Instructional Systems Specialist AETC Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:09 AM
The 2008 pay charts indicate the proposed rates for GS and WG employees. How is this going to affect htose of us who now fall under the new NSPS system?
Re: NSPS Pay Raise
Concerned Employee AF Fri Jan 4, 2008 9:36 AM
Just received NSPS appraisal, first one since we converted. Received a very good rating (4) but unhappy with the distribution of the shares. A majority of the shares I received is designated as bonus, not towards my annual salary. Due to this divison, I will make less than my GS equivalent. I was told I could only appeal my rating, but NOT the distribution of the shares. Not unhappy with my rating, just the distribution of the money. Your Supervisor and Pay Pool Managers sign non disclosure statments as well, so you CANNOT have them explain their thought process nor can you find out/see what they actually wrote for your appraisal. Also told their is no written instruction or guidance for pay pool managers to follow as far as how they distribute the shares. As a general rule they try to follow what the supervisor/rater recommends. Again, you will never know what they recommended. Congress just changed pay policy as of 3 Jan 2008 for NSPS, 1.5% raise 1%tied to performance 1%loca
Pay Tables
Accountant DoN Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:24 AM
STILL HAVE NOT SEEN a discussion of the even MORE CONFUSING pay raise proposed for DoN Employees under NSPS. Hasn't SECDEF stated that HALF of the 2.5% "Basic Raise" will be added to the Pay pools? This makes a really WACKY computation of what the raise MIGHT be....
Pay Scale
Supervisor Veterans Affairs Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:28 AM
The pay calculator reflects GS pay only. Why?
Re: Pay Scale
editor FedSmith.com Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:39 AM
I won't speak for OPM. FedSmith has a very small staff of part-time volunteers who work to provide a free service for the federal community. Most of our readers fall under the GS system so our efforts went into helping the majority of our readers understand this complex system.
Re: Pay Scale
Retired Supervisor Department of the Army Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:47 AM
I was unaware that the staff is composed of volunteers. Please pass on a big THANK YOU to everyone. FedSmith is a very valuable service and is certainly appreciated.
Re: Pay Scale
CP Loan Technician USDA Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:30 AM
I want to second the BIG THANK YOU to the part time volunteer staff. I know from personal experience that a whole generation of non-volunteerism has been created and charitable organizations have received increased donations but no volunteers to help deliver the services.
And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
Cost Analyst Air Force Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:43 AM
Thanks to SecDef, we NSPS employees will probably get less than your pay tables show. THIS IS SO TOTALLY UNFAIR IT IS UNREAL. The GS employee sitting next to me doing the same thing just shows up and gets the full raise - I do not due to NSPS. And dont tell me we can get more - yeah right - split between a raise and cash bonus which doesnt count towards my high three.
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
HR Specialist DoD Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:34 AM
The NSPS system is really not that confusing, and you can get a bigger pay raise than you could under the GS system. For the record, the pay pool from which the NSPS raises and bonuses are paid includes more than just the pay raise money. It also includes the money normally spent on awards and step increases. Therefore, you could get a bigger raise than GS and still get a bonus. And even if the raise is a little less, it's not the end of the world and is still more than a lot of people in the private sector are getting.
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
FEDUP USMC Thu Dec 6, 2007 11:53 AM
And, that's the reason I'm leaving. With almost 33 years, I turned 55 last week, and we go under NSPS 3 Feb, I've decided to retire. I love the work I do, but I'd love it more knowing that I could be guaranteed a COLA that would keep pace with the economy (don't laugh). I've no doubt that I would get a big bonus each year (money available), but that doesn't do me any good when I'm sitting around in my rocking chair. PEOPLE, NSPS isn't confusing, it's a rip off. Leave DOD now.
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
Engineer DOD Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:04 PM
According to the way I I was briefed and what I read from our pay pool business rules, if I get graded a 3, I get about what I would have received under the old system with a full COLA. If I receive a 4 (which I did), I beat what I would get under the old system. Why is that confusing or bad? I think most of the unhappiness is fear of the unknown. Maybe our command explained NSPS better than some other places, (some nay-sayers would suggest they lied better) but I couldn't be happier with the opportunity to compete for higher compensation than everyone else. I don't like sitting next to some Bozo who is retired on the job, yet gets the same increase I do because the system is not set up to penalize him for poor performance. We have just completed our first pay pool under NSPS and I was treated more than fair. I will admit that there is unfairness in the system for those who either have poor writing skills or your boss doesn't do his or her job writing up their review.
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
Supervisor Army Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:21 AM
"FEDUP USMC" underscores one of the sucesses of NSPS. Attention: If you're a current GS employee suffering from an overwhelming sense of entitlement, please follow FEDUP out the door and out of MY Federal Government.
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
Chief Resource Management Office OSD AT&L(DUSD(L&MR)/RM Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:08 AM
Has anyone addressed the impact on retirement calculations between two people who are at the top of the GS grade (GS15) and top step (step 10) and one of these becomes an NSPS employee. The first year if both retired and they both had the same number of years, GS grade and step they would receive the same retirement pay. However, the longer the NSPS employee in in this new system tey will fall behind the GS employee in retirement benefits. The reason is that the cost of living increase is not fully given to the NSPS employee in his base salary - retirement is figured on your base salary. Please someone explain this to me and let me know why this is fair and equitable.
Special pay tables for IT personnel
IT Specialist/DataManagement Department of Veterans Affairs Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:43 AM
A number of years ago a special pay table was established for IT personnel. The reason given was to reflect the disparities between Private Sector IT salaries and Federal Pay rates for similar positions with retention as it's primary goal. It was much appreciated but as time has gone on IT folks have been effectively excluded from locality adjustments because we are already at a higher pay rate. As a result, the percentage raise for an IT person is less than the average fed.
Why haven't the special pay tables been adjusted to keep pace with the yearly increases? The result has been a gradual erosion of the higher pay rates on a percentage basis.
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
manager Dod Agency Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:01 AM
I think we can assume from comments on this site that all federal employees are underpaid, overworked and abused by the system in some way. I guess we all work in a sweatshop and are much more worthy than our employer recognizes. I guess we should all quit and go work for the better opportunities in the private sector where the benefits are better, the pay is more, the abuses do not exist and no one works under a pay for performance system.
Why is everyone waiting around to quit?
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
Analyst AFMC Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:07 AM
Since "manager" in D0D uses such flawless logic to argue that no one has any right to complain since they all have great jobs, let's use his/her own logic on him/her. Manager should NOT compain at all if his/her boss beats him/her with a knotted rope. After all, he/she has a GREAT job and is getting paid so much - therefore has no right to complain about anything at all
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
Supervisory IT Specialist DoD Navy Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:59 AM
When I fell under the IT special pay a while ago, it was trumped by locality pay. My locality pay, the Boston area, was more than the special IT pay, so I got the Boston rate.
I think they should have had a Boston IT rate. I still make less than I used to while in the private sector in 2000!
But, I only work 40 hours, no pager duty, etc. Plus the FERS pension. With the pension you defer what you could be making and collect it when you retire.
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
HR Specialist DoD Thu Dec 6, 2007 11:06 AM
Analyst's post doesn't make any sense at all. I'm not sure what the relationship is between pay raises and being beaten with a rope. I don't know what he or she is analyzing, but with flawed logic like that, I hope I never have to use it!
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
average joe Any Thu Dec 6, 2007 12:25 PM
Since the dot.com bust, there has not been a need to provide extra pay for retention of IT workers. More IT workers are trying to get into government employment than are trying to get out.
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
Analyst DOD Thu Dec 6, 2007 5:03 PM
Yet they still pay extra to the ITs.
At the risk of being in the minority...
Average Worker NIH Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:18 AM
Before the joining the Federal Gov't (I was in academia and industry before that) I could NEVER count on a yearly raise of ANY amount.
I say thanks Uncle Sam! I have a great job, I get paid well and I like the people I work with.
3% or 3.5% I am happy with either.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
HR Specialist Federal Agency Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:25 AM
I fully agree with you Average Worker...
Rather than people griping about their pay, let's celebrate what we do have as Federal employees...a secure work environment. Be grateful for any raise you get, others get none.
For those who want to complain, why are you still here if the grass is greener on the other side???
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
Fed DoD Thu Dec 6, 2007 1:20 PM
"Be grateful for any raise"--and anything else, including your job.
Don't forget that 1 of the tenets of NSPS is to create a "more agile, flexible workforce" that can be deployed wherever and whenever needed. If I had wanted to do that, I'd have put on a uniform.
