I'm 57 years old and working as a Term employee for the Forest Service. I plan on working at least 10 more years, more if I stay healthy. I would love to get a permanent position with the government. But try as I might, it just isn't happening.
Retiring Government Employees
Regional Vice President Retired FAA Wed May 7, 2008 9:40 AM
This should not be a surprise to anyone. The FAA has known (since 1981) that this problem would arise about this time - and yet, they have done very little to keep the pipeline flowing. As an ex-FAA air traffic controller, this issue has come up time and time again. The powers that be just looked the other way. Now we, the public, will pay the price!
It will be good to get fresh blood at the top
computer specialist FAA Wed May 7, 2008 9:40 AM
As a 44 year old baby boomer, I have little in common with the stereotypical boomer. It will do the FAA a world of good to get rid of the "old guys" at the top. They have been a huge detriment to our agency for the last 10 years. If you don't believe it, check the recent news headlines. An influx of new blood in the leadership levels will be fantastic. Bring it on!
contextless statistics
software engineer navair Wed May 7, 2008 9:41 AM
We are very often given statistics with no context with which to evaluate the numbers given. Are thes worst-case numbers (as are those often published for SSA?). Are they assuming that everyone eligible will retire at the earliest opportunity? Are they using actual historical metrics (horrors! the M word!)? Have they POSSIBLY tweaked any historical trends with data derived from polls of people in the 50-65 age group? We just don't know. I am less than impressed when I am presented with such naked numbers and am skeptical of them at best.
Aging Work Force
Area Specialist USDA - Rural Development Wed May 7, 2008 9:42 AM
We need to encourage older workers to retire now so we can replace them now with younger workers. Also, who was it that ever retired that we could not do without? Some older workers are valuable, but not all. Some were promoted just because they were older and outlasted the competition.
Re: Aging Work Force
Project Engineer USAF Wed May 7, 2008 10:03 AM
Right on !!!! Put me at the yop of RIF list.
Re: Aging Work Force
Agent IRS Wed May 7, 2008 10:19 AM
That also can be said of some younger workers my friend. At the IRS, the agency that brings in the money to fund all of you guys, a re0rganization 8 years ago excerbated the problem by segmenting the various divisions within the agency. The problem is the normal bridge that connected agents doing less complex audits to those doing the complex multi-national corporations was removed and the so called "glass ceiling" was installed preventing the normal progression from junior agent to senior agent. The junior agents use to get temporary work assignments with the senior agents to enhance their technical skills. This has been eliminated. Now the senior agents are replaced by people from the outside, which may be fine when times are tough but when times are good, the outsiders get their experience, 3 to 5 years and leave. Also older outsiders come to work because it is a 40 hour week instead of 60 to 70 and after 5 years they take health insurance into retirement.
Re: Aging Work Force
Planner A Big One Wed May 7, 2008 12:58 PM
Ouch! I resemble that remark!
Actually, I'm counting the days until I can retire and will be out of here at that very moment. Some people don't know when to retire and have allowed their job to be their life. How sad. I know, others need to continue working for economic reasons; more power to them.
Re: Aging Work Force
Cubicle-confined Wage-Slave DoD Mon May 12, 2008 11:21 AM
Oh how would I like to retire!! But, the reality of the situation is that even though I have 37+ years of Federeal Service (No Military, all as a DoD civilian, including an Iraq assignment) there is no possible way I can. I am still on CSRS. I need a High 3 to keep from having to fight the cat over supper! My agency found legal ways to avoid paying moving expenses and PCS. We suffered a major financial setback on every move (8 total) although several were to avoid a RIF. We have since had to relocate back home to care for elderly & infirm parents. Since this was "voluntary" they "slimed" out of this too. We had to start over in the housing market, so I will be working at least 8 more years. It's a struggle as my Agency wants to bring in recent Grads at very low grades and push us out, but I go to school constantly and give 110% to pull my weight. A lot of us are in exactly the same fix. We are not here because we want to be here, it's because we have no other choice!
Not I
specialist DOT Wed May 7, 2008 9:43 AM
As long as I remain healthy and can contribute to the effectiveness of the organization I will show up for work every day, BUT I am eligible to retire (62) in 4y 10m 23d 4h 42m as of this post...............
Re: Not I
Reformed Conservative DFAS Wed May 7, 2008 11:32 AM
But who's counting?
I must not be an "older worker" since I don't remember any of the events listed in the article. I do have vague childish memories of my mother being riveted to the TV when the black horses were on (the President Kennedy funeral). I am not sure where that puts me on the scale of older and younger workers.
Incentives Needed
Fed Peasant DOD Wed May 7, 2008 9:56 AM
There needs to financial incentives such as extra earned/accumulated annual leave, a bigger TSP match, & a higher annuity payment for those feds who work past their MRA (minimum retirement age), which is 56 or 57 for many workers. Give them good reasons to stay on an extra 5 or 10 years!!
Re: Incentives Needed
Analyst DOD Wed May 7, 2008 6:52 PM
What about pay?
Support for Mid-career Federal Hires
Management Analyst SSA Wed May 7, 2008 9:57 AM
While I strongly believe that the federal government needs to bring in new employees from the private sector, I am not sure how high the retention rate will be. As a new hire with half of my career in the private sector, I am encountering horrific culture shock, and have no support group available. My peers and supervisory staff have had little or no private sector experience. This can lead to isolation, disappointment, and the sad realization that the national debt left to my children has no viable solution. I have come to question whether penetrating the convoluted federal hiring process was really worth it.
