Re: Abolish Federal Unions

True. However, who else is sticking up for the rank-and-file? Without the unions do you think people would be making decent wages? Do you really think that management, given a free hand, is going to be diligent about fair treatment of folks? Not in my experience. Texas, et al, aren't right-to-work states, they're right-to-work-for-less states. Top execs are making huge bonuses but two-income families can't make enough to pay the light bills, now there's a fine example of management-labor cooperation.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

Retired - You are right; now the union zealots will attack. They rarely agrue fact, because the facts do not support their dogma; they attack non-believers. I support collective bargaining and unions are needed in some settings, but they are unnecessary in the federal sector. Locally, they bargin over trivia and defend those who should be fired. Nationally, benefits erode as unions sing their own praises and claim things would be even worse were it not for them. They remind me of the WH claiming to have "saved" one million jobs. Their main claim is they "defend" workers from evil managers. What a joke. Amply safeguards exists in all agencies (union and non-union) to protect against management abuse. I know, I have worked in both environments. I see more abuse by union members and officers than I do by managers. Now, rather than attack me as anti-union, challenge the facts. Federal unions are not cost effective and waste taxpayer subsidies.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

engineer - You arguments about unions are valid, but they do not apply to federal agencies. Union zealots contend otherwise, but unions are not needed to ensure adequate pay and fairness in federal agencies. If they were, agencies without unions would suffer. They do not. Your comment about executive salaries and bonuses do not apply either. Top federal salaries are good (about $175,000), but they are laughable compared to other industries. Federal execs make less than twice the average federal salary. I do not see anyone calling for abolishing all unions, only federal unions.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

Engineer - You are correct about private unions - not federal ones. The difference is that private unions are self-sufficient - federal unions are heavily subsidized. Also, unions are unnecessary to ensure adequate pay and fairness to the federal workforce. Dispite unions claims to the contrary, safeguards exist to protect all feds. Finally, if federal executives were being compensated (salary, benefits, and bonuses) like private ones, I would not be retired.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

Are you the same person who you to sign as retired exec? You make the same reply in every comment - we get your position. The question is cost effective for whom? Federal unions unquestionably have gotten employees larger pay raises than they would have gotten otherwise as well as additional benefits. The most effective unions, e.g., NTEU and NATCA, have done quite well by their membership. Other unions and smaller bargaining units with few members are not particuarly effective for their membership. Are Federal unions cost effective for the public? Probably not, but that's really not the point is it? Sounds like you were routinely spanked by NTEU during your career and you're now taking pot shots from the safety of retirement.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

Unions have "unquestionably" gotten feds higher raises just like bail-outs have saved over a million jobs. Both claims are impossible to verify and probably untrue. Many factors influence federal salaries, and I suspect union impact is minimal. Benefits have eroded, not increased since I was hired in 1972. Do unions get the credit or blame?
Some union chapters are good; others are terrible. Overall, federal unions achieve little, except increasing their membership base (a poor measure of effectiveness). They waste taxpayer money - plain and simple. They are cost effective for the miscreants they often defend and the union leaders who use them to promote personal agenda. For everyone else, they are an unneeded burden.
Personal attacks are standard union fare, but simply show weakness of one's positions..

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

Despite being a longtime union supporter, I agree that federal unions are unnecessary and too costly. Private unions are valuable in ensuring the fair and honest treatment of workers - now and especially in years past. However, when I began my federal career, I soon saw that federal unions do not accomplish much. Compared to private unions they are toothless, useless, wasteful, and unneeded. I believe the subsidies they receive is one of the reasons. If they were effective, I would endorse them.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

saddle - personal attacks do not support your position or advance the story. Some federal unions are more effective than others, but collectively their achievements are nugatory. They may be cost effective for a few, but since they use tax subsidies they are too costly for us all.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

I get a little chuckle out of this as I will be considered the zealot that you so snidely refer to, but here goes. First, coming from Treasury, you had to deal with NTEU. I would be willing to bet a substantial sum of money that your butt was probably not intact after your dealings with NTEU as they are one of the most professional and effective unions in the federal sector. Secondly, let's deal with the facts. Fact NTEU represents over 70% of the bargaining unit people a far cry from your nebulous statement concerning many do not pay dues. Fact, you can represent yourself in any grievance or employment situation, however do you have the labor expertise backing you up? NTEU does. Unions are not needed for fair pay? Where have you been hiding? Who took Nixon to court when he withheld the fed raise? Who lobbies Congress for higher pay and pay parity? Who blocked the line item veto when Clinton was given the tool by Congress? Answer, NTEU thank you, those are the facts.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

