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Policy, Politics, Religion and Death: Could There Be Any Controversy Here?

policy change

Federal employee
DOD
Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:57 AM

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I've been to almost a dozen veteran/military funerals in my life, including my father's, and never once has anything been recited while the flag was being folded.
All the services were in Rhode Island. Perhaps different states have different procedures for burials of veterans.

Re: policy change

Analyst
DOD
Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:11 AM
I too have been to several veteran/military funerals including my father, my brother, and several uncles. These were in California and there was never anything been recited while the flag was being folded. The last veteran funeral was in 2001.

Such Idiocy

Nameless, Faceless Nobody
DOD
Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:27 AM

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If they had simply made the memo available, let the discussion happen, clarify that the script could be requested, and not let it sound like religion wasn't allowed along with the flag ceremony; perhaps there would have been a spirited discussion but not the howling that this started.

VA Idiot Managers

Contract Specialist
DCMA
Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:27 AM

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What angers me more than the "secret policy", is the fact that they tried to keep it secret. Whoever made this policy change should be out on the sidewalk immediately. The VA has had enough stupid managerial decisions. They are supposed to help the veterans, but instead, they have botched their health care and now they are trying to intrude upon their burials. Amazing.

Re: VA Idiot Managers

Government Employee
VA
Thu Nov 1, 2007 9:54 AM
This wasn't a SECRET people, from what was stated it was an internal document reminding the employee that their role is to stick to the traditional honors and leave the prayers etc. to the veterans groups or families. Every company or organization has them. The term "internal" was created for a reason. There are some aspects of an operation that are for employees eyes only such as procedures, reminders or current events. I suppose you would demand to see a change in a uniform policy or key swipe card policy, "no" why would you, it is an internal procedure that doesn't affect you the customer just as this internal procedure was. We as a country need to quit caving in to the cry babies who don't get there way, just because you are a US citizen doesn't give you the RIGHT to know everything that doesn't even affect you especially if the service provided to you is the same. This document didn't change anything but re-confirm what the government officially is to provide for honors.

Re: VA Idiot Managers

manager
dod
Thu Nov 1, 2007 11:26 AM
Your post seems to reflect the problem in the way this was handled. At best, the VA did a poor job of communicating its policy--whether it was a new policy or just an old policy that had not been enforced or a new policy that the agency did not want to admit it was implementing.

The agency came across as not being responsive to the people it is supposed to serve. And, while it was initially an internal document, the spokesman did the agency a disservice by hiding behind that phrase and not "clarifying" what the agency really meant to do--whatever that may have been.

By referring to the veterans and families as "crybabies" for not understanding what was apparently an incomprehensible policy and blaming the people you are supposed to be serving for the foul-up of the agency indicates why this case was handled poorly by the VA staff and why it will probably happen again in some other situation.

policy change

Federal Employee
USAF
Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:36 AM

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I have seen this recitation done at a promotion ceremony for an O-6 in Utah. It was part of the promotee's personal beliefs, and there was no controversy whatsoever from anyone in the audience. This seems to be an issue that is best left to the individuals who want this recitation included in whatever kind of ceremony, but most especially a military funeral. If someone doesn't like it, they are free to leave. We are ALL free to express our religious beliefs, and my freedom of religious expression should not be limited because you do not like it, AND vice versa.

It breaks my heart.

Government Employee
VA
Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:37 AM

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I tried to avoid getting involved in this commentary but have done some research. I'm really ashamed of those of you jumping in on a band wagon and accusing before researching. The official military honors always has been the folding and presenting of the flag, TAPS and possibly the gun salute. NEVER did VA ever mention that they were taking away the rights or religious freedoms of our veterans but rather ensured that the military and government personnel stuck to the tradition and lawful practice of military honors. It is only those individuals that cannot recite this prayer or whatever you want to call it. They never mentioned that a veterans group couldn't say it. I am a religious woman and pray throughout each day and am grateful to the veteran for allowing me this freedom. But I do applaud the VA for sticking to "tradition" and not altering the solemn ceremony but allowing the family to make the decision if they would like this ADDITION to be performed.

FLAG FOLDING CEREMONY

FEDERAL EMPLOYEE 2
HHS
Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:37 AM

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I'm in NY. And it's the same here. In fact, I was shocked to learn there is something formal that can be said when the flag is folded. ( And we were never informed that it must be requested. ) The flag wasn't even folded in front of us; it was just given to us already folded. So I guess it's commom to cut corners in our national cemeteries.

Flag Folding

Management/Program Analyst
National Cemetery Administration
Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:46 AM

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There are certainly many misinformed people out there including some of those VA employees who have responded to earlier postings. For the record: The National Cemetery Administration (NCA) IS a component of the Department of Veterans Administration along with Veterans Heath Adminsitration (VHA) and Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA). At my facility, every veteran is afforded full burial honors which includes folding and presentation of the American Flag consistent with time honored trandition AND the wishes of the next of kin. The 5' X 9 1/2' burial flag that drapes the caskets of veterans are issued by the Department of Veterans Affairs. In order to obtain the traditional triangular shape of a properly folded burial flag, 13 different folds are made. Be assured, we are here to serve veterans and their families and will continue to do all that is reasonably and legally possible to meet their needs which COULD include reading of their flag folding recitation.

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