Sick leave is "earned" just as your salary is earned, so I say you earned it, you can't take it with you as a FERS employee, so USE IT !!!!!!!!!!
Re: sick leave
ER specialist fed agency Mon Jan 8, 2007 9:07 AM
What aren't you understanding about the law? You may not agree with it, but that doesn't equate to the law not existing. You will jeopardize and likely lose your job if you don't accept the law for what it is. Sick leave abuse is the easiest way to lose a job - is it really worth it?
Re: sick leave
HR Specialist dod Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:19 AM
SSA, when you "use" your sick leave when you aren't sick just because it's there, do you lie to your supervisor about why you aren't reporting to work?
Re: sick leave
Admin Assistant DOS Mon Jan 8, 2007 12:08 PM
To Claims Authorizor,
Sick leave is not earned like Annual Leave. it is an entitlement.
It belongs to the USG and is for your use provided you are sick. Since the Sick Leave is not yours to give away it cannot be donated. It is an entitlement owned by the government therefore requlated by the government. You notice there is nothing in writing that tells you how to use Annual Leave. That is because you own the annual leave. Sick leave however is owned by the USG therefore they can put restrictions on it like documentation, abuse etc.. People need to understand that Sick Leave is not earned by given to employees as an entitlement
Re: sick leave
Officer in Charge ICE Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:09 AM
The "ER Specialist" who claimed that "sick leave abuse is the easiest way to lose a job" can't be too much of an ER specialist.
There are several other pecadillos --oh, fraud, for example - that jeopardize an employee's job. I've yet to fire an employee for SL abuse. I've placed many on leave restriction.
Anyhow, no manager should allow any kind of leave abuse. However, FERS should be in the same boat--sick leave-wise--that CSRS is.
I don't like the tone of this series
NA DoD Mon Jan 8, 2007 9:01 AM
If this site is really "for the informed fed" why concentrate on material that is negative or anti-worker. I think this brings down this site.
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
HR Specialist civilian agency Mon Jan 8, 2007 9:21 AM
While some people do not like hearing what could be called "bad news", I think the author has done a service for many federal employees. Any federal employee who thinks he or she can abuse sick leave and not suffer any consequences could find a career (or paycheck) in disrepair. "For the informed fed" should not mean just reciting awards or good news; it also means telling people what they should know.
From some of the comments on this and the previous article, it is obviously a topic that many people do not know much about and some have probably been abusing leave and subjecting themselves to disciplinary action without understanding the potential consequences.
I hope the author and fedsmith will keep up the good work of providing useful information--even if some do not iike to hear it.
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
L&ER consultant self-employed Mon Jan 8, 2007 9:31 AM
Ah, the poor, long-suffering Federal employee! Only five plus weeks of annual leave, and if your working a 5-4-9 schedule, another 5 plus weeks off. Ten holidays (unless a President dies). That's onlt sixty-two days off a year and mean old Bob Gilson trying to tell you you can't use your thirteen days of sick leave whenever you want! All this for a lousy median Washington salary of $86000+. I think you should all run off to the private sector where they love employees who call in every Monday on sick leave and whine to "work" from home two days a week! Pathetic.
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
HR Specialist Federal Agency Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:16 AM
To L&ER Consultant...and other non-Feds - all Federal employees are not leave abusers nor are we whiners. While I am in CSRS, I can see benefits to both systems. For one, I believe that the demise of CSRS has resulted in the government having problems in recruiting - with FERS being so portable folks are not spending their entire careers in the govt.
As for the leave, everyone does not get 5 weeks of annual leave. Annual leave is earned based on the number of years of service an employee has. After spending 30 plus years working for the Federal government, I don't take for granted my great benefits package nor do I abuse it. I have annual leave banked and well over 1,000 hours of sick leave. Technically, I don't get paid for my sick leave when I retire, it is used to determine the final length of service in the Federal government which might equate to 5 dollars extra in my annuity check after taxes.
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
Analyst Not a consultant Mon Jan 8, 2007 1:38 PM
L&ER consultant give me a break. If we have it so great why don't you get a job with the feds. I have a feeling that since you're posting on a federal blog you are trying to do just that.
I worked for a consultant for years, and the majority of people left there to work for the governement sector. The consultants I worked for enforced mandatory 50 hour work weeks and could care less if we needed to care for children family etc.. All that mattered was making money to the consultant...at the expense of the sanity of all the employees. And the only people who moved up were the spineless ones that never challlenged management's ideas.
So as hard working as I can see you think you are I would never want to trade places. And I can tell you I work harder for the federal govt than I would ever for a consultant because I APPRECIATE an employer that cares about and takes care of me and my family. Its hard to work for places you don't respect.
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
L&ER consultant self-employed Mon Jan 8, 2007 2:41 PM
Analyst -- actually I'm a retired SES, so I'm well aware of the benefits of the Federal government. The difference between myself and many of the other posters on this site is that I didn't spend my career whining as to how bad I had it.
FERS Dilemma
Engineer DON Mon Jan 8, 2007 9:15 AM
Oh, come on now. FERS people have only two choices with the S/L that they have earned - USE IT or LOSE IT. What would you do? The system is rigged to force FERS people into becoming what the author of this article calls S/L Abusers. If I want to have zero hours of S/L on my earliest retirement date I have to start using over 200 hours per year.
Re: FERS Dilemma
IT Specialist SSA Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:06 AM
The choice is not between use it or lose it. The choice is between honesty and dishonesty.
Re: FERS Dilemma
Support Services Specialist DOE Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:15 AM
You've hit the mark right on. The FERS policy on retirement and SL eventually drives EVERYONE who is lucky enough to stay healty too become abusers. Its an engineered-in factor. The policy makers knew it when they purposely designed it out. Why else would they NOT include an incentive to save SL as in the CSRS?
Re: FERS Dilemma
Civilian Navy Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:01 AM
Stop the whining about the FERS/SL issue. I'm CSRS and don't get matching funds on my TSP contributions. I'm not whining about that! SL is only to be used when you are incapacitated due to illness/injury, medical appts, family use, etc. Otherwise, it is not a blank check to be used when you feel like. Like it or not it is insurance and when you don't make a claim on your insurance policy, your premiums are not returned. You're entitled to earn it, not use it, unless for a reason as stated above.
Donating Sick Leave
Analyst IRS Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:01 AM
FERS employees don't get paid for their sick leave when they retire, yet people like me cannot donate this type of sick leave to others within our agency who need sick leave. We can only donate ordinary leave to those who need it for extended illnesses. Checking our Employee Suggestion program, many have submitted this as an issue, but the only responses have been "Denied." No explanation whatsoever. So much for employee satisfaction.
Re: Donating Sick Leave
Human Resources Specialist Federal Agency Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:17 PM
The reason this suggestion has been denied is that making the change would require a change in the law. It is not something that can be done administratively.
Sick Leave usage
claims authorizer SSA Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:13 AM
I'd like to know how many of you staunch "law abiders" have taken some sick time for a doctor's appt. and not returned to work after your appt was over. Pleeeease.
Re: Sick Leave usage
Engineer DON Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:49 AM
I did....just yesterday in fact. And why did I not return to work? Because it didn't make sense to me to drive 25 minutes back to work so I could work the remaining 30 - 45 minutes of my normal work day.
If that makes me an abuser then so be it.
Re: Sick Leave usage
hr specialist nasa Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:40 PM
I've done exactly that, for the same reason as Engineer/DON. That's why I try to schedule my dr appts for first thing in the morning or late enough in the day to offset that situation. And, oh, by the way, the USG has gotten plenty of free time out of me, since I rarely leave on time, and ususally it's a good 30 minutes or more after my official "quitting" time, and I don't claim any kind of comp time unless it's at least a full hour.
Re: Sick Leave usage
Support HEALTH CARE Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:27 PM
I applaud this writer. I understand some abuses are worse than others, but dishonest is dishonest, regardless how seemingly small the infraction. Let he who is without sin... People in glass houses... etc.
There's something odoriferous here
Former Fed Self-Employed Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:46 AM
I know that folks who call in sick when they're feeling fine are lying to their bosses and cheating. I can also understand the "use or lose" view of S/L accumulation. What troubles me is the high-handed tone of the author and commentators from the HR community.
You're sense of right vs. wrong, legal vs. illegal reminds me of preachers who rail against gays... and then turn out to be gay. Or drivers who go at exactly the speed limit in the left lane and are content to have those of us who exceed the limit back up behind them.
The author must be a hard worker, but has he never "over-estimated" his hours/expenses to a client, chosen to exceed the speed limit, or fudged an answer to a question? Why the obsession with strict adherence and catching offenders?
