Re: Simple

Wonder if they think about the REAL people that worked and contributed to the system, before they started giving to the people that did not contribute a dime...?????? Dah....this administration was something else.

Re: Simple

It is disingenuous to state or imply that "this administration" had anything to do with the GPO or WEP. They have been in effect for a number of years--this is not a recent issue by any means.

Re: Simple

"This administration"? Congress is responsible for GPO/WPO, and it was introduced during the Carter administration. Better get that finger wagging and pointing in the right direction.

Re: Simple

What is the active duty and retired employees position on this? I am also retired military. We have fought for concurrent receipt of military retired pay and Veterans Affairs disability for about 100 years. We have partially won. Good luck.

Re: GPO and WEP

Forty quarters is ten years. A full social security retirement with full benefits is thirty years. Many have paid into social security for more than thirty years.

Re: GPO and WEP

The method of benefit computation has nothing to do with this argument. Social security benefits and CSRS retirement benefits are computed independently of one another until it comes time to offset one for the other. And, even at that point, the only comp involved is the WEP offset comp and/or the two thirds offset for GPO, neither of which has anything to do with how the original Social Security benefit or CSRS benefit was computed. It is simply a matter of computing the reduction amount. CSRS Offset becomes a little more complicated.
This whole offset problem arose because some of our "enlightened" leaders thought it not fair that people who were insured under both covered and non-covered employment become 'unduly enriched' by receiving both benefits. HOGWASH. If an individual is fortunate enough to be eligible for both benefits because he/she EARNED them, then he/she should be entitled to them WITHOUT REDUCTION. That is what is fair! Continued in my next post.

Re: GPO and WEP

I assume, Lead Management Analyst, that you also think it is fair that an individuals Social Security Disability benefit be offset based on receipt of Workers Comp. This is the law nationwide with the exception of a few states that have reverse offset. HOGWASH. The fact that an individual is covered by Workers Comp Insurance should have nothing to do with the disability benefit that he/she earned. They are distinct and separate benefit amounts. This has become a give-away for attorneys who represent the beneficiaries who find themselves mired in this nonsense.
If the truth be known, WEP and GPO are nothing more than veiled attempts to rescue the Social Security trust funds which are FUNDED SOLELY ON THE BASIS OF IOU'S ISSUED BY OUR GOVT.
I dealt with this nonsense for too many years to be told that the present system is just and fair. YOU tell someone who has barely enough to get by on that the system is fair.
HOGWASH!!!

Re: GPO and WEP

To clarify the first statement of my first post: "The method of benefit computation has nothing to do with this argument", I should have added that it is not a factor until the offset is actually applied. I did try to clarify my statement later in the paragraph.

Re: GPO and WEP

Retired SSA you have lost me. I read you posts as advocating that those who have paid forty quarters (10 years) receive the same amount as those who have paid thirty years or more (120 quarters). Am I in error?

Re: GPO and WEP

Sorry if I confused you, Prof Small College. Quarters of coverage are used to determine the insured status of individuals who have applied for social security benefits, be it old age and survivors benefits or disability benefits. Establishment of insured status is necessary to determine if an individual can receive social security benefits. Typically, an individual now needs 40 qrtrs to establish fully insured status for benefit payment. There are, however, other factors that may have to be considered for disability insured status.
Congress annually establishes the minimum earnings required to earn one qrtr of coverage and those earnings increase each year. An individual may not earn more than 4 qrtrs annually. That's how we arrive at the 10 year figure.
Pls go to this link:
www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/ProgData/insured.html

Pls see my next post.

Re: GPO and WEP

Averaged earnings over an individuals lifetime are used to calculate your benefit amount. The formula used to calculate the benefit amount is too complicated and involved for us to discuss in this forum. The benefit computation process is started after insured status (eligibility) is determined.
Pls go to: www.ssa.gov/

In the Frequently asked Questions section choose 'benefts'. That will take you to a list of questions from which you can choose "How are my retirement benefits calculated". I hope I have answered your question satisfactorily and that the links I have provided will provide further assistance.
Again, I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.

Re: GPO and WEP

To Retired SSA. The method of computation has everything to do with this discussion. You'll know this more than anyone else. We use 90% of the first bendpoint. That's the welfare aspect of social security that we never speak of. It was implemented to give a higher benefit (proportionately) to lower income workers. If you allow non-covered workers to take advantage of this, you are treating them differently.

As far as WEP goes, you also know that a survivor can collect, in essence, only the A or the D. Why should we be able to collect , in essence, both!

Re: GPO and WEP

Is it the position of CSRS employees and retirees that the entire period of work under CSRS should be credited for social security benefit calculation? Even if the person only worked for ten years (40 quarters) under social security.

Re: GPO and WEP

To the Prof: I certainly hope not.

Re: GPO and WEP

To Lead Management Analyst. Yes the method of computation is an integral part of any discussion on WEP. And I said as much in my first and third posts. And you're correct when you state that I am well aware of this. We could discuss this ad infinitum and never agree except on the mechanics of benefit computation.

Bend points, AIME, PIA, computation years and all other factors considered, my position, albeit selfish, is that I and others should not be subject to different percentage reductions of the first bend point simply because the vast bulk of our earnings are non-covered. Each benefit, non-covered and covered, was earned independent of one another and I believe should be computed independent of one another.

I repeat, this may be a selfish way to look at it, but life is not an even playing field. This discussion is better left where it is. I do appreciate your comments and observations. May the remainder of your career be rewarding and fulfilling. Mine was.

Re: GPO and WEP

To Prof: No, that is not my position.

Re: get over it

Let's get simplistic re this argument, gor. Suppose I hired you to be a waiter in my restaurant and we agreed that you were to be paid $100.00 per day. You come to me upon the completion of your shift and I ask you how much in tips you received. You state you earned $25.00 in tips. I decide to pay you $75.00 because to pay you more would result in unjust enrichment. You would argue that you worked hard and EARNED both the tips and the original $100.00 we had agreed upon. And you would be correct. And that is the basis of the arguments for repeal of WEP/GPO. Both covered and non-covered benefits were EARNED by hard work and reduction is unfair. Not too difficult to understand.

Re: get over it

That waiter EARNED that money. You did NOT earn what you're complaining about. The welfare portion of a social security benefit is NOT earned by you. A spouse/survivor benefit is NOT earned by you. The original poster is correct. You are whining.

Re: get over it

I just read this post, Lead Management Analyst. Pls see my response above under "Re: GPO and WEP'.

You need to clarify on whose earnings record a spousal or survivors benefit is paid. It is correct that I did not earn the spousal/survivor benefit on my spouses record. However, if my spouse becomes entitled on my earnings record, that entitlement is based on my earnings and not hers. Just wanted to clarify that. Have a great weekend.

Re: Wiondfall

I'm sorry to hear of your disappointing experience with the Social Security Administration. I will offer, if you will allow, an explanation for what may have happened. WEP reduction is computed using the gross amount of your pension and not the net (check amount). Many times this is an area of misunderstanding by not only the beneficiary but also by social security employees.

The administration of the Social Security Act and the adjudication of policies and procedures has become a nightmare. There are literally thousands of pages addressing policies and procedures that must be referred to by the benefit and claims technicians who work on the publics social security claims. Before these procedures were loaded into computer programs it was not unusual for a 'procedure stand' to measure 3 to 4 feet in length with procedure and policies tightly packed in that space. I could offer reasons for this vast amount of paperwork but that wouldn't alleviate your problem.

Good luck.