It's obvious that both of you don't have a lot of federal service time. Any fed w/length of service realizes the dangers NSPS augurs. It's not about "pay for performance," but robbing the federal workplace and getting away w/it. It's also putting far too much power into first-level supvrs who may not have the skills to wield it fairly or properly.
Not for nothing have federal unions been seeing surges in membership.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
Engineer DOD Thu Dec 6, 2007 4:03 PM
Like the NIH worker, I have private sector experience, but I also have nearly 27 years of federal government experience, and I still agree 100% with his comments. Besides, NIH worker wasn't even talking about NSPS.
I pray to God that the general public never finds this website and reads the comments in it that reveal what a bunch of spoiled, ungrateful whiners so many federal workers apparently are. Most of the private sector workers I know would be delighted to have a job like mine, with or without the across-the-board raises that most of us seem to think we're entitled to. If NSPS drives the crybabies and malcontents into retirement, it will have done the country a great service and achieved its goal.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
Analyst DOD Thu Dec 6, 2007 5:05 PM
You're right. I was never guaranteed a raise in the private sector; however, I received one every year except one. The raise was generally in the 4-5% range. I think that's reasonable for people with advanced degrees.
Even the restaurant jobs that I did through college came with raises.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
HR Specialist Federal Agency Fri Dec 7, 2007 11:34 AM
To Fed DoD...you are the mistaken one. I have 32 years of Federal service and I am grateful for what I have. Neither NIH or I ever mentioned NSPS.
If you have issues with NSPS, you should write your congressman or senator instead of whining on this board.
One other opinion about NSPS, I find it interesting that everyone that has a problem with it makes it sound like their supervisors can't be trusted. While this may be true in some situations, I'm sure some supervisors are looking at their employees and saying they'll whine and complain about anything. NSPS was not put in place to screw all employees...I don't necessarily agree with it or have an opinion about it, except to say that sometimes what people see in the mirror when they look is not what others see...think about that.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
Engineer DOD Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:51 PM
I have 22 years with FERS and I can assure you that before I came into federal service, I had multiple jobs dry up under me thru no fault of my own. I work with plenty of engineers in the private sector who would kill to have my 40-hour a week job with benefits, time off, and job security. I was a GS-12 step 10 before I went under NSPS. If I perform, I can beat the COLA's I was restricted to under the GS system. If I don't perform, I get less. I wonder how many folks who have expressed a dislike for NSPS either aren't top perfromers or don't like change at all? I will compete on my merits any time. This year, I was awarded shares that equal almost 6% of my current salary for 2008 to help my High-3, with a nice 1% bonus to boot! I couldn't have done that under the old system. The last year under GS, I got close to 3% as a bonus & the full COLA. As long as they pay me and keep me employed, I couldn't be happier, whether its NSPS or GS.
NSPS better---someone swallowed the Kool-Aid
Financial Management Analyst Navy Thu Dec 6, 2007 1:11 PM
We have recently transitioned to NSPS. Upon transition, wer were told that we would immediately get a raise that would be equivalent to the % we had met of the next step. What they did not tell you is that is was not the % of the step with the locality pay but only the basic pay. Second fallacy---although you complete a year under NSPS, if you retire before the payout date, you get zippo unless your agency elects to give you a cash award outside of NSPS to compensate---so where are the NSPS awards and bonuses of which this person speaks---ohh in the pay pool for someone else.
Re: NSPS better---someone swallowed the Kool-Aid
Hard Worker Army Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:01 AM
I find this interesting- anyone who has a problem with NSPS is attacked by most. Believe me, the main reason for NSPS is to save the government $. If you do not know that, you have been drinking the kool-aid. The main problem I see with NSPS is the lack of supervisor interest in getting it done right. To ensure I and my fellow employees received a good write-up, I wrote "suggestions" for the supervisors input for the appraisal. This is the problem- my supervisor is leaving soon so does not have the time or inclination to "mess" with the new system. I am sure that I will receive a fair apparisal- because I wrote it. But, I do feel sorry for those who do not have that option- and I may not have with the next supervisor. Most military members who are supervisors of civilian employees have no idea how important the appraisal is under NSPS. Go ahead, take your best shot at this post- but know that what I say is true.
Please provide the fornula instead of the table...
Gen Engr DoD Thu Dec 6, 2007 1:29 PM
I appreciate your diligence to this issue of pay. You are a reliable source of information every year as the President and Congress wrangle over what they want to do to / for / against us, especially regarding remuneration for our services.
However, with the big hoopla over pay banding, the pay tables don't really do some of us much good. For those of us that have base salaries that do not line up with a specific grade-step value, we need to use the formula to estimate what we "might" get in the coming year. To date, I'm guessing that is a formula like the following:
Estimated 2008 Pay =
(Current Base Pay)*(1+0.025)*(Proposed Locality %)
If this is correct, please work it into your next article on 2008 Pay Estimates
Average Pay Raise and Making statistics lie.
Forester and Union President US Forest Service Thu Dec 6, 2007 1:57 PM
We all know that if you live in an area that does not give locality pay you normally get a raise of approximately 1% lower than the average pay raise. Over time this causes wide variations, just as living in an area that pays locality pay. For example lets assume that the Average Pay Raise is 3% for 5 years for a total of 15% increase. If you live in an area that does not pay locality pay and you get only a 2% for the 5 years, over this 5 year period you would only get a 10% increase. Conversely if you live in an area that has a locality pay of 3.5% over the 5 years, you would get a raise of 17.5% over the same time period.
Put bluntly if you live in an area that doesn't pay locality pay statistics given on the "Average Pay Raise" for government employees overestimate the pay raise over time.
Instead of arguing over the "Average Pay Raise" they should argue over the "Pay raise for Non Locality adjustments" and then just adjust the rest based upon the Locality adjustments.
Re: Average Pay Raise and Making statistics lie.
Statistician DOC Thu Dec 6, 2007 2:54 PM
I don't think that the term "average pay raise" implies anything about a raise over time. However, if you are below average once, then you likely will be again in this respect, which you could figure into your "calculation."
By the way, a 2% raise every year for 5 years does not equal a 10% raise -- it is a 10.4% raise. 15.9% and 18.8% percent for the other raises, respectively. 1.02*1.02*1.02*1.02*1.02=10.4
Re: Average Pay Raise and Making statistics lie.
Analyst DOD Thu Dec 6, 2007 5:10 PM
As long as you look at it in terms of change, it doesn't matter all that much.
I don't see how the poster linked "average pay raise" and a raise over time. SHe simply expanded the "lower than average pay raise" out a few years and was right. It makes a huge difference over the long run. It's the same logic for why 3% versus 3.5% is a huge issue.
Re: Average Pay Raise and Making statistics lie.
IT specialist DOD Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:59 AM
Why do we even get locality pay? No other business gives locality pay. YOU are the one who decides where you want to live.
overseas employees pay table not listed
addiction counselor Naval HOspital-Okinawa Thu Dec 6, 2007 6:21 PM
I do not see any information about civilian employees working overseas who do not fall into the locality pay tables listed???
Average Increase - All Americans
Rural Development Manager USDA Rural Development Fri Dec 7, 2007 9:46 AM
Just an observation, but a Washington Post article on job and wage growth for November stated that wages grew by 3.8% over the past 12 months. So, either Federal wage increase will be below the National wage increase.
Cost-of-Living
Specialist NIH Fri Dec 7, 2007 10:32 AM
I am grateful for any raise and I am very content in my job, but a raise is needed in order to deal with the cost-of-living in Maryland. The fact is we are being hit with higher taxes, higher gas bills and higher costs on food, electric, etc., the raise is needed in order for us middle class to survive! A 3.5% would be better than 3% because of these reasons, especially if you are a single parent raising children. It's a tough world out there and I don't think I am a whiner - but a person telling the facts.
I remember when...
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Fri Dec 7, 2007 3:38 PM
I worked in a regional payroll office, (back when they had such things,) when our divisor was changed from 2080 hrs to 2087. (annual pay rate/2080) 2080 is the number of paid hours in most years. However, the couple of days left over, if averaged over 12 years, makes the divisor 2087. That was also the year that a fairly respectable, and the highest in (then) recent memory, percentage pay increase was given. Since every GS went home with a little more money in their pocket they didn't complain too hard.
NSPS should definitely sweeten the pot when converting. It would help. Instead, they seem to be cheap, cheaper, and cheapest...wringing out every penny to the disadvantage of the employee.
