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Seeking Access to the TSP's Billions

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Engineering Data Manager
DOD Tinker AFB
Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:51 PM

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After reading many articles about the TSP Funds, all I can gather is that you can't trust anyone and make sure to read and understand all the fine print. "CAVEAT EMPTOR "applies to selling as well as buying.

Roll Over Other Mutual Funds Into TSP

Retired
USDA Forest Service
Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:07 PM

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As a retired Forest Service Employee, I would like to roll over my other IRA Mutual Funds into the TSP. I would much rather do that than visa-versa. Can we make sure that the Congress will not sell us out!!!

If "Pro" is the opposite of "Con", what is the opposite of "Progress"??? It's something to think about...

Seeking Access to the TSP's Billions

Civil Engineer
DOD
Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:02 AM

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Unless the TSP Board educate it's members of these attempts to take advantage of us, then Fed employees will continue to be fodder for the wolves. The Fed did such a good job on doing what's best for the Fed Employee on the last go around with the IFT limitation, we should expect them to continue their good work on protecting our interests. ( INSERT SARCASM EMOTICON HERE).

Signed,
One who is not blind to the TSP's commitment to barclays.

leave my money alone

hr
usda
Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:31 AM

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No one has any right to my money which I saved and worked hard for. Too many hands want in the pot and this will be another spoiled stew. Leave my money alone it is mine.

Throwing Sheep to Wolves, Baa-baa

Thorn in the Side
DOD
Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:51 AM

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Start writing, calling, telefaxing and emailing your senators and Representatives to put the kibosh on this, FAST. If they don't hear a protest, they'll think it's all right.

I intend to write or email every senator and Representative in the country, not just my own, if possible. We should keep track of who votes in favor of this invitation to swindle and work to defeat those peole the next time they run, anywhere, for anything.

Thrift Savings Plan

Resource Specialist
USDA - Forest Service
Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:20 PM

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What's interesting about this is back in 1986 when they were encouraging CSRS employees to switch to FERS, we (on my forest) were told that CSRS employees would never be given the opportunity to contribute to TSP. The TSP was a portion of the 3 part retirement system for FERS employees (a reduced annuity, SS, and TSP). Then, low and behold, CSRS employees were given the opportunity to contribute to TSP and since they have been doing so, the fund has grown considerably. If I had known that CSRS folks would be given the opportunity to contribute, I would have stayed under CSRS (a much bigger annuity). I also found out that my FERS supplement is subject to the SS rules for folks under 65 (spousal earnings are considered) and this is also a huge shock to my system. My FERS supplement will be subject to a huge reduction because of my spouce. I believe old CSRS employees were given a bunch of bad information years ago when I switched.

Re: Thrift Savings Plan

Thorn in the Side
DOD
Fri Aug 1, 2008 12:05 PM
Resource Specialist - You could get a divorce before retiring. You don't have to break up, just get a legal divorce. You wouldn't be the first people to do so for that reason. It sounds drastic, but if the financial situation is serious enough, it's warranted.

Ignorance Costly for TSPers

engineer
Air Force
Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:29 PM

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After the IFT fiasco earlier this year that limited everyone to two moves per month, it became obvious 99% of the TSPers are tragically ignorant of the financial, equity and commodity markets, exceeded only by their unwillingness to learn, exceeded only by the TSP management unwillingness to help them learn. I have no intention of staying in TPS. What makes TSP a great investment vehicle is the matching funds and the tax deferred growth. After that, it fails to keep up with many of the mutual fund groups like those advertising.

Observe how no one has cited the rate of return of either advertisers versus the funds of the TSP. The issue is not the fee, it is the annual return on the principle. Better returns require better fees!! You get what you pay for!! AARRggghhhh!!!

I agree with the previous sarcasm about Barclay's. Wouldn't be surprised to find fractional reserve banking and brokerage behind the green curtain.

Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers

Programmer
TSO
Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:23 PM
"it fails to keep up with many of the mutual fund groups like those advertising" This is a misleading statement, it infers that the TSPs rate of return is substandard compared with the general mutual fund community. It's a well known fact that over 3/4ths of mutual funds have worse returns over the long term than the major indexes. The TSP follows those indexes, therefore has better returns over the long term than most mutual funds.

Also, your statement regarding the TSP not willing to educate it's participants on commodities is not relevant since the TSP isn't designed to deal in commodities. It makes no sense for the TSP to educate it's participants in a market it doesn't invest in, that would be a waste of money.

Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers

engineer
Air Force
Fri Aug 1, 2008 11:21 AM
The content of your reply makes my point.

Focusing on secondary or invalid issues instead of the important aspects. Misdirection for purposes of manipulation resulting in flock following of superior elite thinking.

Many is not general... most mutual funds do not outperform the indexes, many of them do, including many of the funds in the advertisers portfolios. the whole issue of fees is a red herring compared to performance. Would you pay Warren Buffet a higher fee to manage your account?

As for the "insight" on commodities.. ARRRGgghhh!!! They don't help on what they do offer, unlike the advertisers.

Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers

Programmer
TSO
Fri Aug 1, 2008 5:34 PM
engineer, before dismissing these issues as "secondary" or "invalid", remember that you're the one who brought them up in the first place. I will say that you use pretty phrases such as "flock following" and "superior elite thinking", you're to be applauded for that.

As far as commodities go, just because it's your opinion that TSP doesn't do a good job of educating it's participants on what they do invest in doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense and is a waste of money for them to try to educate participants on what they don't invest in. It's still a waste of money. The reason is obvious.

Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers

Analyst
DoD
Sat Aug 2, 2008 12:33 PM
Returns for the last five years(including 08 ytd with the TSP funds listed):

C fund - 9.37
all mutual funds Large Value - 7.35
all mutual funds Large Blend - 7.08
all mutual funds Large Growth - 8.16

S fund - 14.8
all mutual funds Small Value - 9.59
all mutual funds Small Blend - 10.08
all mutual funds Small Growth - 8.16

I fund - 16.82
all mutual funds International small/mid - 15.96
all mutual funds International Large Value - 14.08
all mutual funds International Large Blend - 14.31
all mutual funds International Large Growth - 14.28

Sources - morningstar.com and tsp.gov

Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers

engineer
Air Force
Mon Aug 4, 2008 3:46 PM
I appreciate the lively interchange, but remain unconvinced.

One more time; many is not "most" neither is it "all".
fidelity fund data from today:

Symbol YTD %
FDFFX +4.53
HRSVX +5.4
JMCVX +3.79
FLVCX +8.75
CHTTX +4.09

Does anyone doubt there are 'many' more, but not 'most' and not 'all' that are doing better than TSP index funds?

Again, the fee is secondary to the performance of the investment. And the fee for TSP being a comparison theme in a statement by a senator is bogus.

The mutual funds that were advertising to TSP holders do a better job of educating their investors than the TSP. We are neither helped nor encouraged to actively improve our investment returns.

I wish you all good returns, but there are much better returns outside the TSP.

Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers

engineer
Air Force
Tue Aug 5, 2008 8:00 AM
OOPS! I went back re-read my initial post. I did use the phrase "many mutual fund groups" and I guess that might account for the reactions. I'll take the blame; "my bad" as my kid says.

I also went to the web site and looked at the authentic documents, ads and letters. I recomment you do the same.
http://aging.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=301453

I remain convinced that TIAA-CREF and Fidelity are both better investment situations from which to manage retirement funds than TSP. However, there are even better situations.

I am increasingly convinced that no amount of pleading, arguing, and discussing will help some people get off their couch and learn how to maximize their investment opportunities. Maybe we ought to recognize TSP as the couch potato's solution to retirement management.

Ignorance is bliss, you get what you work for.....
Total Comments: 28
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