Ralph: Agreed that Feds need to look closely before they leap out of the TSP and into a privately-run IRA company. One need look no further than your article for some of those trying companies to pry away our money... in the ads for fedsmith !
Seeking Access to the TSP's Billions
Analyst DOD Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:48 AM
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone else would just keep their hands out of our pockets...
TSP
Contracting Officer epa Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:51 AM
I'm 44 and expect to work until 62 (although, i can retire at 56 w/32 years of service). It is my plan to do a one time in-service withdrawl from TSP at 59.5 and roll the $$$ into a low cost index fund IRA (Vanguard perhaps).
It's not that TSP isn't well run...it is. what scares me is other interests getting their meat hooks into TSP and ruining a good thing.
I just need to hang in there for another 15 years!
too many zero's
mech engr us navy Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:00 AM
You have too many zero's in that TSP pile, and we all know how the greed builds with the wall street crowd. Remember folks, you will pay them in the end for a little gain. nuff said.
Re: too many zero's
editor FedSmith.com Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:48 AM
The zeros are correct. The Thrift Savings Plan currently has assets of approximately $225.7 billion.
Re: too many zero's
Retired DoD Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:09 PM
"a save distance"? Maybe you should take your own advice and remain a safe distance from the vat.
Re: too many zero's
typist vha Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:33 AM
It doesn't matter the too many zero's. What matters is the radar eyes from the corporate crooks and legislators.
Whether it's tsp or 401k.
Give Me Switzerland
Fed Peasant DOD Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:36 AM
As I ponder retirement, I am 50/50 about keeping my money in the TSP, into retirement. A few months back, I leaned that way. Then, they brought in the overly restrictive 2 trades a month policy. Now we see policitians trying to meddle & corrupt our TSP. In the private sector, there has been an endles blur, of countless financial scandals & company officers going to jail, or fleeing out of the country. There has been many, many, bankruptsies & most could have been unnecessary. Do I feel safe with them managing my money? Absolutely not!! I wish I could transfer my assets, out the country to an "old school" Swiss banker. TSP should begin that option.
Bertrand Russell from The Will To Doubt
engineer af Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:54 AM
Political opinions are hardly ever based upon evidence, except in the case of civil servants, who are forbidden to give utterance to them. Freudians have accustomed us to "rationalizing," i.e. the process of inventing what seem to ourselves rational grounds for a decision or opinion that is in fact quite irrational. But there is, especially in English-speaking countries, a converse process which may be called "irrationalizing." A shrewd man will sum up, more or less subconsciously, the pros and cons of a question from a selfish point of view. Having come to a sound egoistic decision by the help of the unconscious, a man proceeds to invent, or adopt from others, a set of high-sounding phrases showing how he is pursuing the public good at immense personal sacrifice. Anybody who believes that these phrases give his real reasons must suppose him quite incapable of judging evidence, since the supposed public good is not going to result from his action.
Re: Bertrand Russell from The Will To Doubt
Observer DOD Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:35 PM
I don't know what kool-aid you're drinking. I'll make sure that I keep a save distance, away from that vat!!
Stay In TSP - NO WAY!!!
Engineer DOD Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:43 PM
As soon as I am able, all my money will get out of the TSP. There is no way I am going to trust the same organization that bankrupted Social Security to not do the same with the money in TSP. Once money is outside of the TSP, there are so many more options on how to invest. To paint TIAA-CREF and Fidelity (rwo well respected financial institutions) and as hoodlums is a bit like saying don't drink water becasue some people have been known to drown in it.
POST REPLY
Engineering Data Manager DOD Tinker AFB Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:51 PM
After reading many articles about the TSP Funds, all I can gather is that you can't trust anyone and make sure to read and understand all the fine print. "CAVEAT EMPTOR "applies to selling as well as buying.
Roll Over Other Mutual Funds Into TSP
Retired USDA Forest Service Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:07 PM
As a retired Forest Service Employee, I would like to roll over my other IRA Mutual Funds into the TSP. I would much rather do that than visa-versa. Can we make sure that the Congress will not sell us out!!!
