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Labor-Management Partnership - Deja Vu All Over Again

New Era

Floyd Nimbus
Imposters R Us
Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:19 AM

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I find nothing in this article that I can disagree with.

Re: New Era

NTUE Union Rep
IRS
Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:50 AM
Wake up Nimbus.. it's a new day! The days when LR could ignore their responsiblities to play by the rules are over. For the past eight years they've been operating under a directive that had only one objective... dis-empower unions within the federal work force. After eight years one thing has been proven... the union is not going away. The new directive will be cooperation and partnership. Agency executives might be amazingly surprised to find how much more efficiency this new approach will bring.

Re: New Era

Out of Work Agitator
Ford Motor Corp
Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:36 PM
The Unions really need better representation. I can barely sqeak by with this $98 and hour paycheck. I'm just glad my wife, my kids, my ex-wife and her kids all work for the union, too.

Plus the overtime helps us manage. If it weren't for that, we'd lose one or two of our properties.

Bush almost bankrupted us, but I know Obama will do the right thing and boost our incomes and keep the filthy managers from making us work.

Down with managers, up with unions!

good analysis

hr
usda
Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:44 AM

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I was delighted to find an article on this subject by David Orr. He is an amusing and insightful speaker and writer. His analysis of the LR situation is spot on. It should be an interesting several years. There is a dearth of expertise in the federal LR arena now and that will become obvious when the Obama admin. issues its inevitable executive order and the politicians work to make sure it is implemented. I doubt that many people actually care about efficiency and effectiveness but, for those who do, it will be a depressing era as the pendelum swings back and forth.

Re: good analysis

Border Patrol Agent
U.S. Border Patrol
Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:08 PM
This is always what amazes me. You speak as though your agency, hell any federal agency is running smooth now. I think the you would have a hard time saying most agencies are running as poorly as they ever have. A true partnership where you can go to your boss and voice legitimate complaints and have him work with you to solve them promotes an efficient workplace. Something that we don't have now. The problem I see, at least in my agency is that we use to go to fellow Agents who were managers and speak of things that both parties understood. Now we voice our issues to Labor "Specialists" who have no idea what we are talking about and how it impacts our workplace. Get rid of LER, save money, and become more efficient. There is your recipe for success.

Are We Ready for Partnership (or Whatever)?

LR Old Timer
Charter FLRA Employee Whos Moved On
Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:02 AM

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I agree that LR practitioners and managers need a lot more training. There are very few people left who were around during the Executive Order days and have worked with CSRA since it became effective in 1979.

Even fewer are the number of "career" LR specialists and managers. This likely is a consequence of changing the classification standards to GS-201 series. More people are moving into the field with less historical experience than ever before, rather than growing up in the field.

Also, we all have known managers who believe LR is not rocket science, and they do more damage than good, so our job is to pick up the pieces and repair the damage done.

Bottom Line: Federal representatives are not equipped to handle the challenges of negotiating agreements and preserving management rights without significant training and experience, particularly if permissive subjects are put on the table and other similar changes are made by Executive Order or legislation.

Labor-Management Partnership

HR Management Consultant
Various Federal agencies
Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:03 AM

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David, as usual, is right on point. He does state that "management and HR associations should not sit by the phone (or Blackberry) and wait for a request for input." At least with regard to Federal LR practitioners, my experience tells me that they will neither be asked to participate in the initially decision-making process nor will any ideas they put forth on their own be considered." As a participant in the last partnership exercise under President Clinton, the decision to move towards partnership was done without the involvement of the Federal LR practitioner community. Later, efforts by Federal LR practitioners to influence the Bush Administration in the hope of salvaging at least parts of the partnership program were stopped short by the Office of Personnel Management.

Government unions don't work

Manager
Government
Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:03 AM

Post Reply

Partnership will only work if both parties have a vested interest, which isn't the case when you are talking government employees. Gov't employees have no vested interest in the company. There is no fear of their business going bankrupt or going out of busuness. With Democratic leadership, there isn't even the fear of contracting their jobs. By the very nature of "the business", unions/bargaining in government is a one way street, its easy to negotiate when you have nothing vested.

Re: Government unions don't work

Prof
Small College
Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:08 PM
Manager,
Do you believe that contracting out is a good thing? Read the last GAO report, contracting out has NEVER saved the Govt money, smarten up

Re: Government unions don't work

Prof
Small College
Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:58 PM
Sorry, I did not post that response. The opposite is true; the private sector can always do it better and cheaper than government employees. It is flattering that some left wing loony would attempt to use me for mis-information. Keep up the good work.

Re: Government unions don't work

Revenue Agent
IRS
Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:37 AM
"Gov't employees have no vested interest in the company."

Right. It's just the place where I spend most of my waking hours of my life.

You are a manager? I pity those who report to you.

a little too smug I think

employee
FED GOVT
Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:08 AM

Post Reply

If Mr. Orr's meeting with Joe hadn't worked would he still be tooting his horn smugly and stating: " A good, mutually productive LR environment is one where both parties are represented by people who are:

trustworthy,
knowledgeable of the law and the local environment,
flexible,
strategic thinkers and most important,
trustworthy (did I already say that one?)."

Last, wouldn't you want your group to hear this discusssion instead of being kept in the dark?

partnership

Union Rep
DOL
Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:21 AM

Post Reply

I agree that partnership is not going to solve every issue. It takes two to partner and sometimes that is a hard thing to get. Partnership works where it still works today. In offies where the managers and union reps trust each other.

As for large offices and big screen TV, I doubt of that ever comes up for field employees of DOL. Our folks go hundreds, if not thousands, of feet underground to inspect coal mines. They climb scafolds and ladders in manufacturing plants checking for safety violations and try to avoid blood when investigating a fatality. The big office chair is not much help in waqking tomato fields or peach orchards as we protect migrant workers.

What we want are the tools, training and staff to do our jobs. Our motto is "Where america works, we are working for you". Any concerns we have about what the previous adminstration did rest on the belief they kept us from doing our jobs. That is what we will want to talk about at the partnership table.

Re: partnership

WORKER
US GOVT
Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:24 PM
Sounds like you work hard and do your job at DOL.
I guess the Diversity Manager doesn't know you.

Re: partnership

Diversity Manager
DOL
Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:32 PM
Is that to do your job based on the laws of the land or based some arbitrary and capricious standard that some bureaucrat dreamed up. Bush never prevented you from doing your job based on the law, he did object to bureaucratic nonsense dreamed up at DOL.

Re: partnership

Operations Analyst
DCMA
Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:59 AM
Is a "Diversity Manager" not a "bureaucrat"? If not, who is? Bureaucrats have to implement the laws that Congress passes, hence the "arbitrary and capricious" standards which some people object to. Are there not guidelines established in the EEO/Diversity management world that all federal officials have to live & comply with?

Re: partnership

HR Specialist
Dept of Labor
Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:32 AM
Diversity Manager is not a "bureaucrat." From his other posts, we know that he is retired military. We also know that for some reason he hates all things connected with the Civil Service. He posts on this and other Federal employee websites, under various names, using his posts as opportunities to attack Civil Servants, who he usually just refers to as "cs."

Re: partnership

WORKER
US GOVT
Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:05 PM
dm,
I am talking about climbing platforms, going down into mines, etc. According to you 80 % of "CS",which would include safety inspectors, do not do their job no matter if it is law or regulation. I guess you would think they "pencil whip" the inspections as they accept bribes.

I was in no way refering to President Bush.
Total Comments: 37
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