I've called in when I wasn't sick. I lied to my boss. I also loved my job and was held in high esteem. Laws and rules aren't people. These articles would be better if the black and white also entertained shades of gray.
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
Career Counselor Treasury Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:16 AM
I love these people who think they are holier then the rest. I can just imagine this author speeding on the roadways to and from work once in a while, or docking himself the ten or fifteen minutes he may have been late or stuck in traffic. They are content to tell others how to behave in a certain context. Yet in the context of their lives they wonder off the ethical fine line when it's in their best interest...This article is a joke. Why not address all the elements of the Code of Conduct Booklet in your articles and see how many employee's you get reading your stuff, NOT!
Re: Re: I don't like the tone of this series
Supervisor DHS Tue Jan 9, 2007 11:26 AM
When SES heads of offices take 6 months of sick leave in conjuction with retirement, it is hard for the a front line supervisor to prevent sick leave abuse among retiring employees.
However, as a soon to retire employee, I think back to the many times that I did show up for work due to "Mission Critical" obligations when taking sick leave was totally justifiable and legal. I then ask myself, was I stupid for putting the job before myself?
Should I have told my supervisor back then, sorry I'm on sick leave and let months of work go to waste?
Is my "reward" for putting the job first now to be called a dishonest sick leave abuser if I take a "mental health day" after over 32 years of service?
When I was younger and had to take time for doctors appointments, I would if all possible schedule them for federal holidays (like MLK Jr Day) when clinics were open and it would not be detrimental to my work. Was I wrong?
Just call me "sucker" from now on.
Negativity
Plans Officer Department of the Army Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:27 AM
After reading this article, anyone not familiar with Federal Employees would automatically assume that abuse is rampant within the work-force. I strongly disagree. I not only do not abuse sick-leave, I work additional hours and Overtime is never an option. I am not alone in these work habits. I am a professional as are my co-workers. For reasons I do not understand, it is always easier for some people to be negative.
Re: Negativity
manager interior Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:38 AM
Actually, from reading the comments to the article, it sounds like abuse is rampant within the workforce. It is obvious that there is a lot of rationalizing going on as to why it is okay to ignore the federal regulations on sick leave.
The response of some people is to complain that the author is "holier than thou." Perhaps there real message is "shoot the messenger; I don't like the message."
Re: Negativity
Analyst Fed Mon Jan 8, 2007 1:47 PM
I think I have to agree with the "holier than thou" theory here. Are we going to start a clock on every smoker and time how long they are outside. Maybe we need a sign in sheet for the bathroom too, wouldn't want anyone reading the paper for 15 minutes.
While you can get hung up on a million different things the bottom line is getting your work done, getting it done on time and doing a good job. If someone isn't doing this, then THAT is the time to start figuring out what abuses may be going on, but not before that.
Re: Negativity
IT specialist DoD Mon Jan 8, 2007 3:03 PM
The comments do cast a very negative impression of federal employees on this and some other articles. I'm sure not all federal employees are whiners and complainers who cannot be content with their generous salary and benefits, but you sure don't get that impression in many of these comments.
Re: Negativity
AF Tech, FEDERAL WORKER FAA Tue Jan 9, 2007 10:19 AM
I know there are a lot of FED workers who are very dedicated. I see those who abuse there A/L, and S/L. Keeping a balance of about 8 hours a week, and then burning it up to a balance of zero. Some have been promoted to the next pay band, and rub it in our faces. My supervisor complains that I am always using my sick leave, and everytime I get a note from the DR. It's legit everytime. Just recently talked with a person retiringfrom ATCT, CSRS, and he said that I as FERS can sell my S/L back for $.40 on the dollar, at retirment time. Any truth in that? As far as being dedicated, I regularly spend a 1/2 hour at the end of the work day beyond my shift. I do like my job, and I don't charge for O/T. Summing it up, S/L is an insurance policy, that I view as an advantage for a long term illness. I do need to build mine back up, but what's it worth when I retire? I wish it were worth something? It's my choice to work here, nobody forced me, or you! Be happy!
Re: Negativity
SOA MSA Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:38 PM
I extremely agree with Analyst Fed's comments. Getting the job done is what counts. Having employees account for every minute of the day would be absured.
Accusations of alleged sick Leave "abuse" are very subjective and are about 99.9% impossible to actually prove unless the employee is followed every minute of the day and night and is caught doing things that a "well" person would be doing.
Sick Leave
Human Resources Specialist (Employee Relations) Department of Treasury Mon Jan 8, 2007 12:50 PM
Whether one is taking sick leave for other than illness or for chronic disease, one will run out of sick leave fairly quickly.
As a long-term chronically ill employee whose hospitalizations and illnesses have resulted in LWOP situations, loss of pay has had a significant effect on my household finances. Sick leave is not a perquisite and those who feel justified in using it for other than its intended purposes should hope that they never become chronically ill or have a lengthy illness. It makes far more sense to save one's sick leave in anticipation of a catastrophic illness, rather than nickel and dime it away because of dissatisfaction with one's retirement system. We all are voluntarily bound to certain terms of employment, rather than self-employed, and should also consider the impact of our absences on our coroworkers and peers. Thanks for the series.
Re: Sick Leave
Nameless, faceless, hardworking nobody DOD Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:58 AM
I have had real issues that have depleted my sick leave. Outside government my friends had state disability to help cover that time that required my own leave. I have kept up my workload, accepted that the disability and chronic illness that resulted have kept me from certain promotions, still earned an excellent reputation for hard and creative work, and keep a sick leave balance that would cause me to look suspicious. Every so often I am required (usually by some new supervisor trying to look tough but didn't actually READ my record or he would know,) to prove all my sick leave. I have also had a supervisor, a couple levels above my immediate supv. leak details of my medical condition hoping the hassle I then got from several people would drive me off. It must have galled him when I got letters of appreciation from my various customers.
Abuse happens on both sides of the equation.
I'm glad that the vast majority are simply honest people doing the best they can.
Re: Sick Leave
Human Resources Specialist (Employee Relations) Department of Treasury Tue Jan 9, 2007 12:29 PM
I agree. I have had my share of poor managers who regard chronic illness as personal failing and I work to outproduce my coworkers to compensate in some way for my absences. However, the defiintion of sick leave is spelled out by OPM, agency guidance and regulations, etc. Either one lobbies through one's elected representatives or union for change in the interpretation of sick leave or accepts the current definition as a term of employment. Carping about the conditions of one's employment which one accepted when one became employed with the government doesn't change anything. I had more generous benefits in the private sector, but, frankly, in times of economic uncertainty, I am glad to be working for the government. There are trade-offs we make in working for any employer and I am surprised that some appear to be astonished that sick leave is not the same as annual leave and cannot be used in the same way.
Re: Sick Leave
Human Resources Specialist (Employee Relations) Department of Treasury Tue Jan 9, 2007 12:39 PM
As an addendum, I would argue that those of us who are chronicaly ill have had to understand and work with the current definition of sick leave in order to remain employed. Several years ago a coworker of mine thought our manager's request for medical documentation overly intrusive. While I agreed with him, I complied with the same supervisor's request for my own situation. My coworker did not and is now an ex-employee. As someone who is vulnerable in this area, I appreciate the author's frank discussion of the issue. It is all too easy to find oneself out of a job when one is focusing only on one's entitlements, rather than one's responibilities. I do not see Congress revisitng this issue. Rightly or wrongly, there are too many taxpayers who believe that Federal employmees are overpaid and have too many benefits. Moreover, such an attitude has been fostered by so many politiicans for so long that facts no longer matter.
Re: Sick Leave
Support HEALTH CARE Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:23 PM
I was dismayed to read an article here recently about an gov't employee that was dismissed due to a chronic problem with his leg, I believe. The article stated he'd missed every Wed for a year, which certainly does have an adverse effect on an agency, but I was surprised he could be fired. I understand he went to a doctor and was restricted in his duties and that they couldn't find another position for him so he was let go. I really didn't think they could do that.
Sick Leave Options
Program Analyst DoD Mon Jan 8, 2007 2:08 PM
I can't argue with informing employees about the rights and wrongs of sick leave. All too often the excuse is "I didn't know.", or "No one told me!". I've accumulated a nice bunch of hours and use it only as it was meant to be. I like my job and I like the benfits too much to blow it for a lousy day off.
Having said that, I think the regs need to be changed. I earned and accumulated that time. I should be able to donate it to those in need, or put it in a pool when I retire so that folks with illnesses or in need of treatment can use it. It's not right to strip it away so that no one ever sees benefit from it except Uncle Sam.
Re: Sick Leave Options
Program Specialist CNCS Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:06 AM
I would love to see the regs changed to allow employees to donate sick leave to other employees in need, and/or in the case of our agency, to the Leave Bank. We have had long-time employees say they'd willingly donate to the Leave Bank if they could use their sick leave instead of annual leave.
