Re: So many factors.....

Washington rarely displays common sense, but if you favor companies run jointly by unions and government you are senseless. The government does only a few things right - running a for profit business is not among them. Most unions are corrupt and incompetent. Expecting the government and unions jointly to run a business sucessfully is asinine.

Re: So many factors.....

Sounds like special agent various is a radical rightist. Government does things poorly? Unions are corrupt. Does he remember that management drove GM into bankruptcy by making vehicles with poor reliability? Does he forget about the banks, run by management people, that were bankrupt without government aid. And then these banks further enrich the wealthy management people. They do not even want the owners (shareholders) to have a say over bonuses and salaries). These are the same banks that forced the lending employees to do no doc loans that went bad. Of course managers made money on these loans while the shareholoders lose when things go bad. Let us not forget the greedy credit card companies that charge usury interest rates after sucking in their victims with teaser rates. Do not forget their fees either.
I am not saying unions are angels. The auto workers pay is much to high. But so is management pay. They should be reduced to the Japanese level.

Re: So many factors.....

Special Agent is a realist. Historically, unions have served a valid purpose, but their need and effectiveness ended years ago. Federal unions especially are unnecessary and wasteful. It is time to eliminate federal unions, Failing that, public funding and support should end.

Re: So many factors.....

To retired IRS
Why do you say that Federal unions are unnecessary and wasteful? They are necessary to reign in the excesses of management such as violations of the manual when it suits them, assigning inventory and expecting workers to work these cases on time when it is impossible to do a quality job. They lobby for things such as public transit subsidies, pay, awards, etc.
If the workers did not want unions, they would not pay dues.

Re: So many factors.....

People pay dues for many reasons. Necessity is rarely among them. Stupidity often is. NTEU (like other federal unions) is an awful waste of money and time. Not only is dues money squandered, so is tax money. Wake up to reality. Federal employees do not "need" unions to protect them. All they need is common sense and a decent work ethic. Unions mostly represent and "defend" those who should be fired.

Re: So many factors.....

To Rev Officer IRS
I will not say the NTEU does quality work. However, it is better than nothing.
What about the quality worker who gets an egotistical, incompetent manager? He can't help but get on the wrong side of this manager. This can and does cause major problems for the worker as the territory chiefs generally support the manager whether he is right or wrong.
Therefore, union representation is needed for the good workers also.

Re: So many factors.....

If you do not like the way GM is being run...don't by their products!!!...that is the only way they will get the msg!

Re: Greedy Unions

To PM Don
Yes it does have to do with the greedy unions. However, they are taking after management. If you looked up the pay of the executives, including stock options, you will find that they made multi millions of dollars. The workers did not come close to that. Why should the workers sacrifice when the executive were like pigs at a trough.
If they imitated the Japanese scale of pay, all would have been better off.

Re: Greedy Unions

To answer your question about why foreign care thrive.
Maybe better quality and engineering, durability vs. Fix Or Repair Daily? Who would want to constantly deal with car problem? After having my Chrysler for years, I will not buy another one because they are just lemon.

Re: Greedy Unions

It's not only greedy unions....it's dumb management practices, as most assembly line managers are JUST as barbaric as many claim unions to be.

Free Trade, Poor Products, and not having employees contribute towards benefits are some of the many factors.

Re: Greedy Unions

To PM Don
Forgot to answer another question-why US car manufaturers are having problems.
I owned an American car. It became a mess after a relatively short period of time. I next bought a Japanese car. I lasted about twice as long.
Enough said.

Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me

Good attitude. Buy foreign and support the foreign corporations.

Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me

Come on, you can't be serious to believe unions are the only ones at fault.

Management is just as responsible....and $55k a year + benefits is a fraction of the wages being paid to bankers and employees of these big investment firms who've been robbing you blind.

Don't buy if you don't like a product, but don't avoid making a purchase because it's UAW made.,,,remember, there ARE some great individuals who work for these companies, who don't necessarily agree with everything the union chooses to do.

Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me

A lot of todays American workers earn $6, $10, or maybe $15 per hour. Their benefits are often meager. Why should they stretch their budegts to buy cars made by American UAW workers making many multiples more money per hour than them? Also with benefits, in their UAW contract, that are dreamy, expensive, and beyond the reach of these average American workers of today. Foreign auto makers will keep getting more business!! I am a union member and I do not cry for the UAW!!!

Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me

"Various" makes an interesting point. Maybe not politically correct but it would be foolish not to consider it.

In a former life I worked for a company that dealt in suspension, brake and tire service for several years. GM and Ford cars needed extra parts and extra work far more than any others. The workmanship and materials on GM and Ford cars were substandard compared with the rest.

This was not an isolated instance, it was over several years observing thousands of cars. The trend was undeniable and pointed to the level of quality in the product.

Re: Partnership

Dear Vice President AFGE Local 1273 VHA,

Nice Union propaganda! You make supervision look like a bunch of vampires! Oh, and you protect workers alright. Even the poor performing ones that don't want to put in a hard days work. Why is this? Because, you don't want to lose members that contribute money to AFGE. AFGE is constantly fighting to lower production standards in all federal agenices. AFGE only cares about one thing, themselves, and attaining more power. I have yet to meet an AFGE steward who could honestly tell me they care about the mission. 95% of all grievances filed, are from poor performing employees who think their supervisor is doing them some injustice. When in fact, they are lazy, and don't want to do anything. There are enough federal and state laws in place to protect workers rights. Bottom line, your only fans are politicians and people looking for a free lunch on the taxpayers dime.

Re: Partnership

Union VP - Federal unions are not always the enemy, but they are not part of the solution either. They place a fiscal drain on everyone (especially taxpayers) and contribute little in return. They are unnecessary and far too costly. Advocates of federal unions are often misinformed zealots with personal issues. I do not need a union to "protect" my rights. It is only the poor performers who think they do.

Re: Partnership

Are you kidding me? The Unions are the most unproductive organization in the US.

Re: Partnership

Bravo. During my 31 year career as an LR I ran into union bums and union leaders. Naturally I enjoyed dealing with those who had views similar to yours and I tried not being a management pig.
I also have to admit the same applies to supervisors - lots of good ones and lots of them should never have been given any responsibility over others. As one local union president said on the stage with a theater full of supervisors: "Thank you thank. Give on doing what you're doing. You're my best recruiter" - or something like that.
What I learned over the years is that every labor relationship is different. Each one has it's own history. There are no magic solutions - especially those from high above. The parties have to decide on their own that they want to get along better. They can do that now - always could.

Re: Partnership

What a joke. Anyone who believes unions and the government can effectively jointly run anything is misguided. Unions border on incompetence, and the government is not far ahead. We will pay dearly for this experiment.

Re: Partnership

Retired Exec Treasury:
You overlooked the overhyped private sector executives. They are making us build more prisons for them & their do nothing boards of directors. I observed over 5 years ago, that the scandals were becoming just a blur!! There was so many & they keep getting worse!! That's one big reason that most of my serious money is invested overseas. It's saver & more prudent. Wall Street & the US corporate elite have trashed this country!! Shareholder rights mean nothing!! While you slam federal managers & union people, has the golden private sector gods slipped your memory??

Re: Partnership

To Supervisor DLA,
You comment that the unions represent the poor performing workers. If that is the case, management will have the documentation to discipline and fire them. The union will not be able to prevent this. Actually, some unknown percentage is these so called ppoor performers are working for an incompetent egotistical manager who can't do his job or wants to look good on the backs of his employees. Unions are needed to defend the worker against this type of manager. They are not rare either.
I am not saying that all managers are bad. Some are.
The rest of your comments appear to be an emotional outburst. Did you lose a case against someone you do not like?

Re: Partnership

DLA supervisor:
If there are so many poor performing employees, guess what the problem is? You and your fellow managers. You folks are too lazy to do your jobs. Firing somebody for performance is the easiest way to get rid of them. The level of proof is lower than what is needed when firing for discipline. Quit whining and just do your job. Quit bashing the Union representatives until you've cleaned your own house.

Re: Partnership

"If there are so many poor performing employees, guess what the problem is? You and your fellow managers. "

blah, blah, blah. Another regurgitation of employees are all poor performers because of bad management, or that management sucks because they have to supervise a hoard of lazy do nothing employees.

This tired line of whining gets really old. Give it a rest.