Re: Support for Mid-career Federal Hires
Reformed Conservative DFAS Wed May 7, 2008 1:41 PM
What type of culture shock? It's been ages since I worked in the private sector and I don't remember much about it.
Re: Support for Mid-career Federal Hires
Health Insurance Specialist CMS Fri May 16, 2008 9:40 AM
I am 58 years old and came to this agency 18 months ago after having worked in healthcare administration for more than 25 years. Part of my rationale for seeking employment here was insulation from the turmoil of downsizings, mergers, acquisitions and layoffs that I experienced in a very dynamic industry sector. However, this has been a monumental culture shock for me due to rampant mediocrity and unprofessionalism. Most of my colleagues have been here for decades and many know nothing else other than working for the government. Management is abysmal and I have no doubt that many of my coworkers would find it difficult to survive in the private sector where expectations are higher and commensurate rewards based on performance. I have sat through a number of awards ceremonies here where every single individual gets an award supposedly for performance when everyone knows that they are mostly undeserved and become intrinsically devalued. It is depressing to consider my future here.
Retention
Management Analyst DoD Wed May 7, 2008 9:57 AM
I am 53 years old with 30 years federal service. I have seen nothing in my government service to indicate there is any incentive for me to stay. I have been stating this for about 4 years now to various open forums. What incentives are there for someone like me to continue working for the federal government? With NSPS it is more likely that people like me will leave.
Retiring Govt Workforce
atty SSA Wed May 7, 2008 10:36 AM
Dear FAA comn spec -
44 years old is not considered a baby-boomer. Maybe that is why you have little in common with those you describe as the "stereotypical boomer".
Re: Retiring Govt Workforce
ACO DCMA Wed May 7, 2008 3:22 PM
To the SSA Attorney - a 44-year old person today would have been born in the 1963-64 time frame; the baby boom is generally defined as ending in the mid-60's, making the 44-year olds among the youngest, but still considered baby boomers.
The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
Security Specialist DON Wed May 7, 2008 10:59 AM
I say "let them go!" Many retirement eligibles are just taking up space. They shove it in your face that they can go anytime whenever they're having a bad day or some new policy comes along that they don't like or agree with. They constantly refer to how things used to be or back in their day, etc.. Well, its a new day, time for a change and new ideas. Furthermore, they're holding a spot and preventing others that are just as capable from moving up. Besides that, most won't share their knowledge anyway, so "let them go!"
Re: The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
LMER SPEC DA Wed May 7, 2008 4:44 PM
Why would anyone want to share anything with someone with a rotten attitude like yours let alone their hard gained knowledge? It appears from your comment that you would write it off anyway. If you won't learn from the past you are doomed to repeat it (e.g. Merit Pay= NSPS except with union busting thrown in). The synonym for retirement eligible is volunteer, still standing and fighting the good fight because it does matter not because they want to scrabble in the dirt for the few nickles and dimes PfP may offer. Hey TSM, I think I know who you meant.
Re: The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
Security Specialist DON Thu May 8, 2008 9:22 AM
LMER - Oh, how wrong you are. I spoke from experience. I have always been and will always be a hard-worker; giving 100% plus. Having had the benefit of being a Federal Worker and Reservist, I developed traits that will remain with me forever. Even with the obstacles placed before me, I have always kept moving forward. I am harder on myself than anyone else. I look out for the team, and constantly seek out training that will enhance my professional development as well as my personal development. I've experienced this twice, and for whatever reason these older workers were bitter. When you work with someone that constantly tells you I don't know or look it up yourself, and they've been around 20-30 years and after the Department Head told them to train you, what conclusion am I suppose to come to? But, I will never screw myself or blemish my good standing just because they won't share. I find the answers myself and I share what I've learned. So, like I said, "let them go!"
Re: The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
Contract Specialist VHA Thu May 8, 2008 4:32 PM
Hey Mr. DON,
Ever hear of "age discrimination?" Where I work we share all information and knowledge with new employees hoping they stay so our workload decreases. Do they stay? No! As soon as they hit a GS-12 in a few years they fly out of here. So us "old folks" keep carrying all the heavy contracts and train more new people. It happens over and over again. All I see is value is placed on recruiting, no retention, and no value is placed on those with knowledge. We are nothing but work horses. Maybe that's why the knowledgable folks you work with don't share any more. It's a vicious cycle...
Re: The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
Buzzy the Worker Bee Federal Agency Tue May 20, 2008 10:50 AM
I've been a Fed for years, plus a couple of stints in the private sector, and I agree with DON. We have lots of folks here who do not/will not share information. Guess the premise is "Knowledge is Power" and in order for me to have more Power, I will share less Knowledge. Goes with the back-biting (in order for me to be Bigger, I must make you Smaller). It's vicious, but I came back because the federal benefits package is the best - a guaranteed pension and 401(k) that offers a match, health insurance I can carry into retirement, etc. I'll stay for the duration, but I'm counting the years until I'm outta here. Wish the top layer would retire, but then I think that the devil I know (those at the top now) may be infinitely preferable to the devil I don't.
I agree with Buzzy, in part. I too have known people who didn't share during my 28+ years of government service. I learned as much as I could, and shared with almost anyone. I got the certifications and, a couple of years ago earned the BS that I began in 1965. At that point I was in a position where the only accounting that I did was a few Excel spreadsheets. I changed offices, hoping to use my extensive experience and background, only to find out that nobody really cared about that. They were more concerned about making the DFAS Director look good, because he was a political appointee. I am trying to find another position, but am not about to demean myself, by kissing someone's backside. I am not a political person, and don't play those games. I won't lie for them. I am eligible to retire later this year, and am seriously considering it. Either before fiscal year end, or the last pay period, January 3, 2009. And the worst part is, because I am CSRS, no Social Security.