I also want to say that people NOT taking sick leave and coming in with colds and the flu is a problem when the work atmosphere is so strict or supervisors are uninformed. You don't need a doctor's note for sick leave unless it's over 3 days but try telling that to some of our supervisors. I'm not going to the doctor for a cold I can treat at home but I don't want to come in and get everyone else sick. But it happens all the time.
Is my office illegal?
Forester USDA FS Mon Jan 8, 2007 2:20 PM
The paragraph on "patterns of leave usage" got me wondering about the ethical condition of my office. Our records show that 40 percent of all sick leave is used on Mondays and Fridays. Hmmm.
Re: Is my office illegal?
HRS/ER DOD Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:47 AM
Hmm... 40% of the work week is when your employees are using 40% of their sick leave? Hmm indeed.
Re: Is my office illegal?
HR Admin DoD Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:48 AM
If 40% of sick leave is used on Fridays and Mondays, then 60% if used on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday -- or about 20% each day.
Hmm . . . sounds about right.
Re: Is my office illegal?
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:56 AM
I purposely try and plan appointments for either first thing Monday or last thing Friday. Why? Least impact on my workload.
While critically ill I needed injections once a week. I could go Mon, Wed, or Fri. I often had a reaction that left me ill through the next day. Soo, I chose Fri. that I would be ill on my own time.
My (idiotically controlling) supv. tried to discipline me for leave abuse. She knew I was ill. She knew I was getting treatment. She didn't like that dared work and have an illness. It didn't matter to her that I worked a workload comparable to a solid performer in the next higher grade and did it to the highest standard. Being ill forced me to greater organization and performance.
Her right to get doctor's notes. But she looked like a fool when she tried to have me disciplined. Of course, her best employees, me included, took our first opportunities to move on. Shame, it was otherwise a good job.
Same agenda as the inflated salaries police
Software Engineer US Army Mon Jan 8, 2007 3:04 PM
These are the same folks that say we are making too much money. Most of us are being paid below our civilian counterparts, except for in Washington DC where they do these surveys. FERS was designed to save the government money. So, they made Sick Leave "use or loose" thinking they could stick us. It backfired! Who could be surprised by that outcome? The solution is to allow Sick Leave to be donated to others that really need it (serious medical conditions), or allow some token benefit at retirement similar to CSRS, maybe a combination of both. That would be a simple fix that would benefit everyone including the government. Gee, an incentive to fix the problem, no that can't work, has to be complicated and illogical for it to be a government approved solution.
Re: Same agenda as the inflated salaries police
Accountant DOD Mon Jan 8, 2007 3:43 PM
Great response, totally agree. The current FERS S/L policy goes against basic human nature. It is doomed to failure.
Re: Same agenda as the inflated salaries police
Worker Navy Tue Jan 9, 2007 1:03 PM
Sorry, my basic human nature does not allow me to lie, cheat and steal. Abusing sick leave is just that. You can justify it all you want, but it's stealing just the same. The commentors who whine about FERS and "everybody else does it" show the non-Feds who we (you) really are. How do you expect your children to follow your rules when you show them that circumventing them is okay? What a bunch of babies!
Ritalin - a commonly abused prescription drug
ESA DFAS Mon Jan 8, 2007 4:08 PM
As an federal employee with ADHD, which is recognized by the ADA, I know that Ritalin saved my life!
I've worked for the Federal Government for 29 years.
Get your facts straight before you start writing.
Re: Ritalin - a commonly abused prescription drug
HR Specialist civilian Mon Jan 8, 2007 4:47 PM
The fact that Ritalin helps some people does not mean that it is not abused. It is a commonly abused drug. I think you over-reacted based on your personal experience. The author is correct.
Re: Ritalin - a commonly abused prescription drug
Human Resources Specialist (Employee Relations) Department of Treasury Tue Jan 9, 2007 12:47 PM
You have misinterpreted the author's intention. He is merely citing those drugs which if not used properly may result in addicition and are often misused, rather than defining all prescription drug users as addicts. We live in a society in which pharmaceutical companies advertise regularly on television with drugs to alleviate any and all medical problem and our current approach to medicine treats the symptoms theorugh medication more often than it detects and treats the cause. As someone who uses pain medication daily under doctor's supervision, I have also dealt with employee prescription abuse in conduct cases and take no offense that my medication is cited by the author. The references he cites are worth reading.
Re: Ritalin - a commonly abused prescription drug
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:00 AM
Who decides if it is abuse? The problem with blanket statements is that some supervisor reads that ritalin, or vicodin, or ativan, or, or ,or, is an abused drug. Finds out that one of his employees takes it, makes assumptions, and destroys a career.
Such blanket statements need to be carefully spoken because most people are not abusing.
A Generational Component?
Federal Worker Mon Jan 8, 2007 5:32 PM
From reading all the comments it seems you could loosely group comments into 2 groups. One with a very strict interpretation of sick leave and others with a more liberal interpretation of what a sick day entails (use for mental health days, more of a "use or lose "mentality).
Could it be possible that there is a generational component to these responses. I know with many issues in the office this exists (technology being the most obvious and glaring example). I would assume that it would be no different here. My guess would be the younger "Gen Y" generation may favor the more "liberal" interpretation, while the older baby boomers may tend to see the very strict interpretation.
I'm not taking the side of either interpretation...but rather wondering if these forces are at work. If they are it will have a large influence on how sick leave is utilized over the coming years as a large amount of the federal workforce is expected to retire.
Re: A Generational Component?
ES EPA Tue Jan 9, 2007 6:22 AM
True. Gens Y and X are working with and for the baby-boomers. That alone should qualify us for "mental health days".
Re: A Generational Component?
HR Specialist Federal Agency Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:02 AM
Or ES, EPA, maybe the baby-boomers working with Gen X & Y should give the boomers more of a reason to take off -- X & Y think the world of work should revolve around them rather than the business. Look around - the government is bowing down and giving away the show (e.g., flexible workplace, alternative work schedules) to accommodate people and I'm beginning to wonder if and when any work gets done in the government.
As a boomer, I know I was taught family and ethical values and to not expect the world to stop because I walk in the door...
Re: A Generational Component?
Specialist Fed Tue Jan 9, 2007 10:31 AM
Blanket statements like "X&Y think the world of work should revolve around them" are one of the reasons for the attitudes some of those in Gen X and Y may have towards baby boomers. Its a two way street. Certainly times have changed, but there are plenty of X & Y's that have a great work ethic. They just may have different ways of approaching the work and different expectations from their employer. It happens every generation and it is a good thing for change and innovation and ultimately the evolution of the workplace.
I definitely see that attitude at my workplace and it only helps to further the divide.
Re: A Generational Component?
HR Specialist Federal Agency Tue Jan 9, 2007 11:55 AM
So Specialist, Fed, I guess it was okay for ES, EPA to make this blanket statement knocking baby-boomers:
True. Gens Y and X are working with and for the baby-boomers. That alone should qualify us for "mental health days".
My attitude about dealing with individuals from other generations is fine until they start dictating that we have to do what they want or they'll leave or complain.
It is a two-way street and even gen x and y group needs to learn to work with others too.
Re: A Generational Component?
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:01 AM
(Amused)
So, if you are diagnosed with a mood or other mental disorder, you can take a "mental health" day?
But otherwise, burn-out, stress, headaches, etc, don't qualify?
Need to get the abuse under control
Civil Engineer (retired) USFS Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:42 PM
Need S/L Police. "Hang" a few offenders then see if anyone in FERS
even takes sick leave. This could be one more good job for all those contencious supervisors to whom no one can at work! It is those kind of supervisors workers only hope will abuse S/L themselves and just stay away.
Complaining about 'use or lose' sick leave
HR specialist retired Tue Jan 9, 2007 11:05 AM
ENOUGH! If the writers who don't like the laws about sick leave (including those that don't allow you to donate it), then do something about it. It literally takes an act of Congress to change these rules, so write your congressional representatives. Drop the "woe is me" approach, it's annoying, unproductive, and embarrassing. And, as a CSRS retiree, I would gladly have traded my banked sick leave for matching TSP funds. The grass is always greener...as the old saw goes.
Re: Complaining about 'use or lose' sick leave
Federal Employee DOJ Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:22 PM
I have written to my congressman and senator, but to no avail. I would be pleased if we received anything for the leave. I plan to retire in less than four years and will have in excess of 2,100 hours on the books barring a serious injury or illness that prohibits me from working. Those of us who save our S/L instead of using it at will are few and far between. I know of co-workers who have 15-20 years on the job without having been ill or injured and they have less than 100 hours of S/L. And guess what, no type of disciplinary action has ever been taken. The VLTP is a good thing when it's used appropriately, but many staff see how easy it is to get leave donated, so they're burning up their S/L and will go the route of VLTP should they ever have an extended illness and are out of S/L. Something has to change or my agency is not going to have staff available in the next few years to man the ship because everyone will be burning S/L. Why not? Nothing is currently being done to abusers.
