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Disrespectful Language and Failure to Follow Instructions Leads to Removal

VA Facility

Diversity Manager
DOL
Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:22 PM

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Great news a work out area/gym that was set aside for STAFF???? My question would be why wasn't the director of the facility removed for misappropriation of federal funds?/
Sounds like a typical VA scenario Vets come last

Re: VA Facility

Technical Information Specialist
DOD
Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:00 AM
Aren't you missing the point of the article. This employee was found on more than one occasion to be disrespectful and showed themselves not to be an employee that could be trusted to carry out instructions. I felt it was too bad that this individual had to keep taking their case to a higher level each time to keep sustaining a lie. Now wouldn't you call THAT a waste of federal funds too?

Re: VA Facility

BigWig
ICE
Wed Feb 4, 2009 11:17 AM
Oh, c'mon, many sites have staff gyms.

Many agencies have also implemented Health Improvement Plans to assist employees in becoming and remaining healthy.

Will you begrudge us every benefit?

Some folks are just being spiteful.

Re: VA Facility

Budget Analyst
Defense Agency
Wed Feb 4, 2009 4:10 PM
DOL DIM,

I don’t know much about the funds appropriated to the VA; however, a misappropriation of funds typically results from a violation of the time, purpose, and/or the amount. I am not sure how a staff only gym violates any or either of these unless the funds used to purchase or maintain the equipment were for a different purpose. As an example, a misappropriation would occur if the VA were given funds construct a building or perform research and it was used to purchase a major piece of equipment.

If a misappropriation occurs, it is a violation of the law……You won’t just be fired; you may find yourself sharing a cell with Lewis “Scooter” Libby

Re: VA Facility

Diversity Manager
DOL
Wed Feb 4, 2009 6:12 PM
The VA hospitals are there to take care of the VETS that is their only mission. If staff need a hymn it should be on a space available basis with vets first and staff second.
If Feds need a gym let them do what everyone else does buy a health club membership. There is no requirement for VA staff to be in shape, unlike the military and some law enforcement agencies. So if not a job requirement then it should be on your nickle.
If you read what was published its easy to see that the employee was trying to allow the vet to use the gym and "staff" didn't want their facility used by a vet

Re: VA Facility

Budget Analyst
Defense Agency
Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:38 AM
I was an enlisted man in the Army in the early late 70s and 80s. As I remember it we had
1.) An officer only Gym in the back of the pentagon
2.) Officer only latrines in the field and many building,
3.) Officer only lines at the commissary during lunch,
4.) Reserved spots for the Generals in front of the commissary typically used by their wives
5.) VIP rooms in Army Hospitals

This type of activity is not consistent with the mission of the DOD but no different than having a staff only time in a workout room of the gym. You point is well taken; however, your indignation is misdirected at the CS. The Manager of the facility, usually an SES or Political Appointee, made the decision to have a staff only gym. The decision was a legal, but stupid, decision. The peon CS supervisor does not have typically have the authority to make such decisions, but took an oath to carry them carry out.

Kudos to the supervisor in this case

Supervisor
U.S. Treasury
Wed Feb 4, 2009 7:42 AM

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It sounds like the "Supervisor" did a great job by documenting prior incidents which in turn supported the final removial action. {and Bruce had a history of similar misconduct that had resulted in separate prior disciplinary actions for using disrespectful language and making inappropriate statements. (p. 3)}
The Supervisor doing what was needed allowed the punishment to fit the "behavior" Kudos to the Supervisor in this case.

Re: Kudos to the supervisor in this case

HR Specialist (ER/LR)
Treasury
Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:26 AM
And Congratulations to the lucky HR Specialist who got to work with this well trained Supervisor! I wanna be like you!

