It is amazing how many people treat "mental health" like it is the plague! A lot of physical health problems could be eliminated if people would take "mental health" days. Most of the manifested sickness in the workplace began in the mind - disgruntled employees, people who see "unfairness" keep it in and keep smiling until they bust in the guts, have a stroke or a heart attack. Then it's okay to use sick leave. Then it's really okay to need a caregiver or place an added burden upon your family. Then it's okay to leave a widow or orphans behind. Then it's okay!!!!!!
Unfortunately, most people don't care and people who take a day to care for themselves because they know they need it have will have to carry the burden of being unethical and dishonest liars and cheaters.
It's not just about saving for a rainy day - it may not rain for years - but a sunshiny day can do wonders when the day is just overcast and cloudy!
Re: sick leave and mental health
Administrative Assistant OPM Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:01 PM
Bravo! I could not have said it any better. If more people took "mental health" days, it would be a much better world.
Re: sick leave and mental health
Civilian Navy Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:22 AM
And just what do you do on your "mental health" day? If you are truly using it as a recovery day, are you seeking treatment? This mental health issue is just another excuse. Use your annual leave if you want a day off. Read the requirements for requesting sick leave; incapacitation for duty. If you've gone fishing, you're lying to yourself and your supervisor.
Re: sick leave and mental health
IT SPECIALIST DFAS Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:05 AM
Well again, such ignorance about mental illness. Depression is a very incapacitating disease - in fact, depression is the number one cause of death by suicide. Maybe people ought to go fishing and enjoy the beauty of nature - that's not lying to oneself. In fact, the mental health professionals that have treated me have suggested just that. When your mind cannot not focus on your work, then you are incapacitated for that work. When you have a cold or the flu, why take sick leave - you can still raise a fork to your mouth and eat. With your logic, that is what annual leave is for....
Re: sick leave and mental health
Manager DoD Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:14 AM
I like the idea of a mental health day. Most of us could use more of them.
Re: sick leave and mental health
Civilian Navy Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:24 AM
IT - ignorant, I'm not. I'm not referring to those with documented medical (mental health) conditions. I'm referring to the "I just don't feel like going to work" syndrome used by many employees. They call it a mental health day, but all they want is day off. Call it what it really is. Sorry, I'm not buying it's okay to go fishing when calling in sick. If I was a supervisor, I'd be taking action. Let the employee justify that absence with medical documentation, if he can.
Re: sick leave and mental health
supervisor VA Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:28 AM
I think those opossed to Mental Health days miss the point entirely. Yes there a shamers out there. We all know that. But there are hard workers are there who sometimes find that they need today off because they are a point where things aren't well mentally. Do they to a see a Doctor? No no more than a person with a cough or headache. There is 3day time period where one does not need to see a physician.
I recall when I was in the US Army and stationed in northern Europe. It was winter. In northern Europe the nights are long in the winter. I worked in an office with the windows painted black. I did see the sun during the winter months. One day I came to work. I felt down, really down. I wanted to see the sun. I wanted to see sun light. I was complaining. I never thought that my supervisor would let me take the day off so I didn't ask. I had a good supervisor. He understood. He told me to take the day off. It was best day off in my whole life.
Re: sick leave and mental health
Engineer DoD Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:51 AM
Yes, I believe in mental health days. And, yes, I get "treatment".....I try to spend the day with someone like Dr. Bass or some equally theraputic experience.
I also schedule doctor appointments for myself and daughter on days other than my day off. And, no, I won't expect anyone to donate sick leave as I have private disability and long term care insurance should I be ill beyond the 240 hours of annual leave and the + 400 hours of sick leave I keep "on the books".
Sick Leave
Manager DOT Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:30 AM
As I age, my ability to keep the same schedule as a twenty-something employee would seem to be something to keep in mind. I am disappointed when someone obivously abuses the system but (at my age) I am angered when I have to interact with peers who are ill. I am now getting glasses, hearing aids and flu shots. I didn't bother with these items until the age of 50. Those that have cancer or other devastating deseases should not be considered a problem. Take the older and the termanlly ill out of the mix and do the numbers still look bad?
If they do, then an incentived program is the answer. Those that fail to study history are doomed to repeat it.
It's Up to Congress
Computer/Network Support DOD/USAF Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:49 AM
Countless times I have suggested to Congress that they allow us FERS retirees to convert unused sick leave into a cash lump sum, or add it to our pension annuity like the CSRS retirees. This would bring prudence to the whole thing. So far, no action!!
Sick Leave
Supervisor hastings Indian Medical Center Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:11 AM
Everybody is right about the abuse of sick, and who hurts when staff abuse their sick or annual leave, in our case the patients, your fellow staff and visitors get the short end of the stick. When staff abuse thier sick leave, that tells me they have no pride in their work and need to find another job that better suited for them. Only way this could be stop is have them get a doctors statement for relase and doctors statement to return to work after one day. I see alot of abuse for family leave, beacuse they can use up to 40 hours a year on family friendly.
Re: Sick Leave
IT SPECIALIST DFAS Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:26 AM
Can we fix the system so we can see a doctor on the same day! If we can, I can go for that! My depression was horrible this year - went to my family doctor who will NOT treat my depression. Made an appointment in November - right after Thanksgiving, guess what I go to the doctor today to treat my depression that lifted about 4 weeks ago! With your plan, I would have been off work since November and whatever the doctor says today, I may get to come back to work. Wonderful plan - I love it!
get off it
engineer air force Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:12 AM
you bore me and just keep on... basically, the old retirement plan gave people sick days and paid them if they did not use them. The new retirement plan uses social security which will be cut back sooner or later and only offers sick days to those who use them. You ride one issue and point fingers at the workers as if they have no ethics. I would put my money on the federal workers ethics against your ill willed ethics.
Re: get off it
analyst DoD Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:34 AM
Isn't capitalism a bitch?
I don't know how many responses are normally received but with the survey getting 1400 or so and 500 people writing in about it, in addition to the comments on this article, it seems like someone has hit a nerve and has exposed the abuse of the system that is going on. My guess is that the articles are here because there was a continuing interest in them. That is probably how the system should work so if one person is bored and wants to spend time spewing insults while a few thousand others find the subject of interest, life may be a bitch for the spewers and those with the flexible ethics.
flexible ethics
hr spec DoD Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:15 AM
The commentator quoted in the article probably hit the nail on the head. Many Americans have apparently adopted a theory of "flexible ethics." The suggestion that each person should decide for himself whether it is right to take sick leave without regard to the regulatory requirements leads to the logical conclusion that each person is free to do whatever he feels like.
The other extension of this train of logic is that we, as federal employees, should have the best of both worlds. We get additional contributions to the TSP if we are in FERS and "should" also get additional retirement credit just like the CSRS folks because, after all, we have personally decided that is the right thing to do.
With no moral compass or with a moral compass that is infinitely flexible as suggested by this innovative commentator, we are undoubtedly in trouble as a society. Everyone do what you want and to hell with everyone else!
Re: flexible ethics
IT SPECIALIST DFAS Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:28 AM
Is this new for America! Where have you been? People been doing what they wanted since they landed and took the land from the North Americans - just because they wanted it.
CRAZY!
Re: flexible ethics
engineer air force Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:43 AM
Wow, fed employess are on the road to a catastrophe. And, everything else is going so well, except maybe...
- bank scandals, stock scandals, govt scandals
- the foreign debt increasing at $1.5 billion a day
- the mounting government debts, over $44 trillion
- the 75% of home mortgages backed by Fan Mae or Fred Mac
- the 2/3rds of couples having no children
- the loss of our manufacturing industry to other countries
- the record level of household indebtedness
- the Social Security benefit without funding
- the impoverishment of the middle class
SICK LEAVE
Procurement Analyst Navy Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:36 AM
I have been with the Government almost 22 years and I missed CSRS by three months, so I am under FERS. I have about 500 hours of sick leave. While I do not abuse it, when the kids go to the doctor or dentist, I will take them based on this benefit. This is as opposed to my wife who does not get paid time off for this situation. When my kids were born, I took time off to be with my family. On days I don't feel great, I may take the day off as a FERS employee and whereas I may not have if I was a CSRS employee. I have off every other Friday, but I will not schedule doctor's appointments on that day. Bottom line, I don't abuse sick leave, but I do use it to the maximum extent possible within the allowable limits. There is no incentive to minimize usage.
Re: SICK LEAVE
Supervisor Department of the Navy Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:27 AM
You are abusing sick leave. Some of us are not fortunate enough to have RDOs. I want my SL balance to be as high as possible. If you are using SL for appointments that could be scheduled during off hours, your coworkers will not be compelled to donate hours to you in cases of debillitating illness or injury. Sorry
Fers Sick Leave Usage
Insulator (Retired) Puget Sound Naval Shipyard (formerly) Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:46 AM
The thinking on the part of many of my coworkers, when I was retiring, was that I should use all my sick leave before I retired. I would still be working if that was the case. "terminal" sick leave is extremely difficult for Fers employees, though often used bt CSRS employees. I did take three days at a time, to both remain within guidelines and keep my shop off my back, but could not use up all my sick leave before retirement. I gave back over 100 hours of sick leave. My coworkers were mystified that I would not take all, but there came a time when I had more leave than days to work. I do not feel bad either way, using what I did, or giving back what I did. I'm just happy to be retired.
Sick Leave/leave sharing program
Supervisor Probation Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:57 AM
Another issue that I believe prompts employees to "abuse" their sick leave is the leave sharing program. While I'm glad it's there, many think even if they whittle down their leave, they can always be bailed out.
Re: Sick Leave/leave sharing program
HR Specialist Federal Agency Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:07 AM
Amen! This is the most abused program in my personal opinion in the Federal government. If the taxpayers only knew...and now we want more...let's push forward the legislation to give paid maternity leave and burden the taxpayers more!
sick leave and 'pollen allergies'
AUSA DOJ Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:09 AM
I agree that sick leave (or any type of leave) should not be abused; however, I disagree with the article's classification of what should not be classified as an illness. In fact, I felt the writer exuded the elitist, condescending attitude so common in the healthy. A "pollen allergy" is a sickness and is often debilitating to the sufferer. A recent medical study showed that an allergy to ragweed and other pollens not only causes physical ailments, but also causes a release of chemicals in the body which in turn causes depression---a mental illness. If a "pollen allergy" is not a sickness, then by that standard, an appointment with an allergy doctor is not an appointment with a legitmate doctor and doesn't qualify as an accepted sick leave request? And doesn't that mean that getting allergy shots also would not qualify? And what about allergy-induced asthma? or depression? The writer obviously has been fortunate in his health, but clueless concerning the suffering of others.
Re: sick leave and 'pollen allergies'
General Engineer DOT Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:09 AM
Amen to that. I suffer from numerous sinus infections but rarely lose work. I have been diagnosed with reactive athsma and it does affect my productivity. This should obviously be considered an ailment that is covered by sick leave. Whoever said it isn't, I wouldn't wich it upon them, but it would be enlightening if they did eventually suffer from the same.
Working with Sick Employees
Enforcement Specialist DOI - Minerals Management Service Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:15 AM
The other side of the problem -
Sick employees showing up to work is persistent and costing $180 billion a year; more HR execs are taking notice.
January 26 2007: 9:53 AM EST
NEW YORK (Reuters) -- Practically every workplace has one - the employee who comes to the job aching, coughing and sneezing.
So-called "presenteeism," or going to work when sick, is a persistent problem at more than half of U.S. workplaces and costs U.S. business a whopping $180 billion a year, research shows.
Like its more notorious counterpart absenteeism, it takes on growing importance as employers try to keep an eye on productivity and the bottom line, experts say.
"Employers are increasingly concerned about the threat that sick employees pose in the workplace," said Brett Gorovsky, an analyst at CCH, a Riverwoods, Ill.-based provider of business and corporate law information and a division of Wolters Kluwer.
"Presenteeism can take a very real hit on the bottom line, although it is often unrecognized
Sick or not sick
Normal Government Employee VA Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:16 AM
The bottom line here is that each Agency has their own protocal. In the VA an employee can use up to 3 days of sick leave without providing written documentation of doctor care. After all, most peope don't always have to go to the doctor just because of the flu.
So, unless the Agency actually want's to invest "time and money" in following their employees around, get over it!!!!! Now if an employee chooses to submit a false doctor's statement, then there are grounds for fraud.
Advantage of Sick Leave Balance
Union President USDA Forest Service Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:16 AM
I was told once at a retirement seminar that an advantage for a FERS employee to maintain a large balance of sick leave is if you purchass "Disability Insurance" in case you get hurt off the job or have a medical illness that lasts a long time, is that your rates will be substantially reduced over the person that has little or no sick leave balance. If you currently have "Disability Insurance" but your insurer doesn't know that you have a large balance of Sick Leave built up, you probably need to discuss it with them or do some insurance shopping.
For the commenters that CSRS should get social security that doesn't apply because you didn't pay into SS. All of your contribution 7% went to CSRS, while with FERS their contribution of 7% was split between FERS and SS which is why FERS has a smaller % they payout.
For FERS employees that switched from CSRS there are different rules and you are eligible for credit of the amount of sick leave you had at the time of the switch.
Re: Advantage of Sick Leave Balance
General Engineer DOT Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:21 PM
I was informed when I left DoD, in 1987, under CSRS that my sick leave would disappear if I came back to government more than two years after I left. ( I had a balance of about 500-600+ hours over a period of 6 years) I came back to Goverment about 27 months after I left. I was told by a fellow co-worker here that the requirement was that I would have had to be gone for more than 3 years to lose my sick leave. I came back as a CSRS offset but have since switched to FERS. I'm not sure what the right answer is. Can you answer that?
Re: Advantage of Sick Leave Balance
Engineer DoD Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:27 AM
With regards to disability insurance, the sick leave balance in and of itself does not affect your insurance premium. Your premium, in part, is based on the number of days of disability you have before your insurance policy "kicks in"....the longer that period the lower the premium. My disability policy and my long term care policy require that I have 90 days (non-consecutive) of disability or illness before either will pay, thus 90 days of leave (sick or annual) becomes the "insurance" that would get me past that 90 day period. I could also get by that 90 day period through the use of personal savings. How that 90 days is handled is irrelevant to an insurance company.
Sick leave
AUSA DOJ Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:36 AM
Let FERS employees add unused sick leave to their longevity time in service calculations at retirement and watch the sick leave abuse problem become a dramatically less serious concern.
OR
To save money give FERS employees the option to add unused annual leave AND unused sick leave to longevity credit at retirement and not pay FERS employees for unused annual leave. I could add one full year of service to my retirement calculations under such a plan.