Re: The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Fri May 23, 2008 10:14 AM
I have always been free with job knowledge. I figured that if the other guy did it well then MY job would be easier.
However, with NSPS and all this needing to look better than your (what used to be teammate but this system is definitely against teamwork!) in order to get a better raise, will I find it is better to let another wallow and then come to the rescue so that *I* look good?
I don't like that idea. But, I see that happening already with those around here who have been sucked into NSPS already.
The coming depopulation
Thorn in the Side DOD Wed May 7, 2008 11:04 AM
If the government made better use of the people it has, maybe they would be more inclined to stay.
Re: The coming depopulation
Program Analyst HUD Thu May 8, 2008 2:12 PM
Amen! I know I'm not being utilized to my agency's best advantage or to my fullest potential. I've been in this dead end job for 10 years.
whoa there!
analyst usda fs Wed May 7, 2008 11:18 AM
comments like - encourage older workers to retire is on the edge of age discrimenation..... I can see the point, but there has to be a way to make it all work and allow all ages to participate.
How To Care For An Aging Workforce?
Program Analyst HQ DCMA Wed May 7, 2008 11:30 AM
The single biggest deterent to meeting the challenge of an aging workforce is Personnel. Trying to find a Job Announcement, completing the hiring practice, working and getting trained are all huge. The total lack of effective support given by personnel wen you have to rely on them is discouraging to people either inside the government or from outside. In order to get a correct answer to an individual problem you have to guess which office has responsibility over subject issue, then hope the individual you contact in that office and hope that they are having a good day when you ask get half truths and guesses. If you have been burdened with an incorrect answer you have little to no recourse in righting your injury. You are stuck and no one even cares.
Staying longer
Plant Manager DOD Wed May 7, 2008 11:39 AM
While we all know there are many of us retirment eligible, it should be no surprise to see many lingering on the job just because of the financial insecurity due to the policies of this administration.
We've watched our TSP's, IRAs and Roth's take a beating, we have seen prices of everything sky rocket except for the value of our homes which are going the wrong direction. All this has created a certain uneasiness in leaving our jobs. The boomer exodus may not be as fast as expected.
My has always been to work until age 59, I'hope that goal is still possible.
Climate Change...
HR Guy Been Around Wed May 7, 2008 11:55 AM
This issue is the “global warming” of federal employment. There are incredible productivity gains that the government refuses in favor of politically-motivated employment. When the network wire from a computer goes into the wall, it doesn’t matter where the data comes out – next desk, room, building…continent. There are many productivity gains awaiting proper automation and consolidation of administrative functions, from HR to budget to procurement, and that’s just a start. Both management and supervision could also be pruned back. The fact also remains that federal turnover is a fraction of what private enterprise experiences, even if one adds the highest “tsunami” loss estimates. And take a look at longevity, as we live longer, healthier lives that often revolve around professions – a major reason why this tsunami proves akin to a wavelet. Meanwhile, the ice isn’t melting on Minnesota’s lakes…now it’s a “climate change” threat…good regardless of your thermometer readings.
Internal pressures
TSM DHS Wed May 7, 2008 1:06 PM
I believe that in certain incidences internal pressures are created by junior members to a point of accusations that present seniors are incompetent to make way for their own career boost.
Re: Internal pressures
FAA Engineer Wed May 7, 2008 3:23 PM
Amen to that. I see that happening here.
Re: Internal pressures
Analyst DOD Wed May 7, 2008 6:56 PM
Make accusations to whom? The seniors they're trying to oust? I find it hard to believe that this is occurring on the 20-25% scale.
leaders
ron DoD Wed May 7, 2008 3:27 PM
losing folks in leadership positions does not necessarily mean you've lost leaders.....
Re: leaders
Security Specialist DON Thu May 8, 2008 9:33 AM
I couldn't have said it better. You've definitely hit the nail-on-the-head!
retirements
Biologist Forest Service Wed May 7, 2008 6:57 PM
I'm age 53 and plan to retire from the Forest Service the minute I am eligible. The agency has changed in so many ways over the last 5-10 years, and almost without exception, the changes have not been for the better. Trying to hire new people (even temporary hires) is now a nightmare, getting reimbursed for travel is a major hassle, there are endless new process and certification requirements for everything that you do....I could go on and on. My job used to be enjoyable, but it's not anymore. Other than financial security, I can't imagine why anyone would want to continue working here after they are retirement-eligible, under the present set of conditions. I feel bad for the (few) new hires, they are coming into an agency that I don't even know anymore.
The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
Feds Wife Dept. of Defense Thu May 8, 2008 7:59 AM
The real problem isn't so much that federal employees are retiring because they want to. Many of the older men are being forced out of work to make way for *women*, and these women are nowhere near as qualified as the men they replace.
Oh, and employment with the federal government *does* resemble a Dilbert cartoon, again, due to the number of females in supervisory positions who have no idea how to supervise. (*Birthday parties* at staff meetings?!?! Give me a break!)
Oh, and by the way: The number of grammatical mistakes I caught just in this one article (see subject line) would have been funny, if it weren't the norm for federal communications. Federal employment is in a sad state, and not likely to recover from Al Bore's Reinventing Government initiative. (That wasn't a typo.)
Re: The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
Worker DoD Thu May 8, 2008 9:33 AM
Wife, I'm sure you've heard of the phrase, "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Enough said.
