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Collaboration or Co-Management: A Look at Section 2(c) of the Proposed Obama Executive Order on Labor Relations

My Sentiments Exactly

Fiscally Responsible Fed
Somewhere
Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:39 AM

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You GO, Bob!!

Bad News

HR DOI
DOI
Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:50 AM

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Bad news.

The meaning of collaboration

Union Pres
DoD
Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:58 AM

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Mr, Gilson, I see great minds do think alike. I have interpreted the meaning of section 2(c) precisely as you. Some of my "friends" in management do not, and don't feel threatened. Neither should you my "friend".
I do have one question though. Since yo refer to all union reps as "undeserving", does that infer that all supervisors and managers ARE deserving? You need to get out and get some fresh air!! Most union reps are trained, and have to be accountable to a board, or get reelected. Supervisors do not.
When is the last time ANYONE heard of a supervisor fired for ruining someone's life because poor judgement.
YOU know very well, Mr. Gilson, if I fail to represent someone fully, I can be helsd accountable by the FLRA, AND Dept of Labor. This is not even talking about criminal charges is the books are not in perfect order. When is the last time a supervisor went to jail for spending money that was not his??
I do look forward to "change".

Re: The meaning of collaboration

LongTime Fed Manager
DOE
Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:31 AM
You go, Union Pres! Maybe this measure will bring to light all the really horrible managers in the federal government, who ruin people's lives while running amok with programs and taxpayers' dollars.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

back in the saddle
the best
Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:01 AM

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Imagining the worst case scenario and pitching it on this website is an entertaining, albeit ultimately pointless, exercise. Pre-decisional involvement in the vast majority of cases will entail sharing some "inside scoop" with the union leadership and asking for their comments on it. Most will be just so thrilled to be in the know and so incapable of providing meaningful input that management will do what it wanted to do to begin with and the union be able to preen about its new status.

LAST WORDS

NCFLL, V.P. OFCCP-SOUTHEAST
OFCCP
Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:34 AM

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Mr. Gilson:

Your assesment of the employees and/or members at the equation of 10%, etc., of being disgruntled, etc., is highly conjecture on your part. As always, your side-way views (articulated as experience and/or expert views) are biased to say the least. You don't even beging to make a proper assesment of the federal worker and especially those who are Union members. Your forget sir, we are pretty damn smart ourselves and being smart puts us into the bracket of being members of our Locals because of managements bad management, behavior and motives that fail to produce a line of communication in which everyone can work among.

Your insights, as you say, are yours - well, they're terribly wrong perceptionally.

I remain a supportive Union member based upon my rights as an American and as a Disabled Vietnam Veteran who help protect these rights for over 25 years of very honorable service. Where is your honorable service?

Ray M. Ables
NCFLL, V.P. OFCCP-SOUTHEAST

Gilson is a paranoid blowhard

Union Rep
FAA
Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:45 AM

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It never ceases to amaze me at the level of Mr. Gilson's paranoia. The federal bureaucracy did not become better and faster under the previous administration, quite the contrary. If you are so naive to believe that the current management of federal agencies are the only ones who have the experience to run those agency's then you have not been paying attention. When management manages through fear and intimidation, through secret management fiat, and without the input of the employees who actually carry out the agency's mission, you wind up all too often with an inbred mentality incapable of delivering the goods. However, when you include employees in the process, you now have included one of the most important stakeholders. Think of it this way, if you were remodeling your kitchen, wouldn't you get input from your significant other? The federal government has been remodeling for years, now its time to include their significant other in the process!

Re: Gilson is a paranoid blowhard

Almost a retiree
US Government
Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:41 AM
Paranoid blowhard? Now that's a laugh. Mr. Gilson is a realist.

News Flash!The sky fell 8 years ago

Specialist
DOT
Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:50 AM

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For all you management egomaniacs out there who think that YOU have all the answers to all the federal workplace issues pull your head out! While mgmt is and must be the final authority or as you are used to from bush - "the decision maker", the road to that decision must be shared by all. Only then is there hope of getting to the correct answer. Unions do not have all the answers and neither does managment - the last 8 years attest to that. Bob, you are one sorry individual. You take EVERY opportunity you can to denigrate tens of thousands of dedicated federal employees, some union members and some not, but most represented by a union that has a federal obligation to fairly represent all. Failure to do so is a major violation with serious consequences. Union reps are well trained in labor law and their contracts. There are feather nesting reps just as there are managers but the vast majority want to do the right thing Now they CAN be part of the solution and not an oarsman!