At the risk of being in the minority
Program Analyst DOD Sat Dec 8, 2007 9:59 PM
I agree with Fed DoD email of Thu Dec 6, 2007 1:20 PM
"Any fed w/length of service realizes the dangers NSPS augurs. It's not about "pay for performance," but robbing the federal workplace and getting away w/it. It's also putting far too much power into first-level supvrs who may not have the skills to wield it fairly or properly. " I worked for an agency where the Supervisor seen NSPS as a way to get rid of people that he didn't want around anymore. His belief was that if you were over 55 yrs old with x number of yrs you should be retired; therefore he could write a person performance to make sure one left the govt.
GS 15 Step 10 versus 03 Pay Band Upper Limit
Manager DON Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:49 AM
There appears to be a difference between the upper limit of GS 15 Step 10 pay and the NSPS 03 Pay Band that causes an artificial ceiling to be imposed.
This difference negatively impacts a pay raise for a NSPS Pay Band 03 individual.
NSPS becomes a " pay by budget system " NOT a "pay by performance system " as advertised.
Low salary
Loan Analyst U.S. Department of Education Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:23 AM
i think that loan analysts that work for this department are underpaid for the work that we do. other employees are retiring and workload is piling on us everyday, which we are accommodating with a short turn-around period. cost of living in some of these areas is extremely outragious. i cannot live on $65,000.00 as a gs11-4 in san francisco, bay area. it is just imposible. is congress really thinking about us federal employees in general? i don't think so!!!! in any event, someone need to speak for us. thank you.
2008 Pay Raise
Maintenance Supervisor DAC Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:28 PM
What about the pay raises for the wage grade folks that are overseas? What percentage will we receive?
V/R
Why Worry?
TSO TSA Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:34 AM
Why all the stressing and hair-pulling over the pay raise? Does a half percent more or less really make that much difference? Just wait until the raise shows up in your check, and see what you get. If you're not happy with your TOTAL compensation package (including insurance, retirement, etc) then start looking for a better job elsewhere. Just be SURE the grass really is greener, before you jump the fence. You can do a lot worse than working for the federal government. I know, I've been on both sides.
To add more confusion...
Environmental Engineer USACE Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:23 AM
Now throw NSPS into the mix. For this year, our gvt-wide increase and cost of living increase will be split 50/50 - half goes to base salary and the other half to the pay pool to be distributed as bonuses depending on you performance rating. In 2009, 100% of that goes into the pay pool to be paid out as bonuses. The effect of this comes to light in your retirement pay. Retirement pay is based on your base salary - bonuses don't count. So if 100% of your increase is given to others as bonuses, your base pay does not increase; you lose retirement benefits.
A 1/2% does matter. 1/2% over a 30 year career is 15%. Calculate the difference between retirement annuities over 2 salary scenarios that are 15% apart. For a $100,000 salary, the difference is $4500 per year. If you live 25 years in retirement, that adds up to $112,500.
Federal Retiree
ITT Specialist USDA - Forest Service Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:46 AM
I am a retired federal employee - will we be getting 3 % too?
Would also like to know why we don't get a higher raise - when someone from congress retires they get almost their full salary - are we not as important?
It seems unfair, we retire, yet health insurance goes up so it is as if we never got a raise. I am frustrated by the whole issue of pay raises.
Re: Federal Retiree
IT Spec DOE Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:01 AM
ITT Specialist
I have six years to go before I retire. I feel so fortunate that I will have a FERS pension and matching TSP contribution as well as health insurance in retirement.
It is rare that anyone in the private sector has a COLA'd pension let alone health insurance in retirement.
What we receive in retirement is not a raise, it is a cost of living adjustment. Maybe this is where your frustration stems from. You are not suppose to get raises when you are no longer working.
I don't know what you did for work, but as a IT Specialist, I would not consider my contributions to be as important as a member of congress.
In summary, we Federal workers have it good when it comes to retirement benefits. If you can't make it financially then you didn't plan well at all.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
LPN Department of Veterans Affairs Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:39 AM
I fullly appreciate the job I have here at the VA as an LPN.We are treated far better and have more benefits than LPN's in the public sector.I worked as one for over 19 years and the last four were without any raise.Thanks to everyone at FedSmith for the fine work they do every day.God be with us all.
Re: Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
Procurement Analyst DCMA Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:46 PM
You may have intended to say "private sector". VA is in the public sector.
Pay Raise
Program Manager USDA Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:17 AM
Here is why I don't think dividing the raise up for locality is very fair. One of the employees I supervise lives across the state, in a rural area. However, its covered by the Seattle area. She will get a 3.5% raise, I, her supervisor and a higher graded employee, will only receive a 2.99% raise. That will make her pay $89, 839 based on your table (GS-12 step 10). I am a GS 13, step 5. My pay will be 88, 206. Therefore, as her supervisor, I make less money than my subordinate employee. Somehow this doesn't make sense to me. yes, some costs are higher in that area, but then some are lower as well.
Re: Pay Raise
Rural Development Specialist Rural Development Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:11 PM
This is interesting because I really don't think the tables truly reflect real higher cost areas. Here in *rural* vermont, which was just ranked the worst state for taxes, we are in RUS. But, as I have been told, you make the choice as to where you live. If you want to move to a higher pay area, put in for the next job opening (after all, aren't usda federal employees mobile?, take a good look at your position description) I choose to live in this state so I live with what I get. oh well, I am greatful for a steady paycheck and a job I enjoy most of the time.
Re: Pay Raise
Analyst DOD Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:08 PM
I thought locality had to do with where the job is, not where the employees live.
Pay Raise
UM Program Coordinator VAMC Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:20 AM
For 2007 & 2008 Houston, TX federal pay raises have dropped significantly to what was received prior to 2007. Houston used to be up there among the top 5 highest raises being received. What course of events happened to turn this around?
pay raise
Federal employee DOD Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:42 AM
I take exception to the comment about job security with the federal government. I have 25 years service and got BRAC'd last year. As a GS-07, all I was offered was a downgrade/saved pay/saved grade to a GS-06. What was my choice but to take it? I will get maybe 50% of this year's cost of living being in a saved pay/grade status. Six of my coworkers ended up on the outside, collecting unemployment and looking for new jobs. By the way, ALL the supervisors in our BRAC'd group got jobs with the same pay and same grade. Isn't that curious?
Re: pay raise
Analyst Government Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:18 PM
Saved grade/saved pay...at least you have employment and your continued salary with the possibility of placement through PPP. Ask someone in the private sector what they got when their establishment was cut/closed/etc. Be appreciative of the laws that protect those of us in civil service...don't be such an ingrate.
NSPS
Quality Assurance Specialist CNATRA Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:24 AM
I have been an outstanding employee for 20 years and have been given an incentive award every year during that time. Our organization went under NSPS and I only recieved 2.8 % pay this year because it is up to your supervisor's comments on how much you get from the pay pool. I'm now looking for a job that has not gone to NSPS.
Less than rest of US
IS DCMA Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:54 AM
Why is Indianapolis less than the "rest of the US"? I thought the bulk was supposed to be the lowest wage and now I find out that I am living in the area with the lowest wage. Granted, our cost of living isn't horrible but I'm sure it is not the lowest in the nation.
Pay table
Program Analyst Veterans Affairs Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:25 PM
This pay table does not include everyone; i.e., Columbia Missouri isn't listed at all.
I understand the comments re: locality pay changing what raise an individual may or may not get, but what about the people who don't get locality pay at all. Are they just too bad so sad??
Re: Pay table
GOV Employee SSA Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:32 PM
If you work for the VA in Columbia MO you are with the REST OF THE US (payscale)
Two Pay Raises
DOS Admin DOS Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:05 PM
The only thing that confuses me it this: The difference between the average pay raise suggested by the White House (3.0 percent) and the one suggested by congress (3.5 percent) is .5 percent. However the chart from OPM shows a full 1 percent after locality pay 3.49 and 4.49 respectively for the Wash/Baltimore area. Anyone know why?
Re: Two Pay Raises
IT Specialist SSA Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:02 AM
The President's "avg 3%" is an actual 2.5% with locality added (2.5 + .99 = 3.49). Congress proposed an actual 3.5% with locality added (3.5 + .99 = 4.49). So Congressional pay raise is probably an "avg 4%". I suspect the presidential budget claim of "avg 3%" is to make this figure appear higher than it actually is when comparing to Congressional budget amount of 3.5%.
