Chief Flight Systems Engineer - Retired Dept of Air Force Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:09 AM
After further research, I now know it was Congress and the Clinton Administration that caused this problem, by forcing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to provide low cost, high risk loans to low income people. Forcing these financial institutions to allow the following as valid income sources: overtime and part–time work, second jobs (including seasonal work), retirement and Social Security income, alimony, child support, Veterans Administration (VA) benefits, welfare payments, and unemployment benefits - is not sound business. The government should stay out of business.
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
HR Specialist IRS Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:06 AM
Sir, I will be retiring in the near future with a very generous Civil service Retirement System Pension . Are you saying that my Civil Service Pension should not be considered if and when I seek a mortgage ?
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
Specialist Federal Agency Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:41 AM
I find it interesting that after 8 years of this weak republican administration that you could point the blame on congress and the Clinton Administration. Personally, the fact that the Bush Administration has continually said we are not in a recession, ignoring the problem, more problems were created. Let's not make this a political issue when it is really not.
While the banks and lenders carry some blame, I personally believe that any idiot who borrowed money for a home loan and knew they would be strapped with monthly finances is to blame. It's time to go back to teaching people to balance their own budgets - that is not the government's job! Nor is it my responsibility as a citizen to pay for the idiotic decisions of those who bought and really could not afford to. Remember, credit is good but you still have to pay the bills. Look around on any given weekend and see the number of people at shopping malls with credit cards in hand! Wake up Americans!
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
IT Specialist DOD Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:25 PM
I can see why he could blame the Clinton Administration for this. It started in the Clinton Administration. Mortgage Companies were pressured to relax standards in giving out loans to people who could not pay. The Bush administrations tried numerous of times to reign in the out-of-control lending practices, but efforts were blocked by Democrats and Republicans, mostly by the Democrats in the Senate. There are plenty of internet articles explaining what happened here. Even President Clinton the last couple of days has stated that his own party stopped reforms during his administration and Bush's administration. Why do think there are not any hearings being demanded. It is because Congress knows they are dirty and culpable with this mess. Top Fannie and Freddie money takers were Senators Dodd, Obama, and Kerry. Follow the money and it takes you to Congress. It was John McCain in 2005 that warned his counterparts that a disaster was coming. It was ignored.
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
Watcher Inner Sanctum Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:26 PM
So, CFSE-RETIRED , you are saying you are a BAD RISK due to the fact you are a RETIRED individual? Correct? Must be.
Or, you are saying only RETIRED Republicans are not at risk.
Get real.
The blame is on the mortgage companies, the past 8 years of this Administration, and MAVERICKs that are against regulation and are out to de-reg, like that comic duo, DEREG and PITBULL RED.
and GREED, found in some of the finest GOP closets around.
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
Fed Peasant DOD Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:18 AM
Chief Flt Systems Engr - Ret Dept of Air Force:
You got a few things crystal clear & correct. You are missing big sections however, too numerous to list here. This is a more complex nightmare!!
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
Silly Servant DoD Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:07 AM
Yep, I'm one of those folks who could not afford a decent loan. After being unceremoniously RIF-ed from active duty during the anti-military Clinton administration, I took a job at about a half of my military pay. I bought a home that I should have NO WAY qualified for (I did NOT use my benefits because ANYTHING related to VA SUCKS). This was after the Clinton administration had relaxed a lot of the regulations in mortgages & banking. I qualified for the loan by working a second job and exaggerating my "worth". It was a crappy loan with a teaser rate that was to balloon in five years. I kept my nose to the grindstone, job-hopped my way around the working world (still working at my part time home-based business), and kept my debts low. Before the "balloon" was to inflate, I refinanced to a fixed LOWER rate, 15 year mortgage. Oh, and somewhere in the process, I took another $20K cut in pay for the honor of working as a DoD civil servant. So there's plenty of blame to go around, get it?
Something needs to be done
Program Analyst OPM Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:19 AM
Regardless of who is to blame, Congress and the Administration need to do something. Perhaps they can negotiate the 700 billion dollars down to something that will make everyone happy. They should not wait for the next President to clean this up.
Why not blame the borrowers?