If "Pro" is the opposite of "Con", what is the opposite of "Progress"??? It's something to think about...
Seeking Access to the TSP's Billions
Civil Engineer DOD Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:02 AM
Unless the TSP Board educate it's members of these attempts to take advantage of us, then Fed employees will continue to be fodder for the wolves. The Fed did such a good job on doing what's best for the Fed Employee on the last go around with the IFT limitation, we should expect them to continue their good work on protecting our interests. ( INSERT SARCASM EMOTICON HERE).
Signed,
One who is not blind to the TSP's commitment to barclays.
leave my money alone
hr usda Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:31 AM
No one has any right to my money which I saved and worked hard for. Too many hands want in the pot and this will be another spoiled stew. Leave my money alone it is mine.
Throwing Sheep to Wolves, Baa-baa
Thorn in the Side DOD Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:51 AM
Start writing, calling, telefaxing and emailing your senators and Representatives to put the kibosh on this, FAST. If they don't hear a protest, they'll think it's all right.
I intend to write or email every senator and Representative in the country, not just my own, if possible. We should keep track of who votes in favor of this invitation to swindle and work to defeat those peole the next time they run, anywhere, for anything.
What's interesting about this is back in 1986 when they were encouraging CSRS employees to switch to FERS, we (on my forest) were told that CSRS employees would never be given the opportunity to contribute to TSP. The TSP was a portion of the 3 part retirement system for FERS employees (a reduced annuity, SS, and TSP). Then, low and behold, CSRS employees were given the opportunity to contribute to TSP and since they have been doing so, the fund has grown considerably. If I had known that CSRS folks would be given the opportunity to contribute, I would have stayed under CSRS (a much bigger annuity). I also found out that my FERS supplement is subject to the SS rules for folks under 65 (spousal earnings are considered) and this is also a huge shock to my system. My FERS supplement will be subject to a huge reduction because of my spouce. I believe old CSRS employees were given a bunch of bad information years ago when I switched.
Re: Thrift Savings Plan
Thorn in the Side DOD Fri Aug 1, 2008 12:05 PM
Resource Specialist - You could get a divorce before retiring. You don't have to break up, just get a legal divorce. You wouldn't be the first people to do so for that reason. It sounds drastic, but if the financial situation is serious enough, it's warranted.
Ignorance Costly for TSPers
engineer Air Force Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:29 PM
After the IFT fiasco earlier this year that limited everyone to two moves per month, it became obvious 99% of the TSPers are tragically ignorant of the financial, equity and commodity markets, exceeded only by their unwillingness to learn, exceeded only by the TSP management unwillingness to help them learn. I have no intention of staying in TPS. What makes TSP a great investment vehicle is the matching funds and the tax deferred growth. After that, it fails to keep up with many of the mutual fund groups like those advertising.
Observe how no one has cited the rate of return of either advertisers versus the funds of the TSP. The issue is not the fee, it is the annual return on the principle. Better returns require better fees!! You get what you pay for!! AARRggghhhh!!!
I agree with the previous sarcasm about Barclay's. Wouldn't be surprised to find fractional reserve banking and brokerage behind the green curtain.
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
Programmer TSO Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:23 PM
"it fails to keep up with many of the mutual fund groups like those advertising" This is a misleading statement, it infers that the TSPs rate of return is substandard compared with the general mutual fund community. It's a well known fact that over 3/4ths of mutual funds have worse returns over the long term than the major indexes. The TSP follows those indexes, therefore has better returns over the long term than most mutual funds.
Also, your statement regarding the TSP not willing to educate it's participants on commodities is not relevant since the TSP isn't designed to deal in commodities. It makes no sense for the TSP to educate it's participants in a market it doesn't invest in, that would be a waste of money.
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
engineer Air Force Fri Aug 1, 2008 11:21 AM
The content of your reply makes my point.
Focusing on secondary or invalid issues instead of the important aspects. Misdirection for purposes of manipulation resulting in flock following of superior elite thinking.