I see the same repetitive nonsense from reited treasury,
controller FAA, retired exec, and possibly worker bee. Most understand you are anti union. Maybe the exec had trouble with unions when he was working and could not work with them. Worker bee. You should read some of the personal attacks these right wingers write about my comments which have substance.
Actually, the writer of the article did a good job. He did not blame unions or management per se, but blamed certain actions on each side. perhaps partnerships now will show an improvement over the Clinton years. There has to be a drastic improvement over the Bush years.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

So, we can thank the unions for a 2% pay adj in 2010, and failure to implement the mythical private-public pay gap since 1990? Gee, thanks. Oh, that's not your (union) fault? That's what I thought. My health benefits premiums have increased steadily throughout my career. Oh, that's not your fault? That's what I thought. So, what exactly is it that you do????

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

I worked with many NTEU chapters. Some were well led, others were not - just as some managers are effective and others not. I am not anti-union nor was I "spanked" by NTEU, but I believe federal unions add only marginal value (at best). If you match the expense of federal unions to their achievements, they fail to justify their existance. That may not matter to some, but since they are heavily subsidized it does to many, including me. Nationally, fewer than 70% of all feds are BU and only about half actually pay dues. Aguing that federal unions are essential to ensure fair play ignores that agencies without unions run very effectively without trampling employee rights. Nor can federal unions claim more than partial credit for raising federal pay or benefits. Those saying otherwise are misinformed or mendacious. Union fanatics often resort to name calling and personal attacks. That and openly anti-management rhetoric are two of the things that turn off many potential members.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

Civ - As you highlight, unions are excellent at claiming credit, but they are proficient only at casting blame not accepting it. What do unions do? If they are like "worker, fed" they waste government time. Worker spends considerable time blogging. I bet he uses a gov PC and internet connection too. I hope he gets caught soon. He will need union support to save his job. Sadly, he (and they) will deny all.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

"You should read some of the personal attacks these right wingers write about my comments which have substance. "

worker - give us examples.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

I can speak only for myself, but my views are shared by many members and non-members alike. I have been in the BU for 19 years in 2 cities. I was an NTEU member for 5. I quit for many of the reasons discussed above. I saw, and continue to see, union leaders (chapter(s) and national): mislead or lie; belittle others; ridicule and intimidate non-members; betray confidences; aggressively and underhandedly defend poor performers and those engaging in serious misconduct; grossly abuse official time while claiming to do union "business"; criticize incessantly; publish silly, inflamatory, and sometimes dishonest newsletters; preach that only they stand between us and abusive managers; and claim undue credit. NTEU does not reflect my values, and I do not need them to represent me. Some will say that I am wrong or that my chapter is not representative. Many of my colleagues around the country say otherwise. I like my job. NTEU causes more conflict than all my managers combined.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

To analyst DOD-Here are some examples of the nonsense they wrote.....

Fed - You waste a lot of official time reading and responding. Your comments rarely have substance - today is no exception. The grievance process is very similar for NBU employees. It is just simplified, less costly, and faster. I pity your coworkers and boss. You must be the pride of your department. Do some work.

Retired Treasury above comment

Retired too below comment
Fed - You attack, but your aruments are silly and unsupported. I have worked in both union and non union agencies. NBU employees have the same rights and virtually identical protections. The process is streamlined and better. You are poorly informed, but you have a right to speak. You violate rules by doing so on company time. How much official time do you waste blogging? The more you say the more foolish you appear. Wise up, then get back to work. You would be the first to expect the union to defend your misconduct.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

worker - You are still using official time to blog incessantly - or are you still "at lunch". We have all read your drivel - repeatedly. You are being attacked because you are a shirker, not because of your foolish comments. You may not be able to help being a dolt, but your misconduct is intentional. You should seek help, but work on gov time.

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

You sound like the Whitehouse - you hate criticism of your behavior

Re: Abolish Federal Unions

If Fox News did a story on feds who misuse government computers, internet connections, and official time, "worker" could become famous. Come out of the closet, worker, we are behind you, just like the union. Slackers like "worker" are rare, but still too common. He deserves ridicule, but he is probably iimmune. Don't just go to work; get another job - one with close supervision.

Re: Partnership Success/Lesssons Learned

Great points. I agree 100%

Re: Partnership Success/Lesssons Learned

I like my job, but not the atmosphere here. I'm sure there are many reasons, but I believe much of the strife is unnecessary and either caused by or exacerbated by the union. I did not see these issues when I worked in private industry. My bosses are not perfect, but I find union leaders more intolerant, judgmental, petty, critical, and mean. The hate and distrust openly exhibited by chapter officials is palpable. They seem to have a vendetta against all managers, even new ones who were former union members. I try to avoid them. I hope my situation is unique, but I wonder.