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"Flirtatious" Behavior and a Last Chance Agreement Lead to Removal

WOW!!

Labor Relations Specialist
IRS
Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:43 AM

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Once you enter into a last chance agreement, you almost need to only speak when spoken to!!! Make sure that personal feelings don't get in the way.

Flirtatious Behavior and a Last Chance Agreement

research Engineer
DOD
Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:49 AM

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It is hard for me to believe but some folks must just want to get fired, what else explains this type of behavior?

Re: Flirtatious Behavior and a Last Chance Agreement

electronics tech
noaa
Tue Nov 4, 2008 8:05 AM
there was nothing wrong with his behavior e.g.
asking 'are you married', how else would you know if you didn't ask ?
Maybe management should be congradulated for
removing such a vicious personality

Stupid is as stupid does.

Program Analyst
OPM
Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:52 AM

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"The court was not buying, however. It pointed out that the evidence—which Melendez admitted to and agreed amounted to being "flirtatious" on his part--showed he had made comments to coworkers such as "what race are you? "are you married?; "girl, don't make those sounds so early in the morning"; "what size pants to do you wear?" (p. 4)

The funny thing here is that this type of thing used to be tolerated for years in the workforce until the 1980's. However, I don't think "are you married," is a negative connotation--people ask that all the time...but probably not like he did.

Beware of Last Chance Agreements

Union Representative
U. S. Postal Service
Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:35 AM

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It is my opinion that last chance agreements only tie the bow on removal cases and prohibit the grievant from any recourse whether the new charges against him/her are related to the originial charge or whether they are true. Most individuals will never be able to live up to the terms of the agreement. A person is better off taking their chances fighting the original charge without a last chance agreement. Last chance agreement = fired.

Re: Beware of Last Chance Agreements

IT Specialist
DOD
Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:56 AM
The problem is Managment generally wants lanquage in the Agreement that they can fire the employee for anything they want to even if it has nothing to do with the original offense. You were caught leaving the center with a government pen in your ear. That's stealing government property and your fired under the last chance agreement. The employee will sign anything to avoid the removal and Management knows it.

Re: Beware of Last Chance Agreements

op supe
faa
Sun Nov 2, 2008 4:35 PM
"The employee will sign anything to avoid the removal..." Well, that's the point of it all, isn't it? You're gonna be fired if you don't sign this agreement. How do you think this guy got to this point in his career...by being the model employee??

Yeah we can argue that maybe he didn't do anything wrong; we don't know the whole story; bad management drove him to act this way; he needs a date, blah, blah. People get themselves into these messes and management then has to very carefully negotiate the myriad governmental protective personnel roadblocks in order to properly discipline/terminate the trouble-making employee.

Does this crap happen in private industry? I really don't know. But I suspect it doesn't. I figure when THEY recognize poor performance based on a person's behavior, they cut their losses and just cut them loose.

Makes sense to me.

Re: Beware of Last Chance Agreements

IT Specialist
DOD
Sun Nov 2, 2008 7:35 PM
OP SUPE - I guess the point you are missing is Management will write these last chance agreements knowing they can fire the employee for anything they want to make an issue out of even if it is only a first offense. You were 5 minutes late to work today. Doesn't matter if you had a good reason. Management fires you for breaking the last chance agreement. I have seen it happen and I have seen Management do everything they could to get the person to break the LCA knowing they have the LCA to use to fire the employee. I have helped write at least 4 LCAs and I always try and make sure Management can't fire the employee for having the "Pen behind the ear". Last Chance Agreements should be related to the offense and any new separate offense should meet a certain threshold before it violates the LCA. That is what I have been successful doing. BTW, of the 4 LCAs I have been involved in, only two have been successful. The other two were related to alcohol and failed the LCA.

Re: Beware of Last Chance Agreements

H.R. Specialist
VA
Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:44 PM
Last Chance doesn't always equal "Fired", as you state.

I administer the drug test program at my facility, and I'm happy to see people come clean and stay clean. This actually happens more often than those who revert to using illegal drugs ... at least, not to the point where they are impaired at work. All of the success stories were on last chance agreements.

I guess it all depends on the employee's self motivation.

Re: Beware of Last Chance Agreements

op supe
faa
Tue Nov 4, 2008 2:12 PM
IT Specialist: I think you missed my point. The fact that we have to even OFFER a "last chance" agreement to an employee is a symptom of government's ineptness in dealing with problems in the workplace. Again, I'm quite sure that in private industry, this step wouldn't even be considered, much less instituted with an employee who was this ill-suited to the job. They would just cut him loose.

Though I don't agree with them, the federal unions have done a spectacular job over the years to protect the miscreants and do-nothings, and regularly go full bore in doing so. I commend them for their successful efforts in this arena. But I still believe people should be responsible for their own behavior in the workplace, and should be ready and willing to accept the consequences if they choose to misbehave.

last chance agreement

postal inspector
uspis
Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:25 AM

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I am concerned that lasking someone if they are married and/or what their race is--as being disrespectful conduct

Re: last chance agreement

IS
DCMA
Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:26 PM
Why are either of those questions relevant between two people in a work situation?

Re: last chance agreement

Program Analyst
OPM
Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:21 AM
Asking someone if they are married seems innocent enough. Race I could see being a problem.

Re: last chance agreement

IS
DCMA
Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:29 PM
If you want to know if someone is married, you can look at the ring finger of their left hand.

Re: last chance agreement

Worker
DOD
Sun Nov 2, 2008 1:41 AM
How about the ones that wear the ring on the wrong finger...because they married the wrong GD person? LOL

Re: last chance agreement

IT Specialist
DOD
Tue Nov 4, 2008 1:44 PM
When I was in my 20s, a lot of my single girlfriends would deliberately wear rings on their left finger so guys would leave them alone. Especially at work. Wearing a ring does not mean you are married any more. It can also mean you want to be left alone.

you call this disrespect?

retired letter carrier
USPS
Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:43 PM

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This is nothing compared to what I was subjected to working at the Post Office. The supervisors were in on it as well and got away with it. I found obscene pictures in my case drawer, my supervisor said,"if I said you had a beautiful body would you hold it against me." And another supervisor offered me "easy" overtime. I found out why. He took me downstairs to the basement area and when I rejected him, I was put out to carry more walking in the rain the next day. Needless to say, I took my name off the OT list. The United States Postal Service allows this behavior. Filing an EEO did you good. One supervisor is still there. I finally took early retirment and got out of there. If you don't play the game, your life is hell. District managers told our supervisor to "let the boys have their fun." No respect at all. Everybody has a horror story -- but this went on for 20+ years.

Total Comments: 17
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