity and without adversely affecting other staff by abusing sick leave. I believe I'm taking the right approach regarding sick leave, but not everyone thinks like I do. I hope things change before I retire, but I doubt it.

Re: Abuse of Sick Leave

Hate to break the bad news...but any responsible and 1/2 capable Employee Relations Specialist will stop you. If you can't produce administratively acceptable evidence of needing sick leave, you won't get it, your absences with be charged to AWOL and you'll be removed. A pretty silly way to end a career; it's also the easiest way to get fired. try it and see what happens. Oh - and just so you know, notes from your doctor that say, "John can't work today" aren't acceptable.

Re: Abuse of Sick Leave

I have a question about this exchange. Public Health Analyst says he'll play hooky whenever he wants; ER Specialist replies "Oh no you won't" and adds that a doctor's statement is not acceptable. This made me curious. What IS acceptable? (For legitimate sick leave, I mean, not for playing hooky or "mental health" days.)

Re: Abuse of Sick Leave

Abuse of sick leave will ultimately end your career with the government. I have worked for the gov for 8 years and and besides my child I have used 1 day of sick leave to see a doctor. As a supervisor, employees that are trying to use sick leave for pesonnel days will be sent down the road. With the amount of vacation that people receive, ther is no way a person could use all there sick leave and not get noticed by a supervisor, unless the supervisor approves this abuse. You both will be looking for a new job

Re: Abuse of Sick Leave

By the posting, I think the person has been getting away with it. As a Union Official, I counsel employees all the time on sick leave usage. I have found that it is the ones who develop a pattern that get caught. Plus, with an aging workforce, more leave is used. It is easier to justify its usage when you are 50 versus when you are 25.

Re: Abuse of Sick Leave

A doctor's statement that is conclusory, meaning a basic statement, "john can't work" isn't acceptable because it doesn't provide any information which would support the conclusion. "John is unable to work due to a contagious illness" is acceptable for the most part...but if that is submitted on a regular basis, then more information, including relevant medical records would be needed. Bottom line is don't play hookey - it isn't tolerated.

Re: Abuse of Sick Leave

I disagree with Forestry. I know a couple of long-time employees who were quite healthy until they got cancer, and then ended up using all their sick leave. (And the agency was very supportive of them, by the way.) This is a completely different problem than that of an employee burning his sick leave because he's getting ready to retire.

I'd like to see sick and annual leave done away with altogether. Under the Reformed Conservative system, an employee would get X number of hours of leave per year. Any absences beyond that would be unpaid unless the employee brought in sufficient medical documentation, documentation of family emergency, documentation of being kidnapped, whatever. I'd also like to see use-or-lose done away with, so you don't have offices that turn into ghost towns every December. If the employee wants to save up his leave forever and cash it out when he retires, let him.

Re: Abuse of Sick Leave

Public Health Analyst, when you say you use sick leave anyway you want, do you lie and say you’re sick when you use it for something other than non-health related reasons? If you do then you’re dishonest.

If your supervisor allows you to use sick leave for non-health related reasons then you are taking advantage of a system by using it for something you know it’s not intended for and that makes you selfish.

Are you dishonest or are you selfish?

Re: Abuse of Sick Leave

It is apparent that the government is once again getting fleeced. Here's a guy writing guidelines that management and supervisors should follow to cut sick leave abuse. Simple solution: treat your employees good and make coming to work enjoyable and interesting!! As a retired military officer, as well, it is all about morale and common sense. Face it! Generation X employees could give a rat's ass about these regulations. For added attraction, I have been told by three physician friends that if I need a note for anything, stop in! They said if the agency doubts them, they'll be more than happy to be witnesses at a civil hearing. They even recommend not to go through the union/management route. it wastes time. Federal District Courts are better if you given discipline for using sick leave. I will not, and I repeat, will not lose hundreds of hours S/L. I will burn it up! No incentive, no work. Time is money----in the reverse. I'm still professional but my patience is gone in 4 yrs

Re: Sick Leave and FERS

What most of the people posting on this subject don't seem to understand is that Sick Leave is an entitlement. Unlike Annual leave you do not own nor earn your sick leave. It is given to you and in reality belongs to the USG that is why they can take it if you don't use it. Under CSRS the retirement credit was used as an incentive for people to come to work and save their sick leave. The regulations under CSRS were changed to allow you to use your sick leave toward retirement only if you saved 2,000 hours of sick leave. Most CSRS employees found it very difficult to save that much sick leave. You are talking about 20 years without using sick leave to gain one year towards retirement. Employees falling short of the 2,000 hours could not use the sick leave towards retirement. So in reality the CSRS employees wanting to take retirement credit for unused sick leave have to maintain a balance of 2,000 hours. Is anyone reading this know of regulations disputing what I am saying.

