I wonder how they would have ruled had Ms Waters and Mr McTonnell not actually married. Depending on the state, she might have built her case on the fact that they were married in common law. The 16 day marriage may have served to overshadow the legal status of their relationship prior to the wedding.
Re: married 9 month rule
Analyst DON Mon May 5, 2008 9:20 AM
That would have made no difference. Quite simply, if you haven't changed your designee, that's where it goes. This happens frequently. When there is a life-changing event, such as a divorce, the first thing you should do is look at all the forms you've left the former spouse on...there's life insurance, the one for TSP, one for your unused annual leave, etc. Even with a will designating the current spouse to get the money, if the above forms don't state so, it goes to whomever you've designated on the forms.
Marriage, Death and Survivor Annuity
QAS DCMA Mon May 5, 2008 8:52 AM
Thank You so much for this article. Having an ex-wife and not getting around to correcting my own paperwork is something I just didn't get done until I read this story, what a nightmare and if it was me I'd come back to haunt my blood-sucking ex-wife as I wouldn't want her to get one red cent. Also suggest to anyone who may have an ex-spouse is to see an attorney and make sure all of your last wishes are clearly defined.
Social Security
Accounting Tech Homeland Security Mon May 5, 2008 9:43 AM
My husband and I are federal employess. We divorced last year after 24 years. I am entitled to his social security pension and also if I remarry do I still get his social security since we were married over 10 years?
Ex
Soil Conservationist USDA Mon May 5, 2008 9:54 AM
The week after the judge banged the gavel and sentenced me to 7 years of alimony I made sure I changed all the forms & my will so she would get the least amount legally due her.
Quite a sad situation, and I feel badly for the new wife. However, I'm glad the documentation stands as it was written. Maybe it was the intent of the deceased to have his new wife receive the funds, but as they were together a significant number of years, he should have already taken steps to make the changes prior to his death. No, I don't think the way this turned out is "right" for the current spouse, but the documentation is clear, and should not be open to debate. "Signed, sealed, delivered", as they say.
Widow v. X
Atty SSA Mon May 5, 2008 1:42 PM
A common law marriage is just as valid as if a ceremonial marriage took place, but to be common law married, there must be an intent that the parties consider themselves married - if one of the parties said they "meant" to get "married" later, or anything else that indicated that they did not both consider themselves already married, there is no common law union - it has nothing to do with just being together no matter what time period is involved (most states have no time requirement, but most have done away with CLM. No matter how long married - it's the named beneficiary that gets proceeds! But - 9 mos to be a widow?! This is diff than state law which would have no time requirement = marry+deatah+widow. Check your forms so your intentions are stated! Hate to see it go to an X, esp after 20 years as an X!!
Need serious revision
OAC BLM Mon May 5, 2008 4:22 PM
I've said it before - the regulations regarding spousal benefits need at least one major revision - divorce should automatically terminate the spousal beneficiary designation.
Re: Need serious revision
Civ DoD Wed May 7, 2008 5:22 AM
I disagree with your statement that divorce should automatically terminate spousal benefits. While that may seem like a logical step, there could be a myriad of reasons that the Fed spouse may want to continue with life ins, unpaid compensation, etc., for the former spouse. That's why there are separate forms to make those changes.
Re: Need serious revision
PA DOL Wed May 7, 2008 9:31 AM
There are some circumstances for the ex to be named beneficiary. My husband's ex had him named as beneficiary (even though she was remarried). She said this way she was sure their children would get the mone.
Re: Need serious revision
none none Mon Sep 7, 2009 1:32 PM
I don't agree....It is the person who owns the TSP's responsibility to choose his or her beneficiary. Maybe the x-spouse is the perfect choice because the money will be kept in the family. Who can decide for another where their money should go after their death. The beneficiary is the choice of the deceased and should be respected.
POD
Thorn in the Side DOD Tue May 6, 2008 10:03 AM
I wish the article had said what Anne McTonnell did with the money, since she apparently thought Ms. Waters should get it. She may have given it to Ms. Waters.
Anyway, this highlights something we in Western society have forgotten: Marriage is a business relationship. Romance is personal, but marriage involves legal rights and restrictions, property rights, inheritance - things that require a lawyer to straighten out if they aren't kept straight to begin with. Ms. Waters made the same kind of mistake most of us make, thinking that "love" solves all problems, that intentions are as good as deeds. She should have required that McTonnell give her copies of documents naming her beneficiary, before using up so many of her own resources - time, freedom, money, all the things that one invests in a marriage-type relationship - on him.
