Re: Phil Off the Mark

Partnering is problem solving, not what you are saying. What is problem solving with management discretion? If it is the right of management to not agree with union proposals, then, of course, management has that right. Try to work it out. If it is the right of management to try to impose on everything while giving lip service to problem solving, then there is no sense to that.
Partnership is not co managing. It is listening and trying to work things out before grievances etc.

Re: Federal unions are a joke

IRS Exec - You are correct, but union supporters will never acknowledge it. The reasons are simple. Few admit to themselves (much less to others) that they have wasted money by senselessly paying dues. Others are imcompetent and "need" unions to "protect" them from "evil" managers. Some have personal agenda that the union supports locally. My experience has been that most local unions are poorly lead. Federal unions have minimal impact nationally. I agree that federal unions could and should serve to enhance the performance, working conditions, benefits, and respect of federal workers. Sadly, they fail at all. Those who feel federal unions are needed to protect the rights of workers are grossly misinformed. Federal unions are too costly and ineffective. They should be abolished. Instead, we waste more money are partnership and conferences. It is little wonder that America is going broke.

Re: Federal unions are a joke

Bad management makes bad unions. Without federal unions managers will largely abuse of their power and authority. Couldn't expect more from some one that made a living of pinching pennies has never seen the big picture of management and labor relations and how bad it can be for some of us. At the end those who work hard to serve our country and fully support the military and its mission always pay the price$$$$.

Re: Federal unions are a joke

I have evaluated many organizations - union and non-union. Feds have the same rights regardless of bargaining union status. There is simply no meaningful difference in how federal employees are treated. Union claims of "protecting" employees from overzealous and evil managers are usually inaccurate or exaggerate the role of and need for the union. Federal unions could be helpful, but most local chapters are infected with employees who dislike management due to personal bias. Some are unsuccessful managers and many others hold management in comtempt. Local leaders often harm their own members solely to make management look bad or further personal agenda. I pity employees who feel the "need" to have the union protect them. I would hate to be so unsure of my skills and abilities. In my experience, poor mangers usually fail rather quickly. Often they "learned" how to manage by watching their union in action.

Re: Federal unions are a joke

To retired exec and special agent,
Retired exec sounds like he is anti union even though he denies it. It sounds like he was very autocratic and did not like his decisions challenged. Hopefully, I am wrong, but I doubt it.
I have worked for managers who are incompetent, abusive, and egotistical. They have you do things that violate the manual (and then say we do not always go by the manual), put you in danger for no reason at all, and have you do illegal things. They then deny telling you this. Was the union any good? Not really, but it might have reigned in the manager a little. Better there than not there.
Partnering might help resolve problems before they develop into formal grievances.
Special Agents do not have a union for some reason. I believe it is law, regulation, or something. How would the special agent know about unions?

Re: Federal unions are a joke

Worker - You must be unaware of the old adage that it is better to remain silent and have others assume you are ignorant than to open you mouth and remove all doubt. Your assertion that one must be in the bargaining unit to understand unions is laughable. So is your baseless opinion about other's management styles. Your thinking is an example of what is wrong with federal unions - bias and dullness. The main point was that federal union achievements do not warrant their expense. I agree. Challenge with facts not drivel.

Re: Federal unions are a joke

I spent 30 years in federal law enforcement and intelligence. I was never in a union, but I conducted numerous internal investigations in agencies with federal unions. Culprits included managers, union members, and union officials. There are poor and corrupt managers, just as there are ineffective and dishonest employees and union leaders. I have seen what good unions can accomplish. Sadly, positive achievements are rare. More often local chapters are more interested in posturing and showboating than in real progress. This often works against the very workers they claim to represent. This is duplicitious and wasteful. Many union members are too misinformed and/or jaded to know their union is not effectively serving their interest. Many who refuse to pay dues do so for precisely this reason. Regardless, taxpayer subsidy (direct and indirect) of federal unions should be ended immediately. We certainly do not need more conferences to discuss "partnership".