Re: The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
lawdog OHA Thu May 8, 2008 9:34 AM
Are you "for real" or just a plant to increase dialog? (And what is the diference between a *woman* and a woman?) I'd like to comment further on what you have said, but can't come up with enough one syllable words for your little bitty brain to understand. Happy Birthday.
Re: The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
DoD Engineer Navy Thu May 8, 2008 4:29 PM
I pity you for accepting the feeble lies of a husband who blames all his lack of sucess on the women in his office.
Re: The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
Reformed Conservative DFAS Fri May 9, 2008 9:15 AM
What's wrong with the occasional birthday party at a staff meeting? Most meetings seem to be unnecessary anyway, especially with the advent of e-mail.
Re: The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
Peon Federal Agency Tue May 20, 2008 10:59 AM
As a female fed who has had a couple of female supervisors, the original post if right on! The women I've worked for have no idea how to manage and got their jobs based on gender, certainly not on ability! Beyond tired of warm, fuzzy "team-building" activities. I'm here to work, not listen to your family problems. Just happy I have a door to close and no longer live on the Dilbert Cubicle Farm!
Federal Hiring Process
20 Year Federal Employee Cynical enough to not trust enough to respond Thu May 8, 2008 10:40 AM
OPM can't seem to get a grip on the hiring process. Most agencies, including the DoD subsets, still use another (usually contracted) step in the process. I advise young people to avoid federal service at all cost and to go to corporate jobs where the HR department can at least spell the titles of the jobs they announce. All it takes is about ten minutes on usajobs.gov to realize that the bus is going down the road without a driver.
Older Fed Employees don't have a CHANCE!
GSS NAVICP Thu May 8, 2008 10:45 AM
As a fed. employee of 30 years with 17 year to go and turning 50 in June; I find that some of the important issues of the tsunami isn't being addressed. There are many older employees that have transferred to FERS (I for one) because I wanted a luxury retirement, unlike what I would have had under the CSRS. That being said, there are many in my area jumping ship because they are constantly being passed over for promotion and watching the Directors sons, daughters, son-in-law, aunt, uncle or whoever they can think of coming in OFF THE STREET with a higher position than us oldies that have had to work up the chain. Why isn't that being addressed how much age discrimination is involved in the Fed. Gov. and WHY so many of us are JUMPIN SHIP. We have the knowledge, and have to take time out of our day to help KIDS? I do not think so! It would be interesting to have a poll on how many older Feds are leaving because they have had one too many age discrimination actions against them.
Re: Older Fed Employees don't have a CHANCE!
Feds Wife Dept. of Defense Thu May 8, 2008 6:26 PM
This is exactly the point I tried to make in my own post, which elicited such "erudite" responses. Actually, though, I think CSRS was much fairer in the way potential workers were chosen and then had to work their way into positions of responsibility. At least, that was my experience at the US Customs Service, may it rest in peace.
(No, I am not a plant. And the difference between a *woman* and a woman is that the former thinks she knows it all, and the latter -- is me. ;-) )
Re: Older Fed Employees don't have a CHANCE!
Supervisory Supply Systems Analyst DLIS Fri May 9, 2008 9:55 AM
As an employee of the Federal Government for over 38 years, and eligible for retirement, I have noticed the increase of employment/promotions of family members or very close friends. We have seen directors promoting the daughter of another director, and then a reciprocal promotion for the son of the first director. We have seen persons with college degrees promoted over personnel with extensive experience only because they have their degree. The experienced employee was gaining and using experience (as well as raising families), instead of going to school. Now they are all concerned about a "brain drain". What is even worse, is that when we offer the benefit of our experience, we are told that "there is a new day dawning, and the OLD ways just won't work." The really sad part then is that if the concept that the inexperienced person put forth fails, then they try to assign blame to the experienced person...because they didn't adequately inform management of the pitfalls.
Re: Older Fed Employees don't have a CHANCE!
Federal Soon to be Retiree. DOL Mon Jun 2, 2008 9:16 AM
I am totally appalled that there are still women who believe this BS...that's probably why she is just a "Wife" and will never be anything more.
The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
GSA employee GSA Fri May 9, 2008 1:23 PM
I'm taking my 30+ years of experience, knowledge and what all with me when I go out the door. It is disappointing and irritating to have worked so hard to gain all the experience and the "interns" are brought in so we can "train" people with Masters degrees. They don't want to learn, have the "I already know everything" mentality and believe their way is better. All it does is get them and the agency in trouble. Promote the people with the experience and knowledge of agency practices and procedures. Let the "kids" learn the old way....and spend more than 6 months in any grade level before they hit a GS-13.
Non-federal employment for me was a long time ago...but I think I can compete just fine.
Retirement
Line Foreman Dept. Of Energy Mon May 19, 2008 7:51 AM
Why can't the federal govt. recruit the way other agencies do. Military has been in the high schools for years. Why can't the feds do the same. Give an incentive for new hires as well as people ready to retire.
Re: Retirement
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Tue May 20, 2008 11:17 AM
If you recruit in the high schools then you need to offer a legitimate career path that does NOT require a college degree. The military has done it for years. (Now they are screwing up by requiring degrees for NCO's.) However, I am considered well able to do the next level job by all in my office and most in my code. That won't happen, however, because I don't have that precious degree and for reasons that were good then, and hindsight doesn't see how I could have done differently, I don't have one. Therefore, we have some college educated dingbats taking up time, money, and energy...leaving just as they have milked the system for all they could. (hmm, maybe not so dumb after all?)