Abusers everywhere
Supervisor DHS Tue Jan 9, 2007 11:31 AM
I am amused that those legalists who are on their high horses about sick leave abuse wrote comments during the work day on non-break times!
I suggest before anyone talks about someone else's misdeeds, they look in the mirror.
And by the way, I am on lunch break!
Re: Abusers everywhere
Worker Navy Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:08 AM
Supervisor DHS--And what makes you think we're not? Here's your ladder to climb down.
FERS
Admin Asst Fed Agency Tue Jan 9, 2007 12:04 PM
I am under the CSRS retirement system. As such I do not have matching funds to my TSP contributions, nor am I able to receive full Social Security benefits (I have the required quarters). I will be penalized when I apply (Windfall Elim). There are good and bad parts of each system. We have to live with the laws as they are presently written or as "Complaining about use or lose sick" said write your congressman or congresswomen and try to get the law changed. I've worked in the private sector and to tell you the truth the Federal Employee's benefits are outstanding.
If you don't believe that then you need to work on the outside and get a dose of reality. We should consider ourselves very fortunate to have what we have. I know I am.
Sick Leave
Normal Government Employee VA Tue Jan 9, 2007 12:08 PM
In our agency a Dr.'s slip is only required for more than 3 consecutative days of sick leave; so, it's your word against your boss as to whether or not you were actually sick.
In the absence the presentation of a fradulent medical statement, this issue is not even worth this discussion.
Positive View of FERS S/L Reform
Analyst DoD Tue Jan 9, 2007 3:55 PM
Without denying that S/L abuse exists, consider the following. S/L use is high the year before retirement at least partly because both illness and disability increase at older ages. This is to be expected and is one reason retirement benefits were implemented in the early 1900s. An older, illness-prone employee must make a judgement as to whether they should voluntarily retire or make perfectly legal and ethical use of their earned S/L. A cash out option for FERS S/L would be a positive for the government, allowing for better workload management and for the individual. Win-Win. Or would the author rather go on whining about unethical feds?
Sick Leave
Medical Biller VA MED CENTER Tue Jan 9, 2007 4:09 PM
Since there has always been abuse with SL, I would like to offer a suggestion. Instead of having AL and SL just go with PTO (paid time off) hours. Because there's a lot that goes on with especially the sick leave hours. For example, supervisor have let employees use their sick leave to save the vacation hours either for extended vacations or for one who is getting ready to retire so their retirement hours will extend their retirement time. So know matter what you do seems like there's going to be an abuse verses illeagal situations going on.
sick leave
Retired Engineer VA Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:18 AM
Nothing like Congress to create a management nightmare re: Sick Leave. How often does someone use all their leave on a monthly/weekly basis and have a severe illness requiring "donated leave". It is hard to be sympathetic when you have to provide the backup support for the "missing" individual to get the job done when they're out fishing (oops, I mean sick)
Re: sick leave
Worker Navy Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:17 PM
Don't blame leave abuse on Congress. We all have a choice. Follow the rules, and in most cases, you'll have all the leave you need in case of an emergency. I find that employees in my agency will only donate to the frugal employee who suffers a catastrophic emergency and ends up depleting their leave. The abusers in the leave transfer program never get an hour. While I don't know the real reason for not allowing us to donate our sick leave, I would guess it's because we could suffer an unforeseen medical emergency and then not have the leave to cover ourselves. It's insurance and we should treat it that way.
Sick Leave Usage
Boss (on paper) DHS Law Enforcement Officer Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:59 AM
I have mandatory retirement at age 57 because someone thinks that I won't be physically up to standards. So if I use Sick Leave that I banked during my younger days to go to the more frequent doctors appointments and days when I am incapacitated, it is not a problem.
But is it Sick Leave abuse for me to take a day of Sick Leave after putting in a 24 hour day on the job? The firearms regs require 8 hours of sleep after 24 hours of on duty. So am I requried to take Annual Leave the day after or is Sick Leave justifiable?
In Reality, I guess I could lock up my gun and just do paperwork for the next ten hours (making me on duty for 34 hours straight), but I am not sure how good of a job I would do.
How did OPM or Congress calculate that the amount of sick leave earned should be 4 hours every two weeks? Is that the average usage or a figure out of the hat?
Sick Leave Usage
Eligible to Retire ICE Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:05 AM
Has there ever been a case where an eligible to retire employee was punished for sick leave abuse?
As for me, just before I retire I am going to take my 12 weeks of sick leave (Family Medical Leave Act for Adoption) and go to Paris to interview French Waitresses for potential adoption purposes!
Totally legal and proper. I will also use my Frequent Flyer miles and hotel points (earned on government TDYs) for the airfare and hotel stays!
So shame on all you Sick Leave abusers who take "mental health days!"
Re: Sick Leave Usage
Also able to retire DOL Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:51 AM
Yes it is possible to terminate or punish an employee able to retire for (assumed) sick leave abuse...just ask DOL employees with failing health (CSRS or FERS) in the last year or so.
By the way I also have 35+ years of service and I can't tell you how many times during those years that I've been on sick leave, or annual leave for that matter, and a supervisor call my home to ask a question on a case or had an administrative assistant call to ask a question. The supervisor figured if I was on paid time regardless of whether it was sick leave or annual leave, they had a right to contact me at home.
Re: Sick Leave Usage
ATSS FAA Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:14 PM
I once had a manager tell me he would "take action" against
someone (IN CSRS) who was trying to balance out their sick leave before they retire. Because any sick leave over a full month is lost. (IE: 9 months 10 days goes back to 9 months additional service for retirement) Well guess what? Now that he is about to retire, he is using his. I guess it depends on which boat your in.
By the way, can't you retire faster than any action taken
will take if you are eligible?
sick leave patterns
ATCS FAA Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:34 AM
I am in CSRS and still have a small SL cushion after a serious personal illness and significant family leave for caregiving. I am now healthy and out of the caregiving situation, but have lots of doctor appointments for followup care and new issues (I AM getting older).
It appears that the only time to schedule Dr. appointments that do not fall into patterns is every other Wednesday that doesn't follow a Tuesday payday. Hmm... wouldn't that be a pattern in itself?
I guess I'm already setting a pattern though, since several of my doctors ONLY see patients on Mondays and Fridays. Oh well, at least I can document it, if needed.
Sick Leave Abuse
Co-President, IFPTE Local 128 Bureau of Reclamation Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:43 AM
In management/employee relations, I see more and more use of sick leave in the area of stress. Although stress is not part of the "medical sick leave" picture it certainly should be given serious consideration. I've noticed that both supervisor and supordinate lose luster during tough times. I don't know if studies have been conducted on the affects of stress but I for one am a believer that stress takes a toll. I don't think heart attacks are as much a leading cause of death as is stress. Its a difficult call in the arena of sick leave for a person truly stressed out.
Re: Sick Leave Abuse
Air Traffic Control Maintenance Chief DOD Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:33 AM
It is truely amazing that this issue of using sick leave for stress related issues has finally been brought up. I am not sure about other agencies, but within the DOD, both military and civilian personnel are now required to take an annual training course pertaining to recognizing suicidal intentions within ouorselves and fellow employees. If sick leave cannot be used for stress related issues, then all the training in the world is for not. As a supervisor, I rarely question SL unless it goes beyond 3 consecutive days, at which time you are "required" some documentation to justify your usage. In my opinion and in many many medical studies that the nations workforce will see a sharp rise in SL usage because of stress related issues. So someone has to bend.
Leave Abuse
A Task-Oriented Analyst Treasury Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:09 AM
I have read this string of comments, and have to laugh at those that lay blame, without walking a mile in the shoes of those of us who work to achieve in exemplary fashion each of the goals we set to ourselves during not only the day at work, but at home, in the community, in the church, etc. Our dedication is for naught, it seems, when compared to the 'black and white' philosophies of some of the 'do as I say' commentors. The only thing I have to say is this: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Appears that the 'by the book' spewers above walk on water, no? Give me a break! You should be ashamed of yourselves! Abuse comes in the form of worse things than calling in sick to care for someone, or even something as horrendously viewed as a mental health day! Abuse of leave comes in the form of not only being out (when not sick, etc.) but while in the office, COLLECTING A CHECK AND NOT DOING THE JOB FOR WHICH YOUR EMPLOYER IS PAYING YOU A SALARY TO DO! Loafing is a sin!