Re: POD
HR Specialist NASA Tue May 6, 2008 6:04 PM
Nicely put. The courts have confirmed that "business is business." Employees, if you haven't viewed your SF2823 (for FEGLI), your SF1152 (for Unpaid Compensation) and your SF2802 or SF3102 (for any CSRS or FERS lump-sum retirement benefit) you need to do so! With the advent of the electronic Personnel Folder (eOPF) employees are able to view all their documents from their desk, without having to visit the HR office. Now that it is so easy, what's your excuse?
spousal & ex-spousal right to annuity
atty SSA Wed May 7, 2008 9:41 AM
Comments are so right! Marriage is not just a religious issue - it is goverened by law of each state. Minister or other may perform ceremony, but NOT without a license from the state. Annnuities are governed by the rules established for that annuity so for your wishes to be followed, changes must be made accordingly and it is the employees responsibility to know what is required and do it. If divorce is pending or granted, get those papers in unless you want to have $$$ left to ex. Annuity is similar to any other insurance policy - you can name whomever you wish as beneficiary, but if you change your mind, change it before you die!
Separation Agreement and Divorce Decree
Social Insurance Specialist SSA Thu May 8, 2008 3:49 PM
I hope they checked the separation agreement and/or divorce settlement and divorce decree to see if the deceased's annuity was already paid to the ex-wife as a part of the divorce settlement.
Spouse Annuity
Federal employee VA Sat May 10, 2008 10:26 AM
My ex spouse was a retired federal employee. We diovrced after 20 years of marriage and he died less than two years later. I was designated to recieve the spouse annuity and there was no other spouse (former or current). OPM denied the claim because the divorce did not specifically stipulate that the annuity was to remain intact (a court order is required). Perhaps the difference is between CSRS and FERS retirees.
Survivor Annuity
Program Management Analyst IRS Mon May 12, 2008 10:22 AM
This should be a lesson to those that are in a relationship. It is a must that you do the paperwork first. He should have changed designated beneficiary right after the divorce. Twenty years is a long time to end up with nothing.
Marriage, Death and Your Survivor Annuity
Program Management Analyst IRS Mon May 12, 2008 10:43 AM
Right after my divorce, I changed all my paper work. My exspouse name was removed from everything. Men and women, please make all necessary changes with your personnel office after a divorce or marriage. It is not fair to your current spouse or partner to end up with nothing. It would really be a shame if there were children involved. I do think that some polices and procedures need to be modified. There are more people now days in a common-law type relationship or partner type relationship than an actual marriage. The govenment should possibly accept partners and common-law type relationships.
TSP death benefit
none none Mon Sep 7, 2009 1:01 PM
My x-husband named me as his beneficiary to his TSP fund and never changed it after 14 years and his recent. 4 years, remarriage. It is certain now, after his death, that the money will be shared with our 5 sons. Rules are rules and should not be tampered with no mater what. Nobody can speak for the deceased like a tsp-3 form. Don't change anything.
married 9 month rule
USDA
Mon May 5, 2008 8:38 AM
I wonder how they would have ruled had Ms Waters and Mr McTonnell not actually married. Depending on the state, she might have built her case on the fact that they were married in common law. The 16 day marriage may have served to overshadow the legal status of their relationship prior to the wedding.
Re: married 9 month rule
DON
Mon May 5, 2008 9:20 AM
Marriage, Death and Survivor Annuity
DCMA
Mon May 5, 2008 8:52 AM
Thank You so much for this article. Having an ex-wife and not getting around to correcting my own paperwork is something I just didn't get done until I read this story, what a nightmare and if it was me I'd come back to haunt my blood-sucking ex-wife as I wouldn't want her to get one red cent. Also suggest to anyone who may have an ex-spouse is to see an attorney and make sure all of your last wishes are clearly defined.
Social Security
Homeland Security
Mon May 5, 2008 9:43 AM
My husband and I are federal employess. We divorced last year after 24 years. I am entitled to his social security pension and also if I remarry do I still get his social security since we were married over 10 years?
Ex
USDA
Mon May 5, 2008 9:54 AM
The week after the judge banged the gavel and sentenced me to 7 years of alimony I made sure I changed all the forms & my will so she would get the least amount legally due her.
DEATH & SURVIVOR ANNUITY
COAST GUARD
Mon May 5, 2008 1:42 PM
Quite a sad situation, and I feel badly for the new wife. However, I'm glad the documentation stands as it was written. Maybe it was the intent of the deceased to have his new wife receive the funds, but as they were together a significant number of years, he should have already taken steps to make the changes prior to his death. No, I don't think the way this turned out is "right" for the current spouse, but the documentation is clear, and should not be open to debate. "Signed, sealed, delivered", as they say.