Editor DoD Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:22 AM
Hardly any of the survey responses address the fact that many of these borrowers are responsible for this mess! When my family went to buy a house five years ago, we had done our homework. We realized how much equity we had in our current home, figured out how much of a down payment we'd need, and bought a house WITHIN OUR MEANS at a reasonable rate. I know so many who bought a house under an adjustable mortgage rate - which, unless you KNOW you're going to be making more money in the future is, I'm sorry, just stupid. Others bought way more home than they could afford. Yes, lenders probably duped them, but if you don't have a firm idea what your budget is before you go house hunting, you are also largely responsible if your home then goes into foreclosure ... that's the harsh truth of the situation.
Re: Why not blame the borrowers?
Clerk DOI Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:47 AM
I totally agree. It's a matter of personal responsibility. A lender can only rope one into a shady mortgage deal if one is irresponsible enough to sign the contract.
Like you, I flat refused to mortgage myself up to eyeballs for a particular house, when I could (and did) find a nicer one for thousands less than most were priced in my area.
Re: Why not blame the borrowers?
Specialist Federal Agency Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:49 AM
I fully agree...
I believe we each must be fiscally responsible for our ownselves. It's not the government's job nor the taxpayers responsibility to take care of you.
Placing Blame
Manager FAA Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:23 AM
I think it is interesting that some folks blame the Bush Administartion for these problems. This was caused initially buy acts of the government in 1999 (hint Bill Clinton was president).
There is some blame to be had by the lending companies but the largest blame should fall on the irresponsible borrowers. They bought more than they could afford and most of them did it knowing it could end badly. What ever has happened to personally responsibility. We need to take the responsibility for our actions both good and bad. Our country has changed to trying to find someone else to blame for our own mistakes.
Have some personal accountability and stop blaming everyone else.
Re: Placing Blame
ATCS FAA Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:36 AM
FAA Manager
Personal responsibility, that's hilarious coming from a FAA supervisor, "safety was never compromised"
Re: Placing Blame
analyst dod Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:29 AM
ATCS, what's your quote got to do with the current financial situation? We appreciate your comment but please give us something that's relevant.
Federal Reserve System at fault
Chief Land Resources Program Center-SERO DOI/National Park Service Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:23 AM
We are in this crisis because of an excess of artificially created credit at the hands of the Federal Reserve System. The solution being proposed? More artificial credit by the Federal Reserve. No liquidation of bad debt and malinvestment is to be allowed. By doing more of the same, we will only continue and intensify the distortions in our economy - all the capital misallocation, all the malinvestment - and prevent the market's attempt to re-establish rational pricing of houses and other assets.
We are told that "low interest rates" led to excessive borrowing, but we are not told how these low interest rates came about. They were a deliberate policy of the Federal Reserve. As always, artificially low interest rates distort the market. Entrepreneurs engage in malinvestments - investments that do not make sense in light of current resource availability, that occur in more temporally remote stages of the capital structure than the pattern of consumer demand can support.
Check out the Glass-Stegall repeal of 1999
Security Specialist Army Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:26 AM
This started with the CLINTON administration!
On November 13, 1999, President Clinton signed into effect a "sweeping overhaul of the Depression-era banking laws" The measure lifts barriers in the industry and allows banks, securities firms and insurance companies to merge and sell each other's products.
Lehman Brothers got a taste of Glass-Stegall on Sunday 14 Sept 2008. Their demise after 156 years is a direct result.
Re: Check out the Glass-Stegall repeal of 1999
Mr Big Stuff Bureaucracy Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:45 AM
Wasn't the repeal of the G-S act introduced by Republican Senator Phil Gramm of Texas?
Bail Out
employee VHA Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:26 AM
I am against the Bail Out. My question is how long does the bail out prevent the onset of recession? The economy runs in cycles. Will we eventually have a recession regardless? Are we just putting it off?
An yes, Iam with many Americans. Why do help these companies? Why not help the citizens that they have broke the backs of? Yea we can say it is the fault of the people who took out the loans but... come on I think they we snuckered. Yea ago my husband and refinanced our home with a floating balance. I changed that in a hurry once I figured it out. We are not all market or finance genuises. These companies snuckered thsese people just like my husband and I were snuckered.
Let the companies suffer their peril.