Re: News Flash!The sky fell 8 years ago

Concerned Fed
DoD
Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:23 AM
Yeah, you see the problem with Union folk being in on making decisions is that they're not accountable when the work doesn't get done. When that happens, regardless of whether there has been "collaboration", the Union will happily point the finger of blame toward the other side of the table. I'm guessing if the EO made it clear that Unions would, in fact, be held accountable, we'd see much less enthusiasm on the labor side.

Re: News Flash!The sky fell 8 years ago

SCS
USPS
Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:38 PM
As a Union officer of 6 years early in my career and now as a manager I have seen the ugliness of both sides. But what most of you fail to realize yet again that this not about collaborating efforts. It is about control and power. I am not at all against unions or their purpose. What I am against is, as usual, the unions pushing to get control at the table where they have no seat. When will the masses wake up and realize they are the workers. Yes, they have clear insight to the jobs they do but who do you think created those jobs or set into motion the processes those jobs support? There is nothing wrong with consulting employees when considering change. In fact if you want successful change it is essential. However, it is not necessary to give the union authorized powers of participation. Any manager worth a dime knows that his/her employees are why we succeed, but only if they are doing their jobs to begin with. If as a worker you think you can do better, step up to the plate. I did.

Re: News Flash!The sky fell 8 years ago

worker
fed
Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:32 AM
To concerned Fed DOD,
This is not about unions gaining control. It is about management listening to the workers with an open mind or their reps before making certain decisions. Hopefully this will reduce grievances and unfair labor practice charges and make the agency run better. Since management makes the decisions, unions cannot be responsible for management decisions.
To SCS USPS,
I thought you were in management by the tone of your comments. You know I am not in management by the tone of my comments.
It is good that you recognize your subordinates' efforts. That is the mark of a good manager.
This only makes legal what you should be doing. It forces you to listen critically to what the workers have to say. It does not mean you must obey the union or your workers. You should not have a problem with this.
You are ceding control by listening. You are not ceding control since you do not have to obey. Therefore, there is no power struggle unless there is a grievance.

Re: News Flash!The sky fell 8 years ago

SCS
USPS
Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:20 PM
Fed Worker, you and I clearly do not share the same opinions or view points. That is okay though. Unfortunately though you do not recognize that our ogvernment was established with regulated restrictions to its involvement into the daily lives of its citizens. There is no place for legislation like this in the work place. Never was and never will be. If you can't handle that then make a change in your life and step up to the plate. Change comes from within and only through constant struggle and strife generaly. So get off your soap box and start wlking the walk instead of just talking the talk. There is always room for additional good managers. Make a real difference!

Re: News Flash!The sky fell 8 years ago

worker
fed
Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:36 AM
To concerned fed,
You obviously did not read what Specialist DOT wrote. The comment is that management is the final authority. He also said that management should listen to the workers or their reps before making the decision. Why should unions share the responsibility for managements' decisions?
To SCS USPS,
Again, you write and attribute without reading. Workers want you in management to listen before making decisions. You still have the final authority. The regulation(not law) makes this formal. Where is the power here?
Since the reg will probably go into effect, why do you say that I must make the change? If you cannot live with this, then why should you be a manager?
Your comments make no sense since you are the one that needs to change based on the reg.

Re: News Flash!The sky fell 8 years ago

SCS
USPS
Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:46 PM
Fed Worker, because you are obviously the one who is dissatisfied with the current state of affairs... not I. I already listen to my employees and solicit their input so this changes nothing for me in reality. My point was there is no need for an executive order of this nature. And in turn if the union wants the right ot have a say in what and how change is implemented then the burden of responsibility should follow as well. As the saying goes, can't have your cake and eat it to. If you really want to change the system be willing to personally take the necessary steps to make that change rather than just sitting on the side lines bitching and complaining!

Re: News Flash!The sky fell 8 years ago

worker
fed
Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:35 AM
To SCS USPS,
I am glad that you truly listen and evaluate what the workers say before you make a decision. That is a key ingrediant of being a good manager.
However, you fail to read what I write. I said that good management will listen to what the workers (and their reps) say before management makes the decision. It is still management's decision. That is what partnering is about.
Since it is management's decision, management is still responsible for the outcome.
When unions and workers can, themselves, make the decisions, then the unions and workers are responsible for those decisions. Unions and non management people (labelled workers for convenience) should not be responsible for the decisions that management makes.
Please note that the reg is necessary as various agencies do not, in reality, follow this concept. In some agency, some managers follow it, some give lip service, and some ignore it.
Total Comments: 42
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