Federal Employee DoD, DSCP Tue Apr 8, 2008 9:34 AM
I am a rehired annuitant taking online Master's classes in Education which is what I was rehired to do. Teach. I was getting reimbursed for these classes, but was recently told that my classes should not be paid for if I am temporary. If I want these classes paid I would have to come back permanently. Can you look into this situation? My education would only help me develop and teach classes for the government and possibly be useful as others retire and do not return.
The Wages of Sin
Reformed Conservative DFAS Tue Apr 8, 2008 9:47 AM
Well, who'd have thought? You kill a million babies a year, give or take, since 1972, and you end up with a shortage of adults in 2008.
No one could ever have predicted this.
Re: The Wages of Sin
Management Analyst DOE Tue Apr 8, 2008 4:07 PM
Sir, you have the right to whatever opinion/s you have ricoheting in the "forum" that exist between your ears where, I'm sure, most everything's appropriate in you view. However, this is not an appropriate forum for such a tasteless remark.
Re: The Wages of Sin
Former Injury Comp Clerk DoD Tue Apr 8, 2008 5:49 PM
Typical liberal. Tolerant until one of your sacred cows is being gored.
Then, heresy will not be tolerated. Let the ad hominems fly.
Re: The Wages of Sin
Reformed Conservative DFAS Wed Apr 9, 2008 10:43 AM
Management analyst: do you have any math to back up what you're saying? I'm using the same math used in "Freakonomics" as a possible cause for lowered crime rates.
shift happens
IT Specialist USDA Tue Apr 8, 2008 10:18 AM
hmm, one day the news tells us up to 1/2 the students in some high schools are not graduating. The next day we hear there is a major shortage of high tech workers. What a surprise. Could someone put this together, please. A trillion dollars spent here could send all of those kids to school. Bring our money home!!
Re: shift happens
Analyst DOD Wed May 7, 2008 10:57 AM
Money does not make a child stay in school.
I agree
Retured DoD Tue Apr 8, 2008 10:18 AM
Shift Happens
retirement
engineering tech dod Tue Apr 8, 2008 1:50 PM
just curious my department offered a VISP/VERA I am covered under it
however I only have 6 years in. if I wanted to leave would it be worth my while to go contractor to make more pay. I am 39 years old.
Right Hand Shoots Left Foot
Eng. Tech DOD Tue Apr 8, 2008 3:21 PM
Right Hand Shoots Left Foot-(My Title)
In two emails today from SAME person at HQ.
1st. email:
-Panic !!, everone is retiring, spend lots $ on perks like
hiring bonuses, relocation perks, raises, tuition reimbusments , etc. etc. etc. or we will loose our
in-house technical capability !!
2nd email:
"We will continue as planned with contracting
out of design work to various sized private firms...."
Re: Right Hand Shoots Left Foot
Not Surprised IRS Tue Apr 8, 2008 4:30 PM
I usually refer to that type of mixed message as: "Never mind the right hand and the left hand, at this point, the thumbs have no F#%$^* idea what the fingers are up to."
the future will be to late.............
Supply Tech USAF Tue Apr 8, 2008 7:55 PM
Some local politician recently called Oklahoma high schools "Drop out factories". If parents, teachers & school board members would stop shifting the blame on the recent failures of our public school system and get back to the core values of teaching & leading, maybe some of these kids would have a brighter future, and maybe that would fill some of these positions.
hard to believe
it veterans administration Wed Apr 9, 2008 7:32 AM
If there are so many available jobs.Why is there any
unemployment? many layed - off workers are highly
skilled.
A shift will happen in the future - labor shortage
Business Development Specialist U.S. Small Business Administration Wed Apr 9, 2008 9:31 AM
Four people in my office of ten, that has beeb stripped down from 37-two years ago (to outsource government jobs) have educated children in their early to mid 30's out of work. Companies want us to think their is a labor shortage, so they can hire cheap labor from out of the country. My daughter an Engineer has not had a raise in four years and is working a second job at Sears Dept. Store. God Bless Sears because no one else would hire her she was over qualified. What about my other friend who's daughter just graduated from ASU with her degree in teaching and $150,000 in educational loans at 8.5% with her first job paying $33,500/year. ASU has increased their costs 425% over the last 2-years and who is making that money? Stop the crying about labor shortage, pay the prevailing wage.