THE BLAME
TERRY TAYLOR SSA Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:35 AM
I think it is ignorance that makes folks blame the Bush Administration for the mess. Bush and several Republican Senators tried from 2001 on the get more oversight of Fannie and Freddie and Barney Franks in the House and his counterpart in the Senate fought it tooth and nail and now "the honorable?" Mr. Franks is trying to shift all the blame to someone else...but the old video of his opposition doesn't lie. The blame clearly should be at the feet of Congress and particularly the ones who made the loaning practices of Fannie and Freddie a mockery.
Re: THE BLAME
Fed Worker & Union Guy DOD Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:11 PM
The effort to privatize social security is now vaporized. That idea is now banished, & will never come back!!
Re: THE BLAME
team leader DoD Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:16 PM
Fed Worker, you're comparing apples to oranges. The social security debate involved investing in safe and well diversified broad indexes. The current crisis was caused by concentrated investing in a single high risk sector.
Your response, while emotionally understandable is a knee jerk reaction that doesn't hold up to a critical examination of the facts.
Bailout
Training Manager FAA Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:45 AM
Here's an idea. Instead of giving $700 billion plus to the mortgage companies and such, why don't we just payoff all of our home loans with that money and call it even?
Re: Bailout
Specialist Federal Agency Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:52 AM
And, I'll take my home into foreclosure so I can have my home loan paid off too!
I don't agree with the bail out, nor do I agree that the money should pay off the foreclosed homes. Doing so hurts taxpayers who are PAYING their bills and who used common sense when they purchased homes - they bought within their means!
Who Is Responsible?
Progam Manager DoD Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:06 AM
Patrick Leahy lead the effort to force banks and lending institutions give sub-prime mortgages to those who did not qualify for such loans under the existing guidelines. Although this was a noble sentiment, it has proven to be fiscally reckless. It is untrue and unfair to totally blame the executive branch for the laws passed by the legislative branch. The action available once Congress passed the law was for the President to veto it; this too may have been useless as there probably enough support to override the veto. As for the rescue plan, we must act now; I do not know what the right answer is but the longer we wait, the worse it will get.
Bailouts and Blame
Business Analyst Defense Contracts Management Agency Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:10 AM
What more can I add? I agree with the feelings expressed by the supervisor with Customs and Border Protection in Eureka, Montana and the contracts manager with NASA in Huntsville, AL. Those of us who acted responsibly throughout our lives should not have to pay for those who are not! Does anyone recollect the fable about the Ant and The Grasshopper?
I will agree with the program manager from the Dept. of Commerce in Washington in seeking remedy as taxpayers if we DO have to bail out the system.
Re: Bailouts and Blame
Worker VA Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:26 AM
I wholeheartedly agree. Regardless of your income, YOUR decisions should affect YOUR livelihood, not the livelihood of others who are fiscally responsible, that includes the clowns on Wallstreet, who are afraid that their former decisions are now haunting them. How can you blame someone else for your mistakes? I, too, would like the taxpayers to pay for my mortgage and other investments, but that is not reality, nor should it be for the folks who have screwed the country and want a bailout. Get a life!
Hello
retired U S P S Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:13 AM
The undecided HELLO are you alive in there. Or is the sawdust getting in the way.
Re: Hello
Retired USPS Postal service Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:33 AM
Maybe we should all understand that the response from Paulson Bernanke Cox underlies the real show stopper here. While mainstreet focuses on blaming the defaulting mortgage holders via irresponsible lenders the issuance of Credit Default Swaps [CDS] by the likes of AIG, Lehman, etc. is the true devil. We are being asked to collateralize leveraged purchases of to 40 to 1 ratios so Wall Street will be made whole under the hubris of saving the little guy. Brilliant!! As an American I ask you to stop drinking the Kool aid of the Media left and right. Do your home work. Google Credit Default Swaps and see how both Parties have totally failed us. Yes lending money to people too easily, a mistake. No regulation of what Warren Buffet termed 'Economic WMDs', a mistake. Should you and I bail either out? Never
Re: Hello
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:35 PM
Actually, the sawdust is doing fine. I chose "undecided". While a bailout may be necessary to keep the wheels of commerce turning, the succuss or failure of the buyout will depend on who well it is done. If someone just opens up a 7 billion dollar account with no oversight then it will fail. If the bailout supports the big companies and investors without care for the average guy (and taxpayer,) then it will fail.
So, I hope, (I do, I do, I do,) that congress and the president and the banking wizards all do something that will be historic in its ability to turn around this situation.