Re: Sick leave
AUSA DOJ Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:14 AM
What a great idea! Give FERS employees the OPTION to add unused annual leave and unused sick leave to longevity service credit at retirement. The government would no longer pay a cash payout for unused annual leave. Saves money for the government and gives a real retirement benefit to FERS employees. Many retiring employees would add about a year of service credit to their retirement calculations under such a plan. Will anyone push this idea?
Sick Leave Abuse
ATSS FAA Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:52 AM
Great subject!!
I would like to see comments on "taking smoking breaks" when we non-smokers do not get any breaks!
Re: Sick Leave Abuse
HR Specialist Federal Agency Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:36 AM
No one gets breaks, but we all (EVEN NON SMOKERS) take them.
Look around you at the people sitting and chatting! That's taking a break whether you want to call it that or not!
Sick Leave Abuse
Aviation Management Specialist USDA Forest Service Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:27 PM
I've never taken a sick day for myself in the nine years I've been employed. I have, however, taken a bunch of sick leave to care for my wife while she suffered from colon cancer. My supervisor was very generous and did everything possible to assign me work that I could do at home while I cared for her. I did use a bunch of sick leave, but not even close to the lower limit. I was able to be there when my wife passed away, all while remaining functional in my job while I was at home. I couldn't even fathom taking a sick leave day when I was not sick, but I sure believe in FMLA. Further, I couldn't fathom taking advantage of my supervisor's effort to help reduce the amount of FMLA sick leave I took by assigning me work I could do at home. When I wasn't doing work, I did use the FMLA sick leave. I spent many hours in the hospital in the cancer treatment center - all because I had it to take. I'm currently building it back up so that I have it available if I ever need it again.
Sick Leave and FERS: Leave Abuse? Justifiable Cheating? Flexible Ethics?
Supervisor USDL Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:54 PM
One individual wrote:
"Some form of incentive should be given to FERS employees to save their sick leave without abusing it as I have seen many employees not sick call in sick and when asked why, their comments are why save it; it doesn't count toward retirement like CSRS employees."
Here's an incentive: Investigate and discipline chronic sick leave abusers (FERS or CSRS) on a routine basis. Suspend them without pay or fire them. Its theft. Insurance companies have used fraud investigators for years because it pays. If people don't want to work for "The People" of the United States for the pay and benefits offered to them, without ripping us off, they need to find employment elswhere. If they don't want to go on their own accord, Uncle Sam should make the arrangements for them.
Sick Leave policy changes
General Engineer DOT Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:14 PM
I have been in all 3 retirement plans over my career with the federal government. I don't abuse my sick leave and I am glad that I haven't, because on two occassions, I really needed it to cover my time off from a bad accident and for major surgery. When I signed up, I realized that FERS would not get the benefit that CSRS employees get, but I also expected the other percs, i.e. yearly general increase (orginally advertised as two a year) would remain in tact as is. Now that the powers to be are changing the way we are to be paid, I don't think that they should stop there. They should revisit the accrued sick leave as adding to FERS retirees. Otherwise, they shouldn't tamper with the way we are paid.
Incentives for non-use of sick leave
HR Federal Agency Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:18 PM
How much more of an incentive do you need than the fact that the federal government has no short term disability insurance, and that the CFR limits the use of sick leave? I'm really sick of people demanding bribes to do the right thing.
Sick leave
Electronics Mechanic USACE Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:38 PM
I agree that sick leave should not be abused, but you must find an incentive other than the "save it for a rainy day answer". I always read about other employees needing donated leave, but we aren't allowed to donate sick leave, and my annual leave is out of the question. So what does it matter who uses the sick leave. If I am at the end of my career and I have a large amount of hours saved, whats wrong with taking that amount of time off to enjoy retirement early,Its what we all work for.
flexible ethics
Finance Clerk DOD Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:10 PM
It would be interesting to know the percent of respondents who are FERS and CSRS. I suspect that the majority of the 65% who were against using FERS sick leave for other than intended, are those on CSRS. If some are so concerned about the ethics of the situation, let the CSRS folks do the right thing and change to the same system as FERS. The noble CSRS birds would change their tune in a hurry.
Re: flexible ethics
HR Specialist Federal Agency Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:34 AM
"If some are so concerned about the ethics of the situation, let the CSRS folks do the right thing and change to the same system as FERS. The noble CSRS birds would change their tune in a hurry."
Why would changing from CSRS to FERS be the right thing? When I started my career (and basically took my oath of office CSRS was the system in place). I chose not to switch to FERS and I'm the one who lives with that decision.
Now, when you came to the government and signed your oath of office FERS was the system in place and you were informed of that. You have no option but to live with it!
It's time to stop the whining and move on!
Apples & Oranges
Public Utilities Specialist DOE Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:24 PM
My comment is more related to those commenting about FERS getting matching TSP and Social Security. Your comparing apples and oranges. You could get Matching TSP and Social security too if you're willing to give up 26% (or more if you get added sick leave) of your government annuity. FERS gets 30% at 30 years of service, you get 56% at 30 years of service. You also get 2% more for each year of sick leave. Keep your comments to the issue. The issue in not TSP or Social Security. The issue is the inequity of those who save their sick leave and get no credit for it!
Re: Apples & Oranges
HR Specialist Federal Agency Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:40 AM
The issue really is that CSRS and FERS are two entirely differently systems and we all have to live with that.
When CSRS folks took their oath of office (and technically signed an employment contract) they were advised of the benefits they had under CSRS. We have to live with what we have if we stayed in the system.
FERS folks also took their oath of office (and technically signed an employment contract) and they were advised of the benefits they would have under FERS. Live with it or get over it!
The system is not set up to allow FERS people the opportunity to opt in to CSRS -- CSRS is gone and the once the last CSRS person is paid the last dollar of their retirement this will no longer be an issue!
Sick Leave
Manager BLM Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:57 PM
I returned to work for the Govt 9/88 as a CSRS Offset. I switched to FERS to get the TSP matching. I lost 400+ hours of S/L when I resigned in 1980, but now have a balance of almost 1800 hours, accumulated since 9/88 when I was reinstated. With a maxi-flex schedule I don't have to use S/L for Doctor appointments etc.
I look at my accumulated sick leave as "income replacement insurance" with NO INSURANCE PREMIUM. I could be sick or laid up for over a year and receive my full paycheck.
With the Family Friendly Leave act, it seems that sick leave can be used for almost "any reason". Also with some people choosing to not make their medical condition "public", as a manager I feel I am not allowed to ask too many questions, or I could get in trouble. The leave donation program is being taken advantage of by some, since they failed to plan for the future.
I see BIG problems when lots of FERS employees start to retire if they are NOT given a good reason to NOT abuse their S/L!!!
Motivation for saving sick leave
Fisheries biologist Forest Service Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:43 PM
One suggestion that I have not seen yet, but that I think might make using sick leave as if it were annual leave less attractive, would be to allow only a specified portion of the accrued sick leave to count toward retirement benefits, say 25% or 50%. That way there would be some extra motivation to keep sick leave banked and it would still be available for true health emergencies. FERS employees would only get a fraction of the retirement bonus that CSRS employees do, but even that fraction could be significant, and they still have the matching TSP contributions that the CSRS workers don't. have.
sick leave use of FERS employees
claims representative social security adm Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:49 PM
Surprised to read all the comments. As a CSRS employee with 38 years, I have saved sick leave. I think some of the attitudes shown are due to generational differences. Younger employees accross the board feel less loyalty and perhaps less pride in their work than an older generation does. If they change the retirement system for FERS employees to count saved sick leave, then the government needs to change the Thrift savings plan. CSRS employees get no matching contributions like FERS employees do. This also affects retirement planning for employees.
Sick leave
CBP officer CBP Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:37 PM
Do the math. Under CSRS the guy that maxs out his retirement gets 2% for 2086 hours of sick leave (one year) So if he/she has a high three of say $50,000 he/she will get an additional $1000 per year in retirement. That means the person would have to live for 50 years in order to get the value those sick leave hours would have paid if he/she had taken the sick leave while working. Having said that, you have to pretty much be a complete idiot and very short sighted to use your sick leave as you earn it. Use it for dr. appointments etc. and when you are sick. Bank the rest and hope you dont need it. When you are close to retirement get all of your broken parts fixed. If you are young you likely dont think you will have any broken parts be you will. The only way to really keep people from abusing it is to pay them some percentage of their sick leave in cash when they retire. Money talks, bs walks.
Sick Leave Abuse
HR Director DOD Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:44 AM
I have worked in HR for over 30 years and I know the value of preserving sick leave and using it as it was intended. I can't count the number of long term employees I have seen become suddently ill and have no leave to carry them though cancer treatments, car accidents, strokes, clinical depression, and the like. I also can't count the number of employees (CSRS and FERS) I have sucessfully removed from the Federal Service for abuse of sick leave. In the end sick leave is a benenfit, a form of insurance, and a security blanket against things we can not control. Abuse of sick leave is violation of the public trust, fraud, and a character flaw. Public servants agree to be held to higher standard and must act accordingly. We teach our children to be moral beings to do the right thing, but we then excuse the deceptions that we carry out because we find excuse for the bad behavior.
Sick Leave Usage
CSI FSIS Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:35 AM
I am on the FERS retirement system. I am a product of hard working parents who were disciplinarians. I also served in the US Armed Forces for fourteen years and am now employed by the USDA/FSIS. Sick leave should be treasured and used only when absolutely necessary.
I was coming home from work one day and was rear ended at a stop light. I had to have back surgery, rehabilitation and recovery time away from work.If I had not saved up my sick leave I would have been in debt and AWOL by Agency policy. You never know what the future has in store for you, that was something I didn't expect at all but it can happen to anyone of us.
I donate sick leave but only to colleages that I know are truly in need and did not abuse their own sick leave time.
SL Abuse
Civilian Navy Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:45 AM
I have over 30 yrs Federal service and am CSRS. I readily admit that during my first few years as a civil servant I could probably have been considered a leave abuser. But, I started to save my leave in anticipation of illnesses, emergencies, etc. I've had to take weeks off for surgery, and have been able to use sick leave to care for family members and still received a paycheck. I have 1400 hrs of SL. I also carryover the max on AL, too. No thought of the CSRS retirement aspect ever entered my mind when I started saving, nor do I think about it today as I get closer to retirement. Sick leave abuse is just abuse and employees need to stop making excuses for such abuse. My point is that the abusers are not really concerned about the retirement outcome, they are simply not following the rules and trying to find an "out" for their bad behavior. And stop comparing the two retirement systems. They are not the same, nor were they intended to be.
FERS and Sick Leave.
Claim Representative SSA Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:40 AM
I think FERS employees should be compensated for their unused sick leave when they retire. It would boost productivity in the workforce. If CSRS employees have a problem with it, then maybe they should be allowed to invest a higher percentage of their pay in the TSP than they currently due, to balance the two programs. Both enhancements would help everyone in the process.
Re: FERS and Sick Leave.
HR DoD Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:09 AM
It's only money. Why should we care? We don't make a profit anyway. Perhaps "they" should also give us an across the board raise of 20% of so. If the taxpayers don't like it, tough. Do the ingrate taxpayers think we are here to help them or to enrich ourselves? Let them get another job if they don't have enough money. Their average household income is now about $42,000 and the average federal employee makes about $62,000 per person. Why should they care how much we make anyway? We want it and we are entitled!!!!
Re: FERS and Sick Leave.
General Engineer DOT Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:00 AM
We are also taxpayers and have family and bleed red blood as well. No one is asking for us to be enriched. Most of us became employed by Uncle Sam to serve our country. But we also have lives like anyone else and we also deserve to be treated with respect, just like anyone else.
Waiting for the big one!
Normal Government Employee VA Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:38 AM
I'm well past retirement eilgibility; so, I'm just waiting for the big "heart attack." Then I will milk my 1.5 years of sick leave only to retire when it runs out.
sick leave
consumer safety officer Dept of agriculture Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:45 AM
sick leave is really there to be use to keep someone from spreading diease and for convalsing at home from mental and phyiscal ailments. but I disagree with not having the oppurtunity to rollover my annual leave. But I can do this with sick leave that I earn every pay period. so the jealous newbees that say rules are rules there are some that can and will be changed. just look at what happen to to csrs and fers. Each has its perks but for so long the private sector has more pay and the government has more safety and job security. So investing in your own is not a crime but should be a honor. I know investing in Iraq isn't cheap.
S/L
Engineer DON Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:10 AM
For the record I have never taken S/L that was not legitimate. I have never ever used S/L inappropriately.
I have come into work too many times when I have had legitimate excuses to stay home. Why? At the time I thought that the work was more important than my aches and pains. If my management decides to take a strict interpretation of the definition of S/L then so will I. Deadline be damned: next time my arthritis flares up - I’ll stay home; next time I OD on yard-work and my muscles are sore - I’ll stay home; next time I have the sniffles - I’ll stay home; headache – I’m out of here.
FERS Sick Leave
Analyst IRS Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:53 AM
The mis-match here with the FERS sick leave program is the inability of FERS employees to donate this type of sick leave to those who really need it. Yes, you can donate regular leave to those who need sick leave, but this is apples to oranges.
Checking the Employee Suggestion Program on this issue, many have suggested this same concept, only to be turned down without any explanation whatsoever. So much for employee suggestions and employee satisfaction.
Use of Sick Leave Under FERS
Program Analyst DLA Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:05 AM
A comment on some of the inputs to this subject from HR Specialists, some of the HR folks need to lighten up. The level of and intensity of the threats submitted as open comments really made me feel that the HR individuals and possibly some managers have an axe to grind. The single idea that threatening people in order to get them to act in a specific manner is inappropriate, it often will generate the opposite result. Too many comments appeared to indict FERS employees as abuses who would be caught and punished. This is patently wrong and I hope that such draconian measures are not contemplated as we move toward a NSPS environment. Working together to identify common goals and expected outputs seems to me to be a better method rather than threats and punishment.
Re: Use of Sick Leave Under FERS
ER Navy Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:30 PM
I don't think the HR comments are threats. They are only responses to those that think there are no consequences for picking and choosing which rules they wish to follow this week. If you get stopped for going 70 in a 35 mph zone, do you tell Mr. Officer, I don't like the speed limit here so I'm going to go as fast as I want? Maybe the rules do need to be changed, but your responsibility is to follow them until they are, or possibly suffer the consequences. Elementary.
It's the HR people that your supervisors go to for assistance in dealing with such issues as leave abusers. Therefore, you will see such comments. We've been picked on for years, we can take it. We always get labeled as the bad guy, but it's really your supervisor that wants to take the action.