Aging workforce
management assistant IRS Tue May 20, 2008 7:13 AM
Many of the older employees that left the service have had to pick up what ever they could find to supplement their salary. When the government choose to consider the Social Security eligable people who worked for the Government it cut their income upon retirement.
Many were a low grade employee and lost their entitlement to any or most of their Soc Sec income.
This was one of the greatest injustices done to the early government employees. There were many very unhappy employees. This was forced on the servents who had served for many years and given no vote in the change. Even if they went form CSRS to FERS system they were penalized for working somewhere else before they come to work for the government.
Now they have the age and years to retire and everything continues to go up and they cannot live.
Even the 300.00-500.00 per month form social security would help (hopefully) to keep them from the proverty lever.
Re: Aging workforce
Prof Small College Tue May 20, 2008 9:25 AM
Educate me; is it your position that an individual that paid into the social security for ten years should receive the same benefits as a person that paid for full retirement (SS) for 30+ years.
Do you propose that a person that worked under the CSRS, and did not pay social security for the CSRS term of employment receive social security payments for CSRS service when they did not contribute?
If this is your position; is it not fair for me to receive CSRS payments? I have not contributed to CSRS.
I think that Prof may not have understood the entire scenario. Here is my situation. Maybe it will be clearer.
I went to work after high school graduation in SS covered jobs. When I joined the Army in 1967, I also paid SS. After the Army, I again worked public sector jobs, paying SS. I began my career with DoD in August 1982, under CSRS. I have also worked second jobs, under SS DURING my government career. I was a single parent during most of my career, and unable to save very much. In order to receive a full CSRS pension, I paid deposits for both Army and DoDDS jobs.
According to my recent Social Security Statement, I am entitled to a SS pension of $447 at age 62. I would like to receive what I am entitled to receive, no more, no less. Because of the current law, the Windfall Elimination Provision, my SS will be reduced or eliminated because I will be receiving a CSRS pension. That does not apply to public sector retirees, like GM, who get both.
Do you call that FAIR?
5 years and counting!
IT Specialist DFAS Thu May 22, 2008 4:37 PM
I would love to stay, however, at a lower grade - I've accomplished my goals in 26 years and would like to take a downgrade - however, have found it impossible to move from a GS-12 to a clerical position around a GS 7-9; so the only option is to pray for a VERA or keep counting - one thing for sure - this too shall pass! I have other skills I'd like to use and right now I'm just a bump on a log - a hopin' and a wishin'~
SSA Retired employees working part time
Contact Representative (SR) Social Security Administration Sun Jun 1, 2008 7:29 PM
All Retired Federal Govt. employees should have a choice if they want to work part time after retirement. The Social Security Administration would save millions of dollars if they would rehire all SSA retired employees to answer the toll free number and process social security cards. All SSA retired employees would need very little training if any at all with their expertise and 30 plus years.
Retirement
Sr. Veteran Claims Examiner Department of Veterans Affairs Wed Jun 4, 2008 1:51 PM
When I retired in 2004, management couldn't wait to get us out the door. Then they realized that it was us that had all the experience and was processing all the work. The college graduates that they hired at the top had all the degrees but no idea about how the work was processed. By the time Central Office realized this, most of the "baby boomers" had retired or were going to retire and nothing could make them change their mind. The agency needs to train their employees better. I was in training a year to be a claims examiner, now they want to train you in 30-60 days. That's why the backlog is so high and no one is suffering but the veterans. When we tried to tell management this, they didn't want to listen. We were too old and didn't know what we were talking about. Sometimes the old way is still the best.
Aging population of federal workers
Medical Records Technician Department of Veterans Affairs Tue Jul 8, 2008 5:43 PM
The younger generation is coming in behind the old and they have no idea what is going on inside the federal government.
Our in coming new veterans need more experienced federal workers helping with the new recruits to help our veterans get through this time in their lives. So don't be in a hurry to get rid of us so fast. We still have a lot left to offer for our younger counterparts.
attracting mid-career people to government
Senior Education Specialist U.S. Department of Education Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:40 AM
When people are hired at colleges and universities, their sick and annual leave are front-loaded. Mid-career hires have many demands on their time, children or aging parents. Earning just four hours of sick land annual leave each pay period in the early years of service, is an extreme disadvantage for new government employees. I know people who have come to government and quickly left when they ran into leave problems and had to take leave-without-pay. This looks like an easy fix. This is a good lesson learned from the private sector.
Retire, not likely
Forest Service
Wed May 7, 2008 9:35 AM
I'm 57 years old and working as a Term employee for the Forest Service. I plan on working at least 10 more years, more if I stay healthy. I would love to get a permanent position with the government. But try as I might, it just isn't happening.
Retiring Government Employees
Retired FAA
Wed May 7, 2008 9:40 AM
This should not be a surprise to anyone. The FAA has known (since 1981) that this problem would arise about this time - and yet, they have done very little to keep the pipeline flowing. As an ex-FAA air traffic controller, this issue has come up time and time again. The powers that be just looked the other way. Now we, the public, will pay the price!
It will be good to get fresh blood at the top
FAA
Wed May 7, 2008 9:40 AM
As a 44 year old baby boomer, I have little in common with the stereotypical boomer. It will do the FAA a world of good to get rid of the "old guys" at the top. They have been a huge detriment to our agency for the last 10 years. If you don't believe it, check the recent news headlines. An influx of new blood in the leadership levels will be fantastic. Bring it on!
contextless statistics
navair
Wed May 7, 2008 9:41 AM
We are very often given statistics with no context with which to evaluate the numbers given. Are thes worst-case numbers (as are those often published for SSA?). Are they assuming that everyone eligible will retire at the earliest opportunity? Are they using actual historical metrics (horrors! the M word!)? Have they POSSIBLY tweaked any historical trends with data derived from polls of people in the 50-65 age group? We just don't know. I am less than impressed when I am presented with such naked numbers and am skeptical of them at best.