Many is not general... most mutual funds do not outperform the indexes, many of them do, including many of the funds in the advertisers portfolios. the whole issue of fees is a red herring compared to performance. Would you pay Warren Buffet a higher fee to manage your account?
As for the "insight" on commodities.. ARRRGgghhh!!! They don't help on what they do offer, unlike the advertisers.
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
Programmer TSO Fri Aug 1, 2008 5:34 PM
engineer, before dismissing these issues as "secondary" or "invalid", remember that you're the one who brought them up in the first place. I will say that you use pretty phrases such as "flock following" and "superior elite thinking", you're to be applauded for that.
As far as commodities go, just because it's your opinion that TSP doesn't do a good job of educating it's participants on what they do invest in doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense and is a waste of money for them to try to educate participants on what they don't invest in. It's still a waste of money. The reason is obvious.
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
Analyst DoD Sat Aug 2, 2008 12:33 PM
Returns for the last five years(including 08 ytd with the TSP funds listed):
C fund - 9.37
all mutual funds Large Value - 7.35
all mutual funds Large Blend - 7.08
all mutual funds Large Growth - 8.16
S fund - 14.8
all mutual funds Small Value - 9.59
all mutual funds Small Blend - 10.08
all mutual funds Small Growth - 8.16
I fund - 16.82
all mutual funds International small/mid - 15.96
all mutual funds International Large Value - 14.08
all mutual funds International Large Blend - 14.31
all mutual funds International Large Growth - 14.28
Sources - morningstar.com and tsp.gov
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
engineer Air Force Mon Aug 4, 2008 3:46 PM
I appreciate the lively interchange, but remain unconvinced.
One more time; many is not "most" neither is it "all".
fidelity fund data from today:
Does anyone doubt there are 'many' more, but not 'most' and not 'all' that are doing better than TSP index funds?
Again, the fee is secondary to the performance of the investment. And the fee for TSP being a comparison theme in a statement by a senator is bogus.
The mutual funds that were advertising to TSP holders do a better job of educating their investors than the TSP. We are neither helped nor encouraged to actively improve our investment returns.
I wish you all good returns, but there are much better returns outside the TSP.
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
engineer Air Force Tue Aug 5, 2008 8:00 AM
OOPS! I went back re-read my initial post. I did use the phrase "many mutual fund groups" and I guess that might account for the reactions. I'll take the blame; "my bad" as my kid says.
I remain convinced that TIAA-CREF and Fidelity are both better investment situations from which to manage retirement funds than TSP. However, there are even better situations.
I am increasingly convinced that no amount of pleading, arguing, and discussing will help some people get off their couch and learn how to maximize their investment opportunities. Maybe we ought to recognize TSP as the couch potato's solution to retirement management.
Ignorance is bliss, you get what you work for.....
TSP Rollover
Attorney Army Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:58 PM
I look forward to rolling my TSP into an IRA, where the investment options are not locked into some myopic 5 funds. An IRA can be in ANY public security, or real estate, or a local small business, or even loans to friends and some relatives. Your TSP money in a decent rental home will provide a bigger annuity than any government option, AND an appreciating asset. Wake up folks. I continue to urge change to the TSP statute to allow roll out to an IRA of the employees vested TSP amounts during service, say even once per year. The statute change would be a few simple wording changes to 5 USC 8433.
Personal Email: Fred.Greek@yahoo.com
Rollover? Yes!
Meteorologist NOAA Fri Aug 1, 2008 6:13 AM
After ten years in the private sector I joined the federal service. During those ten years I opened a traditional IRA with Dain-Bosworth, now Dain-Rauscher. So I already have an account, dating back to around 1980.
I plan to roll the TSP into that account when I separate. They abate annual fees on accounts with a balance $250k or more. They will set up a free checking account on the side, with VISA card, etc. I can have all my bills paid automatically by that side-account, and use the VISA card for cash withdrawls at a local ATM.
I will have access to the full range of investment options. For instance in todays market, where we only have to option to go "long" in the TSP, our accounts are not earning much. In my IRA I can go "short" or enter any market worldwide.