Shift Will Happen -- Baby Boomers
A/C FAA Wed Apr 9, 2008 10:07 AM
Someone once said, "Poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part." Why are we not training more young workers to fill the slots of eligible retirees? The baby boomers have already had their opportunity to work & save & accumulate for the future. The majority of them are not hurting, just becoming greedy. If we would give more dignity to blue (& white) collar jobs, & more opportunity for our young people to train into them, we would be doing our citizenship a great service & boost our economy at the same time. Our youth are bored, unstimulated, & hopelessly paralyzed in the current systems of education & opportunity. Let's get behind them & give them the hope & the work that gives them dignity & a living wage so that they can be productive citizens with a share in the spoils -- & not fear to have families, & gratefully contribute to this society. Retirement-eligible folks should step aside & give youth a chance, unless there is a significantly worthy reason not to.
Re: Shift Will Happen -- Baby Boomers
WORKERBEE DOD Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:27 AM
You hit the nail on the head. Job openings at my installation are very few. Those that can retire aren't doing it, whatever their reasons are. It has created a stagnant work pool. It used to be that people would retire, current workers would compete for vacancies left by them. Younger workers would come in at entry levels to learn an organization from bottom to top. A good theory.
Labor shortage
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Wed Apr 9, 2008 10:27 AM
Used to be that someone with basic literacy was considered able to do a great deal of the work available. Not as many had higher degrees and not all the jobs needed one. Now, even for work that I have done well for a most of my life, degrees are becoming required. We have positions, that less than a decade ago, were open to high school graduates who learned the fine points over several years of working in an office with several experienced people. Now, they come straight from college, enter an internship program, and spend several years learning the job from a few more experienced people. I have yet to see any practical difference in performance between the two groups, except the young college grads are being promoted over the old "shirt-sleeve" grads. Some of the kids are pretty good...the rest are self-aggrandizing whiners. But there is a program that costs more, degree requirements that reduce the numbers of available workers, and absolutely no gain work quality.
This is a point well taken. Unrealistic hiring requirements shrink the already small pool of potential applicants even further. I have met (and worked under) any number of half-literate college graduates in my time, so I am not nearly as impressed by a degree as OPM seems to be. I think it might be a good idea to jettison the degree worship and reinstitute a Civil Service test. Such a test could weed out half-literate applicants regardless of how many years they had sat in school, something the resume-cv approach does not do (the hiring office has no way of knowing if an illiterate, or half-literate, applicant, hired someone to write his resume).
Need for skilled foreign workers
Team Leader SSA Wed Apr 9, 2008 1:32 PM
Mr. Armstrong's article is a self serving BS, (outright lie?). He and Bill Gates aren't worried about the numbers and quality of the American worker. They just don't want to have to pay for it, so they "rent seek" by having foreign shills imported by the pound; willing to live in virtual communes. My son-in-law just started a full time IT job, one not even up to his skill level, AFTER A YEAR OF BEING OUT OF WORK. One of the respondents to his resume let the cat out of the bag with their promise of living quarters with five or six other workers, blankets and mattress included.
Yeah, yeah...
HR Guy Been Around Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:41 AM
Here we go again...and it isn't going to happen soon because American knowledge workers are staying on the job longer, a reflection of active lives, expanding life spans and extended good health. There is ALWAYS a shortage of professionals because entry is restricted - Want more doctors, pharmacists, or engineeers? Then open the professional schools to more students - there are plenty qualified who are passed over and left out. In the meantime, for many overhead services, self-service is the future - checking out groceries, banking at ATMs, even stock brokering and PCs. It's all about productivity. New processes offset the need for manufacturing workers - an auto today uses about 20% of the human assembly input as in 1985. The auto industry is swamped with workers it can't shed. Yes, a shift will happen, and is continually happening - but it has nothing to do with boomers rushing out of the productive economy into leisure status, and it doesn't appear that it will soon, either.