Aging Work Force
USDA - Rural Development
Wed May 7, 2008 9:42 AM
We need to encourage older workers to retire now so we can replace them now with younger workers. Also, who was it that ever retired that we could not do without? Some older workers are valuable, but not all. Some were promoted just because they were older and outlasted the competition.
Re: Aging Work Force
USAF
Wed May 7, 2008 10:03 AM
Re: Aging Work Force
IRS
Wed May 7, 2008 10:19 AM
Re: Aging Work Force
A Big One
Wed May 7, 2008 12:58 PM
Actually, I'm counting the days until I can retire and will be out of here at that very moment. Some people don't know when to retire and have allowed their job to be their life. How sad. I know, others need to continue working for economic reasons; more power to them.
Re: Aging Work Force
DoD
Mon May 12, 2008 11:21 AM
Not I
DOT
Wed May 7, 2008 9:43 AM
As long as I remain healthy and can contribute to the effectiveness of the organization I will show up for work every day, BUT I am eligible to retire (62) in 4y 10m 23d 4h 42m as of this post...............
Re: Not I
DFAS
Wed May 7, 2008 11:32 AM
I must not be an "older worker" since I don't remember any of the events listed in the article. I do have vague childish memories of my mother being riveted to the TV when the black horses were on (the President Kennedy funeral). I am not sure where that puts me on the scale of older and younger workers.
Incentives Needed
DOD
Wed May 7, 2008 9:56 AM
There needs to financial incentives such as extra earned/accumulated annual leave, a bigger TSP match, & a higher annuity payment for those feds who work past their MRA (minimum retirement age), which is 56 or 57 for many workers. Give them good reasons to stay on an extra 5 or 10 years!!
Re: Incentives Needed
DOD
Wed May 7, 2008 6:52 PM
Support for Mid-career Federal Hires
SSA
Wed May 7, 2008 9:57 AM
While I strongly believe that the federal government needs to bring in new employees from the private sector, I am not sure how high the retention rate will be. As a new hire with half of my career in the private sector, I am encountering horrific culture shock, and have no support group available. My peers and supervisory staff have had little or no private sector experience. This can lead to isolation, disappointment, and the sad realization that the national debt left to my children has no viable solution. I have come to question whether penetrating the convoluted federal hiring process was really worth it.
Re: Support for Mid-career Federal Hires
DFAS
Wed May 7, 2008 1:41 PM
Re: Support for Mid-career Federal Hires
CMS
Fri May 16, 2008 9:40 AM
Retention
DoD
Wed May 7, 2008 9:57 AM
I am 53 years old with 30 years federal service. I have seen nothing in my government service to indicate there is any incentive for me to stay. I have been stating this for about 4 years now to various open forums. What incentives are there for someone like me to continue working for the federal government? With NSPS it is more likely that people like me will leave.
Retiring Govt Workforce
SSA
Wed May 7, 2008 10:36 AM
Dear FAA comn spec -
44 years old is not considered a baby-boomer. Maybe that is why you have little in common with those you describe as the "stereotypical boomer".
Re: Retiring Govt Workforce
DCMA
Wed May 7, 2008 3:22 PM
The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
DON
Wed May 7, 2008 10:59 AM
I say "let them go!" Many retirement eligibles are just taking up space. They shove it in your face that they can go anytime whenever they're having a bad day or some new policy comes along that they don't like or agree with. They constantly refer to how things used to be or back in their day, etc.. Well, its a new day, time for a change and new ideas. Furthermore, they're holding a spot and preventing others that are just as capable from moving up. Besides that, most won't share their knowledge anyway, so "let them go!"
Re: The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
DA
Wed May 7, 2008 4:44 PM
Re: The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
DON
Thu May 8, 2008 9:22 AM
Re: The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
VHA
Thu May 8, 2008 4:32 PM
Ever hear of "age discrimination?" Where I work we share all information and knowledge with new employees hoping they stay so our workload decreases. Do they stay? No! As soon as they hit a GS-12 in a few years they fly out of here. So us "old folks" keep carrying all the heavy contracts and train more new people. It happens over and over again. All I see is value is placed on recruiting, no retention, and no value is placed on those with knowledge. We are nothing but work horses. Maybe that's why the knowledgable folks you work with don't share any more. It's a vicious cycle...
Re: The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
Federal Agency
Tue May 20, 2008 10:50 AM
Re: The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
DFAS
Thu May 22, 2008 9:05 PM
Re: The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
DOD
Fri May 23, 2008 10:14 AM
However, with NSPS and all this needing to look better than your (what used to be teammate but this system is definitely against teamwork!) in order to get a better raise, will I find it is better to let another wallow and then come to the rescue so that *I* look good?
I don't like that idea. But, I see that happening already with those around here who have been sucked into NSPS already.
The coming depopulation
DOD
Wed May 7, 2008 11:04 AM
If the government made better use of the people it has, maybe they would be more inclined to stay.
Re: The coming depopulation
HUD
Thu May 8, 2008 2:12 PM
whoa there!
usda fs
Wed May 7, 2008 11:18 AM
comments like - encourage older workers to retire is on the edge of age discrimenation..... I can see the point, but there has to be a way to make it all work and allow all ages to participate.
How To Care For An Aging Workforce?