SICK LEAVE
Program Support Assistant Dept of Veterans Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:08 PM
An area of concern that wasn't addressed was the use sick leave when annual leave is disapproved or approval granted the day prior of start date. The facility I work for by union agreement is #1 seniority and #2 approval. Therefore, the old timers take the same holidays year after year and/or approval does not allow for adaquate planning. Having worked as a supervisor in other agencies for over twenty years I am sad to say that first line supervisors/middle mangers are not properly trained, do not take time to consult with labor relations personnel, basically make up rules. They are of the opinion VA policy and procedures override OPM federal regulations. I do not condone sick leave abuse however I understand the employees point of view
Sick Leave- FERS, correcting misperceptions.
Old Geeser Papaer Pusher DOE Thu Feb 1, 2007 1:33 PM
I was a CSRS employee, left and came back right after the “transitional retirement program” began. Newer FERS and a lot of CSRS Feds don’t know about that. Alas, I wound up in the transition which converted to FERS. I know both systems.
At one time CSRS employees lost ALL sick leave at retirement. About-to-retire Feds took a lot of sick leave, more than when they were younger. Hard to prove misuse, & not good for productivity. So in the 1970’s it was changed to current practice. Attendance improves. Along comes the crises in Social Security etc. in the early 1980, and fixes to SS and a new Fed retirement program start; eventually FERS is created. FERS was set up so that if a FERS Fed deposited 5% in the TSP w/ matching $, his retirement plus SS plus TSP $ would be about equal to CSRS IF they had saved 5% w/o matching $. Any other comparison is not valid. Then some bright folks decided to save some $ by reverting on the sick leave issue. It ws not part of the trade off.
sick leave rules change
manuel labor worker Army-Cililian Sun Feb 4, 2007 8:53 AM
I would be more apt to save my sick leave, legally used or not, if I knew it would be returned into a common pot and not lost to the system.
Sick Leave Abuse
Forestry Technician USDA - Forest Service Mon Feb 5, 2007 4:21 PM
Looks Like question #4 is 85% should be changed. OPM needs to look at this.
Sick Leave
Data Transcriber IRS Atlanta GA Thu Feb 8, 2007 9:58 PM
I think sick leave should be the same as annual leave. I worked for it, I earned it, and I should be able to use it if I'm out sick, whether for a minor illness, or major. A manager is not medically qualified to sit in judgement of an employee who does not come to work due to illness. The NTEU contract is clear about the "three days" rule requiring a doctor's note. However, one is not required to produce medical documentation before that time, and this is frequently abused by management at my office. I also think that ANY medical documentation should ONLY be kept by health personnel on-site, and NOT by management. This too, is frequently abused at my office.
use of sick leave
supervisor VA Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:20 AM
I think that there should be a incentive in place to prevent abuse. Maybe pay half for each hour accumulated! Come up with something to prevent SL abuse. The survey spekas loudly. HR should listen.
Re: use of sick leave
HR Navy Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:51 AM
HR doesn't make the rules. Send your request to your congressmen and senators. The same for those concerning using sick leave under the Leave Transfer Program. Agencies don't make the rules/policy, congress does. OPM is tasked with putting out the implementing guidance. Your individual offices can only follow the guidance given.
SL abuse
SR Analyst NASA Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:33 PM
Is it truly a benefit if it has no value to the owner?
I notice in the article that the employees’ ethics are under question. Not the organization, or the managers of those organizations.
I cannot imagine a company promising to provide a defined benefit (sick leave) and not allow the recipient to use that benefit. To me, it appears that the Fed Govt is appropriating my earned “property” without any due compensation.
It is a good thing that civil servant managers are under no obligation to uphold the Constitution.
On a less inflammatory note, my agency’s policy on leave donation excludes the ability to donate any unused sick leave. I am sure that the transplant, dialysis, and leukemia patients at my center could benefit from paid time that I will not be allowed to use myself.
Finally, when I resign as a mid-level GS13 with an unusable SL balance of 550 hrs, can I claim the approximate $24,000 as some sort of un-reimbursable business expense? This would be well over the 2% AGI threshold….. Anyone in the IRS (reading this while on SL) have a thought on this?
Sick Leave Credits
Window Clerk USPS Fri Mar 2, 2007 6:41 PM
Fers people get screwed with sick leave. If you're a good worker a take a day or two every few years, you'll get a letter of warning. Wheras if you abuse it all the time; you're treated like a King or Queen, because management is afraid of you.
Sick Leave
HR Specialist IRS Fri May 11, 2007 5:00 PM
It is wrong to use sick leave for other than approved purposes - regardless of whether you are under CSRS or FERS. However, I would like to know the actual reason that CSRS employees have their sick leave used in their retirement computation and FERS employees do not before I decide whether or not I think FERS employees should also receive this benefit. I know that FERS employees received Social Security benefits that CSRS employees are not entitled to, and if this is the offset for that benefit, so be it. I can't imagine laws changing so that CSRS employees could receive survivor Social Security benefits. It would be nice if everyone could have every benefit, but not likely.
Re: Sick Leave
AIR RESERVE TECHNICIAN BARKSDALE Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:31 AM
the reason fers people get social security is they pay into it and csrs people dont ,you have the option to get into fers, so do it if you want social security,if not enjoy your sick leave you get paid for,because fers won,t get paid for their sick leave
S/L
ATCS DOT/FAA Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:31 PM
Sick leave should be considered a form of protection and needs to be banked and used sparingly, the public is paying for those days and we need to be good stewards of there trust.
FERS - Unused Sick Leave - Donate to Bank
Test Control Officer USAF Thu Sep 6, 2007 9:40 AM
I agree, sick leave should not be abused.
I agree, accrued sick leave under FERS should not be counted toward service time as in CSRS.
What I highly disagree about is the idea that I DO NOT HAVE THE CHOICE TO BE ABLE TO DONATE MY UNUSED SICK LEAVE HOURS TO A CENTRALIZED LEAVE DONOR BANK so other employees who need donated leave would be able to use my UNUSED SICK LEAVE HOURS upon my separation/retirement from Federal Civil Service.
Why hasn't anyone looked at the issue of one having a choice to donate one's accrued sick leave hours to a donor bank upon separation/retirement?
Where do I go from here to bring up my concern?
Sick Leave
Air Traffic Controller FAA Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:46 AM
As an air traffic controller I can sell it back at 40% when I retire or use at 100% while I am working. Just like many, many other employees I have no loyalty to my employer or the taxpayers. If I feel I need to take a day off to relax, I do it and have no qualms about it. If they don't want me to use it, take away the sick leave benefit. If you don't look out for yourself no one else will!!
Medications
Air Traffic Controller FAA Sun Sep 9, 2007 10:21 AM
Many medications that most employees can take and still perform their jobs are prohibited for Air Traffic Controllers, yet controllers are subject to the same scrutiny of "sick leave usage". Therefore controllers are either working under less than 100 percent of their ability or they work using medication without anyones knowledge, both are dangerous senarios.
job requirements
Air Traffic Controller FAA Sun Sep 9, 2007 1:15 PM
As an air traffic controller, it is neccessary to perform at 100% all of the time. Many other jobs can be performed even when you aren't at 100% performance ability. Mistakes in my job have the potential of being much more costly than in most jobs. I've got about 1200 hours after 15 years so I'm clearly not abusing my SL. However, I may actually be abusing the public trust more by coming in to work when I don't feel well rather than getting the needed rest. Arguably, in a job like mine, perhaps there should be a different standard for acceptable use of SL. If I'm not at 100% am I really providing the public a service by coming in to work when I am going to be more prone to making mistakes?
Use or Loose sick leave.
Engineer BOR Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:20 AM
This comment is for the FERS whiners. Lets say that you had 1-year of sick leave that equates to 2% of your high three, and for example your high three was $50,000. 2% of $50,000 equals $1,000. It would take you 50 years to make back the $50,000. I would trade this 2% any time for the matching funds that you get on your TSP plus full SS.
Sick Leave
Technical Writer USAF Nuc Wpns Center Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:52 AM
I will trade a FERS employee my sick leave for their TSP funds any day!! If I had only known.
FERs Sick Leave
QAR DCMA Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:54 AM
I believe that the FERS employees would feel better about giving up their sick leave at the end of their carreer if they were allowed to donate it as annual leave is allowed now to a needy fellow employee. Just as annual leave is a benifit, sick leave is also. Sick leave is given in lieu of pay.
SL vs AL... NOT, PTO - PAID TIME OFF
Program Analyst NASA Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:19 AM
Sick Leave is EARNED, just like Annual Leave is EARNED - CSRS legitimizes this fact. Stop trying to regulate workforce morality and ethics - redefine both Leave catagories as PAID TIME OFF and let people manage their own affairs in their own manner according to their own lives, priorities, risks and timelines - live, and let live. Get over it! In the event of catostrophic sickness / illness, you'll use every bit of any, or all, kinds of leave you have available anyway and when they're all gone, you'll end up in LWOP status just the same - been there, done it! I'm a mature, adult professional and can easily handle managing my own Paid Time Off, without anyone else's help, permission and/ or review, thank you very much!! It's such a minor concern in the grander scheme of things - let it go.... stop fussin' and fightin' over noise level issues and quit judging and telling others how to live!! You take care of you & yours and I'll take care of me & mine - that's the way it works!!
FERS sick leave
An employee who is ready to GO. Let me Out now! IRS Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:56 AM
Why are FERS employees being treated differently than
CSRS? As a FERS employee I have earned my leave as an employee for 28 years. I am sick and tired of government wasting money trying to change something
that should be treated on an individual bases. Managers, if you know that the employee are abusing leave regardless if they are a FERS and or CSRS employee then you need to deal with it. I have about 50 hours of sick leave. You know why. My mother has Alzheimer and my last relative on my father side has been in and out of the hospital 12 times during 2007 and while I am typing this comment I am sitting around individuals who have nothing else to do but talk talk talk
non stop and I am trying to do the job that I am getting paid to do.
Some of us are getting older and things do fall apart and our tolerance level is not the same as it was 20 years ago. So now you know why my sick leave is low.
My sick leave
Equipment Specialist DON Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:53 AM
Annual or sick leave is part of a contract, I don't see anything about earning if this or that , or if management likes you, I seen CRS management take their last year on sick leave before retirement. It should be changed to just leave and used how ever you want. My leave is my leave according to the contract that I earn that leave no one gives it to me. They want get back any sick leave from me, I see it ever year burnt before personnel retire CRS and FERS and is it written that you can't take Sick Leave at management discretion when they do. I get paid by the hour.
Leave Abuse
Senior Special Agent DHS Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:14 PM
Earlier in this series you stated that the current situation was unforseen by Congress when they wrote the FERS pension law. That seems a little implausable considering that they dealt with exactly the same situation with CSRS, and addressed it by compensating employees in their pension. I think as typical politicians it was easier to put the issue off and let others deal with it twenty years down the road.
Comparison CSRS v. FERS Sick Leave Use Misleading
IT Specialist NRCS Mon Feb 4, 2008 10:58 AM
I have seen many references to studies that show that CSRS employees use less sick leave than FERS employees. They all conclude that FERS employees cheat because they don't get credit for unused sick leave.
But there is another factor. When I am sick (FERS), I use sick leave. When a CSRS employee is sick, or has a doctor's appointment, he may use annual leave instead, especially if there is any chance of loosing annual leave at the end of the year. I personnally new a person who used annual leave instead of sick leave for this very reason.
FERS employees may be more likely to stay home when they "don't feel very good", instead of "toughing it out" at work. However, any comparison of sick leave use between FERS and CSRS employees must take into account the "annual leave abuse" commited by CSRS employees who use annual leave instead of sick leave to avoid loosing annual leave.
Re: Comparison CSRS v. FERS Sick Leave Use Misleading
union worker usda Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:18 PM
when did it become abuse to use your annual leave for sick days?
Re: Comparison CSRS v. FERS Sick Leave Use Misleading
Hugh Moody - retired CSRS Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:24 PM
Using annual leave to take care of illness-related matters is NOT an abuse, but a prudent way to save sick leave for periods of serious illness, if an employee is in a "use-or-leave" situation. Early in my Federal career, I was advised by my organization's secretary to use annual leave in lieu of sick leave when possible, since annual would eventually be lost, but sick accumulates. I followed that advice as much as possible during my career. Ultimately, it's the employee's choice, if they have enough leave to cover it, whether to take sick vs. annual; also, comp time and credit hours earned can be used in lieu of sick since they, too, are eventually lost.
My Sick Leave
Information Systems AFMC Tue Feb 5, 2008 7:12 AM
Need I say more, I earn 4 hours of sick leave a pay period. When and why I take it is between me and my supervisor. Nuff said.
ABOUT HR PEOPLES COMMENTS
MAILHANDLER USPS Sat Mar 8, 2008 8:09 PM
these people sound very much like ford and gm when unions were trying to help the worker. since when is a plan that becomes punitive and demonstates the greed of the upper managerial class a sound reason for not allowing a benefit to berealigned.the selfish tone by many of them is grating and displays an absolute disdain for the worker.the change to fers was not one a union was involved in negotiating.if your choice is take it or leave it, does this intimate you can never change.how immoral and crass a thought.i believed we were advanced in treatment of our fellow man.sadly those remarks place the country back in the stone age when it comes to dealing fairly and equally with the lower income.of course there is the issue of how well off elected officials are when it comes to voting in their benefits and retirements.their incomes and such are not subject to the same derision but are simply explained as the cost of running the government.this seems to put a two class system in place
Re: ABOUT HR PEOPLES COMMENTS
Worker DoD Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:33 AM
Yeah, the unions helped the Ford and GM workers alright; right out of their jobs and in a lot of instances, out of their pension plans. There is nothing about this issue that is reflects disdain for the worker. It's simply a matter of following the rules given and not abusing your leave, no matter what retirement system you are under.
Re: ABOUT HR PEOPLES COMMENTS
MAILHANDLER USPS Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:26 PM
RE: the DoD worker reminds me of the mangers of both GM and the USPS.the unions did not help people out of jobs.you should read up on the mistakes and greed of the managment, who in a private company aredriven by short term profits over long term decisions to aid the worker, the company and the stock holders.attendance is a problem that needs to address the absentee and not punish the attendee. remember the adage that honey attracts more bees than vinegar.the worker needs to be compensated for loyalty and quality also.the selfishness implied in your statement says a lot about you and your misinformed judgement of the situation.the present system affects people for the rest of their lives and not necessarily in a positive manner. please note how much your senators and representatives get for doing less time working for the same govenment and the wonderful retirement they have along with great medical. why do they deserve so much morethan the rest of us?
sick leave
Claims Representative Social Security Administration Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:31 PM
I feel strongly that a change needs to be made in the FERS system in regards to some incentive for using sick leave honestly. Yes, it feels like good insurance to have accrued sick leave available, just in case it is needed for unforeseen illness of self or spouse, but it feels like a cheat to have it disappear into thin air at retirement. I read one opinion that retired FERS employees could have a slight reduction in health insurance premiums, based on hours accrued. That would be an appropriate incentive. Another idea--a recent retiree said to me that she had thought it could be donated to someone who needed it. How about that--what if we could donate our unused sick leave to those having medical emergencies who had exhausted their own leave? I think it only should be done the last few months before retirement, in case the individual became ill.