Federal pay Raise
IT Specialist NIH Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:04 AM
I'm not squawking. It's a pay raise. I enjoy the best benefits package on the planet. I enjoy the best retirement savings vehicle on the planet (TSP). I am FORBIDDEN from working longer than 40 hours except in an emergency. I enjoy affordable health care, affordable life insurance. Man, I really have nothing to gripe about. Hooray for the government and the United States of America!
No Locality Chart for Small Cities/Towns
TCO USAF Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:53 AM
All well and good for those folks living in big metro areas.
What about me who works at Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, TEXAS 76311 zip code but lives 10 miles in a town, Burkburnett, TX?
What % pay raise would I have???
Robbie S
NSPS
HR Specialist IRS Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:36 AM
Will you Defense Department Employees stop complaining about NSPS ? Life is about change and you need to accept it. The people who tend to complain most about pay for performance are mediocre performers. Work hard and you will be rewarded, it's worked for me.
Re: NSPS
IS DCMA Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:05 PM
IRS HR specialist,
You are generalizing when you say that those who complain most are those who work least. That being said, if you would read the original NSPS document, you would know that it is an unfair, biased system. The fallacy that is spouted to the American public is that we get automatic raises every year (steps). Not true, it is not a yearly occurence, as you have to be aware if you know how the GS system works at all. Please do not insult the majority of the federal workers for the shortcomings of the few. Most people I have worked with in my 18 years of government service are hardworking individuals who earn their "cost of living" and steps. It is the minority who do not perform at the level they should and the complete system should not be overhauled to take care of the incompetence of the few at the expense of the many.
Re: NSPS
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:31 AM
We may have to accept it. You can learn to accept anything, including daily beatings if you must. However, I am counting down my time to retirement without 2% reductions per year. I really CAN endure most anything for the years I have left.
What will be interesting: NSPS was supposed to make it easier to attract and retain top performers. I am assuming that all support staff, (such as myself,) are doomed to be contracted out. What will government do when they realize that the top 2-3 preferred employees are staying because they are reaping the lions's share of the pay points and the rest, who are good solid performers but might not have the boss's ear, come and go as soon as they realize they don't get a real pay raise? The costs of that turnover will sink an agency. Now, someone recognizes a new employee as a great performer, reducing the pay pts of the ones who had it the last couple years....now THEY are upset and looking to go elsewhere. Unintended consequences reign!
Re: NSPS
Analyst DON Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:16 AM
The people that tend to complain are NOT necessarily medicore performers. I have received numerous QSI's and many performance awards over the years. Still, I am glad I won't have to work long under NSPS, leaving the day I'm eligible. And, yes I do indeed agree we have a great system working for the federal government but, just to implement, train, and now provide continuous training for new employees and supervisors so they may adopt/adapt to this NSPS system is huge. We pay contractors big bucks to provide training and continuous, ongoing training. Any system is only as good as what goes into it, from both employees and supervisors. But NSPS is a science project that we just don't really have the time for but we'll find time, at the expense of other projects/assignments. Imagine what we could do, collectively, with the dollars we've spent on this program already. If done right, the Pass/Fail; Acceptable/unacceptable system allowed us to "pay for performance."
Re: NSPS
Engineer DOD Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:20 PM
To IS with DCMA. With all due resppect, in your 18 years of service, when did you NOT receive a raise of some kind?! I've been doing this 22 years and there was only one year we didn't get a COLA, but I got a step increase that year. I did my current job in the private sector and I was not promised raises, COLA's or step increases automatically. You practically have to shoot someone not to get one. I also had two companies fold while I was working for them. I like the federal service much better. You just need to look around and see how well we really have it.
Re: NSPS
Programmer TSO Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:43 PM
DCMA, How many years have you NOT gotten a pay increase?
Additionally, how many years in your career have pay increases been the rule and not the exception?
Those are two direct questions, give us an answer to each one.
Wages
Industrial Engineering Tech DOD Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:43 AM
I think that the raises should be the same across the board for all federal employees. The purpose of the locality pay is to make up for the cost of the area in which an employee lives.
These are all different for all areas of the United States. Some are higher than others. So the actual raise for all federal employees should be the same, and the locality pay should take care of the difference in location costs.
IRS Comment r.e. NSPS...
Program Analyst IRS Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:00 AM
IRS HR Specialist,
IRS doesn't have a plan similar to NSPS at all. Work hard all you want. That is a very good attitude for all of us. But, IRS employees are not going to endure the unfairness of NSPS!
Re: IRS Comment r.e. NSPS...
HR Specialist IRS Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:41 PM
IRS managers are all in pay bands and their pay is based on their performance. Federal workers need to accept the modern business world concept of pay for performance. Further, I suspect the NSPS will produce winners and losers just like the real world does. We need to get over this concept of perfect fairness, it does not exist. I am sick of the "pulse pay system" we have now. If you have a pulse, you get a pay raise.
Re: IRS Comment r.e. NSPS...
RO Treasury Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:07 PM
Pay banding and performance. Yep, right. It's based on who likes you and your raise is also based on "committee" The territory managers huddle and determine which of the managers will get a raise. No thanks, I will remain a GS-13 RO. The HR person can be happy with this, but I would not expect anything less.
Positive Comment
Supervisory Computer Scientist IRS Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:36 AM
Thanks for creating the calculator and explaining the possible outcomes. I really appreciate it an have forwarded this to several people.
Re:Re:IRS Comment r.e. NSPS...
Mgr Treasury Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:58 AM
The IRS has a 'Pay Band' but the HR 'Specialist' is ___ing on your leg and telling you it's raining when he states it is based on performance. It is based on everything else but performance. Mgrs in this agency, especially front line, will be given the raises from pay banding on a 'cycle' system and it will not matter what the manager does/does not do during their rating period. SES may be a different story however. Additionally, his very negative attitude towards anyone disagreeing with him, despite the legitmacy of their blogs, is unfortunately a fact of life for us at the IRS. It is not very comforting to have such an attitude in our 'Human Resource' Specialist, especially when they are not being honest.
Federal Nurses Pay Scale
Registered Nurse Veterans Hospital Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:02 AM
I cannot find the Federal nurses pay scale in the internet.
Can you help me
Re: Federal Nurses Pay Scale
rn veterans hospital Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:18 AM
Must be a military secret
NSPS and the Pay Raise
General Engr Army Ft. Crumble, KY Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:23 PM
How does this effect the NSPS folks? This FY they are taking 50% of the annual pay raise for pay pools. Next year all of it (or last I saw in writing). Do we not get any thing if the Locality Pay does not change? Do we actually lose $$ because of higher taxes, health insurance, etc?
Give it up!
Civilian DoN Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:13 PM
You are all invited to my place for a lots of cheese to go with your w(h)ine! NSPS, GS, WG, whatever pay system you are under, you wouldn't be there if it didn't pay as well as it does or provide the benefits. We are some of the luckiest employees in this nation and as a Federal employee I'm embarassed to see all of the negative comments posted. Yes, you have the opportunity to speak your piece, but sometimes it just gets a little old. Be thankful for what you have; you could be in the bread line this holiday season.
Re: Give it up!
Supervisor DOA Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:21 AM
You don't know what you are talking about, you must be one of the NSPS individuals who gets paid pretty well. But for some of us we are losing money. I'm a supervisor, but now because of this new NSPS system the people that work under me (for me) are now getting paid more than I am. Now you tell me, how is that right!!!!
Re: Give it up!
YA-02 USAF Thu Jan 3, 2008 11:42 AM
Incredible that someone would have the nerve to blast others who have legitimate problems with the NSPS system!!! It hurts more people than it benefits and if you aren't in tight with your supervisor, you could be out of luck. I happen to have been converted over to NSPS and I will max out in pay within two years. I have no hope of the old annual pay increase and with policy to take MY cost of living increase and put it in the pay pool; I have little hope of seeing pay increases in my future. What incentive do I have to stay in DOD under NSPS?
Re: Give it up!
Civilian DoN Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:47 AM
Actually, the reverse seems to be true--anyone who has anything remotely positive to say about NSPS gets blasted. I don't buy into the misery loves company mantra. Yes, I do get paid well, and under the GS and NSPS systems most of my employees made/make more than me. That's because most of them have more years than I do. That's what the GS longevity system did for you. Also, neither the GS nor NSPS systems mandate that the supervisor make more than their subordinates. I don't know where you get that from.
Pay for performance?
DoD IG DoD IG Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:22 PM
I've recently taken a GS job because under NSPS I would be taking a pay cut to stay.
