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KSA's To Be Phased Out

KSA

program assistant
HUD
Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:02 PM

Post Reply

I believe KSA should only be for NON FEDERAL EMPLOYEES.
Current emloyees have there EEPES to show there knowledge, skills and abilities.
Current employees just need to update there resume.
KSA keep a lot of good current employees FROM applying its just a pain for most.
AGAIN STOP KSA FOR CURRENT EMPLOYEES.

GLAD OPM WANTS TO CHANGE

Re: KSA

Fed Employee
CBP
Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:20 AM
Your posting is one very good example of why the KSA's are necessary. You would definitely fail on the "Ability to Communicate in Writing" portion.

Re: KSA

Line Worker
DOE
Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:25 AM
Fed Employee
CBP
Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:20 AM
Your posting is one very good example of why the KSA's are necessary. You would definitely fail on the "Ability to Communicate in Writing" portion.
_________________
Awsome post!!!!!!

Re: KSA

Analyst
HHS
Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:03 AM
To the CBP "Jerk Off" Fed Employee - Don’t you realize that you can have somebody write KSAs for you? You are so busy criticizing someone’s writing skills that the thought never crossed your mind. I know some people who charge to write KSAs. This person that will fail your "Ability to Communicate in Writing" portion just might be a good and honest employee with other strengths. KSAs don't prove anything. I have interviewed people and it was quite obvious that somebody wrote their KSAs. Get rid of them!!!

Re: KSA

ICE
UL Manager
Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:37 AM
Yup. I saw that.

These are the folks who send me résumés rife with misspellings and grammar errors. Then FOIA and sue to find out just why he or she didn't make the cut.

Resume, KASO; whatever the format, let's ensure the applicants can put two sentences together.

BTW: The comment, "KSAs "scare" many potential applicants from seeking a federal job" is spin for, "we want to hire a bunch of folks who aren't otherwise employable." Further destroying the federal workplace like Fannie Mae did to the housing market.

Sigh...

Re: KSA

King Crab
Crab
Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:11 PM
Look at your own writing skills. You have alot of nerve to judge others. I'm sure you are perfect and I'm glad I don't work for you.

Re: KSA

Ernest T. Bass
rock chucker
Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:55 AM
Big difference between posting on this site and writing a KSA. I spend seconds posting and days on a KSA.

Doing away with KSAs will begin hiring reform

Federal HR Specialist/Consultant
N/A
Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:14 PM

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Doing away with the KSAs is the first step to reforming the federal hiring process that has grown from a basic hiring process into a monolithic and unmanageable process. Federal hiring should be simple, straight forward and efficient - it is not. Instead, applicants are disqualified if they do not submit KSAs - without regard to the merits of the applicant's experience and education. Federal examining processes need to become efficient - they are not. Yes, automated systems will need to be reprogrammed to scan applications in greater detail but then again reviewing one's application to identify the best qualified should always be the overriding standard. Appeals and problems will reflect upon shoddy HR staffing and examining work manifested in poorly programmed processes. No doubt HROs will call for more FTEs - instead, agencies should collaborate and develop efficient automated programs justified on quality of rating, volume and cost similar to the way payment centers operate...

Keep the KSAs to avoid fluffy resumes

Program Analyst
DHS
Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:45 PM

Post Reply

I say keep the KSAs. Your answers to KSAs may actually be related to the position for which you are applying. Resumes on the other hand can be tailored to look pretty but contain nothing but fluff. Anyone who believes that their education is as important as their job knowledge and experience has obviously not been on the job for long. Too many people within gov service are already here because their resumes and degrees are pretty but their work product shows a decided lack of ability.

Re: Keep the KSAs to avoid fluffy resumes

analyst
FAA
Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:05 AM
Dump the KSAs to eliminate BS narratives.

More often iteh KSA process rewards the ghost writer who actually wrote the applicant's KSA for him or her.

Re: Keep the KSAs to avoid fluffy resumes

Reformed Conservative
DFAS
Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:53 AM
KSA's can also be tailored; there are plenty of professional KSA writers out there. A better approach might be to bring back the Civil Service Test, both to get in the door, and to be tested for every job you apply for in your career--there would have to be various tests for various series, obviously, and they'd have to be rotated and updated at random to prevent the answers from being stolen and sold. Then you give the appropriate test to everyone who applies for the position. High scorer gets the job.

