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Considering the Filing of an EEO Complaint or Grievance? Think Before You Act

Can you afford it?

CSRS
VHA
Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:57 AM

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"When employees tell me that they are considering filing a complaint or grievance and request advice, I typically ask them if they are prepared to take on the whole agency, which I think is, in essence, what happens."

That's exactly what happens. The EEO, union, MSPB, you name are all pro-management. I've seen and been part of complaint processes and you'll have to remember your case could drag on and on in court. Agencies have lawyers but you have to pay out of pocket. Agencies will drag out cases for years upon years until they deplete your bank account and can no longer afford an attorney. I've seen people lose and some walking away with 6 figures...

Re: Can you afford it?

Retired Air Traffic Controller
FAA
Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:43 AM
It is obvious that the author is pro-management. I retired after being subjected to numerous instances of blatant disparate treatment. All management stuck together like glue. I was lucky enough to retire, altho would not have had the work environment not been so hostile. Those currently working would like to file, but are very hesitant due to the retaliation that they know others who have filed have experience. Even the EEO investigator weighed the deck by interviewing numerous management officials and only 1 controller out of 10 that I gave names of who could collaberate the ongoing disparate treatment.

Re: Can you afford it?

Un-Insubordinate
GSA-until I requested a reasonable accomodation
Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:32 PM
My EEO claim was shuffled between the Dallas Office and GSA for 6 years. In Jan. 2002 I brought my disability claim to the attention of Judge Rosenberg, requesting that he combine it with her other like/related claims. Rosenberg refused and told me I would have to file another EEO complaint. About March 02, I filed the complaint with the EEO Officer. The EEO Officer dismissed my claim claiming that it was already the subject of the complaint that Rosenberg presided. I appealed this dismissal to the OFO and it was remanded it because they found that I raised new issues not a part of the other claim. The Agency was ordered to investigate claim within 3 months. I received my copy of the March 2004, report and contacted the Dallas Ofc and requested a hearing. Judge Lewis held a hearing on Sept 5, 2007, and did not deliver his decision until May 29, 2008 and although I proved discrimmination, he ruled in favor of the Agency, However I was not surprised.

Filing an EEO

Justice will prevail
Dept. of VA
Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:06 AM

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I wholeheartedly disagree with the last statement of "voting with their feet." Employees who have a valid reason for filing an EEO, whether or not they will be perceived as a trouble-maker, should in fact, stay the course, and allow the process to take shape. There are too many occasions where the employee is seeking to converse with Managers and/or Management without being given the opportunity, until of course, the dreaded EEO is filed. Therefore, if Managers, etc., are unwilling to listen prior to the filing of the case, what assurance does the employee have that the Managers, etc., will come to the table with an open mind. Upon a successful victory, perhaps the Managers, etc., will rethink future decisions to ignore the employee. The employee should not be obligated to leave so that Managers, etc., have an easier road in not addressing the issue. Managers would effectively aid in the continuing problem.

Re: Filing an EEO

Consultant
none
Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:14 PM
I agree. In many cases (at least with my clients), upper management really does want to know if a manager is not considering candidates on anything other than qualifications. Although "voting with your feet" might be the only option available, if you approach the process with the same professionalism that you recommend for talking with your supervisor, the complaint process may be helpful.
Why give up tenure without at least giving the grievance process a chance? If you do leave, you can always tell your next employer (truthfully) that you left because you felt like your career opportunities were limited in your old job.

Re: Filing an EEO

HR Manager (Retired)
DoD
Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 PM
Agree with "Justice's" comments. If employees "vote with their feet" an agency's mismanagement practices will never be corrected. One thing I learned while serving as an arbitration program judge for my installation was that we were able to make our base a better place to work by listening to those who filed complaints or grievances.

EEO/Grievance Advice

Claims Representative
SSA
Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:22 AM

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The author gives some good advice, about informal discussions and about the danger of miscommunication. However, when recommending whom to approach for support and advice on grievance issues, he fully exhibits his management-advisor background.

Most federal employees have union representation. And those so blessed also have a grievance procedure that can proceed to resolution before an impartial arbitrator-- because their union negotiated to have that system. Their union also has experience in dealing with a wide variety of EEO and grievance issues, and in doing so from the employees' side, not from management's. If a bargaining-unit employee has a potential EEO or grievance issue, the first person to talk to is your union representative.

Re: EEO/Grievance Advice

Civilian
DoD
Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:10 AM
You need to read your negotiated agreement before you file a grievance concerning an EEO issue. Some agreements exclude EEO complaints from the grievance process. And you should also know that you cannot file both a grievance (if covered) and an EEO complaint. You have to make a choice in which forum you'll proceed.

