Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction

The nexus is with his employment and not his career field – his actions brought discredit to his employer thus the nexus. There are "tons" of rulings which define nexus in this manner. Incidently, a BB gun in many areas is legally considered a weapon.

Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction

Ever since kids started shooting their eyes out with BB guns (think of A Christmas Story), the laws and attitude toward them really changed. I understand what you are trying to say to a degree, but it is a projectile weapon that can break the skin (despite what Chevy Chase said in Vacation). Now, had it been a Nerf gun...probably nothing would have happened to the guy.

Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction

assualt with a deadly weapon charges come about when someone brandishes a weapon and the "victim" fears for his safety. It has nothing to do with the object brandished. Intent to threaten and victims reaction is what probably caused this charge. I believe it is also a crime to throw objects from moving vehicles and that should have been dealt with also. Hysteria

Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction

I've read the responses, and I remain firm in my belief that (say) a machine gun and a BB gun are very different things--and should not be lumped under the same catagory. I understand that that's the law: I'm saying that the law is stupid.

I understand that the nexus test was found to be satisfied: the employer was embarrassed. Bring out the smelling salts. The decision is stupid.

He did wrong, and should have been punished: I'm just expressing my view that the reaction was even more absurd than his actions.

Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction

Wow! You have to be kidding.

Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction

In spite of the feelings to the contrary, the person was properly charged and processed. He had no reason to board the bus and should consider himself fortunate he is not cooling his heels in lockup rather than being on probation, for forcing himself onto a school bus in the first place, and his brandishing a weapon, BB gun, real gun, or water pistol, is, as previously indicated, in the perception of the "victim" and the fear instilled.

The former employee is also fortunate that a gang of parents is not attempting to seek him out and inflict the same actions on him that he attempted to inflict on a group of kids.

In addition, if these parents are smart, they are currently in process of sueing his backside off as well.

Sorry HR guy, no way this guy deserves sympathy.

Next time he may stick to whatever he does and leave the law enforcement to those that are in charge of that part of life.

Re: ADW on a school bus:

I don't think you read the article. The kid threw a cap from a pen--probably no more than an inch and a half long. I don't think something of this size can cause a wreck or bodily harm. It's not like he threw a backpack or anything.

Re: ADW on a school bus:

Program Analyst
OPM
Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:27 AM
You state "I don't think you read the article. The kid threw a cap from a pen--probably no more than an inch and a half long. I don't think something of this size can cause a wreck or bodily harm. It's not like he threw a backpack or anything. "

Actually, the "little" cap can cause a serious, if not fatal, accident. Tell you what, why don't you travel down the road in a car at , say 40 MPH, and let me throw a "little" cap at your face. I would bet a years pay that not only does it hurt when you get hit, I bet it would cause you to react in such a way that you may lose control of your vehicle. Sure would suck for you or the guy standing on the edge of the road.

I don't condone what Jaramillo did, but saying what the kid did isn't material is plain silly.

Re: ADW on a school bus:

"Tell you what, why don't you travel down the road in a car at , say 40 MPH, and let me throw a "little" cap at your face. I would bet a years pay that not only does it hurt when you get hit, I bet it would cause you to react in such a way that you may lose control of your vehicle. Sure would suck for you or the guy standing on the edge of the road."

Well, you are just assuming how fast the bus was going--the article did not say that. For all we know, the bus was going 5-10 miles an hour when it happened. We don't have the full story. By the way, I'll pass.

I don't condone what Jaramillo did, but saying what the kid did isn't material is plain silly.

Uh, I didn't say that...besides, we don't know if they were not punished...for all we know, they were. That wasn't the Federal court's jurisdiction.

Re: Brandishing a gun

Sounds like you're a bit of a bully yourself. According to the article, the guy never touched one of the students. You sound like one of those pain in the a$$ parents that see everything as an affront to their precious child, and want to take every body to court. Actually, he was "brandishing" a BB gun. You do know what a BB gun is don't you?

Re: Brandishing a gun

Hey, Supervisor DOI,

Sounds like you are either not a parent or you do not care for your kids.

In consideration of people that take action to "rush" into the control space of another, think 9/11, the jerk that did this is lucky he is not dead, based on a group of people fearing for their lives and the taking matters into their own hands to protect themselves from a manacial idiot forcing himself onto the bus.

They arm pilots now; more of this type behavior and they may do the same for others involved in protective transport of innocents (the stupid ink cap aside).

My guess is, though this is only a guess, the bus driver was someone this idiot thought he could bully. Had the driver been a burly with a baseball bat in hand I think the dipstick might have thought differently.

A swift hard kick to the groin would have settled him as well.

The guy was a jerk, and those defending his actions are in need of... hmmmmm... what is that... oh, yeah...

common sense!!!

Re: Brandishing a gun

To "Specialist - Agency"; Thank you for understanding the point I was trying to make. Your comments are right on.

To: "DOI SUPERVISOR"; You focused in on name calling and missed the point of the entire article and the point I was making. 1. Had it been my child who threw the cap out the window, not only would he have had to deal with the school but also with me. My children are aware of what is right and what is wrong. 2. Yes, I know what a BB gun is. My son owns three of them and so do many of the boys in the neighborhood. Recently they were horsing around and one of the neighbor’s kids shot another - the injury was severe. 3. I want to ask you if you know what a baseball bat is and what it is used for? Do you consider a baseball bat a weapon? I usually do not, but how many heads have been cracked by a baseball bat? Many.

continued below

Re: Brandishing a gun

I care enough about my kids that I taught them not to throw things out of a vehicle at someone. I taught them to show respect for their elders. I've also taught them that some people have no regard for others. And further, that some people can't resist threatning to take everybody to court over every perceived slight.

Re: Gun

Yeah, had it been me, I would have just said "I don't care."

Re: Gun

Sure sure pick on the gay guy this is discrimination

Re: Gun

What gay guy? Did I miss something? However, even if someone in this case is gay that has no bearing on what action is appropriate. The fired employee should have either let the incident go or report it to the school system - school buses have numbers on them. Pulling a gun, BB or otherwise, was not the smart move

Re: Fired Employee

Just because nothing was said about the students being punished doesn't mean it didn't happen. Don't make assumptions. And its irrelevant, really - the issue before the court was the Federal employee, not the students.