HQ DCMA
Wed May 7, 2008 11:30 AM
The single biggest deterent to meeting the challenge of an aging workforce is Personnel. Trying to find a Job Announcement, completing the hiring practice, working and getting trained are all huge. The total lack of effective support given by personnel wen you have to rely on them is discouraging to people either inside the government or from outside. In order to get a correct answer to an individual problem you have to guess which office has responsibility over subject issue, then hope the individual you contact in that office and hope that they are having a good day when you ask get half truths and guesses. If you have been burdened with an incorrect answer you have little to no recourse in righting your injury. You are stuck and no one even cares.
Staying longer
DOD
Wed May 7, 2008 11:39 AM
While we all know there are many of us retirment eligible, it should be no surprise to see many lingering on the job just because of the financial insecurity due to the policies of this administration.
We've watched our TSP's, IRAs and Roth's take a beating, we have seen prices of everything sky rocket except for the value of our homes which are going the wrong direction. All this has created a certain uneasiness in leaving our jobs. The boomer exodus may not be as fast as expected.
My has always been to work until age 59, I'hope that goal is still possible.
Climate Change...
Been Around
Wed May 7, 2008 11:55 AM
This issue is the “global warming” of federal employment. There are incredible productivity gains that the government refuses in favor of politically-motivated employment. When the network wire from a computer goes into the wall, it doesn’t matter where the data comes out – next desk, room, building…continent. There are many productivity gains awaiting proper automation and consolidation of administrative functions, from HR to budget to procurement, and that’s just a start. Both management and supervision could also be pruned back. The fact also remains that federal turnover is a fraction of what private enterprise experiences, even if one adds the highest “tsunami” loss estimates. And take a look at longevity, as we live longer, healthier lives that often revolve around professions – a major reason why this tsunami proves akin to a wavelet. Meanwhile, the ice isn’t melting on Minnesota’s lakes…now it’s a “climate change” threat…good regardless of your thermometer readings.
Internal pressures
DHS
Wed May 7, 2008 1:06 PM
I believe that in certain incidences internal pressures are created by junior members to a point of accusations that present seniors are incompetent to make way for their own career boost.
Re: Internal pressures
Engineer
Wed May 7, 2008 3:23 PM
Re: Internal pressures
DOD
Wed May 7, 2008 6:56 PM
leaders
DoD
Wed May 7, 2008 3:27 PM
losing folks in leadership positions does not necessarily mean you've lost leaders.....
Re: leaders
DON
Thu May 8, 2008 9:33 AM
retirements
Forest Service
Wed May 7, 2008 6:57 PM
I'm age 53 and plan to retire from the Forest Service the minute I am eligible. The agency has changed in so many ways over the last 5-10 years, and almost without exception, the changes have not been for the better. Trying to hire new people (even temporary hires) is now a nightmare, getting reimbursed for travel is a major hassle, there are endless new process and certification requirements for everything that you do....I could go on and on. My job used to be enjoyable, but it's not anymore. Other than financial security, I can't imagine why anyone would want to continue working here after they are retirement-eligible, under the present set of conditions. I feel bad for the (few) new hires, they are coming into an agency that I don't even know anymore.
The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
Dept. of Defense
Thu May 8, 2008 7:59 AM
The real problem isn't so much that federal employees are retiring because they want to. Many of the older men are being forced out of work to make way for *women*, and these women are nowhere near as qualified as the men they replace.
Oh, and employment with the federal government *does* resemble a Dilbert cartoon, again, due to the number of females in supervisory positions who have no idea how to supervise. (*Birthday parties* at staff meetings?!?! Give me a break!)
Oh, and by the way: The number of grammatical mistakes I caught just in this one article (see subject line) would have been funny, if it weren't the norm for federal communications. Federal employment is in a sad state, and not likely to recover from Al Bore's Reinventing Government initiative. (That wasn't a typo.)
Re: The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
DoD
Thu May 8, 2008 9:33 AM
Re: The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
OHA
Thu May 8, 2008 9:34 AM
Re: The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
Navy
Thu May 8, 2008 4:29 PM
Re: The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
DFAS
Fri May 9, 2008 9:15 AM
Re: The Aging and Retiring Federal Work Force
Federal Agency
Tue May 20, 2008 10:59 AM
Federal Hiring Process
Cynical enough to not trust enough to respond
Thu May 8, 2008 10:40 AM
OPM can't seem to get a grip on the hiring process. Most agencies, including the DoD subsets, still use another (usually contracted) step in the process. I advise young people to avoid federal service at all cost and to go to corporate jobs where the HR department can at least spell the titles of the jobs they announce. All it takes is about ten minutes on usajobs.gov to realize that the bus is going down the road without a driver.
Older Fed Employees don't have a CHANCE!
NAVICP
Thu May 8, 2008 10:45 AM
As a fed. employee of 30 years with 17 year to go and turning 50 in June; I find that some of the important issues of the tsunami isn't being addressed. There are many older employees that have transferred to FERS (I for one) because I wanted a luxury retirement, unlike what I would have had under the CSRS. That being said, there are many in my area jumping ship because they are constantly being passed over for promotion and watching the Directors sons, daughters, son-in-law, aunt, uncle or whoever they can think of coming in OFF THE STREET with a higher position than us oldies that have had to work up the chain. Why isn't that being addressed how much age discrimination is involved in the Fed. Gov. and WHY so many of us are JUMPIN SHIP. We have the knowledge, and have to take time out of our day to help KIDS? I do not think so! It would be interesting to have a poll on how many older Feds are leaving because they have had one too many age discrimination actions against them.