Re: Kudos to the supervisor in this case

fed
employee
Wed Feb 4, 2009 11:44 AM
While you should follow orders, respect is a two way street. Supervisors sometimes feel they can talk to employees anyway they want to include red faced screaming. I was once told by a former supervisor that the reason he let some of the employees get away with stuff was that they could retire and he could not do anything to them, but since I was not old enough to retire he could hurt my career. Was that respectful?

And why do the vast majority of HR people seem to be totally anti-employee?
Supervisors are not perfect in everything they do.

Kudos

HR Director
USAF
Wed Feb 4, 2009 7:53 AM

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Kudos to the supervisor and agency for taking what sounds like the appropriate action in this case. Not to say every action supervisors or mgt take is right. But, too many times, supervisors and mgt elect not to do the right thing, either because of the time involved or to avoid litigation, and it affects the morale of the employees who come to work and don't complain or disrupt the workplace. I"m sure there is a prospective employee out there eager for the vacant Federal job.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Progam Analyst
OPM
Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:39 AM

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Enough said.

Fake Whistle Blower

HR Manager (retired)
DoD
Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:40 AM

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Once again we see an employee whose actions merit removal use the whistle blower defense to attempt to justify her/his conduct and actions. It is persons like this employee who make it difficult for real whistle blowers to effectively use this defense. Fake whistle blowers have become so common place that all such claims are now looked at with a jaundice eye. Hopefully, the VA did look into why a workout room is being set aside for the staff. If setting aside this room impacted patient care then the practice should stop immediately.

Fired Fed

Patient Business Assistant
VA
Wed Feb 4, 2009 11:26 AM

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The vets aren't first, employee rights are nill & misappropriation of funds is the norm in VA. As a rep, I've had a few cases like this. I've rarely seen MSPB rule on the employee's side in this type matter. The supv. & the clerk had personality conflicts. The clerk filed a griev. The supv. then began to secretly have other clerks watch her for mos & write reports of contact about her "behavior w/pats". The clerk didn't know she was being written up for joking w/ pats, giving them instruction on where to go (the report said she yelled @ the pt, but after union investigated, found he was hard of hearing). Her comments taken out of context as if she had disrespected pts. She wasn't allowed to confront or know the people who wrote the reports. The suprv presented most of the evidence to mangmt as her own account. The clerk was not allowed to present statements from the pts., that mangt. said she offended & MSPB felt none of this evidence was valid when the case came up for decision.

Re: Fired Fed

BigWig
ICE
Wed Feb 4, 2009 1:15 PM
So, after realizing she was going to be fired, she "blew the whistle" fraudulently. That's OK?

Sorry, but these employees need to be "former" employees.

respect a two way street!

LPN
VA
Wed Feb 4, 2009 1:34 PM

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In this case I agree with supervisor. Working in a VA, many of the program managers are disrespecful and rude to staff and vets. respect is a two way street. i saw a program manager ignore for months a employee late a hour or two at least 5 times a pay period, sometimes never show up for their shift. Her excuse I overslept! Nothing is done but she gets promoted! You see some amazing things in a VA.

Re: respect a two way street!

Diversity Manager
DOL
Wed Feb 4, 2009 6:16 PM
As a vet who has been treated in a VA facility i can tell you that the staff seldom gives the vets in their charge any respect. So I'm indifferent to whether employees give it to each other

Re: respect a two way street!

Prof
Small College
Fri Feb 6, 2009 5:09 AM
Manager I have to part ways on this one. I have always been treated with the utmost respect at DVA facilities.

Re: respect a two way street!

NURSE
VA
Fri Feb 6, 2009 9:02 AM
I have seen the same thing at my VA, the nurse manager has favorites that brownnose, she attends her favorite peoples functions, they get step increases, bonuses, special hours, special light assignment's, while the others are more like the slaves of the unit, and behold if you say anything about the way you are treated.

Re: respect a two way street!

HR Specialist
FAA
Fri Feb 6, 2009 10:26 AM
Proff and DM,
You two are both right, don't you work BOTH at those facilities as a cook and a janitor.
Total Comments: 23
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