For the record HR specialist, I am a top performer as documented by receiving consecutive "outstanding" performance ratings and numerous significant awards.
In my NSPS actually drives out the people you most want to keep.
So long NSPS --
NSPS and the January Raise
Contracting Officer Army Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:09 PM
What my agency has done will make understanding the pay raise even more convoluted. Since we are under NSPS, they are taking half of the raise for the pay pool, and a portion of the remaining half will go towards increasing our salary, and the remainder will be provided as a bonus. And they say that there won't be a discrepancy between GS and NSPS personnel. This is one example of why a large number of personnel under NSPS have chosen to retire rather than continue under NSPS.
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
Engineer Team Leader USCG Wed Jan 2, 2008 11:55 AM
Why is NSPS unfair. Well all you federal employees who voted for Bush can thank only yourselfs for this. It's no brainer that the Republicans are union busters and anti-working class corporate, power hungry, greed mongers. And by the way the old system worked very well. The old system was designed to admonish poor performers and reward good performers. It was up to management to get off their duffs and do the paper work and exercise that right. The NSPS system takes care of the brown nosers and ___ kissers. Those that are reward because of good performance consider yourself lucky, hope you never fall out of "social grace" with your boss requardles how well you do your job. Just look the other way and never stand up for what's right meaning never "blow the wistle".
Re: Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
NSPS Worker Army Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:18 AM
So you are a democrat- if your party wins, get ready for higher taxes. I agree that Bush stepped on it with the NSPS system, but who says that would not have happened with your party. Get a life, and stop bashing other people in this great country.
Re: Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
IT Project Mgr DEPT. AIR FORCE Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:20 PM
The reason this is happening is because government workers are patsies and continue to allow thugs in this administratin to abuse them. If you don't write your Cogressional delegaiton NOW (and tell them you don't want a staffer to click on the canned response button) you deserve to have your pay frozen. If you don't unionize NOW like GAO did, you deserve to have your pay frozen. David Chu, England and Gates lied to us and now they are denying it. They know full well we were told we would receive the entire 08 BASE pay raise. To deny that now is a complete breach of trust. Oh, I forgot, there wasn't any trust left to lose. A strike won't work but a sickout will. With lots of media attention. We should pick a date and organize either in front of the Pentagon, the Mall or in front of the Capital. Punish any Congresspersons or Senators who dopn't support the demonstration at the balot box. Put bags on our heads or better yet David Chu, Rummy and England masks. What? You say you can't lie a
Re: Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
1st line Manager DLA Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:56 AM
I agree with the Army guy. Bush DID 'step on it' with NSPS. And I LOVE that argument! Whose to say that the 'other' party might have done so. BINGO! Whose to say that the OTHER party might have led us into this financial mess we are in, and whose to say someone ELSE might have screwed up the way the rest of the world looks at us, and whose to say?!?!? SHEESH, I see why you're in the army, and not the USAF!
Fat Cat DC Folks!
Engineer BOR Thu Jan 3, 2008 9:39 AM
Why are the DC folks getting one percentage point greater with the 3-percent and the 3.5-percent raise (3.49 and 4.49 percent)? No where else in the country are they getting one whole percentage point difference. It seams that the fat cats in Washington just got fatter. Their representatives must be looking out for their interests, not the rest of the country's.
NSPS better---someone swallowed the Kool-Aid
HR Advisor USN Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:15 AM
For Hard Worker -Army. Perhaps your perception is your reality but your comment on a military member having no idea how important an appraisal is for an employees career is way off base. They have been annually evaluated since they entered the military and although the Army's evaluation system is different than the Navy or Air Forces, they are years ahead of their civilian counterparts on evaluating, both in writing and confronting real time issues, which I see as an ongoing problem with feds. Status quo doesn't get you promoted in the military, in fact they have what is known as "high year tenure" and you are forced to leave if not promoted, and you are promoted by your evaluations. So please, think about the experience most military employees have at writing evaluations (performace) and take advantage of it, that is if your performance is good and you are not one of many fearful of loosing your guaranteed annual COLA as your only basis for a raise.
NSPS
FMer Air Force Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:42 AM
I just converted over to NSPS and I look forward to the challenge of knowing that if I outperform the GS bozo working next to me that I may get rewarded for my performance compared to sitting around collecting dust until retirement. For those who complain about NSPS, use it to your advantage and if you out-perform and not get recognized, it is the supervisor's fault, not NSPS. Take a look at the daily news and thankfully you are not in a company that is outsourcing it's work to a 3rd world nation as well as the company going belly up in an economy that should be prosperring but for some reason is not as stable as working for the federal government...
AVERAGE RATING BREEDS COMPLACENCY
Med professional AF Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:36 AM
I've been a "GS" worker for over 20 years and I certainly am not retired on the job. I took a new position (my first under NSPS) this past year and received my rating this week - a "3" with ONE share. I was quite disheartened (as were a few coworkers who have been here several years) and then to learn that my annual raise will suffer as well. Fortunately my "high 3" was completed before I ever got here. If most emplyees are average and get 3's (when they really contribute more than expected), I feel NSPS will breed complacency in the work place.
Question for NSPS people
Who Am I? DOD Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:17 PM
My organization is not converted yet. Many of us are matrixed to other activities (some over 5 yrs.). Are any of the current NSPS people matrixed away from their home base? If so, whose pay pool are you in, your home base or the activity to which you are matrixed? If the home base, what weight does a performance score from another organization carry in the pay pool and advocacy parts? If you are in the pool of the agency you are matrixed to, do they give you equal treatment to their own personnel? I assume that our job slots will still belong to the home base after conversion and we will still be rented from the home base? Is that the way it works?
SES AND NSPS NEED NOT APPLY!
IT Project Mgr DEPT. AIR FORCE Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:33 PM
If NSPS is so wonderful why haven't the SESers and Congress placed themselves under it's spell? I have a feeling that we who are about to enter this "brave new world" of pay for performance for will pay a big price with very limited returns -- especially those at the top end of a pay band. Cutting cost is the real bottom line in NSPS.
this rais increase
i am title-free i am agency-free Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:40 PM
the bureau of labor statistics says that CPI increase from 3/2007-3/2008 was a touch under 4%... so if the raise proposed for fed emps is 3.0-3.5%, then doesn't that mean they're getting a pay cut?
Pay Raise Effect for NSPS
Specialist Army Tue Sep 9, 2008 7:07 AM
All articles ref pay/pay raise always address GS pay. Is there anyway to show how pay raise will effect NSPS pay?
My first time of reading FedSmith Great info.
Facilities Manager Army Research Laboratory Fri Dec 5, 2008 4:08 AM
I am about to take a job overseas in Europe and the agency is on NSPS. I have heard good and bad. My impression is not good. Especially in my case looking at retirement in about 4 years. I may take a dive if I change systems. Volunteers thanks for the info. I knew nothing except what some TSP personnel told me and they are all unhappy.
NSPS Pay Raise
AETC
Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:09 AM
The 2008 pay charts indicate the proposed rates for GS and WG employees. How is this going to affect htose of us who now fall under the new NSPS system?
Re: NSPS Pay Raise
AF
Fri Jan 4, 2008 9:36 AM
Pay Tables
DoN
Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:24 AM
STILL HAVE NOT SEEN a discussion of the even MORE CONFUSING pay raise proposed for DoN Employees under NSPS. Hasn't SECDEF stated that HALF of the 2.5% "Basic Raise" will be added to the Pay pools? This makes a really WACKY computation of what the raise MIGHT be....
Pay Scale
Veterans Affairs
Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:28 AM
The pay calculator reflects GS pay only. Why?
Re: Pay Scale
FedSmith.com
Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:39 AM
Re: Pay Scale
Department of the Army
Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:47 AM
Re: Pay Scale
USDA
Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:30 AM
And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
Air Force
Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:43 AM
Thanks to SecDef, we NSPS employees will probably get less than your pay tables show. THIS IS SO TOTALLY UNFAIR IT IS UNREAL. The GS employee sitting next to me doing the same thing just shows up and gets the full raise - I do not due to NSPS. And dont tell me we can get more - yeah right - split between a raise and cash bonus which doesnt count towards my high three.