Doesn't exist honesty
Timekeeper US DOE Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:11 AM
Everyone, should it be more honest and work the total of hours assigned and have Supervisors have better control for this issue, because is not fair that only few work completing their eight hours or flexi-schedules and others simple don't care. This is consider to take advantage and cheating to the Government.
Leave use
Program Analyst VHA Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:19 AM
I'm a FERS employee, but we all know CSRS is the better
retirement system. Why else would congress have changed CSRS to FERS if it didn't save money by providing a reduced benefit. If I need extra sick leave, I know that because I have many friends that would donate sick leave I am not fearful of running out of sick leave. Given the stressful work enviroment we all work in
mental health days are a must.
Re: Leave use
Engineer DoD Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:39 PM
I'd take FERS over CSRS any day. Why? Because CSRS is 100% funded the same way social security is funded, by annual Congressional appropriations. There is no social security "trust fund" and there is no CSRS "trust fund" or other account. I think people that believe that CSRS annutiants won't take the same hit as social security will take in the future will have a rude awakening. At least in FERS, I have the option of a TSP account that has real money in it that actually belongs to me.
FERS Sick leave usage
medical technologist Dept. of VA Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:21 AM
I get the impression that the CSRS employees who don't think it is okay for FERS employees to use sick leave as "mental health" days take advantage of being able to get some benefits of FERS (getting the before taxes benefit of contributing to TSP). Why be so ethically "black and white", and no grey about another person's leave. If they abuse it and then don't have it when they need it, they face the possiblity of leave without pay. So, therefore, they will be punished. If a FERS employee wants to use sick leave for mental health, it is their business!
Some of these folks really do need to take a reality check. They are so use to the system taking care of them, they forget how the majority of U.S. citizens live in the private sector. I've always been very gratefull for the sick leave and have over 1400 hours built up. Even after after using close to 200 hours when both parents were dying of cancer in 2005. As I grow older and small medical issues happen, kids, etc., it is a great disability program and more-and it is free! I don't contribute to the voluntary leave program just for the reasons stated by some, by your survey statistically almost 4 out of 10 asking for assistance have abused their own sick leave!!
Sick Leave
Rural Letter Carrier US Postal Service Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:46 PM
I do not abuse my sick leave, just because I have a hard time lying to my supervisors. That being said, I feel cheated when my supervisors limit my sick leave to one day every month. If we exceed that limit, we are called into the office and questioned like we are quilty of a crime. Since I live in an area that is seasonal, I use sick leave in the summer, when an appointment is easier to get, and subs are looking for the work. So I do all my yearly check-ups at the same time, and get the same inquistion and lecture every year.
I see sick leave as a benefit that we earned. If we did not have "sick leave", we would be paid differently. So if they wanted to really budget it right, they should give us the money up front, and let us save at our own discretion. While I know I would handle that, I am sure that many of my fellow workers would be starving through any major illness.
Sick leave use or lack of by CSRS vs FERS
IT Specialist Interior Mon Aug 4, 2008 6:45 PM
I was with CSRS, then had broken service and had to be FERS. Over the years, I saw many CSRS employees come to work sick in order to save their SL towards retirement - it all adds up some would say. Many a times others would become ill thanks to that person who came to work when they shouldn't have. Has any survey been done to ask CSRS employees - (many who are already retired by now) how often they came to work instead of stay home when they were sick, just to save their SL? In the mean time spreading their sickness to several others. To me, that is just as bad, if now worse than taking a "mental health" day off - which I should, but haven't yet. My current workload and stress is several times what it used to be just 5-6 yrs ago, yet we continue to centralize and consolidate while "doing more with less". I already have over 30 yrs in, and I fear I will be using most of my SL by the time I retire (5-10yrs) due to the accumulated stress and all the health problems it will bring.
Re: Sick leave use or lack of by CSRS vs FERS
HR DoD Tue Aug 5, 2008 9:20 AM
With over 30 yrs service and 1500 hrs of sick leave, I can honestly say I didn't save my SL with thought of its potential reward in retirement. I saved it because it was the right thing to do and I never knew when I might need it as I get older. When I needed to take several weeks SL for surgery, I never had a financial worry since I was covered for the entire time. I don't come to work sick, but will admit that if I used the mental health day and the "just don't feel good" excuse that others use, I probably wouldn't have as much leave. Those are poor excuses for using SL, in my opinion. I guess my work ethic is different from others who take SL just because there's a cloud in the sky when they get up. That type of attitude prevails in everything they do, I suspect.
Contractor about to join the FBI
Senior Software Engineer FBI Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:55 AM
I am currently a contractor working at the FBI. With my company, we get "given" 40 hours per year of sick leave. We are "requested" to not use it unless we have to. I am so far this year up to 90+ hours in that "sick leave" pot by working more than 40 hours per week (sometimes we just need to in this job). We can only charge 40 hours per week by contract to the FBI.
We can use some of the excess over 40 hours as Personal Business time in the future (until financial year end when it all gets thrown away and another 40 hours pot is assigned) That part is more flexible in my perspective from a contractor POV than the FBI timecard charging system. The FBI system has it's own advantages. I don't abuse sick leave (as we don't get that much ) and it just seems wrong.
If and when I go to the FBI as a direct hire, I won't abuse it either.
FERS SICK LEAVE ABUSE
Production Controller ANG MT CLEMENS, MI Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:36 AM
I'm currently a Production Controller at a Air National Guard Base in MI. I am with the CSRS retirement system, I have only had to use sick for maternity leave, I also recieve 8 hours of leave per pay period for annual leave, with this leave I'm usually searching for someone to donate annual leave to at the end of the year, since we can only carry over 240 hours. I do not judge the person who may recieve any leave I'm trying to donate, I don't ask if they be FERS or CSRS. Everyone should use the sick leave for it's intent, using it for anything else is dishonest, however I have heard supervisors and employees trying to make the case that they are under FERS and will not get anything for it when they retire, so they use it for anything they want.
CSRS Sick leave credit
Supervisor Retired USPS Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:46 AM
I always considered CSRS sick leave as an insurance policy as I had a wife and four kids to support. I seen USPS employees use all their sick leave and then have a serious illness and request advanced sick leave. The usual answer from the postmaster was sorry. At the same time, I seen supervisors near retirement find a doctor to use all their unused sick leave before retirement. I did not and as a result I was credited with an additional 1.5 years of service in my retirement pay. If I live til I am 135 years old, I will have recovered the unused sick leave value, so where is the justice.
FERS and sick leave
Planning specialist USDA Forest Service Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:16 AM
I view my accrued sick leave as an insurance policy - I could get hit by a truck any day. I do resent that CRS folks not only get credit for unused sick leave (many of whom make we FERS people sick because they won't stay home sick) but also the fact that they get a pension no matter how little they have personally saved. Not only do we FERS not get credit for accrued sick leave, but must rely on TSP mainly for retirement funding, which today is practially worthless. I'd like for all of us to get the same retirement benefits.
Sick Leave
Cotracting Officer DOD Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:17 PM
I have used very few hours of sick leave in the last 20+ years, having over 1600 hours accumulated. I believe that the FERS employees should receive some benefit for unused sick leave as the CSR employees do. TSP and the government matching amount is thought of as an offset, what about the CSR employees being allowed to vest in the TSP system ( without matching 5%), and still receive up to 65% of their wages as a lifetime benefit. I've been told to start using my sick leave whether I'm ill or not. I know of individuals that have been sick the last few years of Government service due to the hours of sick leave that they have accumulated. To prevent abuse the systems need to coincide on leave policies. I believe that there would be less sickness if FERS personnel would know that they would receive credit for their sick leave.
Re: Sick Leave
Quality Assurance Specialist DCMA Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:17 PM
65%? Better look again! WE CSRS'rs can pull down up to 80% if we work long enough. When I retire in 3 1/2 yrs I'll be getting 70%. I'm so glad I didn't swallow the hook when they tried to convince me to switch to FERS!
Use it appropriately
Force Development Specialist USAF Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:09 AM
I too often see folks who don't use sick leave when the need it. CSRS employees either come to work sick or use excess annual leave so they can accrue more credit for their annuity and FERS employees often work sick to bank their days for other things like a vacation that begins or ends with sick leave. Bottom line - if you have the time and you're not firing on all eight cylinders, stay home, use sick leave as it is intended and don't work the system.
Sick Leave
Director Rural Development Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:34 AM
At a time when it seems as if public trust of government is at an all time low, it is important as ever for us federal servants to do our part to maintain the public trust. The entitlement mentality and greedy nature of some needs to cease. The FERS sick leave rules act as disability insurance policy and no employees should violate those rules. I don't understand why some would feel compelled to lie about sick leave use. We should be thankful for having good jobs when so many are losing theirs.
Sick leave for FERS
Postmaster USPS Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:23 AM
Sick leave is listed as a benefit to employees. It has no benefit if it is not used. If the "benefit" were a deposit of cash into a saving account at the rate of $20.00 per hour X 13 days per year X 25 years, the "benefit" would be $52000. If you watched that increase every year, and then were told when you retired that since you didn't need it, now you can't have your "benefit" of $52000, how would you feel? I am thankful that I have this benefit, and I use mine when I am sick or at a Doctor. To be fair, I think that if we don't use our benefit during our time at work, we should be paid a lump sum when we retire. If we don't get the cash, we never had a benefit!
I retired as a FERS BLM employee in 12-31-03 and cashed in all of my sick leave which was at the maximum allowable. I never took sick leave in place of Annual vacation time. I think it is dishonest to use sick leave that way. I do think it is fair to allow unused sick leave for retirement computations, also retro-actively.
Rich
Sick Leave and FERS
Production Controller ANG MT CLEMENS, MI Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:00 AM
I'm a old timer on the CSRS plan, I can remember being a new hire when there was only the one plan and people still abused the leave. I had never heard of planning leave (fun trips...etc) and using sick leave. I think the members supervisors are just as guilty as the indivdual doing the abuse. Though I don't abuse my leave I do donate to people needing leave I don't judge them; if the cause is heartbreaking I donate to them. Perhaps they will learn from their prior mistake.
Sick Leave and FERS
Supervisor MEDCOM Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:07 AM
I agree w/you Production. I too am under CSRS X37 years. I have seen abuse even under this system. In fact we use to have a lottery on one employee. We would bet on what time each pay period she called in sick. The day was the tie breaker. So it really does not matter what system is in effect. In fact, I an really for the FERS getting the same as CSRS. I have two employees on leave restriction. Maybe this will be an incentive for them to keep a balance of sick leave instead of using as they accrue.
Use of sick leave.
GS 11 Coast Guard Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:19 AM
I hired on just at transition in the eighties, I missed the CSRS option and boy did I understand the cost. Everything else is mostly a wash but the sick leave not being treated the same was a serious cost to the employee. But it did help the budget, it felt like the private sector, where companies find ways to take little bits and pieces without the employee realizing what is going on until it is to late. In the end it would make millions in profit for the company while only taking pennies from the employee, well those pennies add up, and you lose dedication, and committment from the employees once this is realized, just like what happens towards the end of a FERS employees career, take your sick leave or just throw it away. They don't even give you the option to donate sick leave for those in need, you have to donate annual leave, though it is used for sick leave purposes by the recipient.
Sick leave in lieu of approved annual leave
Territory Manager IRS Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:02 AM
Because annual leave must be requested and approved in advance, if you need a mental health day, you just call in sick leave. No questions asked as long as it is within 2 hours of your start of TOD. This allows for the flexibility of taking a day when you suddenly have free time in your schedule.
FERS SICK LEAVE
AIR RESERVE TECHNICIAN BARKSDALE Mon Mar 9, 2009 9:15 AM
for the past 23 years i have worked with people who haved called in sick for no reason but to have a paid day off ,between 3 people they have like 90 hours between them sick leave .and just out of spite i will use my 990 hours s/l and stay at home and start my retirement 6 months early,with leave leave that i earned and will use,if you give most people 13 days most will use it human nature,reduce sick leave to 8 days and you might avoid sick leave abuse
Sick Leave fun
AIR RESERVE TECHNICIAN BARKSDALE Wed Apr 1, 2009 2:50 PM
After thinking about how unfair it would be to my fellow workers,I will not use my sick leave and just let it go,even though everyone else has used it,i will let 1000 hours of sick leave go,i would rather come to work and not watch tv while on sick leave, april fools, just kidding,I will use every last minute to the last second.
Re: Sick Leave fun
AIR RESERVE TECHNICIAN BARKSDALE Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:39 PM
I am glad people like him are leaving,if he would just use his leave like every one else, one day each week on a monday or friday,and just watch maury povish on tv he would not have 900 hours to worry about.
Entitlement
Supervisor Department of the Navy Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:59 AM
I spent 10 years on active duty before opting for the opportunity of the civilian sector. After five years in the "Eden" of civilian employment, I was fortunate enough to be rehired as a civil servant (with a nominal pay reduction). Why would I return to government service for 2000 dollars less gross income? The benefits. The family health insurance with the "unreasonable" 25 dollar copay cost me $296 per payday. Working as a salary employee, I was required to put in 45 hours a week (it was usually 55-60 hours, uncompensated). I got holiday pay for Christmas and New Years Eve (sometimes we took other holidays off, but they extended the rest of the workdays to compensate, no overtime because holiday pay didn't count towards it). I got 40 hours of vacation after my first year of employment. If I was sick, I went to work, or I lost a day of pay. After 8 months of employment, my leave balances are 68 hours AL and 49 hours SL.
FOLLOW THE RULE OF STATE EMPLOYEES
AFGE UNION VP SSA and AFGE Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:34 AM
I live in CT. When you retire from state and local govt, you do not get credit in your computation, but you are paid dollar of dollar, 100% of your accumulated sick leave. This is the ONLY fair way to do it. This would encourage people to save for retirement and reward them for not sicking out. Note that any number of days in excess of but less than a month of comp credit for CSRS are lost. Hence CSRS employees tend to sick out towards the end.
Allow us all to use sick leave to transfer under the voluntary leave transfer program.
In closing, in CT, federal employees are at the bottom of the barrel below state and local employees in holidays, pension computations, use of OT in computation, and health insurance costs and coverage.