I will have access to world-class investment advice and special offers such as new issues and proprietary investments.
Like any government program, the FTRIB hassles us and calls it "service." Bye-Bye!
TSP Funds
Doc VA Fri Aug 1, 2008 11:30 AM
Remember you can only withdraw money once and then the second withdrawal you have to remove the remaining balsnce. Unless you get an annuity, leaving money in TSP is not very user friendly. More likley than not, you can do much better on your own than the amount of annuity guranteed by TSP. I intend to roll my money over next year, when I retire; in order to have more control over when and how my money is withdrawn and invested.
Glass houses
FAA
Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:32 AM
Ralph: Agreed that Feds need to look closely before they leap out of the TSP and into a privately-run IRA company. One need look no further than your article for some of those trying companies to pry away our money... in the ads for fedsmith !
Seeking Access to the TSP's Billions
DOD
Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:48 AM
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone else would just keep their hands out of our pockets...
TSP
epa
Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:51 AM
I'm 44 and expect to work until 62 (although, i can retire at 56 w/32 years of service). It is my plan to do a one time in-service withdrawl from TSP at 59.5 and roll the $$$ into a low cost index fund IRA (Vanguard perhaps).
It's not that TSP isn't well run...it is. what scares me is other interests getting their meat hooks into TSP and ruining a good thing.
I just need to hang in there for another 15 years!
too many zero's
us navy
Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:00 AM
You have too many zero's in that TSP pile, and we all know how the greed builds with the wall street crowd. Remember folks, you will pay them in the end for a little gain. nuff said.
Re: too many zero's
FedSmith.com
Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:48 AM
Re: too many zero's
DoD
Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:09 PM
Re: too many zero's
vha
Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:33 AM
Whether it's tsp or 401k.
Give Me Switzerland
DOD
Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:36 AM
As I ponder retirement, I am 50/50 about keeping my money in the TSP, into retirement. A few months back, I leaned that way. Then, they brought in the overly restrictive 2 trades a month policy. Now we see policitians trying to meddle & corrupt our TSP. In the private sector, there has been an endles blur, of countless financial scandals & company officers going to jail, or fleeing out of the country. There has been many, many, bankruptsies & most could have been unnecessary. Do I feel safe with them managing my money? Absolutely not!! I wish I could transfer my assets, out the country to an "old school" Swiss banker. TSP should begin that option.
Bertrand Russell from The Will To Doubt
af
Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:54 AM
Political opinions are hardly ever based upon evidence, except in the case of civil servants, who are forbidden to give utterance to them. Freudians have accustomed us to "rationalizing," i.e. the process of inventing what seem to ourselves rational grounds for a decision or opinion that is in fact quite irrational. But there is, especially in English-speaking countries, a converse process which may be called "irrationalizing." A shrewd man will sum up, more or less subconsciously, the pros and cons of a question from a selfish point of view. Having come to a sound egoistic decision by the help of the unconscious, a man proceeds to invent, or adopt from others, a set of high-sounding phrases showing how he is pursuing the public good at immense personal sacrifice. Anybody who believes that these phrases give his real reasons must suppose him quite incapable of judging evidence, since the supposed public good is not going to result from his action.
Re: Bertrand Russell from The Will To Doubt
DOD
Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:35 PM
Stay In TSP - NO WAY!!!
DOD
Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:43 PM
As soon as I am able, all my money will get out of the TSP. There is no way I am going to trust the same organization that bankrupted Social Security to not do the same with the money in TSP. Once money is outside of the TSP, there are so many more options on how to invest. To paint TIAA-CREF and Fidelity (rwo well respected financial institutions) and as hoodlums is a bit like saying don't drink water becasue some people have been known to drown in it.
POST REPLY
DOD Tinker AFB
Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:51 PM
After reading many articles about the TSP Funds, all I can gather is that you can't trust anyone and make sure to read and understand all the fine print. "CAVEAT EMPTOR "applies to selling as well as buying.
