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Tough Dilemma for Employee Does Not Provide Basis for Appeal

Educated?

Worker
DoD
Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:59 AM

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He asked, in writing, for a voluntary reduction in grade so he can have a job and then claims it is involuntary later on? I thought he was educated, or does he think people are really that stupid. I wonder what institution he received his education at?

Re: Educated?

Retired
DoC
Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:46 PM
Wish the article had included 2 additional items, namely, "what was the unaccredited school that awarded his PhD?" and "as a medical professional, was he licensed by a state medical board?".

Sounds like (by implication due to lack of clarifying facts) he may have used a "mail order" diploma mill credential to gain Federal employment and was providing medical therapy without a license. This is a growing problem.

If so, then the appointing authority was guilty of not properly checking him out when he was placed on the list of potential hires, and he was guilty of fraud in using a worthless degree to gain Federal employment. If this is the case, he should not be retained even as a social worker.

I feel sorry for the veterans who were "treated" by this quack -- if the implications of the article as I've spelled them out are true.

He was lucky

Assistant Regional Counsel (Ret)
SSA/DOJ
Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:10 AM

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The employee was lucky that the agency didn't decide to charge him with lying on his application. In that case he would have been fired and not gotten the voluntary change to lower grade. Now he has a job and he may not have had one at all if he'd told the truth on his original application because he wouldn't have been qualified for the position at all and would not have been selected so could not have a voluntary change to lower grade. He wasted everyone's time by not reading the case law on voluntary changes.

Re: He was lucky

Labor and Employee Relations Manager
DoD
Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:24 PM
Actually, it's unlikely the agency could have established that he lied on his application. He most likely reported that he had a PhD from a particular institution but wasn't asked and isn't expected to report whether or not that institution or it's program are properly accredited. It's up to HR to make that call in determining that he's qualified for the position. Unfortunately, it appears HR dropped the ball.

Unqualified Workers

Supervisor
DOD
Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:55 AM

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Hey, that gives me an idea. We can use this argument on kicking out the people who are taking up space in Congress. For alot of them the only qualifications they have are they are old enough and are breathing. And why are so many of them lawyers? I always thought serving in Congress was supposed to be a civic duty and not a lifetime profession.

Another alternative

Benefits Counselor (Retired)
VA
Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:08 PM

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The employee could have explored taking some coursework at another institution to earn a qualifying degree. With transferred credits taken into account from his first degee, this might have required only a few courses.

Employee's Tough Delimma

Cubicle-Bound Overage Wage Slave
DoD
Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:42 PM

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I wonder how his performance was in comparison to those lucky enough to have earned their PhD from an "Accredited" Institution? (It might have actually been significantly better! He must have been pretty good because he oviously had several Performance Reviews during that time! (Or DID he?) It also might have been an honest mistake. Schools go on and off ther Accrediation lists. This can happen to some of the smaller and medium-sized colleges, especially the "State" universities and Colleges. Of course, that isn't a problem for the Ivy Leage and more prestigeous institutions, but just how many of those Graduates go for Government Service................. (You know that answer.)

I can't believe the VA

Ex USCIS Officer
USCIS
Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:00 PM

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Why didn't they fire him for lying on his application? Isn't that perjury?

Re: I can't believe the VA

Prof
Small College
Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:27 AM
The agency would have to prove that he intentionally falsified his application and that the falsification was material. If the job application did not specifically state the condition of employment he would probably win at the MSPB and Federal Circuit. That is one reason for the specificity of federal job announcements.

Unaccredited VA psychologist

Veteran
Veteran
Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:11 AM

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It seems pretty clear cut, not to sound heartless. I'm glad the VA does have standards involving accredidation, etc. Any argument that states that the VA "should have picked it up sooner" are meaningless. They finally did catch up to the employee and found out that he or she did not meet the standards as stipulated in the VA's requirements regarding the hiring of psychologists. So the employee had a job for three years that they were not accredited to have, and at a pay scale they were not entitled to either. Yes, someone made a mistake for not picking up the fact that he/she was not accredited right away. That doesn't change the fact that they were not accredited.

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