FERS FLUE
Management Assistant Internal Revenue Service Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:25 AM
I still thing that they should not be allowed to take sick leave when they feel like it even if they are not sick.
Most of them take one or two days which do not require a doctor note. However with the cost of doctor visits now, I don't blame them for not wishing to stay the third day and get a note, unless they are really really sick.
Now these who use their sick leave because the have earned it and stay out to keep the balance low because they will not get it when they retire.
Now they are the ones who when get sick for a long period of time and have no leave to keep a salary coming in, they want all of us to donate our annual leave so they can have a income.
This policy is unfair to those who are under either system. The ones under FERS should have to keep a balance of sick leave before they are allowed to take leave unless it is doctor required or family medical leave to care for a seriously family member.
FERS draw gov assisitance in TSP, Soc Sec.
CSRS are penali
disability
accoutning technician dfas -cleveland Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:29 PM
we really need to have some sort of disability. short term or long term. even if we were to work over all the time to accumulate credit hours it would take several months to even accumulate enough time to put toward recovery if you were to have a stroke, heart attack,or certain surgeries. Most recoveries are 2-3 months. with re-hab. I am aware of the donation program, but you never get enough time donated, and there are days where there is no money coming in. The prices on everything these days are sky rocketing, your bills stay the same, they still have to be paid whether you are working or not and we need to pay into disability, so we have it when we need it, for peace of mind.
Sick Leave
Investigator DOJ Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:06 PM
Why would anyone under the FERS plan give back their sick days when employees under the CSRS plan get credit for them? I am not the smartest person in the world but until Congress gives FERS employees an incentive not to abuse the sick leave, they will. Why give back anything to a government who only will in return give it to those who do not work?
FERS Sick Leave
Realty Specialist Dept of Veterans Affairs Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:25 AM
Every hour of "use or lose" sick leave burned up prior to retirement is an hour of full pay and benefits for which no work is received. That hour is counted as service time and is calculated toward a retirement annuity. An overwhelming majority of FERS employees will budget their sick leave to coincide with retirement., therefore, any reasonable person would conclude that it is practical to eleminate the "use or lose" provisions and actually receive work for the service time. A productive day at work, or a day of "FERS Flu" both count toward the retirement annuity. Counting unused sick leave toward the retirement annuity will not increase the annuity, but will avoid paying for work not received.
sick leave don't use it unless you need it,
paralegal SSA/ODAR Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:27 AM
I have to respond to the smug librarian who opined employees who run out of sick leave and request donated leave in the monthly messages are "yet another employee has exhausted all their leave and is in need of donated leave demonstrates to me that too many employees just throw away this valuable safety net" Are you aware that one month off the job is 80 hours of sick leave? You are very fortunate you and your family are healthy. My leave is gone because I had two surgeries last year and my husband was in intesive care for a month, and needed care when he came home. I not only used all my sick leave, but all my annual leave as well. Any time off for me is LWOP, so count yourself lucky, it could happen to you
SICK TIME ADDED FOR RETIREMENT
TRANSPORTATION SECURITY OFFICER TSA Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:36 AM
leo "law inforcement officers" get more for their retirement under fers vs non leos - but tsa pay is the lowest pay scale in the us government. we arent even in a gs pay classification- its under a pass system. i find it funny how some gs-8 plus employees say "thats too bad for you guys" i dont polish a seat. i do agree that if sick time is awarded for retirement then at least its earned/ dont think all you guys in government jobs - wont call in. when your time is near retirement that laughable. if you are in fers and if your smart you'll do it. 3 years in pay band e// will not help me when i retire (gs-7)if scaled. but at least its something. so as a front line worker at least i dont have lie!--new policy is written under the bush administration back in 2001. when it came to pay for transportation security officers it was appearently was too big for the little guy to handle. the solution was to pass the the buck under a pass system. not a gs system it would have been too easy!!!!!!!
sick leave
civil service barksdale afb Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:50 AM
the best thing the government did was not pay us for our unused sick leave ,if you are smart and use it at the end of your career you have a minnie vacation like 5 months before you retire gee i love upper management decisions .
Re: sick leave
civil service barksdale afb Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:02 PM
gee wiz i would feel guilty staying at home and watching t.v. or go fishing,or drinking beer while my fellow workers are at work ,working hard,but one way or the other i would learn how to live with it. a future retiree.
FERS and Sick Leave
Exec Asst AETC Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:04 PM
I believe that if you are sick and have sick leave one should use it. If at times you dont feel quite well and maybe not feeling up to par, but may be not really really sick, I think you should take a sick day if you have it. But I agree with the individual who said you earned and should use it when you need to otherwise you will eventaully lose it. But common sense comes into play as well, what if you use up all your sick leave and you get really sick what then? You must think ahead and ensure you still have plenty of sick leave for when necessary.
FERS Sick leave counting towards retirement
Postmaster USPS Wed Nov 4, 2009 10:48 AM
It might help down the line after 2014, however it is too little too late from congress as usual for those that are close to retirement at this time. Lets face it the aim for congress is to save as much as they can for themselves. That is why congress has exempted themselves from all of this. Should congress really want to set an example they should include themselves in the current retirement system that everyone else has, social insecurity for all.
lack of fairness
ET USPS Thu Nov 5, 2009 6:56 AM
postal employees retiring before 2014 will only receive
50 percent credit toward their accumulated sick leave
some one tell me how this is fair treatment
sick leave and mental health
DFAS
Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:29 AM
It is amazing how many people treat "mental health" like it is the plague! A lot of physical health problems could be eliminated if people would take "mental health" days. Most of the manifested sickness in the workplace began in the mind - disgruntled employees, people who see "unfairness" keep it in and keep smiling until they bust in the guts, have a stroke or a heart attack. Then it's okay to use sick leave. Then it's really okay to need a caregiver or place an added burden upon your family. Then it's okay to leave a widow or orphans behind. Then it's okay!!!!!!
Unfortunately, most people don't care and people who take a day to care for themselves because they know they need it have will have to carry the burden of being unethical and dishonest liars and cheaters.
It's not just about saving for a rainy day - it may not rain for years - but a sunshiny day can do wonders when the day is just overcast and cloudy!
Re: sick leave and mental health
OPM
Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:01 PM
Re: sick leave and mental health
Navy
Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:22 AM
Re: sick leave and mental health
DFAS
Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:05 AM
Re: sick leave and mental health
DoD
Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:14 AM
Re: sick leave and mental health
Navy
Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:24 AM
Re: sick leave and mental health
VA
Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:28 AM
I recall when I was in the US Army and stationed in northern Europe. It was winter. In northern Europe the nights are long in the winter. I worked in an office with the windows painted black. I did see the sun during the winter months. One day I came to work. I felt down, really down. I wanted to see the sun. I wanted to see sun light. I was complaining. I never thought that my supervisor would let me take the day off so I didn't ask. I had a good supervisor. He understood. He told me to take the day off. It was best day off in my whole life.
Re: sick leave and mental health
DoD
Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:51 AM
I also schedule doctor appointments for myself and daughter on days other than my day off. And, no, I won't expect anyone to donate sick leave as I have private disability and long term care insurance should I be ill beyond the 240 hours of annual leave and the + 400 hours of sick leave I keep "on the books".
Sick Leave
DOT
Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:30 AM
As I age, my ability to keep the same schedule as a twenty-something employee would seem to be something to keep in mind. I am disappointed when someone obivously abuses the system but (at my age) I am angered when I have to interact with peers who are ill. I am now getting glasses, hearing aids and flu shots. I didn't bother with these items until the age of 50. Those that have cancer or other devastating deseases should not be considered a problem. Take the older and the termanlly ill out of the mix and do the numbers still look bad?
If they do, then an incentived program is the answer. Those that fail to study history are doomed to repeat it.
It's Up to Congress
DOD/USAF
Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:49 AM
Countless times I have suggested to Congress that they allow us FERS retirees to convert unused sick leave into a cash lump sum, or add it to our pension annuity like the CSRS retirees. This would bring prudence to the whole thing. So far, no action!!
Sick Leave
hastings Indian Medical Center
Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:11 AM
Everybody is right about the abuse of sick, and who hurts when staff abuse their sick or annual leave, in our case the patients, your fellow staff and visitors get the short end of the stick. When staff abuse thier sick leave, that tells me they have no pride in their work and need to find another job that better suited for them. Only way this could be stop is have them get a doctors statement for relase and doctors statement to return to work after one day. I see alot of abuse for family leave, beacuse they can use up to 40 hours a year on family friendly.
Re: Sick Leave
DFAS
Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:26 AM
get off it
air force
Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:12 AM
you bore me and just keep on... basically, the old retirement plan gave people sick days and paid them if they did not use them. The new retirement plan uses social security which will be cut back sooner or later and only offers sick days to those who use them. You ride one issue and point fingers at the workers as if they have no ethics. I would put my money on the federal workers ethics against your ill willed ethics.
Re: get off it
DoD
Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:34 AM
I don't know how many responses are normally received but with the survey getting 1400 or so and 500 people writing in about it, in addition to the comments on this article, it seems like someone has hit a nerve and has exposed the abuse of the system that is going on. My guess is that the articles are here because there was a continuing interest in them. That is probably how the system should work so if one person is bored and wants to spend time spewing insults while a few thousand others find the subject of interest, life may be a bitch for the spewers and those with the flexible ethics.
flexible ethics
DoD
Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:15 AM
The commentator quoted in the article probably hit the nail on the head. Many Americans have apparently adopted a theory of "flexible ethics." The suggestion that each person should decide for himself whether it is right to take sick leave without regard to the regulatory requirements leads to the logical conclusion that each person is free to do whatever he feels like.
The other extension of this train of logic is that we, as federal employees, should have the best of both worlds. We get additional contributions to the TSP if we are in FERS and "should" also get additional retirement credit just like the CSRS folks because, after all, we have personally decided that is the right thing to do.
With no moral compass or with a moral compass that is infinitely flexible as suggested by this innovative commentator, we are undoubtedly in trouble as a society. Everyone do what you want and to hell with everyone else!
Re: flexible ethics
DFAS
Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:28 AM
CRAZY!
Re: flexible ethics
air force
Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:43 AM
- bank scandals, stock scandals, govt scandals
- the foreign debt increasing at $1.5 billion a day
- the mounting government debts, over $44 trillion
- the 75% of home mortgages backed by Fan Mae or Fred Mac
- the 2/3rds of couples having no children
- the loss of our manufacturing industry to other countries
- the record level of household indebtedness
- the Social Security benefit without funding
- the impoverishment of the middle class
SICK LEAVE
Navy
Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:36 AM
I have been with the Government almost 22 years and I missed CSRS by three months, so I am under FERS. I have about 500 hours of sick leave. While I do not abuse it, when the kids go to the doctor or dentist, I will take them based on this benefit. This is as opposed to my wife who does not get paid time off for this situation. When my kids were born, I took time off to be with my family. On days I don't feel great, I may take the day off as a FERS employee and whereas I may not have if I was a CSRS employee. I have off every other Friday, but I will not schedule doctor's appointments on that day. Bottom line, I don't abuse sick leave, but I do use it to the maximum extent possible within the allowable limits. There is no incentive to minimize usage.
Re: SICK LEAVE
Department of the Navy
Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:27 AM
Fers Sick Leave Usage
Puget Sound Naval Shipyard (formerly)
Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:46 AM
The thinking on the part of many of my coworkers, when I was retiring, was that I should use all my sick leave before I retired. I would still be working if that was the case. "terminal" sick leave is extremely difficult for Fers employees, though often used bt CSRS employees. I did take three days at a time, to both remain within guidelines and keep my shop off my back, but could not use up all my sick leave before retirement. I gave back over 100 hours of sick leave. My coworkers were mystified that I would not take all, but there came a time when I had more leave than days to work. I do not feel bad either way, using what I did, or giving back what I did. I'm just happy to be retired.
Sick Leave/leave sharing program
Probation
Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:57 AM
Another issue that I believe prompts employees to "abuse" their sick leave is the leave sharing program. While I'm glad it's there, many think even if they whittle down their leave, they can always be bailed out.
Re: Sick Leave/leave sharing program
Federal Agency
Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:07 AM
sick leave and 'pollen allergies'
DOJ
Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:09 AM
I agree that sick leave (or any type of leave) should not be abused; however, I disagree with the article's classification of what should not be classified as an illness. In fact, I felt the writer exuded the elitist, condescending attitude so common in the healthy. A "pollen allergy" is a sickness and is often debilitating to the sufferer. A recent medical study showed that an allergy to ragweed and other pollens not only causes physical ailments, but also causes a release of chemicals in the body which in turn causes depression---a mental illness. If a "pollen allergy" is not a sickness, then by that standard, an appointment with an allergy doctor is not an appointment with a legitmate doctor and doesn't qualify as an accepted sick leave request? And doesn't that mean that getting allergy shots also would not qualify? And what about allergy-induced asthma? or depression? The writer obviously has been fortunate in his health, but clueless concerning the suffering of others.
Re: sick leave and 'pollen allergies'
DOT
Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:09 AM
Working with Sick Employees
DOI - Minerals Management Service
Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:15 AM
The other side of the problem -
Sick employees showing up to work is persistent and costing $180 billion a year; more HR execs are taking notice.
January 26 2007: 9:53 AM EST
NEW YORK (Reuters) -- Practically every workplace has one - the employee who comes to the job aching, coughing and sneezing.
So-called "presenteeism," or going to work when sick, is a persistent problem at more than half of U.S. workplaces and costs U.S. business a whopping $180 billion a year, research shows.
Like its more notorious counterpart absenteeism, it takes on growing importance as employers try to keep an eye on productivity and the bottom line, experts say.
"Employers are increasingly concerned about the threat that sick employees pose in the workplace," said Brett Gorovsky, an analyst at CCH, a Riverwoods, Ill.-based provider of business and corporate law information and a division of Wolters Kluwer.
"Presenteeism can take a very real hit on the bottom line, although it is often unrecognized
Sick or not sick
VA
Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:16 AM
The bottom line here is that each Agency has their own protocal. In the VA an employee can use up to 3 days of sick leave without providing written documentation of doctor care. After all, most peope don't always have to go to the doctor just because of the flu.
So, unless the Agency actually want's to invest "time and money" in following their employees around, get over it!!!!! Now if an employee chooses to submit a false doctor's statement, then there are grounds for fraud.
Advantage of Sick Leave Balance
USDA Forest Service
Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:16 AM
I was told once at a retirement seminar that an advantage for a FERS employee to maintain a large balance of sick leave is if you purchass "Disability Insurance" in case you get hurt off the job or have a medical illness that lasts a long time, is that your rates will be substantially reduced over the person that has little or no sick leave balance. If you currently have "Disability Insurance" but your insurer doesn't know that you have a large balance of Sick Leave built up, you probably need to discuss it with them or do some insurance shopping.