Roll Over Other Mutual Funds Into TSP
USDA Forest Service
Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:07 PM
As a retired Forest Service Employee, I would like to roll over my other IRA Mutual Funds into the TSP. I would much rather do that than visa-versa. Can we make sure that the Congress will not sell us out!!!
If "Pro" is the opposite of "Con", what is the opposite of "Progress"??? It's something to think about...
Seeking Access to the TSP's Billions
DOD
Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:02 AM
Unless the TSP Board educate it's members of these attempts to take advantage of us, then Fed employees will continue to be fodder for the wolves. The Fed did such a good job on doing what's best for the Fed Employee on the last go around with the IFT limitation, we should expect them to continue their good work on protecting our interests. ( INSERT SARCASM EMOTICON HERE).
Signed,
One who is not blind to the TSP's commitment to barclays.
leave my money alone
usda
Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:31 AM
No one has any right to my money which I saved and worked hard for. Too many hands want in the pot and this will be another spoiled stew. Leave my money alone it is mine.
Throwing Sheep to Wolves, Baa-baa
DOD
Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:51 AM
Start writing, calling, telefaxing and emailing your senators and Representatives to put the kibosh on this, FAST. If they don't hear a protest, they'll think it's all right.
I intend to write or email every senator and Representative in the country, not just my own, if possible. We should keep track of who votes in favor of this invitation to swindle and work to defeat those peole the next time they run, anywhere, for anything.
Thrift Savings Plan
USDA - Forest Service
Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:20 PM
What's interesting about this is back in 1986 when they were encouraging CSRS employees to switch to FERS, we (on my forest) were told that CSRS employees would never be given the opportunity to contribute to TSP. The TSP was a portion of the 3 part retirement system for FERS employees (a reduced annuity, SS, and TSP). Then, low and behold, CSRS employees were given the opportunity to contribute to TSP and since they have been doing so, the fund has grown considerably. If I had known that CSRS folks would be given the opportunity to contribute, I would have stayed under CSRS (a much bigger annuity). I also found out that my FERS supplement is subject to the SS rules for folks under 65 (spousal earnings are considered) and this is also a huge shock to my system. My FERS supplement will be subject to a huge reduction because of my spouce. I believe old CSRS employees were given a bunch of bad information years ago when I switched.
Re: Thrift Savings Plan
DOD
Fri Aug 1, 2008 12:05 PM
Ignorance Costly for TSPers
Air Force
Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:29 PM
After the IFT fiasco earlier this year that limited everyone to two moves per month, it became obvious 99% of the TSPers are tragically ignorant of the financial, equity and commodity markets, exceeded only by their unwillingness to learn, exceeded only by the TSP management unwillingness to help them learn. I have no intention of staying in TPS. What makes TSP a great investment vehicle is the matching funds and the tax deferred growth. After that, it fails to keep up with many of the mutual fund groups like those advertising.
Observe how no one has cited the rate of return of either advertisers versus the funds of the TSP. The issue is not the fee, it is the annual return on the principle. Better returns require better fees!! You get what you pay for!! AARRggghhhh!!!
I agree with the previous sarcasm about Barclay's. Wouldn't be surprised to find fractional reserve banking and brokerage behind the green curtain.
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
TSO
Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:23 PM
Also, your statement regarding the TSP not willing to educate it's participants on commodities is not relevant since the TSP isn't designed to deal in commodities. It makes no sense for the TSP to educate it's participants in a market it doesn't invest in, that would be a waste of money.
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
Air Force
Fri Aug 1, 2008 11:21 AM
Focusing on secondary or invalid issues instead of the important aspects. Misdirection for purposes of manipulation resulting in flock following of superior elite thinking.
Many is not general... most mutual funds do not outperform the indexes, many of them do, including many of the funds in the advertisers portfolios. the whole issue of fees is a red herring compared to performance. Would you pay Warren Buffet a higher fee to manage your account?
As for the "insight" on commodities.. ARRRGgghhh!!! They don't help on what they do offer, unlike the advertisers.