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
DoD
Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:34 AM
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
USMC
Thu Dec 6, 2007 11:53 AM
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
DOD
Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:04 PM
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
Army
Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:21 AM
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
OSD AT&L(DUSD(L&MR)/RM
Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:08 AM
Special pay tables for IT personnel
Department of Veterans Affairs
Thu Dec 6, 2007 9:43 AM
A number of years ago a special pay table was established for IT personnel. The reason given was to reflect the disparities between Private Sector IT salaries and Federal Pay rates for similar positions with retention as it's primary goal. It was much appreciated but as time has gone on IT folks have been effectively excluded from locality adjustments because we are already at a higher pay rate. As a result, the percentage raise for an IT person is less than the average fed.
Why haven't the special pay tables been adjusted to keep pace with the yearly increases? The result has been a gradual erosion of the higher pay rates on a percentage basis.
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
Dod Agency
Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:01 AM
Why is everyone waiting around to quit?
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
AFMC
Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:07 AM
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
DoD Navy
Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:59 AM
I think they should have had a Boston IT rate. I still make less than I used to while in the private sector in 2000!
But, I only work 40 hours, no pager duty, etc. Plus the FERS pension. With the pension you defer what you could be making and collect it when you retire.
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
DoD
Thu Dec 6, 2007 11:06 AM
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
Any
Thu Dec 6, 2007 12:25 PM
Re: Special pay tables for IT personnel
DOD
Thu Dec 6, 2007 5:03 PM
At the risk of being in the minority...
NIH
Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:18 AM
Before the joining the Federal Gov't (I was in academia and industry before that) I could NEVER count on a yearly raise of ANY amount.
I say thanks Uncle Sam! I have a great job, I get paid well and I like the people I work with.
3% or 3.5% I am happy with either.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
Federal Agency
Thu Dec 6, 2007 10:25 AM
Rather than people griping about their pay, let's celebrate what we do have as Federal employees...a secure work environment. Be grateful for any raise you get, others get none.
For those who want to complain, why are you still here if the grass is greener on the other side???
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
DoD
Thu Dec 6, 2007 1:20 PM
Don't forget that 1 of the tenets of NSPS is to create a "more agile, flexible workforce" that can be deployed wherever and whenever needed. If I had wanted to do that, I'd have put on a uniform.
It's obvious that both of you don't have a lot of federal service time. Any fed w/length of service realizes the dangers NSPS augurs. It's not about "pay for performance," but robbing the federal workplace and getting away w/it. It's also putting far too much power into first-level supvrs who may not have the skills to wield it fairly or properly.
Not for nothing have federal unions been seeing surges in membership.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
DOD
Thu Dec 6, 2007 4:03 PM
I pray to God that the general public never finds this website and reads the comments in it that reveal what a bunch of spoiled, ungrateful whiners so many federal workers apparently are. Most of the private sector workers I know would be delighted to have a job like mine, with or without the across-the-board raises that most of us seem to think we're entitled to. If NSPS drives the crybabies and malcontents into retirement, it will have done the country a great service and achieved its goal.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
DOD
Thu Dec 6, 2007 5:05 PM
Even the restaurant jobs that I did through college came with raises.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
Federal Agency
Fri Dec 7, 2007 11:34 AM
If you have issues with NSPS, you should write your congressman or senator instead of whining on this board.
One other opinion about NSPS, I find it interesting that everyone that has a problem with it makes it sound like their supervisors can't be trusted. While this may be true in some situations, I'm sure some supervisors are looking at their employees and saying they'll whine and complain about anything. NSPS was not put in place to screw all employees...I don't necessarily agree with it or have an opinion about it, except to say that sometimes what people see in the mirror when they look is not what others see...think about that.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
DOD
Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:51 PM
NSPS better---someone swallowed the Kool-Aid
Navy
Thu Dec 6, 2007 1:11 PM
We have recently transitioned to NSPS. Upon transition, wer were told that we would immediately get a raise that would be equivalent to the % we had met of the next step. What they did not tell you is that is was not the % of the step with the locality pay but only the basic pay. Second fallacy---although you complete a year under NSPS, if you retire before the payout date, you get zippo unless your agency elects to give you a cash award outside of NSPS to compensate---so where are the NSPS awards and bonuses of which this person speaks---ohh in the pay pool for someone else.
Re: NSPS better---someone swallowed the Kool-Aid
Army
Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:01 AM
Please provide the fornula instead of the table...
DoD
Thu Dec 6, 2007 1:29 PM
I appreciate your diligence to this issue of pay. You are a reliable source of information every year as the President and Congress wrangle over what they want to do to / for / against us, especially regarding remuneration for our services.
However, with the big hoopla over pay banding, the pay tables don't really do some of us much good. For those of us that have base salaries that do not line up with a specific grade-step value, we need to use the formula to estimate what we "might" get in the coming year. To date, I'm guessing that is a formula like the following:
Estimated 2008 Pay =
(Current Base Pay)*(1+0.025)*(Proposed Locality %)
If this is correct, please work it into your next article on 2008 Pay Estimates
Average Pay Raise and Making statistics lie.
US Forest Service
Thu Dec 6, 2007 1:57 PM
We all know that if you live in an area that does not give locality pay you normally get a raise of approximately 1% lower than the average pay raise. Over time this causes wide variations, just as living in an area that pays locality pay. For example lets assume that the Average Pay Raise is 3% for 5 years for a total of 15% increase. If you live in an area that does not pay locality pay and you get only a 2% for the 5 years, over this 5 year period you would only get a 10% increase. Conversely if you live in an area that has a locality pay of 3.5% over the 5 years, you would get a raise of 17.5% over the same time period.
Put bluntly if you live in an area that doesn't pay locality pay statistics given on the "Average Pay Raise" for government employees overestimate the pay raise over time.
Instead of arguing over the "Average Pay Raise" they should argue over the "Pay raise for Non Locality adjustments" and then just adjust the rest based upon the Locality adjustments.
Re: Average Pay Raise and Making statistics lie.
DOC
Thu Dec 6, 2007 2:54 PM
By the way, a 2% raise every year for 5 years does not equal a 10% raise -- it is a 10.4% raise. 15.9% and 18.8% percent for the other raises, respectively. 1.02*1.02*1.02*1.02*1.02=10.4
Re: Average Pay Raise and Making statistics lie.
DOD
Thu Dec 6, 2007 5:10 PM
I don't see how the poster linked "average pay raise" and a raise over time. SHe simply expanded the "lower than average pay raise" out a few years and was right. It makes a huge difference over the long run. It's the same logic for why 3% versus 3.5% is a huge issue.
Re: Average Pay Raise and Making statistics lie.
DOD
Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:59 AM
overseas employees pay table not listed
Naval HOspital-Okinawa
Thu Dec 6, 2007 6:21 PM
I do not see any information about civilian employees working overseas who do not fall into the locality pay tables listed???
Average Increase - All Americans
USDA Rural Development
Fri Dec 7, 2007 9:46 AM
Just an observation, but a Washington Post article on job and wage growth for November stated that wages grew by 3.8% over the past 12 months. So, either Federal wage increase will be below the National wage increase.
Cost-of-Living
NIH
Fri Dec 7, 2007 10:32 AM
I am grateful for any raise and I am very content in my job, but a raise is needed in order to deal with the cost-of-living in Maryland. The fact is we are being hit with higher taxes, higher gas bills and higher costs on food, electric, etc., the raise is needed in order for us middle class to survive! A 3.5% would be better than 3% because of these reasons, especially if you are a single parent raising children. It's a tough world out there and I don't think I am a whiner - but a person telling the facts.
I remember when...
DOD
Fri Dec 7, 2007 3:38 PM
I worked in a regional payroll office, (back when they had such things,) when our divisor was changed from 2080 hrs to 2087. (annual pay rate/2080) 2080 is the number of paid hours in most years. However, the couple of days left over, if averaged over 12 years, makes the divisor 2087. That was also the year that a fairly respectable, and the highest in (then) recent memory, percentage pay increase was given. Since every GS went home with a little more money in their pocket they didn't complain too hard.
NSPS should definitely sweeten the pot when converting. It would help. Instead, they seem to be cheap, cheaper, and cheapest...wringing out every penny to the disadvantage of the employee.
At the risk of being in the minority
DOD
Sat Dec 8, 2007 9:59 PM
I agree with Fed DoD email of Thu Dec 6, 2007 1:20 PM
"Any fed w/length of service realizes the dangers NSPS augurs. It's not about "pay for performance," but robbing the federal workplace and getting away w/it. It's also putting far too much power into first-level supvrs who may not have the skills to wield it fairly or properly. " I worked for an agency where the Supervisor seen NSPS as a way to get rid of people that he didn't want around anymore. His belief was that if you were over 55 yrs old with x number of yrs you should be retired; therefore he could write a person performance to make sure one left the govt.