Re: Yeah, yeah...
Analyst DOD Wed May 7, 2008 11:16 AM
I absolutely agree with Mr. HR Guy, Been Around. We (boomers) have nothing to do with it, but we do make for good fall guys.
Part-Time
Program Technician Farm Service Agency Wed May 7, 2008 12:46 PM
I would like to see the Federal Government offer in leiu of retirement part time work in our present job.
Don't know if I agree
Taxpayer USA Wed May 7, 2008 2:59 PM
It appears to me that the unemployment rate is on the rise, not coming down and there are still many Americans who have give up looking for work.
Hiring Retirees
Cubicle-confined Wage-Slave DoD Mon May 12, 2008 12:18 PM
Good article and I agree. However, if you do not have a degree, or it is a degree which the (usually) under 30ish interviewer is familar, all the experience in the world will be absolutely useless. Why? Most under 30s have absolutely no idea anyone that has not undergone the "College Experience" can do anything other than ask, "Would you like to Supersize that?" They have never had contact with anyone that is not exactly like them, and most do not want to, either. I have been on both sides. I was a Skilled Trades worker (Tool-and-Die Machinist) that became an Engineer. (Yes, I worked my way through.) The prejeduce towards those without a sheepskin is monolithic. And, if you did get one but "have dirt under your nails" it can still be evident, too. If you retire without College, you better go into business for yourself if you can. You won't get hired otherwise.
WHO DO YOU KNOW??
SUPPLY SPECIALIST DOD Tue Jul 8, 2008 6:26 AM
I feel it’s completely unfair that a lot of places require college education. Yes, it helps for some careers, such as Nursing, Teaching, Engineering etc. But for most of us in office settings, no matter how much college one has, work settings are completely different than what one learns in college. There are millions of people out there with college experience and loans they cannot pay cuz they do not have a job, that “requires some experience in that field”. I myself never attend college, but, I was very fortunate to get hired with govt. I do believe "luck" has a lot to do with finding a job. It's still a "who you know" world, in order to get your foot in the door.
Worker Shortage
Environmental Protection SPecialist EPA Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:52 PM
How can there be a growing shortage of skilled workers in the US when more and more engineering, scientific, automobile worker, manaufafutring and phone operator jobs are being outsourced? Why is there so much unemployment in the US? Is there really worker shortage or shortage of foreign workers who accept lower wages and exert pressure and competition on American skilled workers to accept lower wages and lower workplace safety standards? Why is the fastest growing job in the US, retail clerk? I find this entire article to be bogus and an introduction to open the floodgates to foreign workers in order to squeeze American workers.
Supporting Education for the Rehired Annuitant
DoD, DSCP
Tue Apr 8, 2008 9:34 AM
I am a rehired annuitant taking online Master's classes in Education which is what I was rehired to do. Teach. I was getting reimbursed for these classes, but was recently told that my classes should not be paid for if I am temporary. If I want these classes paid I would have to come back permanently. Can you look into this situation? My education would only help me develop and teach classes for the government and possibly be useful as others retire and do not return.
The Wages of Sin
DFAS
Tue Apr 8, 2008 9:47 AM
Well, who'd have thought? You kill a million babies a year, give or take, since 1972, and you end up with a shortage of adults in 2008.
No one could ever have predicted this.
Re: The Wages of Sin
DOE
Tue Apr 8, 2008 4:07 PM
Re: The Wages of Sin
DoD
Tue Apr 8, 2008 5:49 PM
Then, heresy will not be tolerated. Let the ad hominems fly.