Re: Sick Leave and FERS

The Admin Assistant, DOS, asks "Is anyone reading this know of regulations disputing what I am saying," concerning Regulations that would only permit credit for CSRS Retirement if the employee has at least 2000 hours of sick leave. The AA is asking us to prove a negative. There are no Regulations that dispute what you are saying, but there are no Regulations which support your claim of a 2,000 hour minimum. I don't know where you heard that but you are WRONG!!

Re: Sick Leave and FERS

If you check the following website: http://www.opm.gov/forms/pdfimage/RI83-8.pdf , it gives an example that shows one CSRSer having four months and 24 days of sick leaves added to his annuity calculation. So Mr. Admin Assistence is not correct in stating that you need a minimum of 2000 hours to receive sick leave credit. You do need, however, a minimum of 30 days or 174 hours of sick leave to receive the first month. And you need X multiples of 30 days to receive X number of months added to yours credit. And one more thing, you can add sick leave to an odd number of actual working days to get another month of credit. If, for example, you have 30 years and 17 days of actual working time, you can use 13 days of sick leaves to get 30 years and one month included in your annuity calculation.

Re: willful violation

My reponse to the HR person is that they should be wary of the certain outsourcing of there position in the near future. Personnel is easily contracted out and unfortunately, this won't be the end of such measures. Supervisors who resort to threats and such will be the beneficiaries of their own initiatives, they will just encourage poor choices by their employees in response. Long time employees are respectful and responsible, but when push comes to shove many unwanted outcomes show up. A person with around three years until retirement eligibility who is FERS and has over 1,000 hours of Sick Leave would be unable to use it, it would take way too long. I encourage our Congress to address this unfair practice, but I have little belief that they will undertake any action.

Re: It's not a FERS issue

Wow, you sound you would fit right in with the private sector. They routinely make employees feel guilty for using sick leave (and often even guilty for using personal leave). Trust me, the hardline attitude doesn't lead to a good workplace. I much prefer working for the federal government and using all of the leave that I have earned. If I wanted to deal with people getting all over me for every day I miss I'd go back to private industry (or back to middle school for that matter).

Re: It's not a FERS issue

Census's comments are why the general public think federal employees are lazy. You're not entitled to use sick leave if you're not sick. I don't care if you've got 1 hour or 2000 hours. What do you do, call your supervisor and lie about being sick so you can use "your" sick leave? I'd much rather be healthy and have some hours that I didn't need to use than lie.

Re: Sick Leave

And who's fault will that be???

Re: Easy Fix

I believe the incentive is, and should be, save it for when you really need it. If you never use it, good for you.

Re: Easy Fix

I agree with you Navy Civilian. Only use it when you need it, and if you don't need it, consider yourself blessed. However , we have those (like the CDC Public Health Analyst above) who are more than willing to take advantage of what is "offered". Therefore, incentives should be "offered" to reward those who do not take advantage of the system.

How many of you have actually disussed this issue with younger FERS (35 and under) employees? My discussions have revelaed that most of them plan on using it, not losing it. We need incentives, or I believe the problem wil only get worse (this can be confiremd by looking at the trendlines in the BOP study linked in the article)

Re: Easy Fix

My gut response to all of the above: Whatever happened to integrity and responsibility, ethics and honesty? What kind of a role model are you for the next generation?

Then my next response is about fiscal responsibility: Do you not have a family that needs your paycheck? What happens if you get into a car accident or worse, cancer? Will you have to run to the leave donor program and ask for compassion from others that are not as selfish as you have been? As another respondent said above, you should all be thinking about sick leave as insurance. Do you have health insurance? Try considering your sick leave as paycheck insurance. You'll never have enough sick leave if the worst happens to you.