Re: Letters of Discipline

We have used the "paper suspenions" for 10 years and they have proved very sucessful. We have never had an arbitration over a paper suspension and MSPB will not take jurisdiction. I found it ridiculous to write letters to a employees saying thier absence had caused work problems and then increasing thier absence with a suspension.

Re: "The Road to Hell..."

I don't think DoD bothered to address the workplace realities of supervisors and employees in the disciplinary section (Subpart G) of the NSPS. Instead, the "mandatory removal" notion seemed to pre-occupy the Secretary. Reprimands, suspensions, tables of penalties, and other exasperating features of federal discipline appear to remain intact... with fewer employee protections from arbitrary and misguided bosses.

Re: Disciplinary Actions

I guess I don't understand how the current system proved your saving grace. Unscrupulous managers (and they're not confined to the DVA!) can still use progressive discipline to get someone fired -- assuming that HR and upper management are willing to collaborate. My ideas won't change that. I believe in employee protections that require management to rationally explain its choice to discipline.

As for your frustration with your union, I can only say that unions have helped innumerable employees in situations like yours... and saved many an employees job... and exposed many an incompetent boss.

Re: Disciplinary Actions

To the VA Rehab Counselor: You are 200% right, the VA disciplinary system is just about worthless due to gross corruption, lack of due process, retaliation, & reprisal. The corruption goes right up the Good Old Boy management ranks. I've seen it, I've experienced it, it stinks. Period.

Bottom line: No system will work if management is unethical. In addition it appears that what I had previously understood was the first most basic tenet of discipline (fix the behavior, retain the individual, removal only when progressive discipline fails) has become passe.

After 25 years of experience in seven different VA's I can tell you it's NOT the disciplinary system that's the problem, folks, it's the tenor of the Mafioso management (or are they "The Untouchables"?)in place in so many VA's.

Here's hoping that the rumors of the mass retirement among the senior ranks will come to pass muy pronto; it's time for a change!

In the meantime perhaps the best we can do is cast our vote each election day, hunker down, and wait for natural processes to bring an end to this Nuclear Night.

Or better yet, hope that someone with some guts and morals gets into a senior leadership position and moves us all back into the light.

Re: Accountability

Thanks for such a thoughtful comment. I agree with you on just about every count. Management accountability is thory problem. Unlike union leadership, they're not voted in and unlikely to be voted out.

Re: Accountability

As A former union steward I have seen it all, from the indefenseable employee to the inept and corrupt supervisor.
The idea i thought of years ago was to continue working an employee, but reduce their pay for 1-3 days by 50 percent !
As for supervisors that are abusive they should have the same thing, with the exception that after 2 times they be removed as a supervisor and their pay reduced back to the pay they held before promotion to a supervisor.
There are ways to deal with an abusive supervisor, if you do not get results by going to their supervisor or division chief then you must go outside the agency.
There are Inspector generals for most departments and agencies, if not the unions know how to file formal complaints outside the agency.

Re: Revamping Discipline Process

Thanks for your comments -- especially for your support of supervisors who are trying to manage messes that are not of their making. ...and remember, that contract comes up for renegotiation after 2-3 years. Rather than dispair the present, VA and AFGE may want to begin planning for a more sensible future when it comes to disciipline. Management must admit that there are a few rotten bosses in the barrel and the union must admit the same re: its constituents. Then each side should begin working toward the interests of the many instead of the few.

Re: Revamping Discipline Process

I used to work for the VA and I blame upper VA management for the current AFGE CBA. They backed out of negotiations. The master agreement needs to be reduced and all the "partnership" taken out. The discipline process can be drastically reduced. The VA also needs to train their supervisors and managers. If there is good supporting documentation, then the supervisor or manager should have no problem if the take PROMPT action. AFGE also needs to get on board and stop protecting bad employees and sit them down and have a "come to the mountain" meeting with them!