Re: Leave Abuse
ER Navy Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:40 AM
Laugh all you want. I am neither a "spewer" nor do I "walk on water." But, I do follow the rules; plain and simple. For those that feel compelled to excuse their way out following the rules, go ahead, but don't complain that Congress set them up or the rules are "stupid." Complain to your congressmen and senators who have the power to change the rules. In the meantime, FOLLOW THE RULES OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES. Didn't your mommies ever tell you that?!
No one is saying don't use your leave. The point is, don't abuse it.
Sick leave is an insurance policy
CSRS Employee DON Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:16 AM
It is my understanding that as a Federal Employee, you are not entitled to State Disability. Unless you carry additional disability insurance, if you need time off to recuperate from a severe illness or even the birth of a child, you are at the mercy of your leave balances and the good nature of your co-workers who MAY donate some leave. That is the greatest incentive of all not to abuse your sick leave. I don't know about you...but I need my paycheck.
Sick Leave
Logistics DOD Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:00 AM
It's yours take it as required. We don't get bonuses or at a boys for doing a good job. But if you run out and you have depleted your account .........that's on you.
Sick leave abuse
Staff Nurse VA Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:24 PM
Oh cry me a river. I'll use my sick time as PTO when I feel like it. Due to chronic staffing shortages and absurd vacation scheduling policies for my particular floor, many of the least senior nurses don't get the opportunity for vacations or scheduled days off. Yet we are the most likely to be mandated to work OT.
Re: Sick leave abuse
HR Specialist Federal Agency Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:24 AM
And what happens to your annual leave? Are you losing it? My guess is you are using it and also abusing your sick leave.
Re: Sick leave abuse
Physician DOD Mon Apr 7, 2008 8:21 PM
When I was with VA, sick leave abuse by nursing was exemplyfied by the the Nurse above. The people victimized were those nurses left to do the extra work because of the "sick" nurses. (And, of course, the patients)
Physicians in my department also abused sick leave. These were a combination of FMG's indentured by their VISA requirements, and the typical federally entitled minded physicians. (Couldn't make it in private practice)
Prior to my leaving, I was in a supervisory role and could do little about the one or two days here and there taken by these "professionals." I had more sick leave accumulated in four years than the rest of the entire department combined. (four additional physicians)
VA is "really something."
Glad to Have Sick Leave
Security DA Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:54 PM
After spending close to 4 yrs as a Fed employee, I recently had the joy of having my second child earlier this year. If I did not have enough S&A/L combined saved up to take the time off to go to monthly (if not more) dr appts and six weeks for maternity leave I would have gone in the LWOP status. Being the breadwinner in my family, if I did not get my paycheck my family would not get the essential items they need. Thankfully, I and my new son did not have any health problems afterward that would have caused me to miss work otherwise I would be in a world of hurt and hoping for leave donations I may never receive. Now I am in the process of rebuilding my S&A/L balance back-up in case unforeseen future events cause me to miss work for long periods of time. I have supervisors put employees on S/Lrestrictions until they have a certain amount of hours in their balance, because S/L is suppose to be there just in case you really do get sick/injuried.
Good for the Goose...
Union Officer DOD Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:26 PM
As a union official I'll stand beside the supervisor and beg my members to not abuse their sick leave. But that only goes so far when the supervisor has an attendance issue or is differential in their treatment of employees suspected of abusing sick leave. If you can't or won't take action against a friend or yourself, then don't expect the subordinate to act any different.
I my profession we are emergency essential with a minimum on-duty staffing level. When one calls in sick another gets to stay at work and not go home at the end of their shift. So sick leave abuse hurts other employees and we must police ourselves.
With that said, why do my members use (or abuse) sick leave; could it be the 72 hr shifts (yes, 72 hrs straight) or the lack of available leave spots, the fact that retention is in the dumps? I don't know but I am certain that it is a dynamic situation that will take labor and management to correct. Labor can't do it alone & management's iron fist doesn't help
SL
government employee spouse ICE Tue Feb 5, 2008 7:16 PM
How is it that a supervisor can complain about an employee taking a "mental health day" when during the first 90 days of the fiscal year that same employee was TDY for 58 of those days. Yet this same supervisor was heard at a "party" bragging about how he was enjoying the new big screen TV at the office and not having to go TDY. It's great to be a supervisor when there is no one to supervise. Go figure.
sick leave abuse?
ArmyCiv DoD Sat Apr 5, 2008 3:39 PM
I'm a Union steward dealing with a grievant who was placed upon leave restriction six months ago for sick leave abuse. Since he was placed upon sick leave abuse, he has provided medical documentation for each and every absence due to illness of either himself or a family member in his care. He has also recently turned in FMLA paperwork due to a lifelong medical condition of one of his children. His supervisor extended his sick leave restriction for yet another six months even though every absence has been medically documented. Should this person still be on SLR? This isn't a person that calls in on Mondays or Fridays, during scheduled weekend work, or before or after an RDO. There is no discernable pattern to his absences. Any thoughts or opinions?
Re: sick leave abuse?
Emp DoD Mon Apr 7, 2008 9:34 AM
I don't how your agency's letter read, but ours indicates the letter of requirement may be removed earlier if there has been significant improvement in leave usage, and maintained. Doesn't sound like that has happened in your case. Outside of the FMLA entitlement, the agency could still take action for unsatisfactory work attendance. Just depends on how necessary that position really is and who is doing the work while absent.
FMLA paperwork--
Civil Service (DOD) WRAFB, GA Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:56 AM
I don't know what paperwork besides the one you give to your medical doctor for certification a person must do if he/she is out. My situation is a little different I have bipolar and ptsd. Someweeks I am fine--but today I am not. I have already been ok'd for the fmla leave--just waiting on my psychiatrist doing paperwork--but do I have to do any more paperwork for days like today?
Thanks...
sick leave
fed fed Thu May 8, 2008 6:42 PM
if i call in sick one day, and i'm sick the next day, do I have to call in sick every day, or does my employer (government) assume that I'm still sick until I return to work?
sick leave abuse
CTE SSA Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:22 PM
I can only speak for my agency.
If management were to remove the stress and treat technicians like human beings instead of robots there might be less sick leave usage.
I often feel as if the people who actually process the cases are the real ones to be respected in the agency. We are not to be blamed for attrition and the losses of many good people. We are not to be blamed for the ever increasing workloads. I say treat the employees better and you get more respect from them and less leave abuse.
Consider also the ever aging workforce. People over 55 tend to get sick more often than someone in their 20's. Add to this 30+ years of constant stress and ever increasing workloads and downsizing.
If it were not for overtime SSA would look like a barren wasteland.
S/L Et. al.
Criminal Investigator DOJ Mon Aug 4, 2008 2:59 PM
4 hours of s/l every 2 weeks is nice. Fortunately, I am healthy and have a lot of s/l accrued. I can not stand employees who abuse s/l and then go on leave/donor status when they actually become sick or injured. Although I would like to use it when I want, s/l has restrictions, and therefore you must play by the rules. S/l is something to use when needed - even then the rules are liberally applied.
sick leave
SSA
Mon Jan 8, 2007 8:53 AM
Sick leave is "earned" just as your salary is earned, so I say you earned it, you can't take it with you as a FERS employee, so USE IT !!!!!!!!!!
Re: sick leave
fed agency
Mon Jan 8, 2007 9:07 AM
Re: sick leave
dod
Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:19 AM
Re: sick leave
DOS
Mon Jan 8, 2007 12:08 PM
Sick leave is not earned like Annual Leave. it is an entitlement.
It belongs to the USG and is for your use provided you are sick. Since the Sick Leave is not yours to give away it cannot be donated. It is an entitlement owned by the government therefore requlated by the government. You notice there is nothing in writing that tells you how to use Annual Leave. That is because you own the annual leave. Sick leave however is owned by the USG therefore they can put restrictions on it like documentation, abuse etc.. People need to understand that Sick Leave is not earned by given to employees as an entitlement
Re: sick leave
ICE
Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:09 AM
There are several other pecadillos --oh, fraud, for example - that jeopardize an employee's job. I've yet to fire an employee for SL abuse. I've placed many on leave restriction.
Anyhow, no manager should allow any kind of leave abuse. However, FERS should be in the same boat--sick leave-wise--that CSRS is.
I don't like the tone of this series
DoD
Mon Jan 8, 2007 9:01 AM
If this site is really "for the informed fed" why concentrate on material that is negative or anti-worker. I think this brings down this site.
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
civilian agency
Mon Jan 8, 2007 9:21 AM
From some of the comments on this and the previous article, it is obviously a topic that many people do not know much about and some have probably been abusing leave and subjecting themselves to disciplinary action without understanding the potential consequences.