Re: EEO/Grievance Advice

Union member
of NTEU
Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:16 AM
I disagree with your advice about going to the union rep. I've seen too many cases where the union is only interested in pursuing the complaint if it is a "slam dunk" that will improve their "credentials" as winning the Battle of the Lowly Worker vs. Mean Old Management.

Any route you take - union, eeo, etc - it will be YOU vs. The AGENCY as managers will circle the wagons around one of their own, regardless of that person's record of other complaints being filed. We never see managers demoted or let go, regardless of an easily discernible pattern of complaints (formal and informal) made against the bad manager. At most, they will attend "sensitivity training," but, since they are never wrong in the first place, the training never penetrates their Shield of Imperviousness.

Are you ready to take on the agency? You probably will be labeled a troublemaker. You may get this promotion (to get you out of the way), but it's still a ladder with only one rung.

FACTS

EEO Complaintaint
DHS
Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:48 AM

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I think in a nutshell, what is really being said, is the system is designed for the employer and not the employee and by far user friendly for either party. Maybe the EEO & MSPB needs redesigned into a singular system and all EEO activities need removed to an independent agency.

Re: FACTS

manager
DOT
Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:05 AM
I totally disagree that the system is biased towards the management. An employee is allowed to file an EEO case with absolutely no justification or facts. This would not be allowed in private industry as no company could survive with this system. The amount of expense and time devotred to affidavits, interviews and arbitration is excessive. There are definitely valid cases but there are also many frivolous cases that are filed punitively against managers and employees are never held responsible. Even cases that have no validity as EEO cases are agreed to by upper management to avoid a long and time consuming outcome.

EEO

EPS
EPA
Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:50 AM

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As an employee who has filed and won an EEO complaint against an Agency, as well as a six figure monetary award, I wanted to let you know that no one can emphasize the physical and mental drain that occurs as a direct result of the case. It also takes two years out of your life, that can never be replaced. I always ask each person who approaches me about filing an EEO action, "are you willing to give up your quality of life for the next two years,for this case and how much do you have in savings?" EEO cases are costly in your time, the Agency's time and the EEO Administrative Judge's time, and attorney fees.
Although most folks are not willing to sit down with their supervisor and discuss the problem, they are willing to step outside their organization and consult with another person. Take full advantage of the Employee Assistance Program!

Re: EEO

25 years of Superior Service
USDA
Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:12 AM
Hey, I have a case that the Judge issued and Acknowledgement and Order two years ago and nothing since, in spite of over a dozen motions. Four agency representatives during that time.

Re: EEO

HR Manager (Retired)
DoD
Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:35 PM
Great information - much better than that in the article. In the end the decision to file or not file a complaint or grievance is a very personal one and the decision impacts people differently. Discussing one's decision with someone you trust is very important. In my 36 plus years of HR experience, including time as a CPO, I found that it always seem better to "take the risk" if the employee truely felt there was a problem.

Are You Kidding ME!!!

Fed Worker & Union Guy
DOD
Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:52 AM

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This article implies that there are nearly zero cases where an EEO complaint, or grievance is necessary, or has any chance of being sucessful. The last paragraph tells the worker to vote with his feet & leave/resign. How could you publish something so anti-worker rights & protections. This is why we have laws & people who assist in their enforcement, such as unions & EEO. This reminds me of our local civilian personnelists. They tell employees that managment can do whatever they want. And, we keep on winning grievances. Will they ever learn??

Re: Are You Kidding ME!!!

Editor
DoD
Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:16 PM
I agree - I don't think employees should be "forced out" just because management is making things miserable. In the case of me and my teammates, we all went in together on the complaint. What resulted was really only a couple of mediation sessions, but it was successful in that the boss knew we weren't just going to roll over and cow-tow to his whims. We were able to air our grievances and the boss actually did change SOME behaviors. Then, a couple of years later - HE left the agency. Sometimes consulting with EEO is worthwhile. But trust is the major issue.

Vote with your feet

examiner
IRS
Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:56 AM

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Although the article makes sense, the last paragraph is incomplete.
First, before you vote with your feet, make sure you have another job that is good. The job market stinks now and has not been good for a long time. Second, talk to the union steward if you are a union member. I am aware that the union represents everyone in the bargaining unit, but certain services are given to union members and not to non union people. I do not know the break in point.

Re: Vote with your feet

Justice will prevail
Dept. of VA
Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:44 AM
Attorney's are not provided for the non-dues-paying member, however, all other services should be provided because as a Federal employee, they are entitled, whether or not they choose to pay dues. The non-paying dues member should realize though, that services being provided to them limits available resources to those who should have priority as a dues-paying member.
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