Re: The Wages of Sin
DFAS
Wed Apr 9, 2008 10:43 AM
shift happens
USDA
Tue Apr 8, 2008 10:18 AM
hmm, one day the news tells us up to 1/2 the students in some high schools are not graduating. The next day we hear there is a major shortage of high tech workers. What a surprise. Could someone put this together, please. A trillion dollars spent here could send all of those kids to school. Bring our money home!!
Re: shift happens
DOD
Wed May 7, 2008 10:57 AM
I agree
DoD
Tue Apr 8, 2008 10:18 AM
Shift Happens
retirement
dod
Tue Apr 8, 2008 1:50 PM
just curious my department offered a VISP/VERA I am covered under it
however I only have 6 years in. if I wanted to leave would it be worth my while to go contractor to make more pay. I am 39 years old.
Right Hand Shoots Left Foot
DOD
Tue Apr 8, 2008 3:21 PM
Right Hand Shoots Left Foot-(My Title)
In two emails today from SAME person at HQ.
1st. email:
-Panic !!, everone is retiring, spend lots $ on perks like
hiring bonuses, relocation perks, raises, tuition reimbusments , etc. etc. etc. or we will loose our
in-house technical capability !!
2nd email:
"We will continue as planned with contracting
out of design work to various sized private firms...."
Re: Right Hand Shoots Left Foot
IRS
Tue Apr 8, 2008 4:30 PM
the future will be to late.............
USAF
Tue Apr 8, 2008 7:55 PM
Some local politician recently called Oklahoma high schools "Drop out factories". If parents, teachers & school board members would stop shifting the blame on the recent failures of our public school system and get back to the core values of teaching & leading, maybe some of these kids would have a brighter future, and maybe that would fill some of these positions.
hard to believe
veterans administration
Wed Apr 9, 2008 7:32 AM
If there are so many available jobs.Why is there any
unemployment? many layed - off workers are highly
skilled.
A shift will happen in the future - labor shortage
U.S. Small Business Administration
Wed Apr 9, 2008 9:31 AM
Four people in my office of ten, that has beeb stripped down from 37-two years ago (to outsource government jobs) have educated children in their early to mid 30's out of work. Companies want us to think their is a labor shortage, so they can hire cheap labor from out of the country. My daughter an Engineer has not had a raise in four years and is working a second job at Sears Dept. Store. God Bless Sears because no one else would hire her she was over qualified. What about my other friend who's daughter just graduated from ASU with her degree in teaching and $150,000 in educational loans at 8.5% with her first job paying $33,500/year. ASU has increased their costs 425% over the last 2-years and who is making that money? Stop the crying about labor shortage, pay the prevailing wage.
Shift Will Happen -- Baby Boomers
FAA
Wed Apr 9, 2008 10:07 AM
Someone once said, "Poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part." Why are we not training more young workers to fill the slots of eligible retirees? The baby boomers have already had their opportunity to work & save & accumulate for the future. The majority of them are not hurting, just becoming greedy. If we would give more dignity to blue (& white) collar jobs, & more opportunity for our young people to train into them, we would be doing our citizenship a great service & boost our economy at the same time. Our youth are bored, unstimulated, & hopelessly paralyzed in the current systems of education & opportunity. Let's get behind them & give them the hope & the work that gives them dignity & a living wage so that they can be productive citizens with a share in the spoils -- & not fear to have families, & gratefully contribute to this society. Retirement-eligible folks should step aside & give youth a chance, unless there is a significantly worthy reason not to.
Re: Shift Will Happen -- Baby Boomers
DOD
Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:27 AM
Labor shortage
DOD
Wed Apr 9, 2008 10:27 AM
Used to be that someone with basic literacy was considered able to do a great deal of the work available. Not as many had higher degrees and not all the jobs needed one. Now, even for work that I have done well for a most of my life, degrees are becoming required. We have positions, that less than a decade ago, were open to high school graduates who learned the fine points over several years of working in an office with several experienced people. Now, they come straight from college, enter an internship program, and spend several years learning the job from a few more experienced people. I have yet to see any practical difference in performance between the two groups, except the young college grads are being promoted over the old "shirt-sleeve" grads. Some of the kids are pretty good...the rest are self-aggrandizing whiners. But there is a program that costs more, degree requirements that reduce the numbers of available workers, and absolutely no gain work quality.