I hope the author and fedsmith will keep up the good work of providing useful information--even if some do not iike to hear it.
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
self-employed
Mon Jan 8, 2007 9:31 AM
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
Federal Agency
Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:16 AM
As for the leave, everyone does not get 5 weeks of annual leave. Annual leave is earned based on the number of years of service an employee has. After spending 30 plus years working for the Federal government, I don't take for granted my great benefits package nor do I abuse it. I have annual leave banked and well over 1,000 hours of sick leave. Technically, I don't get paid for my sick leave when I retire, it is used to determine the final length of service in the Federal government which might equate to 5 dollars extra in my annuity check after taxes.
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
Not a consultant
Mon Jan 8, 2007 1:38 PM
I worked for a consultant for years, and the majority of people left there to work for the governement sector. The consultants I worked for enforced mandatory 50 hour work weeks and could care less if we needed to care for children family etc.. All that mattered was making money to the consultant...at the expense of the sanity of all the employees. And the only people who moved up were the spineless ones that never challlenged management's ideas.
So as hard working as I can see you think you are I would never want to trade places. And I can tell you I work harder for the federal govt than I would ever for a consultant because I APPRECIATE an employer that cares about and takes care of me and my family. Its hard to work for places you don't respect.
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
self-employed
Mon Jan 8, 2007 2:41 PM
FERS Dilemma
DON
Mon Jan 8, 2007 9:15 AM
Oh, come on now. FERS people have only two choices with the S/L that they have earned - USE IT or LOSE IT. What would you do? The system is rigged to force FERS people into becoming what the author of this article calls S/L Abusers. If I want to have zero hours of S/L on my earliest retirement date I have to start using over 200 hours per year.
Re: FERS Dilemma
SSA
Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:06 AM
Re: FERS Dilemma
DOE
Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:15 AM
Re: FERS Dilemma
Navy
Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:01 AM
Donating Sick Leave
IRS
Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:01 AM
FERS employees don't get paid for their sick leave when they retire, yet people like me cannot donate this type of sick leave to others within our agency who need sick leave. We can only donate ordinary leave to those who need it for extended illnesses. Checking our Employee Suggestion program, many have submitted this as an issue, but the only responses have been "Denied." No explanation whatsoever. So much for employee satisfaction.
Re: Donating Sick Leave
Federal Agency
Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:17 PM
Sick Leave usage
SSA
Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:13 AM
I'd like to know how many of you staunch "law abiders" have taken some sick time for a doctor's appt. and not returned to work after your appt was over. Pleeeease.
Re: Sick Leave usage
DON
Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:49 AM
If that makes me an abuser then so be it.
Re: Sick Leave usage
nasa
Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:40 PM
Re: Sick Leave usage
HEALTH CARE
Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:27 PM
There's something odoriferous here
Self-Employed
Mon Jan 8, 2007 10:46 AM
I know that folks who call in sick when they're feeling fine are lying to their bosses and cheating. I can also understand the "use or lose" view of S/L accumulation. What troubles me is the high-handed tone of the author and commentators from the HR community.
You're sense of right vs. wrong, legal vs. illegal reminds me of preachers who rail against gays... and then turn out to be gay. Or drivers who go at exactly the speed limit in the left lane and are content to have those of us who exceed the limit back up behind them.
The author must be a hard worker, but has he never "over-estimated" his hours/expenses to a client, chosen to exceed the speed limit, or fudged an answer to a question? Why the obsession with strict adherence and catching offenders?
I've called in when I wasn't sick. I lied to my boss. I also loved my job and was held in high esteem. Laws and rules aren't people. These articles would be better if the black and white also entertained shades of gray.
Re: I don't like the tone of this series
Treasury
Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:16 AM
I love these people who think they are holier then the rest. I can just imagine this author speeding on the roadways to and from work once in a while, or docking himself the ten or fifteen minutes he may have been late or stuck in traffic. They are content to tell others how to behave in a certain context. Yet in the context of their lives they wonder off the ethical fine line when it's in their best interest...This article is a joke. Why not address all the elements of the Code of Conduct Booklet in your articles and see how many employee's you get reading your stuff, NOT!
Re: Re: I don't like the tone of this series
DHS
Tue Jan 9, 2007 11:26 AM
However, as a soon to retire employee, I think back to the many times that I did show up for work due to "Mission Critical" obligations when taking sick leave was totally justifiable and legal. I then ask myself, was I stupid for putting the job before myself?
Should I have told my supervisor back then, sorry I'm on sick leave and let months of work go to waste?
Is my "reward" for putting the job first now to be called a dishonest sick leave abuser if I take a "mental health day" after over 32 years of service?
When I was younger and had to take time for doctors appointments, I would if all possible schedule them for federal holidays (like MLK Jr Day) when clinics were open and it would not be detrimental to my work. Was I wrong?
Just call me "sucker" from now on.
Negativity
Department of the Army
Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:27 AM
After reading this article, anyone not familiar with Federal Employees would automatically assume that abuse is rampant within the work-force. I strongly disagree. I not only do not abuse sick-leave, I work additional hours and Overtime is never an option. I am not alone in these work habits. I am a professional as are my co-workers. For reasons I do not understand, it is always easier for some people to be negative.
Re: Negativity
interior
Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:38 AM
The response of some people is to complain that the author is "holier than thou." Perhaps there real message is "shoot the messenger; I don't like the message."
Re: Negativity
Fed
Mon Jan 8, 2007 1:47 PM
While you can get hung up on a million different things the bottom line is getting your work done, getting it done on time and doing a good job. If someone isn't doing this, then THAT is the time to start figuring out what abuses may be going on, but not before that.
Re: Negativity
DoD
Mon Jan 8, 2007 3:03 PM
Re: Negativity
FAA
Tue Jan 9, 2007 10:19 AM
Re: Negativity
MSA
Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:38 PM
Accusations of alleged sick Leave "abuse" are very subjective and are about 99.9% impossible to actually prove unless the employee is followed every minute of the day and night and is caught doing things that a "well" person would be doing.
Sick Leave
Department of Treasury
Mon Jan 8, 2007 12:50 PM
Whether one is taking sick leave for other than illness or for chronic disease, one will run out of sick leave fairly quickly.
As a long-term chronically ill employee whose hospitalizations and illnesses have resulted in LWOP situations, loss of pay has had a significant effect on my household finances. Sick leave is not a perquisite and those who feel justified in using it for other than its intended purposes should hope that they never become chronically ill or have a lengthy illness. It makes far more sense to save one's sick leave in anticipation of a catastrophic illness, rather than nickel and dime it away because of dissatisfaction with one's retirement system. We all are voluntarily bound to certain terms of employment, rather than self-employed, and should also consider the impact of our absences on our coroworkers and peers. Thanks for the series.
Re: Sick Leave
DOD
Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:58 AM
Abuse happens on both sides of the equation.
I'm glad that the vast majority are simply honest people doing the best they can.
Re: Sick Leave
Department of Treasury
Tue Jan 9, 2007 12:29 PM
Re: Sick Leave
Department of Treasury
Tue Jan 9, 2007 12:39 PM
Re: Sick Leave
HEALTH CARE
Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:23 PM
Sick Leave Options
DoD
Mon Jan 8, 2007 2:08 PM
I can't argue with informing employees about the rights and wrongs of sick leave. All too often the excuse is "I didn't know.", or "No one told me!". I've accumulated a nice bunch of hours and use it only as it was meant to be. I like my job and I like the benfits too much to blow it for a lousy day off.
Having said that, I think the regs need to be changed. I earned and accumulated that time. I should be able to donate it to those in need, or put it in a pool when I retire so that folks with illnesses or in need of treatment can use it. It's not right to strip it away so that no one ever sees benefit from it except Uncle Sam.
Re: Sick Leave Options
CNCS
Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:06 AM
I also want to say that people NOT taking sick leave and coming in with colds and the flu is a problem when the work atmosphere is so strict or supervisors are uninformed. You don't need a doctor's note for sick leave unless it's over 3 days but try telling that to some of our supervisors. I'm not going to the doctor for a cold I can treat at home but I don't want to come in and get everyone else sick. But it happens all the time.
Is my office illegal?
USDA FS
Mon Jan 8, 2007 2:20 PM
The paragraph on "patterns of leave usage" got me wondering about the ethical condition of my office. Our records show that 40 percent of all sick leave is used on Mondays and Fridays. Hmmm.
Re: Is my office illegal?
DOD
Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:47 AM
Re: Is my office illegal?
DoD
Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:48 AM
Hmm . . . sounds about right.
Re: Is my office illegal?
DOD
Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:56 AM
While critically ill I needed injections once a week. I could go Mon, Wed, or Fri. I often had a reaction that left me ill through the next day. Soo, I chose Fri. that I would be ill on my own time.