For the commenters that CSRS should get social security that doesn't apply because you didn't pay into SS. All of your contribution 7% went to CSRS, while with FERS their contribution of 7% was split between FERS and SS which is why FERS has a smaller % they payout.
For FERS employees that switched from CSRS there are different rules and you are eligible for credit of the amount of sick leave you had at the time of the switch.
Re: Advantage of Sick Leave Balance
DOT
Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:21 PM
Re: Advantage of Sick Leave Balance
DoD
Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:27 AM
Sick leave
DOJ
Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:36 AM
Let FERS employees add unused sick leave to their longevity time in service calculations at retirement and watch the sick leave abuse problem become a dramatically less serious concern.
OR
To save money give FERS employees the option to add unused annual leave AND unused sick leave to longevity credit at retirement and not pay FERS employees for unused annual leave. I could add one full year of service to my retirement calculations under such a plan.
Re: Sick leave
DOJ
Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:14 AM
Sick Leave Abuse
FAA
Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:52 AM
Great subject!!
I would like to see comments on "taking smoking breaks" when we non-smokers do not get any breaks!
Re: Sick Leave Abuse
Federal Agency
Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:36 AM
Look around you at the people sitting and chatting! That's taking a break whether you want to call it that or not!
Sick Leave Abuse
USDA Forest Service
Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:27 PM
I've never taken a sick day for myself in the nine years I've been employed. I have, however, taken a bunch of sick leave to care for my wife while she suffered from colon cancer. My supervisor was very generous and did everything possible to assign me work that I could do at home while I cared for her. I did use a bunch of sick leave, but not even close to the lower limit. I was able to be there when my wife passed away, all while remaining functional in my job while I was at home. I couldn't even fathom taking a sick leave day when I was not sick, but I sure believe in FMLA. Further, I couldn't fathom taking advantage of my supervisor's effort to help reduce the amount of FMLA sick leave I took by assigning me work I could do at home. When I wasn't doing work, I did use the FMLA sick leave. I spent many hours in the hospital in the cancer treatment center - all because I had it to take. I'm currently building it back up so that I have it available if I ever need it again.
Sick Leave and FERS: Leave Abuse? Justifiable Cheating? Flexible Ethics?
USDL
Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:54 PM
One individual wrote:
"Some form of incentive should be given to FERS employees to save their sick leave without abusing it as I have seen many employees not sick call in sick and when asked why, their comments are why save it; it doesn't count toward retirement like CSRS employees."
Here's an incentive: Investigate and discipline chronic sick leave abusers (FERS or CSRS) on a routine basis. Suspend them without pay or fire them. Its theft. Insurance companies have used fraud investigators for years because it pays. If people don't want to work for "The People" of the United States for the pay and benefits offered to them, without ripping us off, they need to find employment elswhere. If they don't want to go on their own accord, Uncle Sam should make the arrangements for them.
Sick Leave policy changes
DOT
Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:14 PM
I have been in all 3 retirement plans over my career with the federal government. I don't abuse my sick leave and I am glad that I haven't, because on two occassions, I really needed it to cover my time off from a bad accident and for major surgery. When I signed up, I realized that FERS would not get the benefit that CSRS employees get, but I also expected the other percs, i.e. yearly general increase (orginally advertised as two a year) would remain in tact as is. Now that the powers to be are changing the way we are to be paid, I don't think that they should stop there. They should revisit the accrued sick leave as adding to FERS retirees. Otherwise, they shouldn't tamper with the way we are paid.
Incentives for non-use of sick leave
Federal Agency
Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:18 PM
How much more of an incentive do you need than the fact that the federal government has no short term disability insurance, and that the CFR limits the use of sick leave? I'm really sick of people demanding bribes to do the right thing.
Sick leave
USACE
Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:38 PM
I agree that sick leave should not be abused, but you must find an incentive other than the "save it for a rainy day answer". I always read about other employees needing donated leave, but we aren't allowed to donate sick leave, and my annual leave is out of the question. So what does it matter who uses the sick leave. If I am at the end of my career and I have a large amount of hours saved, whats wrong with taking that amount of time off to enjoy retirement early,Its what we all work for.
flexible ethics
DOD
Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:10 PM
It would be interesting to know the percent of respondents who are FERS and CSRS. I suspect that the majority of the 65% who were against using FERS sick leave for other than intended, are those on CSRS. If some are so concerned about the ethics of the situation, let the CSRS folks do the right thing and change to the same system as FERS. The noble CSRS birds would change their tune in a hurry.
Re: flexible ethics
Federal Agency
Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:34 AM
Why would changing from CSRS to FERS be the right thing? When I started my career (and basically took my oath of office CSRS was the system in place). I chose not to switch to FERS and I'm the one who lives with that decision.
Now, when you came to the government and signed your oath of office FERS was the system in place and you were informed of that. You have no option but to live with it!
It's time to stop the whining and move on!
Apples & Oranges
DOE
Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:24 PM
My comment is more related to those commenting about FERS getting matching TSP and Social Security. Your comparing apples and oranges. You could get Matching TSP and Social security too if you're willing to give up 26% (or more if you get added sick leave) of your government annuity. FERS gets 30% at 30 years of service, you get 56% at 30 years of service. You also get 2% more for each year of sick leave. Keep your comments to the issue. The issue in not TSP or Social Security. The issue is the inequity of those who save their sick leave and get no credit for it!
Re: Apples & Oranges
Federal Agency
Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:40 AM
When CSRS folks took their oath of office (and technically signed an employment contract) they were advised of the benefits they had under CSRS. We have to live with what we have if we stayed in the system.
FERS folks also took their oath of office (and technically signed an employment contract) and they were advised of the benefits they would have under FERS. Live with it or get over it!
The system is not set up to allow FERS people the opportunity to opt in to CSRS -- CSRS is gone and the once the last CSRS person is paid the last dollar of their retirement this will no longer be an issue!
Sick Leave
BLM
Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:57 PM
I returned to work for the Govt 9/88 as a CSRS Offset. I switched to FERS to get the TSP matching. I lost 400+ hours of S/L when I resigned in 1980, but now have a balance of almost 1800 hours, accumulated since 9/88 when I was reinstated. With a maxi-flex schedule I don't have to use S/L for Doctor appointments etc.
I look at my accumulated sick leave as "income replacement insurance" with NO INSURANCE PREMIUM. I could be sick or laid up for over a year and receive my full paycheck.
With the Family Friendly Leave act, it seems that sick leave can be used for almost "any reason". Also with some people choosing to not make their medical condition "public", as a manager I feel I am not allowed to ask too many questions, or I could get in trouble. The leave donation program is being taken advantage of by some, since they failed to plan for the future.
I see BIG problems when lots of FERS employees start to retire if they are NOT given a good reason to NOT abuse their S/L!!!
Motivation for saving sick leave
Forest Service
Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:43 PM
One suggestion that I have not seen yet, but that I think might make using sick leave as if it were annual leave less attractive, would be to allow only a specified portion of the accrued sick leave to count toward retirement benefits, say 25% or 50%. That way there would be some extra motivation to keep sick leave banked and it would still be available for true health emergencies. FERS employees would only get a fraction of the retirement bonus that CSRS employees do, but even that fraction could be significant, and they still have the matching TSP contributions that the CSRS workers don't. have.
sick leave use of FERS employees
social security adm
Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:49 PM
Surprised to read all the comments. As a CSRS employee with 38 years, I have saved sick leave. I think some of the attitudes shown are due to generational differences. Younger employees accross the board feel less loyalty and perhaps less pride in their work than an older generation does. If they change the retirement system for FERS employees to count saved sick leave, then the government needs to change the Thrift savings plan. CSRS employees get no matching contributions like FERS employees do. This also affects retirement planning for employees.
Sick leave
CBP
Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:37 PM
Do the math. Under CSRS the guy that maxs out his retirement gets 2% for 2086 hours of sick leave (one year) So if he/she has a high three of say $50,000 he/she will get an additional $1000 per year in retirement. That means the person would have to live for 50 years in order to get the value those sick leave hours would have paid if he/she had taken the sick leave while working. Having said that, you have to pretty much be a complete idiot and very short sighted to use your sick leave as you earn it. Use it for dr. appointments etc. and when you are sick. Bank the rest and hope you dont need it. When you are close to retirement get all of your broken parts fixed. If you are young you likely dont think you will have any broken parts be you will. The only way to really keep people from abusing it is to pay them some percentage of their sick leave in cash when they retire. Money talks, bs walks.
Sick Leave Abuse
DOD
Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:44 AM
I have worked in HR for over 30 years and I know the value of preserving sick leave and using it as it was intended. I can't count the number of long term employees I have seen become suddently ill and have no leave to carry them though cancer treatments, car accidents, strokes, clinical depression, and the like. I also can't count the number of employees (CSRS and FERS) I have sucessfully removed from the Federal Service for abuse of sick leave. In the end sick leave is a benenfit, a form of insurance, and a security blanket against things we can not control. Abuse of sick leave is violation of the public trust, fraud, and a character flaw. Public servants agree to be held to higher standard and must act accordingly. We teach our children to be moral beings to do the right thing, but we then excuse the deceptions that we carry out because we find excuse for the bad behavior.
Sick Leave Usage
FSIS
Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:35 AM
I am on the FERS retirement system. I am a product of hard working parents who were disciplinarians. I also served in the US Armed Forces for fourteen years and am now employed by the USDA/FSIS. Sick leave should be treasured and used only when absolutely necessary.
I was coming home from work one day and was rear ended at a stop light. I had to have back surgery, rehabilitation and recovery time away from work.If I had not saved up my sick leave I would have been in debt and AWOL by Agency policy. You never know what the future has in store for you, that was something I didn't expect at all but it can happen to anyone of us.
I donate sick leave but only to colleages that I know are truly in need and did not abuse their own sick leave time.
SL Abuse
Navy
Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:45 AM
I have over 30 yrs Federal service and am CSRS. I readily admit that during my first few years as a civil servant I could probably have been considered a leave abuser. But, I started to save my leave in anticipation of illnesses, emergencies, etc. I've had to take weeks off for surgery, and have been able to use sick leave to care for family members and still received a paycheck. I have 1400 hrs of SL. I also carryover the max on AL, too. No thought of the CSRS retirement aspect ever entered my mind when I started saving, nor do I think about it today as I get closer to retirement. Sick leave abuse is just abuse and employees need to stop making excuses for such abuse. My point is that the abusers are not really concerned about the retirement outcome, they are simply not following the rules and trying to find an "out" for their bad behavior. And stop comparing the two retirement systems. They are not the same, nor were they intended to be.
FERS and Sick Leave.
SSA
Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:40 AM
I think FERS employees should be compensated for their unused sick leave when they retire. It would boost productivity in the workforce. If CSRS employees have a problem with it, then maybe they should be allowed to invest a higher percentage of their pay in the TSP than they currently due, to balance the two programs. Both enhancements would help everyone in the process.
Re: FERS and Sick Leave.
DoD
Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:09 AM
Re: FERS and Sick Leave.
DOT
Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:00 AM
Waiting for the big one!
VA
Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:38 AM
I'm well past retirement eilgibility; so, I'm just waiting for the big "heart attack." Then I will milk my 1.5 years of sick leave only to retire when it runs out.
sick leave
Dept of agriculture
Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:45 AM
sick leave is really there to be use to keep someone from spreading diease and for convalsing at home from mental and phyiscal ailments. but I disagree with not having the oppurtunity to rollover my annual leave. But I can do this with sick leave that I earn every pay period. so the jealous newbees that say rules are rules there are some that can and will be changed. just look at what happen to to csrs and fers. Each has its perks but for so long the private sector has more pay and the government has more safety and job security. So investing in your own is not a crime but should be a honor. I know investing in Iraq isn't cheap.
S/L
DON
Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:10 AM
For the record I have never taken S/L that was not legitimate. I have never ever used S/L inappropriately.
I have come into work too many times when I have had legitimate excuses to stay home. Why? At the time I thought that the work was more important than my aches and pains. If my management decides to take a strict interpretation of the definition of S/L then so will I. Deadline be damned: next time my arthritis flares up - I’ll stay home; next time I OD on yard-work and my muscles are sore - I’ll stay home; next time I have the sniffles - I’ll stay home; headache – I’m out of here.
FERS Sick Leave
IRS
Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:53 AM
The mis-match here with the FERS sick leave program is the inability of FERS employees to donate this type of sick leave to those who really need it. Yes, you can donate regular leave to those who need sick leave, but this is apples to oranges.
Checking the Employee Suggestion Program on this issue, many have suggested this same concept, only to be turned down without any explanation whatsoever. So much for employee suggestions and employee satisfaction.
Use of Sick Leave Under FERS
DLA
Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:05 AM
A comment on some of the inputs to this subject from HR Specialists, some of the HR folks need to lighten up. The level of and intensity of the threats submitted as open comments really made me feel that the HR individuals and possibly some managers have an axe to grind. The single idea that threatening people in order to get them to act in a specific manner is inappropriate, it often will generate the opposite result. Too many comments appeared to indict FERS employees as abuses who would be caught and punished. This is patently wrong and I hope that such draconian measures are not contemplated as we move toward a NSPS environment. Working together to identify common goals and expected outputs seems to me to be a better method rather than threats and punishment.
Re: Use of Sick Leave Under FERS
Navy
Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:30 PM
It's the HR people that your supervisors go to for assistance in dealing with such issues as leave abusers. Therefore, you will see such comments. We've been picked on for years, we can take it. We always get labeled as the bad guy, but it's really your supervisor that wants to take the action.
SICK LEAVE
Dept of Veterans
Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:08 PM
An area of concern that wasn't addressed was the use sick leave when annual leave is disapproved or approval granted the day prior of start date. The facility I work for by union agreement is #1 seniority and #2 approval. Therefore, the old timers take the same holidays year after year and/or approval does not allow for adaquate planning. Having worked as a supervisor in other agencies for over twenty years I am sad to say that first line supervisors/middle mangers are not properly trained, do not take time to consult with labor relations personnel, basically make up rules. They are of the opinion VA policy and procedures override OPM federal regulations. I do not condone sick leave abuse however I understand the employees point of view
Sick Leave- FERS, correcting misperceptions.
DOE
Thu Feb 1, 2007 1:33 PM
I was a CSRS employee, left and came back right after the “transitional retirement program” began. Newer FERS and a lot of CSRS Feds don’t know about that. Alas, I wound up in the transition which converted to FERS. I know both systems.
