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Total Comments: 11
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Alternate Discipline: A Useful Tool
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How About...
AFRC
Mon May 22, 2006 9:28 AM
Post Reply
...a sample agreement for supervisors?
So much is presumed that the worker is at fault. But supervisors, like workers and everyone else, also have "feet of clay" and are susceptible to their own foibles and missteps too. I think this is the 1 thing all FedSmith posters agree w/.
We live in an imperfect world, and not all employers are w/out their flaws. Maybe by having their own agreement, this would push upper mgt into ensuring that their managers are "up to snuff" on their supervising skills and lead to less turmoil by the workers.
So, Mr Gilson, how about it--let's see a sample alternative-discipline agreement for bosses as well.
After all, if the head of the circus is watching over the clowns, then who's watching over the rest of the circus?
Bad supervisors
SSA
Mon May 22, 2006 12:13 PM
Post Reply
Most of the articles (including Mr. Gilson's) are very informative. But...now that a series of articles has been released re: dealing with problem employees, what about 2-3 similarly helpful articles that could give insight on how employees could deal with 'problem' managers.
Thanks.
Sad Commentaryby Author
DHS
Mon May 22, 2006 12:17 PM
Post Reply
With all the newly desired methods of managment getting their way and seeking routes around unions, why is this site spending so much time trying to give mangement a means, and encouraging labor's acceptance of thier attempts of avoiding negotiations? It seems that the authors at FEDSMITH are trying to soften up labor to managment's desire to broker back room deals, and avoid using the CBA and other established methods of accountability and mechanisms of defense of employee rights. Maybe if your authors would spend a little more time figuring out why most govt agencies turn out not being the "employer of choice" as DHS is not, and why employees wind up not fulfilling their own goals as well as agency and supervisor goals, you might find out why there is discipline issues to start with. It is all about control and power, somthing management has and wants more of.
Alternative Discipline: A useful tool
Department of Veterans Affairs
Mon May 22, 2006 2:06 PM
Post Reply
Gilson: You're tool is useful for the agency, but why would any employee waive all rights, including the right "to complain?" What "sweatshop" were you thinking would adopt your "favorite format?" Maybe you didn't know this in your elite, protected world, but the coal mines closed here in PA decades ago!!!
Re: Alternative Discipline: A useful tool
DOI
Tue May 23, 2006 11:09 AM
Re: Alternative Discipline: A useful tool
AFRC
Wed May 24, 2006 2:48 PM
The whole point of this "useful tool" is, as I said earlier, to lull the worker into a false sense of security. Think of maxxing out your credit cards at Christmas time: you buy the presents and have a nice holiday--til the bills arrive in January.
Whatever action or misdeed that brought about the discipline must be dealt w/immediately. What's the point of forestalling it 1, 2, 3 years longer if you know it's still "out there" waiting to happen? Best to deal w/it, fight it or let it happen so you can deal w/that accordingly.
Problems that "go away" by themselves, have a habit of coming back by themselves too...
I Can't Help...
AFRC
Mon May 22, 2006 3:53 PM
Post Reply
...but feel that perhaps us feds look like we'll buy the Brooklyn Bridge too, if we're willing to "buy into" Mr Gilson's proposed "alternative."
Waiving all rights at this point means "waiving" rights to your job eventually. Why would we want to give up everything just to make things easier for mgt to put the screws to us? They do a pretty good job of that already, for a lot of us...
Alternate Discipline
AFGE Local 3272
Tue May 23, 2006 12:35 PM
Post Reply
Use of alternate discipline sounds nice. I believe it is what we in AFGE intended with our emphasis on progressive discipline in contracts such as the one here in Social Security. However, I have found no interest on the part of management to look at alternate discipline. Instead, they seem to want to use the harshest discipline possigle, such as exemplified in a Table of Penalties for alleged misuse of Agency computer systems. They don't need to use a sledge hammer to drive a thumb tack. Overly harsh discipline hurts morale and any dip in morale affects productivity. We can philosophize all we want about alternative discipline but unless we get a change in management attitude, all the talk is for naught.
Loco
FAA
Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:41 AM
Post Reply
You would have to be crazy to surrender all protections that serve to balance the power. My agency wants to suspend me, they would only offer me alternative discipline to their benefit. I think if they were sure the suspension would stick, I would then not be offered alternative discipline. I accept this cowards surrender, then they have me under their thumb indefinitely. If you did something to deserve suspension, accept it. If not fight with all the protections afforded the federal employee.