Re: Federal unions are a joke

To Special Agent,
If you would stop writing such nonsense and know what you are talking about, it might help. You critisize me by calling my comments drivel but do not justify how it is drivel. I critisize certain managers' actual practices with facts and call it baseless. You give some kind of stupid quote about ignorance that makes no sense. If I am giving facts to back up my position, I cannot be ignorant.
The spcial agent cited is not in a union. He cited nothing to to back up his assertions except to give more assertions. Unions are needed to correct actions by management that should be overturned by an arbitrator. They are needed to correct management actions that are wrong.
Special Agent-DHS-Learn how to read and comprehend before you write. Your comments have no back up and jsut reflect your negative attitude towards unions

Re: Federal unions are a joke

Worker - If your comments accurately reflect your reasoning and writing ability, you probably are one of the poor performers referenced by several responders. I hope your job does not require mental acumen. If so, I pity those having to manage you. Have you considered seeking a leadership position in your local union? You might fit in well. You have the right attitude. Aptitude and ability are optional.

Re: Federal unions are a joke

For 24 years I managed union and non-union organizations supervising 1000's of subordinate managers. Few were truly anti-union. However, many view federal unions as poorly managed and ineffective. I had both good and bad working relationships with chapters. The difference was not me; it was the attitude and actions of the chapter leaders. I respected those who avoided personal bias and agenda and aggressively represented their members. I loathed dealing with those who were duplicitious. I often saw local presidents negotiate in bad faith and posture simply to oppose management. Using obstruction and delay tactics to irritate rather than achieve were common. Federal unions could be a positive influence, but too often local leaders use their positions to punish management for past sins - real or imagined. Cost effectiveness is another issue. Even well run chapters are rarely worth the expense. Overall, union achievements are tiny and extremely costly to members and taxpayers.

Re: Federal unions are a joke

I joined NTEU because I wanted to pay my share. After 4 years watching our chapter bash management while aggressively defending poor performers, slackers, and malcontents, I quit. I considered running for office, but the chapter is so full of mindless haters whose primary goal is to oppose management that I no longer wished to be part of the union. Anyone who questions or opposes union policy is branded "anti-union". Union members try to marginalize critics, just as a few minorities cry racism when they are challenged. Some critics may be anti-union (or racist), but most are not. The anti-union people I know are those who once belonged to the union. They became disillusioned as I did. I support what unions could be, but not what our's is. Significant taxpayer money is wasted for little gain. Federal unions are not cost effective. Partnership has achieved little in the past. We waste taxpayer money pursuing a fantasy. Local and national leaders should be held accountable.

Re: Federal unions are a joke

Worker - I hope you have other virtues that exceed your wisdom. Your comments provide no clarity or insight. You are either a dolt or you mimic one with aplomb. Are you teasing us? "Drivel" is a compliment.
The issue of subsidy of federal unions has been discussed before. Even union zealots reluctantly admit federal unions receive huge subsidies. The true cost (dues plus direct and indirect support by agencies) is staggering and shameful despite the reality that federal unions accomplish little. Most executives would abolish them. Not because they are anti-union, but because a business case to continue them would be impossible. They are tolerated out of political correctness. Unions are unnecessary to elicit employee imput. That is demonstrated in non-union organizations. Unfortunately, federal unions are here to stay (despite their wastefulness) because politicians lack the integrity and fortitude to oppose them. Propaganda cannot demonstrate otherwise.

Re: Federal unions are a joke

Another - Right you are. Making a successful business case to continue public subsidy of federal unions would require either a mission impossible team or a group of politicians (the latter are unrestrained by ethics or common sense). I support the concept of unions. and they are needed in many industries. Government is not among them. We have adequate laws, regulations, and procedures to protect us, and unions have done little to help. Federal unions claim undue credit for the few benefits we have gained in the past 40 years, but they did not stem the steady erosion of our overall benefits over the same period. Union leaders remind me of politicians. When unable to solve problems, politicians preach that things would be even worse were it not for them. When things improve despite them, they claim full credit. Politicians will never challenge federal unions. They lack the guts and integrity. The best we can hope for is a reduction in subsidies. Don't hold your breath.

Re: Federal unions are a joke

I worked with many executives in four agancies - two with unions. Saying federal unions are tolerated is understatement. Their futility is obvious and sad. This is not anti-union rhetoric, it is fact. Executives in agencies with unions consider them an unnecessary cost of doing business. I rarely saw unions contibute anything of value (even when relationships were positive). Often they delayed and obstructed policy implementation for invalid and quarrelsome reasons, even when they acknowledged the new procedures were beneficial to employees. Grandstanding and showboating was commonplace. My management style was to welcome employee imput. Doing so was far easier and more productive in non-union settings. Unions leaders often were incapable of moving beyond past losses or alleged sins. They were usually shortsighted and possessed the worst traits of politicians. The simple fact is agencies without federal unions are better places to work (for everyone) and more efficient.