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The Stock Market Goes Up and Down: Who Knew? Will We Follow the Swedish Model?

big brother

Internal Revenue Agent
IRS
Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:13 AM

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remind me again-are we living in a democracy? This is no longer a democracy if Congress requires us to put 5% of our salary into a G-type fund that has a return less than inflation.

Re: big brother

worker
irs
Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:43 AM
I agree iwith you about where to put the money. However, we are not saving enough and when we must retire, we must have the money to fund our retirement. However, we will be selfish enough to force the government to take care of us because we did not save. Therefore the 5% of our salary if we do not have a retirement plan is reasonable. Where it is put is another story.

Socialism

Program Specialist
ACF
Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:24 AM

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So it appears this is the beginning of Socialism. This is scary folks. Instead of managing your own risk and risk tolerance, the government will manage it for you (Consider the government track record). It looks as though we may not be to far behind Venezuela!!!!!!!
Scary times ahead if this happens. If you want the standard safety etc. The G fund is already available. In most all 401k's etc the safety is available. We don't need this.

Re: Socialism

accountant, retired
DOE
Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:17 PM
social security, minimum wage, unemployment insurance were all invented in the 30's to create the modern social welfare state of which all advanced 18 developed nations prescribed to. Show me a modern state that does not subscribe to this model and ill show you mexico,ethiopia, somolia, and all the rest od the world. LIBERALISM IS NOT SOCIALISM. It is what all decveloped modern nations do. MIDDLE CLASSES ARE CREATED, THEY ARE NOT NATURAL. READ HISTORY!!!!

There's no way

IT SPEC
DOE
Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:31 AM

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There's no way this will pass.

Voters are already ticked off that social security may not be there for them after paying into the system for years. Now they essentially want to create a duo social security system after using the first one as a large slush fund.

If they tried to mess with the 401k system, there would be a revolt.

The mutual fund industry also has a strong lobby.

I do think I will sit down and write a letter to Congressman Miller and all others involved though, just because it's one of the dumbest ideas to come out of congress, and that says a lot.

Re: There's no way

HR Specialist
DoD
Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:15 AM
It looks like we will have a Democratic President, and a super-majority Democratic House and Senate. There will be nothing to restrain the policians: after all, it is the voters will have given COMPLETE power to one party.

I expect major steps like this to be taken immediately, and if we don't like it, tough. It will be too late.

And programs like this are hard to disband later: it fact, they virtually never are.

Retirement funding

worker
irs
Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:39 AM

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I remember being in the minority when I said that I prefer the fixed income G fund for my money. Most advocated a form of the C fund. Now that things have gone bad with the C type funds, I am hearing the herd stat to change towards this type of fund. That is wrong. If you are in a C type fund stay in it. Do not sell low and buy high. You will never make money like that.
The economy will recover. I am considering putting some of my thrift money into the C fund because it has dropped so much.
Any proposal to force people to invest 5% of the salary in bonds earning 3% stinks unless that is the minimum return and it is based on the market value of the interest rates. If that market value is 10%, I would expect a 10% interest rate. Also, would private industry be better at handling this money? Political pressure would be much less. I do not appreciate my thrift plan money being used to fund the government when it runs out of money.

there's no way

NEPA Coordinator
Forest Service
Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:57 AM

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I agree with all of the previously submitted comments. There is no way this would pass, but to assure ourselves that this ludicrous idea dies an early death, we all need to be writing to our congressmen and women. They must hear from us, so be diligent. Don't just complain in these comment forums. Let the people who control your future know where you expect them to stand.

Changing the American retirement system

C.E. Tech
USDA Forest Service
Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:07 AM

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I thought that Social Security (the name says it all) was instituted to take away the risk of not having a retirement plan. Agreed, people would not have a luxurious retirement but it was meant to at least keep beans on the table. Now Senator Miller wants to take another 5% income for another SS plan, which only pays 3% interest. That doesn't even keep pace with inflation! Whatever happened to people taking charge of their own lives and being responsible for their own future?

agree in part

accountant, retired
DOE
Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:19 AM

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I agree mostly with the plan except the new plan should invest in stocks and bonds to get a good rate of return like other pension plan. My calculation is that a worker earnining $35000 a year (the us average) would get a pension of $1400 a month or 48% replacement of income at 62.

By the way, the 3% return is after inflation since the plan uses TIPS

Re: agree in part

Program Specialist
ACF
Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:01 PM
Using your calculations I ran some numbers. If an 18 yr old went to work and worked until 62 and made 35,000 like you stated, this would force the worker to save $1750.00 a yr. (based on 5% of the 35,000) If the worker invested and continued to invest until age 62 the outcome would be:
6%- $1575 per month
8%-$3825 per month
10%- $8333 per month

Looking at being happy with $1400 may be o.k. for some, but the ability to do much better is possible. I would rather not give up financial control to the government. With that being said I will compromise, If the Federal govt will fix Social Security then and only then we can revisit this issue, but lets take them one at a time starting with Social Security.
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