GS 15 Step 10 versus 03 Pay Band Upper Limit
DON
Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:49 AM
There appears to be a difference between the upper limit of GS 15 Step 10 pay and the NSPS 03 Pay Band that causes an artificial ceiling to be imposed.
This difference negatively impacts a pay raise for a NSPS Pay Band 03 individual.
NSPS becomes a " pay by budget system " NOT a "pay by performance system " as advertised.
Low salary
U.S. Department of Education
Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:23 AM
i think that loan analysts that work for this department are underpaid for the work that we do. other employees are retiring and workload is piling on us everyday, which we are accommodating with a short turn-around period. cost of living in some of these areas is extremely outragious. i cannot live on $65,000.00 as a gs11-4 in san francisco, bay area. it is just imposible. is congress really thinking about us federal employees in general? i don't think so!!!! in any event, someone need to speak for us. thank you.
2008 Pay Raise
DAC
Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:28 PM
What about the pay raises for the wage grade folks that are overseas? What percentage will we receive?
V/R
Why Worry?
TSA
Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:34 AM
Why all the stressing and hair-pulling over the pay raise? Does a half percent more or less really make that much difference? Just wait until the raise shows up in your check, and see what you get. If you're not happy with your TOTAL compensation package (including insurance, retirement, etc) then start looking for a better job elsewhere. Just be SURE the grass really is greener, before you jump the fence. You can do a lot worse than working for the federal government. I know, I've been on both sides.
To add more confusion...
USACE
Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:23 AM
Now throw NSPS into the mix. For this year, our gvt-wide increase and cost of living increase will be split 50/50 - half goes to base salary and the other half to the pay pool to be distributed as bonuses depending on you performance rating. In 2009, 100% of that goes into the pay pool to be paid out as bonuses. The effect of this comes to light in your retirement pay. Retirement pay is based on your base salary - bonuses don't count. So if 100% of your increase is given to others as bonuses, your base pay does not increase; you lose retirement benefits.
A 1/2% does matter. 1/2% over a 30 year career is 15%. Calculate the difference between retirement annuities over 2 salary scenarios that are 15% apart. For a $100,000 salary, the difference is $4500 per year. If you live 25 years in retirement, that adds up to $112,500.
Federal Retiree
USDA - Forest Service
Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:46 AM
I am a retired federal employee - will we be getting 3 % too?
Would also like to know why we don't get a higher raise - when someone from congress retires they get almost their full salary - are we not as important?
It seems unfair, we retire, yet health insurance goes up so it is as if we never got a raise. I am frustrated by the whole issue of pay raises.
Re: Federal Retiree
DOE
Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:01 AM
I have six years to go before I retire. I feel so fortunate that I will have a FERS pension and matching TSP contribution as well as health insurance in retirement.
It is rare that anyone in the private sector has a COLA'd pension let alone health insurance in retirement.
What we receive in retirement is not a raise, it is a cost of living adjustment. Maybe this is where your frustration stems from. You are not suppose to get raises when you are no longer working.
I don't know what you did for work, but as a IT Specialist, I would not consider my contributions to be as important as a member of congress.
In summary, we Federal workers have it good when it comes to retirement benefits. If you can't make it financially then you didn't plan well at all.
Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
Department of Veterans Affairs
Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:39 AM
I fullly appreciate the job I have here at the VA as an LPN.We are treated far better and have more benefits than LPN's in the public sector.I worked as one for over 19 years and the last four were without any raise.Thanks to everyone at FedSmith for the fine work they do every day.God be with us all.
Re: Re: At the risk of being in the minority...
DCMA
Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:46 PM
Pay Raise
USDA
Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:17 AM
Here is why I don't think dividing the raise up for locality is very fair. One of the employees I supervise lives across the state, in a rural area. However, its covered by the Seattle area. She will get a 3.5% raise, I, her supervisor and a higher graded employee, will only receive a 2.99% raise. That will make her pay $89, 839 based on your table (GS-12 step 10). I am a GS 13, step 5. My pay will be 88, 206. Therefore, as her supervisor, I make less money than my subordinate employee. Somehow this doesn't make sense to me. yes, some costs are higher in that area, but then some are lower as well.
Re: Pay Raise
Rural Development
Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:11 PM
Re: Pay Raise
DOD
Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:08 PM
Pay Raise
VAMC
Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:20 AM
For 2007 & 2008 Houston, TX federal pay raises have dropped significantly to what was received prior to 2007. Houston used to be up there among the top 5 highest raises being received. What course of events happened to turn this around?
pay raise
DOD
Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:42 AM
I take exception to the comment about job security with the federal government. I have 25 years service and got BRAC'd last year. As a GS-07, all I was offered was a downgrade/saved pay/saved grade to a GS-06. What was my choice but to take it? I will get maybe 50% of this year's cost of living being in a saved pay/grade status. Six of my coworkers ended up on the outside, collecting unemployment and looking for new jobs. By the way, ALL the supervisors in our BRAC'd group got jobs with the same pay and same grade. Isn't that curious?
Re: pay raise
Government
Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:18 PM
NSPS
CNATRA
Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:24 AM
I have been an outstanding employee for 20 years and have been given an incentive award every year during that time. Our organization went under NSPS and I only recieved 2.8 % pay this year because it is up to your supervisor's comments on how much you get from the pay pool. I'm now looking for a job that has not gone to NSPS.
Less than rest of US
DCMA
Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:54 AM
Why is Indianapolis less than the "rest of the US"? I thought the bulk was supposed to be the lowest wage and now I find out that I am living in the area with the lowest wage. Granted, our cost of living isn't horrible but I'm sure it is not the lowest in the nation.
Pay table
Veterans Affairs
Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:25 PM
This pay table does not include everyone; i.e., Columbia Missouri isn't listed at all.
I understand the comments re: locality pay changing what raise an individual may or may not get, but what about the people who don't get locality pay at all. Are they just too bad so sad??
Re: Pay table
SSA
Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:32 PM
Two Pay Raises
DOS
Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:05 PM
The only thing that confuses me it this: The difference between the average pay raise suggested by the White House (3.0 percent) and the one suggested by congress (3.5 percent) is .5 percent. However the chart from OPM shows a full 1 percent after locality pay 3.49 and 4.49 respectively for the Wash/Baltimore area. Anyone know why?
Re: Two Pay Raises
SSA
Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:02 AM
Federal pay Raise
NIH
Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:04 AM
I'm not squawking. It's a pay raise. I enjoy the best benefits package on the planet. I enjoy the best retirement savings vehicle on the planet (TSP). I am FORBIDDEN from working longer than 40 hours except in an emergency. I enjoy affordable health care, affordable life insurance. Man, I really have nothing to gripe about. Hooray for the government and the United States of America!
No Locality Chart for Small Cities/Towns
USAF
Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:53 AM
All well and good for those folks living in big metro areas.
What about me who works at Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, TEXAS 76311 zip code but lives 10 miles in a town, Burkburnett, TX?
What % pay raise would I have???
Robbie S
NSPS
IRS
Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:36 AM
Will you Defense Department Employees stop complaining about NSPS ? Life is about change and you need to accept it. The people who tend to complain most about pay for performance are mediocre performers. Work hard and you will be rewarded, it's worked for me.
Re: NSPS
DCMA
Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:05 PM
You are generalizing when you say that those who complain most are those who work least. That being said, if you would read the original NSPS document, you would know that it is an unfair, biased system. The fallacy that is spouted to the American public is that we get automatic raises every year (steps). Not true, it is not a yearly occurence, as you have to be aware if you know how the GS system works at all. Please do not insult the majority of the federal workers for the shortcomings of the few. Most people I have worked with in my 18 years of government service are hardworking individuals who earn their "cost of living" and steps. It is the minority who do not perform at the level they should and the complete system should not be overhauled to take care of the incompetence of the few at the expense of the many.
Re: NSPS
DOD
Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:31 AM
What will be interesting: NSPS was supposed to make it easier to attract and retain top performers. I am assuming that all support staff, (such as myself,) are doomed to be contracted out. What will government do when they realize that the top 2-3 preferred employees are staying because they are reaping the lions's share of the pay points and the rest, who are good solid performers but might not have the boss's ear, come and go as soon as they realize they don't get a real pay raise? The costs of that turnover will sink an agency. Now, someone recognizes a new employee as a great performer, reducing the pay pts of the ones who had it the last couple years....now THEY are upset and looking to go elsewhere. Unintended consequences reign!
