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Response to "Obama and NATCA: Friendly Skies or Fire from the Heavens"

Not Exactly

HR Consultant
been there/done that
Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:49 AM

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While Mr. Forrey clarifies a number of the issues raised in Mr. Gilson's original article, he also obscures certain aspects of this conflict.

Regarding the AFSCME dispute, the FLRA found that FAA had acted in accordance with the parties agreement to submit the contract to OMB for approval. When OMB rejected the contract so did FAA.

Regarding the FAA bargaining statute, while it is understandable that NATCA wants to change the language, to say it has been inappropriately applied is disingenuous. NATCA agreed in 1995 that pay disputes would be sent to Congress. Mr. Forrey is well aware of this for one of his current key union executives was in the room when the deal was struck.

Re: Not Exactly

it speclst
nps
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:45 AM
would that be the same FLRA that has no authority due to how the Bush Administration has stripped it to beyond recognition?

Re: Not Exactly

LER Specialist
DHS
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:18 PM
The only reason the FLRA has no current authority to act is that two of its Board members and the General Counsel resigned and the Senate has not yet confirmed the new nominations. The Statute allows the Authority to exercise their full powers as long as there are at least two Board members. However, they cannot operate with less than two members under the Statute. The present state of the Authority's powers are not teh fault of President Bush. If the Senate would do their job and confirm the nominations the FRLA would be back in business in no time.

Re: Not Exactly

worker
irs
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:45 AM
Perhaps, if George Bush would nominate people who would do their jobs according to the law instead of their political philosophy, then the NLRB would have a quorum.

Scabs do not strike

Former Banned Striker
Ag
Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:55 AM

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I must agree his members, scabs, would never strike.

Fractions

FAA Retired
FAA
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:23 AM

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Obviously, Mr. Gilson reversed the supervisor to employee ratio in error and Mr. Forrey could have acknowledged that rather than make an attempt at sarcasm. However, Mr. Gilson was absolutely correct in that the negotiatied change reduced the number of supervisors to employees ratio to 1 to 10. The ability of NATCA to negotiate away supervisory jobs, especially when they did not represent air traffic control supervisors, smacks of hiprocrasy given that NATCA has been very vocal about recent air traffic controller staffing reductions.

LAbor Unions

Soil Conservationist
USDA NRCS
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:47 AM

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Labor union membership in the private sector is below 11%. Federal employees have more protections against management abuse than our private counterparts. I've seen far to many examples where feds allow union membership become an excuse to do very little work. Also every union rep that i've seen cannot refrain from waving their vote Democrat Pom-Poms. The unions do more harm than good within the federal system. I don't want them around either.

Re: LAbor Unions

worker
irs
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:53 AM
You sound like a good Bush Republican radical conservative. You talk about the private sector, without talking about the lousy pay, part time jobs in abundance under Walmart conditions with little or no benefits(ever notice the cost of medical insurance).
I do not know where you get the idea that unions encourage people to goof off, but that is not true in the IRS. Perhaps, you are in management. You deserve what you get.

A circular issue

Prog Mgt
ISRA
Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:59 AM

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"Workers unite!"
Samuel Gompers (or was it Joseph Stalin?)

"There's a sucker born every minute!"
P.T. Barnum

"Me thinks there's a connection!"
Harry Johnson (Brilliant 7th grade classmate!)

NATC crying in their beer

retired
USPS
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:11 AM

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PATCO and its striking members 27 years ago were law breakers who got what they deserved. They knew that they couldn't strike and they got fired. And just like the baby that can't quit crying, we are going to be subject to that crying for another 25 years. Get over yourselves already.

Having Democrats promise to not replace striking controllers is inviting them to strike. These people should have not special consideration not offered to the ordinary citizen. We can get along nicely without ATC for a period of a strike.

Re: NATC crying in their beer

Prof
Small College
Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:31 PM
Once PATCO went on strike, and walked out the President was left with one choice--fire them.

Re: NATC crying in their beer

Government Worker
Uncle Sam
Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:13 PM
Oh please, enough with the "they broke the law and got what they deserved". The "law" wasn't enough to restrain the Reagan during the Iran-Contra affair.

"Law" is whatever the people in power decide it is, and only applies to those without the power to change it. PATCO engaged in power politics and lost, nothing more, nothing less.

Moral righteousness is no match for the man determined to seize power.

Re: NATC crying in their beer

Prof
Small College
Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:59 AM
WOW Government Worker, if your premise is supportable explain the once powerful public officials and lobbyist that are "doing time". Contrary to your position we are a nation of laws. Had PATCO merely engaged in "power politics" they would have retired as ATCs.

When the ban on rehiring them (ATCs) was lifted many came back as WG 2s and 3s or any thing else they could get. They were considerably more; let us say humble. Strike was not in their vocabulary.

Re: NATC crying in their beer

Government Worker
Uncle Sam
Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:59 PM
PATCO members didn't retire as ATC's because they engaged in power politics *and lost*. Once powerful public officials and lobbyist are "doing time" because they were not powerful enough to control the laws they were convicted under.

I agree, we are a nation of laws. It used to be the the law in the U.S. that slaves could not sue in court, and that slaves could not be taken away from their owners without due process. The law didn't change because of successful lobbying by slaves.

As a former striker myself, I'm in a special salary category that pays me more than a member of Congress. Not all of us returned to the government on bended knee.

Walks like and talk like it is a duck

Project Manager
DoD
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:24 AM

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When it comes to anti-union, Mr. Gilson is out front. He fails to realize that His bennies are a result of Unions fighting to increase the working conditions of the laborer. I guess he does not know that the "weekend, 40 hour work week are the result of "no good unions" that he is experiencing in his retirement.

Re: Walks like and talk like it is a duck

HR Spec
Federal
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:44 AM
I think the 40-hour workweek was designed in the Great Depression as a way to create more jobs since the nation had an unemployment rate of around 20-percent or so.
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