At one time CSRS employees lost ALL sick leave at retirement. About-to-retire Feds took a lot of sick leave, more than when they were younger. Hard to prove misuse, & not good for productivity. So in the 1970’s it was changed to current practice. Attendance improves. Along comes the crises in Social Security etc. in the early 1980, and fixes to SS and a new Fed retirement program start; eventually FERS is created. FERS was set up so that if a FERS Fed deposited 5% in the TSP w/ matching $, his retirement plus SS plus TSP $ would be about equal to CSRS IF they had saved 5% w/o matching $. Any other comparison is not valid. Then some bright folks decided to save some $ by reverting on the sick leave issue. It ws not part of the trade off.
sick leave rules change
Army-Cililian
Sun Feb 4, 2007 8:53 AM
I would be more apt to save my sick leave, legally used or not, if I knew it would be returned into a common pot and not lost to the system.
Sick Leave Abuse
USDA - Forest Service
Mon Feb 5, 2007 4:21 PM
Looks Like question #4 is 85% should be changed. OPM needs to look at this.
Sick Leave
IRS Atlanta GA
Thu Feb 8, 2007 9:58 PM
I think sick leave should be the same as annual leave. I worked for it, I earned it, and I should be able to use it if I'm out sick, whether for a minor illness, or major. A manager is not medically qualified to sit in judgement of an employee who does not come to work due to illness. The NTEU contract is clear about the "three days" rule requiring a doctor's note. However, one is not required to produce medical documentation before that time, and this is frequently abused by management at my office. I also think that ANY medical documentation should ONLY be kept by health personnel on-site, and NOT by management. This too, is frequently abused at my office.
use of sick leave
VA
Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:20 AM
I think that there should be a incentive in place to prevent abuse. Maybe pay half for each hour accumulated! Come up with something to prevent SL abuse. The survey spekas loudly. HR should listen.
Re: use of sick leave
Navy
Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:51 AM
SL abuse
NASA
Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:33 PM
Is it truly a benefit if it has no value to the owner?
I notice in the article that the employees’ ethics are under question. Not the organization, or the managers of those organizations.
I cannot imagine a company promising to provide a defined benefit (sick leave) and not allow the recipient to use that benefit. To me, it appears that the Fed Govt is appropriating my earned “property” without any due compensation.
It is a good thing that civil servant managers are under no obligation to uphold the Constitution.
On a less inflammatory note, my agency’s policy on leave donation excludes the ability to donate any unused sick leave. I am sure that the transplant, dialysis, and leukemia patients at my center could benefit from paid time that I will not be allowed to use myself.
Finally, when I resign as a mid-level GS13 with an unusable SL balance of 550 hrs, can I claim the approximate $24,000 as some sort of un-reimbursable business expense? This would be well over the 2% AGI threshold….. Anyone in the IRS (reading this while on SL) have a thought on this?
Sick Leave Credits
USPS
Fri Mar 2, 2007 6:41 PM
Fers people get screwed with sick leave. If you're a good worker a take a day or two every few years, you'll get a letter of warning. Wheras if you abuse it all the time; you're treated like a King or Queen, because management is afraid of you.
Sick Leave
IRS
Fri May 11, 2007 5:00 PM
It is wrong to use sick leave for other than approved purposes - regardless of whether you are under CSRS or FERS. However, I would like to know the actual reason that CSRS employees have their sick leave used in their retirement computation and FERS employees do not before I decide whether or not I think FERS employees should also receive this benefit. I know that FERS employees received Social Security benefits that CSRS employees are not entitled to, and if this is the offset for that benefit, so be it. I can't imagine laws changing so that CSRS employees could receive survivor Social Security benefits. It would be nice if everyone could have every benefit, but not likely.
Re: Sick Leave
BARKSDALE
Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:31 AM
S/L
DOT/FAA
Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:31 PM
Sick leave should be considered a form of protection and needs to be banked and used sparingly, the public is paying for those days and we need to be good stewards of there trust.
FERS - Unused Sick Leave - Donate to Bank
USAF
Thu Sep 6, 2007 9:40 AM
I agree, sick leave should not be abused.
I agree, accrued sick leave under FERS should not be counted toward service time as in CSRS.
What I highly disagree about is the idea that I DO NOT HAVE THE CHOICE TO BE ABLE TO DONATE MY UNUSED SICK LEAVE HOURS TO A CENTRALIZED LEAVE DONOR BANK so other employees who need donated leave would be able to use my UNUSED SICK LEAVE HOURS upon my separation/retirement from Federal Civil Service.
Why hasn't anyone looked at the issue of one having a choice to donate one's accrued sick leave hours to a donor bank upon separation/retirement?
Where do I go from here to bring up my concern?
Sick Leave
FAA
Sun Sep 9, 2007 4:46 AM
As an air traffic controller I can sell it back at 40% when I retire or use at 100% while I am working. Just like many, many other employees I have no loyalty to my employer or the taxpayers. If I feel I need to take a day off to relax, I do it and have no qualms about it. If they don't want me to use it, take away the sick leave benefit. If you don't look out for yourself no one else will!!
Medications
FAA
Sun Sep 9, 2007 10:21 AM
Many medications that most employees can take and still perform their jobs are prohibited for Air Traffic Controllers, yet controllers are subject to the same scrutiny of "sick leave usage". Therefore controllers are either working under less than 100 percent of their ability or they work using medication without anyones knowledge, both are dangerous senarios.
job requirements
FAA
Sun Sep 9, 2007 1:15 PM
As an air traffic controller, it is neccessary to perform at 100% all of the time. Many other jobs can be performed even when you aren't at 100% performance ability. Mistakes in my job have the potential of being much more costly than in most jobs. I've got about 1200 hours after 15 years so I'm clearly not abusing my SL. However, I may actually be abusing the public trust more by coming in to work when I don't feel well rather than getting the needed rest. Arguably, in a job like mine, perhaps there should be a different standard for acceptable use of SL. If I'm not at 100% am I really providing the public a service by coming in to work when I am going to be more prone to making mistakes?
Use or Loose sick leave.
BOR
Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:20 AM
This comment is for the FERS whiners. Lets say that you had 1-year of sick leave that equates to 2% of your high three, and for example your high three was $50,000. 2% of $50,000 equals $1,000. It would take you 50 years to make back the $50,000. I would trade this 2% any time for the matching funds that you get on your TSP plus full SS.
Sick Leave
USAF Nuc Wpns Center
Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:52 AM
I will trade a FERS employee my sick leave for their TSP funds any day!! If I had only known.
FERs Sick Leave
DCMA
Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:54 AM
I believe that the FERS employees would feel better about giving up their sick leave at the end of their carreer if they were allowed to donate it as annual leave is allowed now to a needy fellow employee. Just as annual leave is a benifit, sick leave is also. Sick leave is given in lieu of pay.
SL vs AL... NOT, PTO - PAID TIME OFF
NASA
Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:19 AM
Sick Leave is EARNED, just like Annual Leave is EARNED - CSRS legitimizes this fact. Stop trying to regulate workforce morality and ethics - redefine both Leave catagories as PAID TIME OFF and let people manage their own affairs in their own manner according to their own lives, priorities, risks and timelines - live, and let live. Get over it! In the event of catostrophic sickness / illness, you'll use every bit of any, or all, kinds of leave you have available anyway and when they're all gone, you'll end up in LWOP status just the same - been there, done it! I'm a mature, adult professional and can easily handle managing my own Paid Time Off, without anyone else's help, permission and/ or review, thank you very much!! It's such a minor concern in the grander scheme of things - let it go.... stop fussin' and fightin' over noise level issues and quit judging and telling others how to live!! You take care of you & yours and I'll take care of me & mine - that's the way it works!!
FERS sick leave
IRS
Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:56 AM
Why are FERS employees being treated differently than
CSRS? As a FERS employee I have earned my leave as an employee for 28 years. I am sick and tired of government wasting money trying to change something
that should be treated on an individual bases. Managers, if you know that the employee are abusing leave regardless if they are a FERS and or CSRS employee then you need to deal with it. I have about 50 hours of sick leave. You know why. My mother has Alzheimer and my last relative on my father side has been in and out of the hospital 12 times during 2007 and while I am typing this comment I am sitting around individuals who have nothing else to do but talk talk talk
non stop and I am trying to do the job that I am getting paid to do.
Some of us are getting older and things do fall apart and our tolerance level is not the same as it was 20 years ago. So now you know why my sick leave is low.
My sick leave
DON
Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:53 AM
Annual or sick leave is part of a contract, I don't see anything about earning if this or that , or if management likes you, I seen CRS management take their last year on sick leave before retirement. It should be changed to just leave and used how ever you want. My leave is my leave according to the contract that I earn that leave no one gives it to me. They want get back any sick leave from me, I see it ever year burnt before personnel retire CRS and FERS and is it written that you can't take Sick Leave at management discretion when they do. I get paid by the hour.
Leave Abuse
DHS
Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:14 PM
Earlier in this series you stated that the current situation was unforseen by Congress when they wrote the FERS pension law. That seems a little implausable considering that they dealt with exactly the same situation with CSRS, and addressed it by compensating employees in their pension. I think as typical politicians it was easier to put the issue off and let others deal with it twenty years down the road.
Comparison CSRS v. FERS Sick Leave Use Misleading
NRCS
Mon Feb 4, 2008 10:58 AM
I have seen many references to studies that show that CSRS employees use less sick leave than FERS employees. They all conclude that FERS employees cheat because they don't get credit for unused sick leave.
But there is another factor. When I am sick (FERS), I use sick leave. When a CSRS employee is sick, or has a doctor's appointment, he may use annual leave instead, especially if there is any chance of loosing annual leave at the end of the year. I personnally new a person who used annual leave instead of sick leave for this very reason.
FERS employees may be more likely to stay home when they "don't feel very good", instead of "toughing it out" at work. However, any comparison of sick leave use between FERS and CSRS employees must take into account the "annual leave abuse" commited by CSRS employees who use annual leave instead of sick leave to avoid loosing annual leave.
Re: Comparison CSRS v. FERS Sick Leave Use Misleading
usda
Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:18 PM
Re: Comparison CSRS v. FERS Sick Leave Use Misleading
CSRS
Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:24 PM
My Sick Leave
AFMC
Tue Feb 5, 2008 7:12 AM
Need I say more, I earn 4 hours of sick leave a pay period. When and why I take it is between me and my supervisor. Nuff said.
ABOUT HR PEOPLES COMMENTS
USPS
Sat Mar 8, 2008 8:09 PM
these people sound very much like ford and gm when unions were trying to help the worker. since when is a plan that becomes punitive and demonstates the greed of the upper managerial class a sound reason for not allowing a benefit to berealigned.the selfish tone by many of them is grating and displays an absolute disdain for the worker.the change to fers was not one a union was involved in negotiating.if your choice is take it or leave it, does this intimate you can never change.how immoral and crass a thought.i believed we were advanced in treatment of our fellow man.sadly those remarks place the country back in the stone age when it comes to dealing fairly and equally with the lower income.of course there is the issue of how well off elected officials are when it comes to voting in their benefits and retirements.their incomes and such are not subject to the same derision but are simply explained as the cost of running the government.this seems to put a two class system in place
Re: ABOUT HR PEOPLES COMMENTS
DoD
Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:33 AM
Re: ABOUT HR PEOPLES COMMENTS
USPS
Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:26 PM
sick leave
Social Security Administration
Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:31 PM
I feel strongly that a change needs to be made in the FERS system in regards to some incentive for using sick leave honestly. Yes, it feels like good insurance to have accrued sick leave available, just in case it is needed for unforeseen illness of self or spouse, but it feels like a cheat to have it disappear into thin air at retirement. I read one opinion that retired FERS employees could have a slight reduction in health insurance premiums, based on hours accrued. That would be an appropriate incentive. Another idea--a recent retiree said to me that she had thought it could be donated to someone who needed it. How about that--what if we could donate our unused sick leave to those having medical emergencies who had exhausted their own leave? I think it only should be done the last few months before retirement, in case the individual became ill.
Doesn't exist honesty
US DOE
Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:11 AM
Everyone, should it be more honest and work the total of hours assigned and have Supervisors have better control for this issue, because is not fair that only few work completing their eight hours or flexi-schedules and others simple don't care. This is consider to take advantage and cheating to the Government.
Leave use
VHA
Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:19 AM
I'm a FERS employee, but we all know CSRS is the better
retirement system. Why else would congress have changed CSRS to FERS if it didn't save money by providing a reduced benefit. If I need extra sick leave, I know that because I have many friends that would donate sick leave I am not fearful of running out of sick leave. Given the stressful work enviroment we all work in
mental health days are a must.
Re: Leave use
DoD
Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:39 PM
FERS Sick leave usage
Dept. of VA
Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:21 AM
I get the impression that the CSRS employees who don't think it is okay for FERS employees to use sick leave as "mental health" days take advantage of being able to get some benefits of FERS (getting the before taxes benefit of contributing to TSP). Why be so ethically "black and white", and no grey about another person's leave. If they abuse it and then don't have it when they need it, they face the possiblity of leave without pay. So, therefore, they will be punished. If a FERS employee wants to use sick leave for mental health, it is their business!
Sick Leave
FBOP
Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:43 PM
Some of these folks really do need to take a reality check. They are so use to the system taking care of them, they forget how the majority of U.S. citizens live in the private sector. I've always been very gratefull for the sick leave and have over 1400 hours built up. Even after after using close to 200 hours when both parents were dying of cancer in 2005. As I grow older and small medical issues happen, kids, etc., it is a great disability program and more-and it is free! I don't contribute to the voluntary leave program just for the reasons stated by some, by your survey statistically almost 4 out of 10 asking for assistance have abused their own sick leave!!
Sick Leave
US Postal Service
Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:46 PM
I do not abuse my sick leave, just because I have a hard time lying to my supervisors. That being said, I feel cheated when my supervisors limit my sick leave to one day every month. If we exceed that limit, we are called into the office and questioned like we are quilty of a crime. Since I live in an area that is seasonal, I use sick leave in the summer, when an appointment is easier to get, and subs are looking for the work. So I do all my yearly check-ups at the same time, and get the same inquistion and lecture every year.
I see sick leave as a benefit that we earned. If we did not have "sick leave", we would be paid differently. So if they wanted to really budget it right, they should give us the money up front, and let us save at our own discretion. While I know I would handle that, I am sure that many of my fellow workers would be starving through any major illness.