Widow v. X
SSA
Mon May 5, 2008 1:42 PM
A common law marriage is just as valid as if a ceremonial marriage took place, but to be common law married, there must be an intent that the parties consider themselves married - if one of the parties said they "meant" to get "married" later, or anything else that indicated that they did not both consider themselves already married, there is no common law union - it has nothing to do with just being together no matter what time period is involved (most states have no time requirement, but most have done away with CLM. No matter how long married - it's the named beneficiary that gets proceeds! But - 9 mos to be a widow?! This is diff than state law which would have no time requirement = marry+deatah+widow. Check your forms so your intentions are stated! Hate to see it go to an X, esp after 20 years as an X!!
Need serious revision
BLM
Mon May 5, 2008 4:22 PM
I've said it before - the regulations regarding spousal benefits need at least one major revision - divorce should automatically terminate the spousal beneficiary designation.
Re: Need serious revision
DoD
Wed May 7, 2008 5:22 AM
Re: Need serious revision
DOL
Wed May 7, 2008 9:31 AM
Re: Need serious revision
none
Mon Sep 7, 2009 1:32 PM
POD
DOD
Tue May 6, 2008 10:03 AM
I wish the article had said what Anne McTonnell did with the money, since she apparently thought Ms. Waters should get it. She may have given it to Ms. Waters.
Anyway, this highlights something we in Western society have forgotten: Marriage is a business relationship. Romance is personal, but marriage involves legal rights and restrictions, property rights, inheritance - things that require a lawyer to straighten out if they aren't kept straight to begin with. Ms. Waters made the same kind of mistake most of us make, thinking that "love" solves all problems, that intentions are as good as deeds. She should have required that McTonnell give her copies of documents naming her beneficiary, before using up so many of her own resources - time, freedom, money, all the things that one invests in a marriage-type relationship - on him.
Re: POD
NASA
Tue May 6, 2008 6:04 PM
spousal & ex-spousal right to annuity
SSA
Wed May 7, 2008 9:41 AM
Comments are so right! Marriage is not just a religious issue - it is goverened by law of each state. Minister or other may perform ceremony, but NOT without a license from the state. Annnuities are governed by the rules established for that annuity so for your wishes to be followed, changes must be made accordingly and it is the employees responsibility to know what is required and do it. If divorce is pending or granted, get those papers in unless you want to have $$$ left to ex. Annuity is similar to any other insurance policy - you can name whomever you wish as beneficiary, but if you change your mind, change it before you die!
Separation Agreement and Divorce Decree
SSA
Thu May 8, 2008 3:49 PM
I hope they checked the separation agreement and/or divorce settlement and divorce decree to see if the deceased's annuity was already paid to the ex-wife as a part of the divorce settlement.
Spouse Annuity
VA
Sat May 10, 2008 10:26 AM
My ex spouse was a retired federal employee. We diovrced after 20 years of marriage and he died less than two years later. I was designated to recieve the spouse annuity and there was no other spouse (former or current). OPM denied the claim because the divorce did not specifically stipulate that the annuity was to remain intact (a court order is required). Perhaps the difference is between CSRS and FERS retirees.
Survivor Annuity
IRS
Mon May 12, 2008 10:22 AM
This should be a lesson to those that are in a relationship. It is a must that you do the paperwork first. He should have changed designated beneficiary right after the divorce. Twenty years is a long time to end up with nothing.
Marriage, Death and Your Survivor Annuity
IRS
Mon May 12, 2008 10:43 AM
Right after my divorce, I changed all my paper work. My exspouse name was removed from everything. Men and women, please make all necessary changes with your personnel office after a divorce or marriage. It is not fair to your current spouse or partner to end up with nothing. It would really be a shame if there were children involved. I do think that some polices and procedures need to be modified. There are more people now days in a common-law type relationship or partner type relationship than an actual marriage. The govenment should possibly accept partners and common-law type relationships.
TSP death benefit
none
Mon Sep 7, 2009 1:01 PM
My x-husband named me as his beneficiary to his TSP fund and never changed it after 14 years and his recent. 4 years, remarriage. It is certain now, after his death, that the money will be shared with our 5 sons. Rules are rules and should not be tampered with no mater what. Nobody can speak for the deceased like a tsp-3 form. Don't change anything.