Re: Older Fed Employees don't have a CHANCE!
Dept. of Defense
Thu May 8, 2008 6:26 PM
(No, I am not a plant. And the difference between a *woman* and a woman is that the former thinks she knows it all, and the latter -- is me. ;-) )
Re: Older Fed Employees don't have a CHANCE!
DLIS
Fri May 9, 2008 9:55 AM
Re: Older Fed Employees don't have a CHANCE!
DOL
Mon Jun 2, 2008 9:16 AM
The Aging--and Retiring--Federal Workforce
GSA
Fri May 9, 2008 1:23 PM
I'm taking my 30+ years of experience, knowledge and what all with me when I go out the door. It is disappointing and irritating to have worked so hard to gain all the experience and the "interns" are brought in so we can "train" people with Masters degrees. They don't want to learn, have the "I already know everything" mentality and believe their way is better. All it does is get them and the agency in trouble. Promote the people with the experience and knowledge of agency practices and procedures. Let the "kids" learn the old way....and spend more than 6 months in any grade level before they hit a GS-13.
Non-federal employment for me was a long time ago...but I think I can compete just fine.
Retirement
Dept. Of Energy
Mon May 19, 2008 7:51 AM
Why can't the federal govt. recruit the way other agencies do. Military has been in the high schools for years. Why can't the feds do the same. Give an incentive for new hires as well as people ready to retire.
Re: Retirement
DOD
Tue May 20, 2008 11:17 AM
Aging workforce
IRS
Tue May 20, 2008 7:13 AM
Many of the older employees that left the service have had to pick up what ever they could find to supplement their salary. When the government choose to consider the Social Security eligable people who worked for the Government it cut their income upon retirement.
Many were a low grade employee and lost their entitlement to any or most of their Soc Sec income.
This was one of the greatest injustices done to the early government employees. There were many very unhappy employees. This was forced on the servents who had served for many years and given no vote in the change. Even if they went form CSRS to FERS system they were penalized for working somewhere else before they come to work for the government.
Now they have the age and years to retire and everything continues to go up and they cannot live.
Even the 300.00-500.00 per month form social security would help (hopefully) to keep them from the proverty lever.
Re: Aging workforce
Small College
Tue May 20, 2008 9:25 AM
Do you propose that a person that worked under the CSRS, and did not pay social security for the CSRS term of employment receive social security payments for CSRS service when they did not contribute?
If this is your position; is it not fair for me to receive CSRS payments? I have not contributed to CSRS.
Re: Aging workforce
DFAS
Wed May 28, 2008 2:23 PM
I went to work after high school graduation in SS covered jobs. When I joined the Army in 1967, I also paid SS. After the Army, I again worked public sector jobs, paying SS. I began my career with DoD in August 1982, under CSRS. I have also worked second jobs, under SS DURING my government career. I was a single parent during most of my career, and unable to save very much. In order to receive a full CSRS pension, I paid deposits for both Army and DoDDS jobs.
According to my recent Social Security Statement, I am entitled to a SS pension of $447 at age 62. I would like to receive what I am entitled to receive, no more, no less. Because of the current law, the Windfall Elimination Provision, my SS will be reduced or eliminated because I will be receiving a CSRS pension. That does not apply to public sector retirees, like GM, who get both.
Do you call that FAIR?
5 years and counting!
DFAS
Thu May 22, 2008 4:37 PM
I would love to stay, however, at a lower grade - I've accomplished my goals in 26 years and would like to take a downgrade - however, have found it impossible to move from a GS-12 to a clerical position around a GS 7-9; so the only option is to pray for a VERA or keep counting - one thing for sure - this too shall pass! I have other skills I'd like to use and right now I'm just a bump on a log - a hopin' and a wishin'~
SSA Retired employees working part time
Social Security Administration
Sun Jun 1, 2008 7:29 PM
All Retired Federal Govt. employees should have a choice if they want to work part time after retirement. The Social Security Administration would save millions of dollars if they would rehire all SSA retired employees to answer the toll free number and process social security cards. All SSA retired employees would need very little training if any at all with their expertise and 30 plus years.
Retirement
Department of Veterans Affairs
Wed Jun 4, 2008 1:51 PM
When I retired in 2004, management couldn't wait to get us out the door. Then they realized that it was us that had all the experience and was processing all the work. The college graduates that they hired at the top had all the degrees but no idea about how the work was processed. By the time Central Office realized this, most of the "baby boomers" had retired or were going to retire and nothing could make them change their mind. The agency needs to train their employees better. I was in training a year to be a claims examiner, now they want to train you in 30-60 days. That's why the backlog is so high and no one is suffering but the veterans. When we tried to tell management this, they didn't want to listen. We were too old and didn't know what we were talking about. Sometimes the old way is still the best.
Aging population of federal workers
Department of Veterans Affairs
Tue Jul 8, 2008 5:43 PM
The younger generation is coming in behind the old and they have no idea what is going on inside the federal government.
Our in coming new veterans need more experienced federal workers helping with the new recruits to help our veterans get through this time in their lives. So don't be in a hurry to get rid of us so fast. We still have a lot left to offer for our younger counterparts.
attracting mid-career people to government
U.S. Department of Education
Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:40 AM
When people are hired at colleges and universities, their sick and annual leave are front-loaded. Mid-career hires have many demands on their time, children or aging parents. Earning just four hours of sick land annual leave each pay period in the early years of service, is an extreme disadvantage for new government employees. I know people who have come to government and quickly left when they ran into leave problems and had to take leave-without-pay. This looks like an easy fix. This is a good lesson learned from the private sector.