Sick leave use or lack of by CSRS vs FERS
Interior
Mon Aug 4, 2008 6:45 PM
I was with CSRS, then had broken service and had to be FERS. Over the years, I saw many CSRS employees come to work sick in order to save their SL towards retirement - it all adds up some would say. Many a times others would become ill thanks to that person who came to work when they shouldn't have. Has any survey been done to ask CSRS employees - (many who are already retired by now) how often they came to work instead of stay home when they were sick, just to save their SL? In the mean time spreading their sickness to several others. To me, that is just as bad, if now worse than taking a "mental health" day off - which I should, but haven't yet. My current workload and stress is several times what it used to be just 5-6 yrs ago, yet we continue to centralize and consolidate while "doing more with less". I already have over 30 yrs in, and I fear I will be using most of my SL by the time I retire (5-10yrs) due to the accumulated stress and all the health problems it will bring.
Re: Sick leave use or lack of by CSRS vs FERS
DoD
Tue Aug 5, 2008 9:20 AM
Contractor about to join the FBI
FBI
Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:55 AM
I am currently a contractor working at the FBI. With my company, we get "given" 40 hours per year of sick leave. We are "requested" to not use it unless we have to. I am so far this year up to 90+ hours in that "sick leave" pot by working more than 40 hours per week (sometimes we just need to in this job). We can only charge 40 hours per week by contract to the FBI.
) and it just seems wrong.
We can use some of the excess over 40 hours as Personal Business time in the future (until financial year end when it all gets thrown away and another 40 hours pot is assigned) That part is more flexible in my perspective from a contractor POV than the FBI timecard charging system. The FBI system has it's own advantages. I don't abuse sick leave (as we don't get that much
If and when I go to the FBI as a direct hire, I won't abuse it either.
FERS SICK LEAVE ABUSE
ANG MT CLEMENS, MI
Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:36 AM
I'm currently a Production Controller at a Air National Guard Base in MI. I am with the CSRS retirement system, I have only had to use sick for maternity leave, I also recieve 8 hours of leave per pay period for annual leave, with this leave I'm usually searching for someone to donate annual leave to at the end of the year, since we can only carry over 240 hours. I do not judge the person who may recieve any leave I'm trying to donate, I don't ask if they be FERS or CSRS. Everyone should use the sick leave for it's intent, using it for anything else is dishonest, however I have heard supervisors and employees trying to make the case that they are under FERS and will not get anything for it when they retire, so they use it for anything they want.
CSRS Sick leave credit
USPS
Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:46 AM
I always considered CSRS sick leave as an insurance policy as I had a wife and four kids to support. I seen USPS employees use all their sick leave and then have a serious illness and request advanced sick leave. The usual answer from the postmaster was sorry. At the same time, I seen supervisors near retirement find a doctor to use all their unused sick leave before retirement. I did not and as a result I was credited with an additional 1.5 years of service in my retirement pay. If I live til I am 135 years old, I will have recovered the unused sick leave value, so where is the justice.
FERS and sick leave
USDA Forest Service
Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:16 AM
I view my accrued sick leave as an insurance policy - I could get hit by a truck any day. I do resent that CRS folks not only get credit for unused sick leave (many of whom make we FERS people sick because they won't stay home sick) but also the fact that they get a pension no matter how little they have personally saved. Not only do we FERS not get credit for accrued sick leave, but must rely on TSP mainly for retirement funding, which today is practially worthless. I'd like for all of us to get the same retirement benefits.
Sick Leave
DOD
Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:17 PM
I have used very few hours of sick leave in the last 20+ years, having over 1600 hours accumulated. I believe that the FERS employees should receive some benefit for unused sick leave as the CSR employees do. TSP and the government matching amount is thought of as an offset, what about the CSR employees being allowed to vest in the TSP system ( without matching 5%), and still receive up to 65% of their wages as a lifetime benefit. I've been told to start using my sick leave whether I'm ill or not. I know of individuals that have been sick the last few years of Government service due to the hours of sick leave that they have accumulated. To prevent abuse the systems need to coincide on leave policies. I believe that there would be less sickness if FERS personnel would know that they would receive credit for their sick leave.
Re: Sick Leave
DCMA
Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:17 PM
Use it appropriately
USAF
Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:09 AM
I too often see folks who don't use sick leave when the need it. CSRS employees either come to work sick or use excess annual leave so they can accrue more credit for their annuity and FERS employees often work sick to bank their days for other things like a vacation that begins or ends with sick leave. Bottom line - if you have the time and you're not firing on all eight cylinders, stay home, use sick leave as it is intended and don't work the system.
Sick Leave
Rural Development
Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:34 AM
At a time when it seems as if public trust of government is at an all time low, it is important as ever for us federal servants to do our part to maintain the public trust. The entitlement mentality and greedy nature of some needs to cease. The FERS sick leave rules act as disability insurance policy and no employees should violate those rules. I don't understand why some would feel compelled to lie about sick leave use. We should be thankful for having good jobs when so many are losing theirs.
Sick leave for FERS
USPS
Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:23 AM
Sick leave is listed as a benefit to employees. It has no benefit if it is not used. If the "benefit" were a deposit of cash into a saving account at the rate of $20.00 per hour X 13 days per year X 25 years, the "benefit" would be $52000. If you watched that increase every year, and then were told when you retired that since you didn't need it, now you can't have your "benefit" of $52000, how would you feel? I am thankful that I have this benefit, and I use mine when I am sick or at a Doctor. To be fair, I think that if we don't use our benefit during our time at work, we should be paid a lump sum when we retire. If we don't get the cash, we never had a benefit!
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BLM
Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:38 PM
I retired as a FERS BLM employee in 12-31-03 and cashed in all of my sick leave which was at the maximum allowable. I never took sick leave in place of Annual vacation time. I think it is dishonest to use sick leave that way. I do think it is fair to allow unused sick leave for retirement computations, also retro-actively.
Rich
Sick Leave and FERS
ANG MT CLEMENS, MI
Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:00 AM
I'm a old timer on the CSRS plan, I can remember being a new hire when there was only the one plan and people still abused the leave. I had never heard of planning leave (fun trips...etc) and using sick leave. I think the members supervisors are just as guilty as the indivdual doing the abuse. Though I don't abuse my leave I do donate to people needing leave I don't judge them; if the cause is heartbreaking I donate to them. Perhaps they will learn from their prior mistake.
Sick Leave and FERS
MEDCOM
Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:07 AM
I agree w/you Production. I too am under CSRS X37 years. I have seen abuse even under this system. In fact we use to have a lottery on one employee. We would bet on what time each pay period she called in sick. The day was the tie breaker. So it really does not matter what system is in effect. In fact, I an really for the FERS getting the same as CSRS. I have two employees on leave restriction. Maybe this will be an incentive for them to keep a balance of sick leave instead of using as they accrue.
Use of sick leave.
Coast Guard
Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:19 AM
I hired on just at transition in the eighties, I missed the CSRS option and boy did I understand the cost. Everything else is mostly a wash but the sick leave not being treated the same was a serious cost to the employee. But it did help the budget, it felt like the private sector, where companies find ways to take little bits and pieces without the employee realizing what is going on until it is to late. In the end it would make millions in profit for the company while only taking pennies from the employee, well those pennies add up, and you lose dedication, and committment from the employees once this is realized, just like what happens towards the end of a FERS employees career, take your sick leave or just throw it away. They don't even give you the option to donate sick leave for those in need, you have to donate annual leave, though it is used for sick leave purposes by the recipient.
Sick leave in lieu of approved annual leave
IRS
Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:02 AM
Because annual leave must be requested and approved in advance, if you need a mental health day, you just call in sick leave. No questions asked as long as it is within 2 hours of your start of TOD. This allows for the flexibility of taking a day when you suddenly have free time in your schedule.
FERS SICK LEAVE
BARKSDALE
Mon Mar 9, 2009 9:15 AM
for the past 23 years i have worked with people who haved called in sick for no reason but to have a paid day off ,between 3 people they have like 90 hours between them sick leave .and just out of spite i will use my 990 hours s/l and stay at home and start my retirement 6 months early,with leave leave that i earned and will use,if you give most people 13 days most will use it human nature,reduce sick leave to 8 days and you might avoid sick leave abuse
Sick Leave fun
BARKSDALE
Wed Apr 1, 2009 2:50 PM
After thinking about how unfair it would be to my fellow workers,I will not use my sick leave and just let it go,even though everyone else has used it,i will let 1000 hours of sick leave go,i would rather come to work and not watch tv while on sick leave, april fools, just kidding,I will use every last minute to the last second.
Re: Sick Leave fun
BARKSDALE
Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:39 PM
Entitlement
Department of the Navy
Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:59 AM
I spent 10 years on active duty before opting for the opportunity of the civilian sector. After five years in the "Eden" of civilian employment, I was fortunate enough to be rehired as a civil servant (with a nominal pay reduction). Why would I return to government service for 2000 dollars less gross income? The benefits. The family health insurance with the "unreasonable" 25 dollar copay cost me $296 per payday. Working as a salary employee, I was required to put in 45 hours a week (it was usually 55-60 hours, uncompensated). I got holiday pay for Christmas and New Years Eve (sometimes we took other holidays off, but they extended the rest of the workdays to compensate, no overtime because holiday pay didn't count towards it). I got 40 hours of vacation after my first year of employment. If I was sick, I went to work, or I lost a day of pay. After 8 months of employment, my leave balances are 68 hours AL and 49 hours SL.
FOLLOW THE RULE OF STATE EMPLOYEES
SSA and AFGE
Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:34 AM
I live in CT. When you retire from state and local govt, you do not get credit in your computation, but you are paid dollar of dollar, 100% of your accumulated sick leave. This is the ONLY fair way to do it. This would encourage people to save for retirement and reward them for not sicking out. Note that any number of days in excess of but less than a month of comp credit for CSRS are lost. Hence CSRS employees tend to sick out towards the end.
Allow us all to use sick leave to transfer under the voluntary leave transfer program.
In closing, in CT, federal employees are at the bottom of the barrel below state and local employees in holidays, pension computations, use of OT in computation, and health insurance costs and coverage.
FERS FLUE
Internal Revenue Service
Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:25 AM
I still thing that they should not be allowed to take sick leave when they feel like it even if they are not sick.
Most of them take one or two days which do not require a doctor note. However with the cost of doctor visits now, I don't blame them for not wishing to stay the third day and get a note, unless they are really really sick.
Now these who use their sick leave because the have earned it and stay out to keep the balance low because they will not get it when they retire.
Now they are the ones who when get sick for a long period of time and have no leave to keep a salary coming in, they want all of us to donate our annual leave so they can have a income.
This policy is unfair to those who are under either system. The ones under FERS should have to keep a balance of sick leave before they are allowed to take leave unless it is doctor required or family medical leave to care for a seriously family member.
FERS draw gov assisitance in TSP, Soc Sec.
CSRS are penali
disability
dfas -cleveland
Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:29 PM
we really need to have some sort of disability. short term or long term. even if we were to work over all the time to accumulate credit hours it would take several months to even accumulate enough time to put toward recovery if you were to have a stroke, heart attack,or certain surgeries. Most recoveries are 2-3 months. with re-hab. I am aware of the donation program, but you never get enough time donated, and there are days where there is no money coming in. The prices on everything these days are sky rocketing, your bills stay the same, they still have to be paid whether you are working or not and we need to pay into disability, so we have it when we need it, for peace of mind.
Sick Leave
DOJ
Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:06 PM
Why would anyone under the FERS plan give back their sick days when employees under the CSRS plan get credit for them? I am not the smartest person in the world but until Congress gives FERS employees an incentive not to abuse the sick leave, they will. Why give back anything to a government who only will in return give it to those who do not work?
FERS Sick Leave
Dept of Veterans Affairs
Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:25 AM
Every hour of "use or lose" sick leave burned up prior to retirement is an hour of full pay and benefits for which no work is received. That hour is counted as service time and is calculated toward a retirement annuity. An overwhelming majority of FERS employees will budget their sick leave to coincide with retirement., therefore, any reasonable person would conclude that it is practical to eleminate the "use or lose" provisions and actually receive work for the service time. A productive day at work, or a day of "FERS Flu" both count toward the retirement annuity. Counting unused sick leave toward the retirement annuity will not increase the annuity, but will avoid paying for work not received.
sick leave don't use it unless you need it,
SSA/ODAR
Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:27 AM
I have to respond to the smug librarian who opined employees who run out of sick leave and request donated leave in the monthly messages are "yet another employee has exhausted all their leave and is in need of donated leave demonstrates to me that too many employees just throw away this valuable safety net" Are you aware that one month off the job is 80 hours of sick leave? You are very fortunate you and your family are healthy. My leave is gone because I had two surgeries last year and my husband was in intesive care for a month, and needed care when he came home. I not only used all my sick leave, but all my annual leave as well. Any time off for me is LWOP, so count yourself lucky, it could happen to you
SICK TIME ADDED FOR RETIREMENT
TSA
Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:36 AM
leo "law inforcement officers" get more for their retirement under fers vs non leos - but tsa pay is the lowest pay scale in the us government. we arent even in a gs pay classification- its under a pass system. i find it funny how some gs-8 plus employees say "thats too bad for you guys" i dont polish a seat. i do agree that if sick time is awarded for retirement then at least its earned/ dont think all you guys in government jobs - wont call in. when your time is near retirement that laughable. if you are in fers and if your smart you'll do it. 3 years in pay band e// will not help me when i retire (gs-7)if scaled. but at least its something. so as a front line worker at least i dont have lie!--new policy is written under the bush administration back in 2001. when it came to pay for transportation security officers it was appearently was too big for the little guy to handle. the solution was to pass the the buck under a pass system. not a gs system it would have been too easy!!!!!!!
sick leave
barksdale afb
Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:50 AM
the best thing the government did was not pay us for our unused sick leave ,if you are smart and use it at the end of your career you have a minnie vacation like 5 months before you retire gee i love upper management decisions .
Re: sick leave
barksdale afb
Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:02 PM
FERS and Sick Leave
AETC
Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:04 PM
I believe that if you are sick and have sick leave one should use it. If at times you dont feel quite well and maybe not feeling up to par, but may be not really really sick, I think you should take a sick day if you have it. But I agree with the individual who said you earned and should use it when you need to otherwise you will eventaully lose it. But common sense comes into play as well, what if you use up all your sick leave and you get really sick what then? You must think ahead and ensure you still have plenty of sick leave for when necessary.
FERS Sick leave counting towards retirement
USPS
Wed Nov 4, 2009 10:48 AM
It might help down the line after 2014, however it is too little too late from congress as usual for those that are close to retirement at this time. Lets face it the aim for congress is to save as much as they can for themselves. That is why congress has exempted themselves from all of this. Should congress really want to set an example they should include themselves in the current retirement system that everyone else has, social insecurity for all.
lack of fairness
USPS
Thu Nov 5, 2009 6:56 AM
postal employees retiring before 2014 will only receive
50 percent credit toward their accumulated sick leave
some one tell me how this is fair treatment