Re: Labor shortage
DFAS
Wed Apr 9, 2008 2:33 PM
Need for skilled foreign workers
SSA
Wed Apr 9, 2008 1:32 PM
Mr. Armstrong's article is a self serving BS, (outright lie?). He and Bill Gates aren't worried about the numbers and quality of the American worker. They just don't want to have to pay for it, so they "rent seek" by having foreign shills imported by the pound; willing to live in virtual communes. My son-in-law just started a full time IT job, one not even up to his skill level, AFTER A YEAR OF BEING OUT OF WORK. One of the respondents to his resume let the cat out of the bag with their promise of living quarters with five or six other workers, blankets and mattress included.
Yeah, yeah...
Been Around
Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:41 AM
Here we go again...and it isn't going to happen soon because American knowledge workers are staying on the job longer, a reflection of active lives, expanding life spans and extended good health. There is ALWAYS a shortage of professionals because entry is restricted - Want more doctors, pharmacists, or engineeers? Then open the professional schools to more students - there are plenty qualified who are passed over and left out. In the meantime, for many overhead services, self-service is the future - checking out groceries, banking at ATMs, even stock brokering and PCs. It's all about productivity. New processes offset the need for manufacturing workers - an auto today uses about 20% of the human assembly input as in 1985. The auto industry is swamped with workers it can't shed. Yes, a shift will happen, and is continually happening - but it has nothing to do with boomers rushing out of the productive economy into leisure status, and it doesn't appear that it will soon, either.
Re: Yeah, yeah...
DOD
Wed May 7, 2008 11:16 AM
Part-Time
Farm Service Agency
Wed May 7, 2008 12:46 PM
I would like to see the Federal Government offer in leiu of retirement part time work in our present job.
Don't know if I agree
USA
Wed May 7, 2008 2:59 PM
It appears to me that the unemployment rate is on the rise, not coming down and there are still many Americans who have give up looking for work.
Hiring Retirees
DoD
Mon May 12, 2008 12:18 PM
Good article and I agree. However, if you do not have a degree, or it is a degree which the (usually) under 30ish interviewer is familar, all the experience in the world will be absolutely useless. Why? Most under 30s have absolutely no idea anyone that has not undergone the "College Experience" can do anything other than ask, "Would you like to Supersize that?" They have never had contact with anyone that is not exactly like them, and most do not want to, either. I have been on both sides. I was a Skilled Trades worker (Tool-and-Die Machinist) that became an Engineer. (Yes, I worked my way through.) The prejeduce towards those without a sheepskin is monolithic. And, if you did get one but "have dirt under your nails" it can still be evident, too. If you retire without College, you better go into business for yourself if you can. You won't get hired otherwise.
WHO DO YOU KNOW??
DOD
Tue Jul 8, 2008 6:26 AM
I feel it’s completely unfair that a lot of places require college education. Yes, it helps for some careers, such as Nursing, Teaching, Engineering etc. But for most of us in office settings, no matter how much college one has, work settings are completely different than what one learns in college. There are millions of people out there with college experience and loans they cannot pay cuz they do not have a job, that “requires some experience in that field”. I myself never attend college, but, I was very fortunate to get hired with govt. I do believe "luck" has a lot to do with finding a job. It's still a "who you know" world, in order to get your foot in the door.
Worker Shortage
EPA
Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:52 PM
How can there be a growing shortage of skilled workers in the US when more and more engineering, scientific, automobile worker, manaufafutring and phone operator jobs are being outsourced? Why is there so much unemployment in the US? Is there really worker shortage or shortage of foreign workers who accept lower wages and exert pressure and competition on American skilled workers to accept lower wages and lower workplace safety standards? Why is the fastest growing job in the US, retail clerk? I find this entire article to be bogus and an introduction to open the floodgates to foreign workers in order to squeeze American workers.