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
TSO
Fri Aug 1, 2008 5:34 PM
As far as commodities go, just because it's your opinion that TSP doesn't do a good job of educating it's participants on what they do invest in doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense and is a waste of money for them to try to educate participants on what they don't invest in. It's still a waste of money. The reason is obvious.
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
DoD
Sat Aug 2, 2008 12:33 PM
C fund - 9.37
all mutual funds Large Value - 7.35
all mutual funds Large Blend - 7.08
all mutual funds Large Growth - 8.16
S fund - 14.8
all mutual funds Small Value - 9.59
all mutual funds Small Blend - 10.08
all mutual funds Small Growth - 8.16
I fund - 16.82
all mutual funds International small/mid - 15.96
all mutual funds International Large Value - 14.08
all mutual funds International Large Blend - 14.31
all mutual funds International Large Growth - 14.28
Sources - morningstar.com and tsp.gov
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
Air Force
Mon Aug 4, 2008 3:46 PM
One more time; many is not "most" neither is it "all".
fidelity fund data from today:
Symbol YTD %
FDFFX +4.53
HRSVX +5.4
JMCVX +3.79
FLVCX +8.75
CHTTX +4.09
Does anyone doubt there are 'many' more, but not 'most' and not 'all' that are doing better than TSP index funds?
Again, the fee is secondary to the performance of the investment. And the fee for TSP being a comparison theme in a statement by a senator is bogus.
The mutual funds that were advertising to TSP holders do a better job of educating their investors than the TSP. We are neither helped nor encouraged to actively improve our investment returns.
I wish you all good returns, but there are much better returns outside the TSP.
Re: Ignorance Costly for TSPers
Air Force
Tue Aug 5, 2008 8:00 AM
I also went to the web site and looked at the authentic documents, ads and letters. I recomment you do the same.
http://aging.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=301453
I remain convinced that TIAA-CREF and Fidelity are both better investment situations from which to manage retirement funds than TSP. However, there are even better situations.
I am increasingly convinced that no amount of pleading, arguing, and discussing will help some people get off their couch and learn how to maximize their investment opportunities. Maybe we ought to recognize TSP as the couch potato's solution to retirement management.
Ignorance is bliss, you get what you work for.....
TSP Rollover
Army
Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:58 PM
I look forward to rolling my TSP into an IRA, where the investment options are not locked into some myopic 5 funds. An IRA can be in ANY public security, or real estate, or a local small business, or even loans to friends and some relatives. Your TSP money in a decent rental home will provide a bigger annuity than any government option, AND an appreciating asset. Wake up folks. I continue to urge change to the TSP statute to allow roll out to an IRA of the employees vested TSP amounts during service, say even once per year. The statute change would be a few simple wording changes to 5 USC 8433.
Personal Email:
Fred.Greek@yahoo.com
Rollover? Yes!
NOAA
Fri Aug 1, 2008 6:13 AM
After ten years in the private sector I joined the federal service. During those ten years I opened a traditional IRA with Dain-Bosworth, now Dain-Rauscher. So I already have an account, dating back to around 1980.
I plan to roll the TSP into that account when I separate. They abate annual fees on accounts with a balance $250k or more. They will set up a free checking account on the side, with VISA card, etc. I can have all my bills paid automatically by that side-account, and use the VISA card for cash withdrawls at a local ATM.
I will have access to the full range of investment options. For instance in todays market, where we only have to option to go "long" in the TSP, our accounts are not earning much. In my IRA I can go "short" or enter any market worldwide.
I will have access to world-class investment advice and special offers such as new issues and proprietary investments.
Like any government program, the FTRIB hassles us and calls it "service." Bye-Bye!
TSP Funds
VA
Fri Aug 1, 2008 11:30 AM
Remember you can only withdraw money once and then the second withdrawal you have to remove the remaining balsnce. Unless you get an annuity, leaving money in TSP is not very user friendly. More likley than not, you can do much better on your own than the amount of annuity guranteed by TSP. I intend to roll my money over next year, when I retire; in order to have more control over when and how my money is withdrawn and invested.