My (idiotically controlling) supv. tried to discipline me for leave abuse. She knew I was ill. She knew I was getting treatment. She didn't like that dared work and have an illness. It didn't matter to her that I worked a workload comparable to a solid performer in the next higher grade and did it to the highest standard. Being ill forced me to greater organization and performance.
Her right to get doctor's notes. But she looked like a fool when she tried to have me disciplined. Of course, her best employees, me included, took our first opportunities to move on. Shame, it was otherwise a good job.
Same agenda as the inflated salaries police
US Army
Mon Jan 8, 2007 3:04 PM
These are the same folks that say we are making too much money. Most of us are being paid below our civilian counterparts, except for in Washington DC where they do these surveys. FERS was designed to save the government money. So, they made Sick Leave "use or loose" thinking they could stick us. It backfired! Who could be surprised by that outcome? The solution is to allow Sick Leave to be donated to others that really need it (serious medical conditions), or allow some token benefit at retirement similar to CSRS, maybe a combination of both. That would be a simple fix that would benefit everyone including the government. Gee, an incentive to fix the problem, no that can't work, has to be complicated and illogical for it to be a government approved solution.
Re: Same agenda as the inflated salaries police
DOD
Mon Jan 8, 2007 3:43 PM
Re: Same agenda as the inflated salaries police
Navy
Tue Jan 9, 2007 1:03 PM
Ritalin - a commonly abused prescription drug
DFAS
Mon Jan 8, 2007 4:08 PM
As an federal employee with ADHD, which is recognized by the ADA, I know that Ritalin saved my life!
I've worked for the Federal Government for 29 years.
Get your facts straight before you start writing.
Re: Ritalin - a commonly abused prescription drug
civilian
Mon Jan 8, 2007 4:47 PM
Re: Ritalin - a commonly abused prescription drug
Department of Treasury
Tue Jan 9, 2007 12:47 PM
Re: Ritalin - a commonly abused prescription drug
DOD
Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:00 AM
Such blanket statements need to be carefully spoken because most people are not abusing.
A Generational Component?
Worker
Mon Jan 8, 2007 5:32 PM
From reading all the comments it seems you could loosely group comments into 2 groups. One with a very strict interpretation of sick leave and others with a more liberal interpretation of what a sick day entails (use for mental health days, more of a "use or lose "mentality).
Could it be possible that there is a generational component to these responses. I know with many issues in the office this exists (technology being the most obvious and glaring example). I would assume that it would be no different here. My guess would be the younger "Gen Y" generation may favor the more "liberal" interpretation, while the older baby boomers may tend to see the very strict interpretation.
I'm not taking the side of either interpretation...but rather wondering if these forces are at work. If they are it will have a large influence on how sick leave is utilized over the coming years as a large amount of the federal workforce is expected to retire.
Re: A Generational Component?
EPA
Tue Jan 9, 2007 6:22 AM
Re: A Generational Component?
Federal Agency
Tue Jan 9, 2007 9:02 AM
As a boomer, I know I was taught family and ethical values and to not expect the world to stop because I walk in the door...
Re: A Generational Component?
Fed
Tue Jan 9, 2007 10:31 AM
I definitely see that attitude at my workplace and it only helps to further the divide.
Re: A Generational Component?
Federal Agency
Tue Jan 9, 2007 11:55 AM
True. Gens Y and X are working with and for the baby-boomers. That alone should qualify us for "mental health days".
My attitude about dealing with individuals from other generations is fine until they start dictating that we have to do what they want or they'll leave or complain.
It is a two-way street and even gen x and y group needs to learn to work with others too.
Re: A Generational Component?
DOD
Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:01 AM
So, if you are diagnosed with a mood or other mental disorder, you can take a "mental health" day?
But otherwise, burn-out, stress, headaches, etc, don't qualify?
Need to get the abuse under control
USFS
Mon Jan 8, 2007 11:42 PM
Need S/L Police. "Hang" a few offenders then see if anyone in FERS
even takes sick leave. This could be one more good job for all those contencious supervisors to whom no one can at work! It is those kind of supervisors workers only hope will abuse S/L themselves and just stay away.
Complaining about 'use or lose' sick leave
retired
Tue Jan 9, 2007 11:05 AM
ENOUGH! If the writers who don't like the laws about sick leave (including those that don't allow you to donate it), then do something about it. It literally takes an act of Congress to change these rules, so write your congressional representatives. Drop the "woe is me" approach, it's annoying, unproductive, and embarrassing. And, as a CSRS retiree, I would gladly have traded my banked sick leave for matching TSP funds. The grass is always greener...as the old saw goes.
Re: Complaining about 'use or lose' sick leave
DOJ
Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:22 PM
Abusers everywhere
DHS
Tue Jan 9, 2007 11:31 AM
I am amused that those legalists who are on their high horses about sick leave abuse wrote comments during the work day on non-break times!
I suggest before anyone talks about someone else's misdeeds, they look in the mirror.
And by the way, I am on lunch break!
Re: Abusers everywhere
Navy
Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:08 AM
FERS
Fed Agency
Tue Jan 9, 2007 12:04 PM
I am under the CSRS retirement system. As such I do not have matching funds to my TSP contributions, nor am I able to receive full Social Security benefits (I have the required quarters). I will be penalized when I apply (Windfall Elim). There are good and bad parts of each system. We have to live with the laws as they are presently written or as "Complaining about use or lose sick" said write your congressman or congresswomen and try to get the law changed. I've worked in the private sector and to tell you the truth the Federal Employee's benefits are outstanding.
If you don't believe that then you need to work on the outside and get a dose of reality. We should consider ourselves very fortunate to have what we have. I know I am.
Sick Leave
VA
Tue Jan 9, 2007 12:08 PM
In our agency a Dr.'s slip is only required for more than 3 consecutative days of sick leave; so, it's your word against your boss as to whether or not you were actually sick.
In the absence the presentation of a fradulent medical statement, this issue is not even worth this discussion.
Positive View of FERS S/L Reform
DoD
Tue Jan 9, 2007 3:55 PM
Without denying that S/L abuse exists, consider the following. S/L use is high the year before retirement at least partly because both illness and disability increase at older ages. This is to be expected and is one reason retirement benefits were implemented in the early 1900s. An older, illness-prone employee must make a judgement as to whether they should voluntarily retire or make perfectly legal and ethical use of their earned S/L. A cash out option for FERS S/L would be a positive for the government, allowing for better workload management and for the individual. Win-Win. Or would the author rather go on whining about unethical feds?
Sick Leave
VA MED CENTER
Tue Jan 9, 2007 4:09 PM
Since there has always been abuse with SL, I would like to offer a suggestion. Instead of having AL and SL just go with PTO (paid time off) hours. Because there's a lot that goes on with especially the sick leave hours. For example, supervisor have let employees use their sick leave to save the vacation hours either for extended vacations or for one who is getting ready to retire so their retirement hours will extend their retirement time. So know matter what you do seems like there's going to be an abuse verses illeagal situations going on.
sick leave
VA
Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:18 AM
Nothing like Congress to create a management nightmare re: Sick Leave. How often does someone use all their leave on a monthly/weekly basis and have a severe illness requiring "donated leave". It is hard to be sympathetic when you have to provide the backup support for the "missing" individual to get the job done when they're out fishing (oops, I mean sick)
Re: sick leave
Navy
Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:17 PM
Sick Leave Usage
DHS Law Enforcement Officer
Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:59 AM
I have mandatory retirement at age 57 because someone thinks that I won't be physically up to standards. So if I use Sick Leave that I banked during my younger days to go to the more frequent doctors appointments and days when I am incapacitated, it is not a problem.
But is it Sick Leave abuse for me to take a day of Sick Leave after putting in a 24 hour day on the job? The firearms regs require 8 hours of sleep after 24 hours of on duty. So am I requried to take Annual Leave the day after or is Sick Leave justifiable?
In Reality, I guess I could lock up my gun and just do paperwork for the next ten hours (making me on duty for 34 hours straight), but I am not sure how good of a job I would do.
How did OPM or Congress calculate that the amount of sick leave earned should be 4 hours every two weeks? Is that the average usage or a figure out of the hat?
Sick Leave Usage
ICE
Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:05 AM
Has there ever been a case where an eligible to retire employee was punished for sick leave abuse?
As for me, just before I retire I am going to take my 12 weeks of sick leave (Family Medical Leave Act for Adoption) and go to Paris to interview French Waitresses for potential adoption purposes!
Totally legal and proper. I will also use my Frequent Flyer miles and hotel points (earned on government TDYs) for the airfare and hotel stays!
So shame on all you Sick Leave abusers who take "mental health days!"