Who Cares

Union Activist
Postal Service
Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:40 PM

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After working for the USPS for 25 years. I feel our management couldn't pass the IQ test much less a KSA.

This should be interesting!

HR Specialist
DoD
Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:49 PM

Post Reply

Ok, so they do away the the PACE test...and it's replacement was too cumbersome to use...so, the Government went to the case examining model.

But they did away with the SF-171 which gave the level of detail sufficient to make a determination of who was the best qualified. So, we got skimpy--sometimes meaningless--resumes...but we had applicants make up for it by doing KSA's.

So, we have no PACE test, we have no detailed information in the resume, and we eliminate the last bit of detail that we had in the KSA's.

So, when we have 100 qualified applicants for one vacancy, we are going to use a drawing?

Re: This should be interesting!

HR Specialist
SSA
Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:09 AM
Amen-I can't wait to see a resume that has 5 bullet stmts regarding the $$ amount of the budget somebody had responsibility for and one line regarding a BA/BS degree in response to an annt for which there is no educational substitution above the GS-11. No begin/end dates, no hours per week worked, no details on what the applicant actually DID. I see my Not Qual'd determinations going WAY up - not from a lack of probably qualified candidates, but because we're moving to a situation where we CAN'T determine if somebody meets the OPM Qual Standard for a position based on a one-page resume. Won't those NQ decisions on the Notices of Results be more discouraging than having to complete KSAs that help effectively rank candidates and highlight those that are truly Best Qualified for the position being filled? It's the same old thing-Quantity vs. Quality...and apparently, we're in a Quantity cycle. Oh sure, we'll get more apps, but they won't be worth @#$!%.

Re: This should be interesting!

Diversity Manager
DOL
Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:05 PM
Your acting as if your hiring rocket scientists. Look the majority of CS jobs don't even require a degree so if your 98.6 your qualified. Quit trying to make it look as if you have to be really good at something to be a fed.
if that was the case you would be in the private sector where you are paid what your worth and not based on your attendance

Re: This should be interesting!

HR Specialist
Dept of Labor
Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:53 AM
Div Man,
Since you are not, and never have been a Federal civil servant, how would you know what it is like to fill out KSAs, what it is like to be a Federal civil servant, or what it takes to be a Federal civil servant?

KSA

Senior Power Plant Operator
USACE
Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:04 PM

Post Reply

I wish KSA's would make a comeback in our agency. We rely on Resumix to much. The KSA's used to help separate the technically competent from the people who do not have the skills necessary for the position. A subject matter expert can review a KSA and tell pretty quick if the author is a suitible candidate. I think in certain job series they are a must.

Re: KSA

Retired
DOC
Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:45 PM
Agreed. For tech jobs and jobs with specific skills, properly formed KSAs will elicit a responses that reveal the experience through the use of terminology, phrasing and highlighting of the important job aspects from the responder. If they don't talk the talk, you question those years of experience they list on the resume. Whether they had 5 years experience or one year five times? You don't need an essay either. An experienced person reveals themselves in only a couple of sentences.

If you're hiring an office worker whose skills are of the soft kind, then maybe a resume will suffice but tech skills, scientific skills aren't always apparent in education and job lists on one page. Nor possible the aptitude to work in a non-office/lab environment.

Pure Baloney...

Retired Fed
None
Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:11 AM

Post Reply

FTA: "Once the KSAs are gone for good, you can bet that the number of applicants for Federal Jobs will increase in a big way."

This is patent nonsense, as is most of the article. Most folks looking for employment, Federal of otherwise, are not on a lark. People generally apply for jobs with a purpose, i.e. to earn a living. And if the application process "discouraged" an applicant, what will the procurement or budget precesses do for them?

So, once again the Fed government adopts the lowest common denominator. Putting aside the reportedly dishonest "buddy hires", why would anyone think that culling candidates with minimal and questionable information is a good idea?

Total Comments: 72
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