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Employee Free Choice Act: Candidate Obama's Achilles Heel?

Babyboomers Retire?

Manager
DOT
Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:26 AM

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I clicked and that headline and got this article? I was already to take the government mess where it belongs, in congress. Now I get a pro-union article. The ultimate spin!

The least of his concerns

HR Consultant
been there/done that
Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:45 AM

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If the views expressed on this website regarding Senator Obama - that he is an african, mid-eastern, marxist, muslim (a veritable smorgasbord of internal contradictions) - reflect the views of the country as a whole, this bill is an insignificant issue. Do you think the chamber of commerce members were poised to flood the Democrats with donations before this bill?

Re: The least of his concerns

op supe
faa
Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:33 AM
HR Consultant, you mentioned a 'smorgasbord of internal contradictions' when listing Mr. O's characteristics. Where exactly were the contradictions? I must have missed them.

Re: The least of his concerns

HR Consultant
been there/done that
Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:09 AM
FAA Op Supe: African and Mid-Eastern are completely different ethnicities. Obama's father was Kenyan, which is decidely not Mid-Eastern, he is not of Arab descent. Marxism is totally anti-religion, as reflected by Marx's statement that religion is the opiate of the masses, and no Marxist would be a Muslim, or vice versa. Of course, Obama is Christian and the contributors on this site that characterize Democrats as Marxists are simply silly.

Re: The least of his concerns

fed
fed govt
Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:19 PM
RE: HR Consultant's reply to op supe....VERY WELL SAID! Checkmate!

Good Article but bad math

Supervisor
Defense Agency
Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:03 AM

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The article was interesting but you made a key assumption on the 40% decline in union membership. Your math indicates a 40% decrease in the union to non-union ratio not a membership decrease. The 40% is based on a 8% (20%-12%) decrease over 30 years divided by the 20% 1983 base. (8%/20%= 40%) What you have assumed is that the total population of working people has remained a constant number which is certainly not the case.
I would estimate that the percent decline in union membership is drastically more than 40% over 30 years caused by a change in the population and the mix of the work force. First, large numbers of manufacturing jobs, which adds significantly to the union population, has been outsourced to non-union countries. Second, the rapid growth in the high tech sector has increased the number of non-union technical jobs. Third, the explosion of illegal aliens working in the craft and service trades has replaced traditional union workers. I don’t have the real numbers that make up the ratios, but my educated guess would be a much steeper decline in Union Membership.

Re: Good Article but bad math

Fed
DoD
Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:34 AM
"...non-union technical jobs?"

Talk to the Washington (State) Alliance for Technology Workers, the CWA-affiliated union representing Microsoft workers.

They've got the same problem as temporary fed workers: they're hired at a fairly decent salary but on a temporary basis. So they receive no benefits and have no protections whatsoever, and becoming a permanent worker is nearly impossible. Microsoft gets qualified workers on the cheap til they want more permanent gigs, then they're outsourced to cheaper, foreign--but qualified--labor. And Big Business wins again.

I wish feds (and all working stiffs; no matter what your salary, that's what we are) would remember that unions are the only reason for a 40-hr workweek and benefits of any kind. It's not that there are no qualified American workers--just no CHEAP qualified American workers, who just happen to want to earn a decent wage and realize their own American dreams.

Big Union?

Overpaid Peon
DA
Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:10 AM

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I am by no means a Big Union supporter. However, my opinion is that they are a necessary Evil to counteract the abuses of Big Business.

And with the declining power of Big Union, we are currently seeing Big Business getting more and more abusive.

I'd love to see a better solution than one corrupt power (Big Union) counter-balancing another corrupt power (Big Business).

Ideas?

Employee Free Choice Act

Lead Archives Technician
NARA
Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:17 AM

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What difference does is make if Obama says he will sign this bill if passed. He used to be opposed to off-shore drilling until a couple of weeks ago.

Why All the Fuss??

Fed Worker & Union Guy
DOD
Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:19 AM

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If unions are so small & declining, in the private sector, then why all the fuss? If you read & listen to the news, there is no shortage of "commentators" which say that unions are essentailly are curse upon humanity & the blame for everything. It does not add up?? How can a group so small be so guilty...over & over?? Unions are scapegoat. How about overpaid & at times corrupt executives? How about boards of directors who are comatose good ole boys/girls? How about bogus free trade, insecure borders, & illegal workers? How about a elected leaders, who better serve the needs of China, Mexico, Japan, etc? How about countless corproate scandals & needless bankruptsies? AND, you are in a panic about unions??

dont forget where your benefits came from

it speclst
nps
Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:35 AM

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when you're ready to kill off unions just remember you wouldn't have overtime, holidays, an 8 hour work day, alternate schedules, a 40-hour work week, or any of that at all without unions fighting for your interests. The loss of unions means the loss of employee protections. Look at the history and its very clear. When unions go away management tends to run amok. The people in power make the decisions. There are far too few managers who truly believe their best assets are their employees, and certainly not the ceo's raking in the huge benefits and salaries in the private sector.

Re: dont forget where your benefits came from

LR Specialist
Dod Agency
Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:46 AM
The article doesn't mention killing off the unions as stated in your comment. The rapid demise has been the preference of the people the unions want to represent.

Rather, the point of the article is that changing the law to subject employees to having representation without an election is a provision that the big unions would like to have because they can coerce people to sign a card and everyone who does not will be subjected to harassment from the union organizers.

Unfortunately, many Democrats owe the unions their elected seats so they are willing to payback their big contributors while trying to make it sound like they are doing employees a big favor when they take away their ability to vote in a free and fair election.

Re: dont forget where your benefits came from

HR Officer
DOD
Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:33 PM
Sorry Fed Worker & Union Guy, collective bargaining in the federal sector didn't come about until the early 1960's with the Kennedy Executive Order. Most federal employee benefits had nothing to do with the federal employee unions and predate them, often by many years. For example, the 8-hour workday, the 40-hour workweek, annual leave, sick leave, and paid overtime have been around for federal employees since before the Spanish-American War (1898). Today's disciplinary and adverse actions process is virtually unchanged from when it was established in 1912. Workers' compensation for federal employees hurt on the job came about in the 1920s, as did the Civil Service Retirement System. Compensatory time off and other alternative work schedules were originally pioneered during the Great Depression and WWII (1930s and 1940s). Life and health insurance programs came about in the 1950s. Can you name any significant benefit program that federal unions can honestly claim credit?

Re: dont forget where your benefits came from

Accountant
DFAS
Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:25 PM
You could not be more missinformed. I remember when we first put the alternate work week on the tabel the union was against it and to get them to agree we had to give them 2 reserved parking spaces for their president and vice president. They cannot bargin for wages, they simply go around looking for ways to stir up trouble
Total Comments: 65
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