Re: Sick Leave Usage
DOL
Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:51 AM
By the way I also have 35+ years of service and I can't tell you how many times during those years that I've been on sick leave, or annual leave for that matter, and a supervisor call my home to ask a question on a case or had an administrative assistant call to ask a question. The supervisor figured if I was on paid time regardless of whether it was sick leave or annual leave, they had a right to contact me at home.
Re: Sick Leave Usage
FAA
Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:14 PM
someone (IN CSRS) who was trying to balance out their sick leave before they retire. Because any sick leave over a full month is lost. (IE: 9 months 10 days goes back to 9 months additional service for retirement) Well guess what? Now that he is about to retire, he is using his. I guess it depends on which boat your in.
By the way, can't you retire faster than any action taken
will take if you are eligible?
sick leave patterns
FAA
Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:34 AM
I am in CSRS and still have a small SL cushion after a serious personal illness and significant family leave for caregiving. I am now healthy and out of the caregiving situation, but have lots of doctor appointments for followup care and new issues (I AM getting older).
It appears that the only time to schedule Dr. appointments that do not fall into patterns is every other Wednesday that doesn't follow a Tuesday payday. Hmm... wouldn't that be a pattern in itself?
I guess I'm already setting a pattern though, since several of my doctors ONLY see patients on Mondays and Fridays. Oh well, at least I can document it, if needed.
Sick Leave Abuse
Bureau of Reclamation
Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:43 AM
In management/employee relations, I see more and more use of sick leave in the area of stress. Although stress is not part of the "medical sick leave" picture it certainly should be given serious consideration. I've noticed that both supervisor and supordinate lose luster during tough times. I don't know if studies have been conducted on the affects of stress but I for one am a believer that stress takes a toll. I don't think heart attacks are as much a leading cause of death as is stress. Its a difficult call in the arena of sick leave for a person truly stressed out.
Re: Sick Leave Abuse
DOD
Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:33 AM
Leave Abuse
Treasury
Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:09 AM
I have read this string of comments, and have to laugh at those that lay blame, without walking a mile in the shoes of those of us who work to achieve in exemplary fashion each of the goals we set to ourselves during not only the day at work, but at home, in the community, in the church, etc. Our dedication is for naught, it seems, when compared to the 'black and white' philosophies of some of the 'do as I say' commentors. The only thing I have to say is this: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Appears that the 'by the book' spewers above walk on water, no? Give me a break! You should be ashamed of yourselves! Abuse comes in the form of worse things than calling in sick to care for someone, or even something as horrendously viewed as a mental health day! Abuse of leave comes in the form of not only being out (when not sick, etc.) but while in the office, COLLECTING A CHECK AND NOT DOING THE JOB FOR WHICH YOUR EMPLOYER IS PAYING YOU A SALARY TO DO! Loafing is a sin!
Re: Leave Abuse
Navy
Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:40 AM
No one is saying don't use your leave. The point is, don't abuse it.
Sick leave is an insurance policy
DON
Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:16 AM
It is my understanding that as a Federal Employee, you are not entitled to State Disability. Unless you carry additional disability insurance, if you need time off to recuperate from a severe illness or even the birth of a child, you are at the mercy of your leave balances and the good nature of your co-workers who MAY donate some leave. That is the greatest incentive of all not to abuse your sick leave. I don't know about you...but I need my paycheck.
Sick Leave
DOD
Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:00 AM
It's yours take it as required. We don't get bonuses or at a boys for doing a good job. But if you run out and you have depleted your account .........that's on you.
Sick leave abuse
VA
Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:24 PM
Oh cry me a river. I'll use my sick time as PTO when I feel like it. Due to chronic staffing shortages and absurd vacation scheduling policies for my particular floor, many of the least senior nurses don't get the opportunity for vacations or scheduled days off. Yet we are the most likely to be mandated to work OT.
Re: Sick leave abuse
Federal Agency
Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:24 AM
Re: Sick leave abuse
DOD
Mon Apr 7, 2008 8:21 PM
Physicians in my department also abused sick leave. These were a combination of FMG's indentured by their VISA requirements, and the typical federally entitled minded physicians. (Couldn't make it in private practice)
Prior to my leaving, I was in a supervisory role and could do little about the one or two days here and there taken by these "professionals." I had more sick leave accumulated in four years than the rest of the entire department combined. (four additional physicians)
VA is "really something."
Glad to Have Sick Leave
DA
Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:54 PM
After spending close to 4 yrs as a Fed employee, I recently had the joy of having my second child earlier this year. If I did not have enough S&A/L combined saved up to take the time off to go to monthly (if not more) dr appts and six weeks for maternity leave I would have gone in the LWOP status. Being the breadwinner in my family, if I did not get my paycheck my family would not get the essential items they need. Thankfully, I and my new son did not have any health problems afterward that would have caused me to miss work otherwise I would be in a world of hurt and hoping for leave donations I may never receive. Now I am in the process of rebuilding my S&A/L balance back-up in case unforeseen future events cause me to miss work for long periods of time. I have supervisors put employees on S/Lrestrictions until they have a certain amount of hours in their balance, because S/L is suppose to be there just in case you really do get sick/injuried.
Good for the Goose...
DOD
Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:26 PM
As a union official I'll stand beside the supervisor and beg my members to not abuse their sick leave. But that only goes so far when the supervisor has an attendance issue or is differential in their treatment of employees suspected of abusing sick leave. If you can't or won't take action against a friend or yourself, then don't expect the subordinate to act any different.
I my profession we are emergency essential with a minimum on-duty staffing level. When one calls in sick another gets to stay at work and not go home at the end of their shift. So sick leave abuse hurts other employees and we must police ourselves.
With that said, why do my members use (or abuse) sick leave; could it be the 72 hr shifts (yes, 72 hrs straight) or the lack of available leave spots, the fact that retention is in the dumps? I don't know but I am certain that it is a dynamic situation that will take labor and management to correct. Labor can't do it alone & management's iron fist doesn't help
SL
ICE
Tue Feb 5, 2008 7:16 PM
How is it that a supervisor can complain about an employee taking a "mental health day" when during the first 90 days of the fiscal year that same employee was TDY for 58 of those days. Yet this same supervisor was heard at a "party" bragging about how he was enjoying the new big screen TV at the office and not having to go TDY. It's great to be a supervisor when there is no one to supervise. Go figure.
sick leave abuse?
DoD
Sat Apr 5, 2008 3:39 PM
I'm a Union steward dealing with a grievant who was placed upon leave restriction six months ago for sick leave abuse. Since he was placed upon sick leave abuse, he has provided medical documentation for each and every absence due to illness of either himself or a family member in his care. He has also recently turned in FMLA paperwork due to a lifelong medical condition of one of his children. His supervisor extended his sick leave restriction for yet another six months even though every absence has been medically documented. Should this person still be on SLR? This isn't a person that calls in on Mondays or Fridays, during scheduled weekend work, or before or after an RDO. There is no discernable pattern to his absences. Any thoughts or opinions?
Re: sick leave abuse?
DoD
Mon Apr 7, 2008 9:34 AM
FMLA paperwork--
WRAFB, GA
Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:56 AM
I don't know what paperwork besides the one you give to your medical doctor for certification a person must do if he/she is out. My situation is a little different I have bipolar and ptsd. Someweeks I am fine--but today I am not. I have already been ok'd for the fmla leave--just waiting on my psychiatrist doing paperwork--but do I have to do any more paperwork for days like today?
Thanks...
sick leave
fed
Thu May 8, 2008 6:42 PM
if i call in sick one day, and i'm sick the next day, do I have to call in sick every day, or does my employer (government) assume that I'm still sick until I return to work?
sick leave abuse
SSA
Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:22 PM
I can only speak for my agency.
If management were to remove the stress and treat technicians like human beings instead of robots there might be less sick leave usage.
I often feel as if the people who actually process the cases are the real ones to be respected in the agency. We are not to be blamed for attrition and the losses of many good people. We are not to be blamed for the ever increasing workloads. I say treat the employees better and you get more respect from them and less leave abuse.
Consider also the ever aging workforce. People over 55 tend to get sick more often than someone in their 20's. Add to this 30+ years of constant stress and ever increasing workloads and downsizing.
If it were not for overtime SSA would look like a barren wasteland.
S/L Et. al.
DOJ
Mon Aug 4, 2008 2:59 PM
4 hours of s/l every 2 weeks is nice. Fortunately, I am healthy and have a lot of s/l accrued. I can not stand employees who abuse s/l and then go on leave/donor status when they actually become sick or injured. Although I would like to use it when I want, s/l has restrictions, and therefore you must play by the rules. S/l is something to use when needed - even then the rules are liberally applied.