Re: NSPS
DON
Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:16 AM
Re: NSPS
DOD
Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:20 PM
Re: NSPS
TSO
Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:43 PM
Additionally, how many years in your career have pay increases been the rule and not the exception?
Those are two direct questions, give us an answer to each one.
Wages
DOD
Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:43 AM
I think that the raises should be the same across the board for all federal employees. The purpose of the locality pay is to make up for the cost of the area in which an employee lives.
These are all different for all areas of the United States. Some are higher than others. So the actual raise for all federal employees should be the same, and the locality pay should take care of the difference in location costs.
IRS Comment r.e. NSPS...
IRS
Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:00 AM
IRS HR Specialist,
IRS doesn't have a plan similar to NSPS at all. Work hard all you want. That is a very good attitude for all of us. But, IRS employees are not going to endure the unfairness of NSPS!
Re: IRS Comment r.e. NSPS...
IRS
Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:41 PM
Re: IRS Comment r.e. NSPS...
Treasury
Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:07 PM
Positive Comment
IRS
Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:36 AM
Thanks for creating the calculator and explaining the possible outcomes. I really appreciate it an have forwarded this to several people.
Re:Re:IRS Comment r.e. NSPS...
Treasury
Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:58 AM
The IRS has a 'Pay Band' but the HR 'Specialist' is ___ing on your leg and telling you it's raining when he states it is based on performance. It is based on everything else but performance. Mgrs in this agency, especially front line, will be given the raises from pay banding on a 'cycle' system and it will not matter what the manager does/does not do during their rating period. SES may be a different story however. Additionally, his very negative attitude towards anyone disagreeing with him, despite the legitmacy of their blogs, is unfortunately a fact of life for us at the IRS. It is not very comforting to have such an attitude in our 'Human Resource' Specialist, especially when they are not being honest.
Federal Nurses Pay Scale
Veterans Hospital
Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:02 AM
I cannot find the Federal nurses pay scale in the internet.
Can you help me
Re: Federal Nurses Pay Scale
veterans hospital
Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:18 AM
NSPS and the Pay Raise
Army Ft. Crumble, KY
Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:23 PM
How does this effect the NSPS folks? This FY they are taking 50% of the annual pay raise for pay pools. Next year all of it (or last I saw in writing). Do we not get any thing if the Locality Pay does not change? Do we actually lose $$ because of higher taxes, health insurance, etc?
Give it up!
DoN
Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:13 PM
You are all invited to my place for a lots of cheese to go with your w(h)ine! NSPS, GS, WG, whatever pay system you are under, you wouldn't be there if it didn't pay as well as it does or provide the benefits. We are some of the luckiest employees in this nation and as a Federal employee I'm embarassed to see all of the negative comments posted. Yes, you have the opportunity to speak your piece, but sometimes it just gets a little old. Be thankful for what you have; you could be in the bread line this holiday season.
Re: Give it up!
DOA
Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:21 AM
Re: Give it up!
USAF
Thu Jan 3, 2008 11:42 AM
Re: Give it up!
DoN
Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:47 AM
Pay for performance?
DoD IG
Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:22 PM
I've recently taken a GS job because under NSPS I would be taking a pay cut to stay.
For the record HR specialist, I am a top performer as documented by receiving consecutive "outstanding" performance ratings and numerous significant awards.
In my NSPS actually drives out the people you most want to keep.
So long NSPS --
NSPS and the January Raise
Army
Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:09 PM
What my agency has done will make understanding the pay raise even more convoluted. Since we are under NSPS, they are taking half of the raise for the pay pool, and a portion of the remaining half will go towards increasing our salary, and the remainder will be provided as a bonus. And they say that there won't be a discrepancy between GS and NSPS personnel. This is one example of why a large number of personnel under NSPS have chosen to retire rather than continue under NSPS.
Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
USCG
Wed Jan 2, 2008 11:55 AM
Why is NSPS unfair. Well all you federal employees who voted for Bush can thank only yourselfs for this. It's no brainer that the Republicans are union busters and anti-working class corporate, power hungry, greed mongers. And by the way the old system worked very well. The old system was designed to admonish poor performers and reward good performers. It was up to management to get off their duffs and do the paper work and exercise that right. The NSPS system takes care of the brown nosers and ___ kissers. Those that are reward because of good performance consider yourself lucky, hope you never fall out of "social grace" with your boss requardles how well you do your job. Just look the other way and never stand up for what's right meaning never "blow the wistle".
Re: Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
Army
Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:18 AM
Re: Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
DEPT. AIR FORCE
Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:20 PM
Re: Re: And then there is NSPS - MORE CONFUSION
DLA
Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:56 AM
Fat Cat DC Folks!
BOR
Thu Jan 3, 2008 9:39 AM
Why are the DC folks getting one percentage point greater with the 3-percent and the 3.5-percent raise (3.49 and 4.49 percent)? No where else in the country are they getting one whole percentage point difference. It seams that the fat cats in Washington just got fatter. Their representatives must be looking out for their interests, not the rest of the country's.
NSPS better---someone swallowed the Kool-Aid
USN
Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:15 AM
For Hard Worker -Army. Perhaps your perception is your reality but your comment on a military member having no idea how important an appraisal is for an employees career is way off base. They have been annually evaluated since they entered the military and although the Army's evaluation system is different than the Navy or Air Forces, they are years ahead of their civilian counterparts on evaluating, both in writing and confronting real time issues, which I see as an ongoing problem with feds. Status quo doesn't get you promoted in the military, in fact they have what is known as "high year tenure" and you are forced to leave if not promoted, and you are promoted by your evaluations. So please, think about the experience most military employees have at writing evaluations (performace) and take advantage of it, that is if your performance is good and you are not one of many fearful of loosing your guaranteed annual COLA as your only basis for a raise.
NSPS
Air Force
Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:42 AM
I just converted over to NSPS and I look forward to the challenge of knowing that if I outperform the GS bozo working next to me that I may get rewarded for my performance compared to sitting around collecting dust until retirement. For those who complain about NSPS, use it to your advantage and if you out-perform and not get recognized, it is the supervisor's fault, not NSPS. Take a look at the daily news and thankfully you are not in a company that is outsourcing it's work to a 3rd world nation as well as the company going belly up in an economy that should be prosperring but for some reason is not as stable as working for the federal government...
AVERAGE RATING BREEDS COMPLACENCY
AF
Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:36 AM
I've been a "GS" worker for over 20 years and I certainly am not retired on the job. I took a new position (my first under NSPS) this past year and received my rating this week - a "3" with ONE share. I was quite disheartened (as were a few coworkers who have been here several years) and then to learn that my annual raise will suffer as well. Fortunately my "high 3" was completed before I ever got here. If most emplyees are average and get 3's (when they really contribute more than expected), I feel NSPS will breed complacency in the work place.
Question for NSPS people
DOD
Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:17 PM
My organization is not converted yet. Many of us are matrixed to other activities (some over 5 yrs.). Are any of the current NSPS people matrixed away from their home base? If so, whose pay pool are you in, your home base or the activity to which you are matrixed? If the home base, what weight does a performance score from another organization carry in the pay pool and advocacy parts? If you are in the pool of the agency you are matrixed to, do they give you equal treatment to their own personnel? I assume that our job slots will still belong to the home base after conversion and we will still be rented from the home base? Is that the way it works?
SES AND NSPS NEED NOT APPLY!
DEPT. AIR FORCE
Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:33 PM
If NSPS is so wonderful why haven't the SESers and Congress placed themselves under it's spell? I have a feeling that we who are about to enter this "brave new world" of pay for performance for will pay a big price with very limited returns -- especially those at the top end of a pay band. Cutting cost is the real bottom line in NSPS.
this rais increase
i am agency-free
Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:40 PM
the bureau of labor statistics says that CPI increase from 3/2007-3/2008 was a touch under 4%... so if the raise proposed for fed emps is 3.0-3.5%, then doesn't that mean they're getting a pay cut?
Pay Raise Effect for NSPS
Army
Tue Sep 9, 2008 7:07 AM
All articles ref pay/pay raise always address GS pay. Is there anyway to show how pay raise will effect NSPS pay?
My first time of reading FedSmith Great info.
Army Research Laboratory
Fri Dec 5, 2008 4:08 AM
I am about to take a job overseas in Europe and the agency is on NSPS. I have heard good and bad. My impression is not good. Especially in my case looking at retirement in about 4 years. I may take a dive if I change systems. Volunteers thanks for the info. I knew nothing except what some TSP personnel told me and they are all unhappy.