Alas, I fear they will simply continue to make their political and commercial buddies rich.
Therefore, this sawdust-filled head cannot tell yet if a bailout is a good idea or not.
Root Causes
HR Specialist IRS Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:18 AM
I think that one of the root causes of this problem can be traced back to the decline of the educational system in this country. People have lost the ability to analyze situations and arrive at rational appropriate decisions and solutions i.e. individuals and the government can't keep spending more money than they have earned, or in the case of government have taxed the citizenry. This should have been intuitive to individuals with analytical abilities. The second root problem is the decline in moral values in this country and the western world. Whatever happened to honesty and running a business that has ethics standards? Far too many people merely mouth the mantras of their chosen political party.
Re: Root Causes
Specialist Federal Agency Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:19 PM
Here, here on the decline of the educational system! Let's get back to teaching soft skills like the ability to balance your own checkbook and how to properly use credit.
Re: Root Causes
Editor DoD Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:24 AM
Totally agree - HR Specialist, you are right on target! The morality (or lack thereof) comes into play among the rich and the poor alike - corrupt/overpaid CEOs on one side, people who are perfectly fit to work, yet live off of welfare on the other.
Home Ownership
Project Manager HUD Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:21 AM
Home ownership is not for everyone. It should be reserved only for those with proven good credit, those that have saved money for a down payment and the ability to pay around 30% of their monthly income for housing. There should be no shame in renting a house or apt. if you are personally not there. The administration crammed homeownership down everyone's throat as the right thing for ALL americans and worked backward from there by making it too easy and available to those that should rent and be happy.
Re: Home Ownership
Worker DoD Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:57 AM
Exactly which administration are you talking about? From my perspective, this is an issue caused and exacerbated by members of both parties and over multiple presidential administrations.
Clinton wasn't responsible
IT SPEC DOE Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:26 AM
Clinton could not veto the bill - it was "veto proof"(From Wiki):
"The bill that ultimately repealed the Act was introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (R-TX) and in the House of Representatives by James Leach (R-IA) in 1999. The bills were passed by a 54-44 vote along party lines with Republican support in the Senate[7] and by a 343-86 vote in the House of Representatives[8]. Nov 4, 1999: After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. The final bipartisan bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90-8-1 and in the House: 362-57-15. Without forcing a veto vote, this bipartisan, veto proof legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999."
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
IT Specialist DOD Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:49 PM
You are correct with respect to this bill, but this bill does address the fact that it was Congress who pressured lendors to loosen its requirements for getting loans for lower income buyers. Bad Credit...No Problem, No Down Payment...No Problem,No Job...No Problem. The Bush Administration tried repeatedly to fix this bad practice, but was rebuffed by Congress. There is blame on both parties, but Senators Dodd and Frank are mostly to blame for the lack of reforms that were needed. Yet they being allowed on TV and no one in the media is going after them. The reason why is Obama gets hurt if they do because he was a big campaign recipient from Fannie and Freddie along with Dodd and Kerry. To be fair McCain got money as well, but it was from and idividual donor and not Political Action Funds. Think about it, a quasi Government Entity with a Political Action Committee. This was a recipe for disaster. Congress on the take from an organization they were supposed to be monitoring.
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
Watcher Inner Sanctum Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:17 PM
Which means that a Republican controlled congress is the reason that we are in this mess now. They created it then, they permitted it to continue, and they are trying to lay their blame on the other side.
So there...
Bunch of whiners.
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
IT Specialist DOD Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:11 PM
Watcher- You forget history. Even though the Repubicans had a majority in the house, they did not have a 60 vote majority in the Senate to stop a filibuster. The Democrats were able to stop the reform bills from getting to the floor because there was not 60 Republican votes to overide their objections. The Democrats own this mess to some degree. Look at the Senate now. Why do you think the Democrats have been unable to force Bush out of IRAQ by cutting off funding? They don't have the 60 votes needed to overide a filibuster in the Senate by the Republicans. Social Security reform dies in the Senate because the Democrats stopped it. A energy plan died in the Senate because the democrats stopped it. Federal appointments didn't occur because the democrats stopped it. You have to have 60 votes to force legislation through the Senate. That is not whining, it is the politics in the Senate.
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
Diversity Manager DOL Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:30 PM
Who was president then = Clinton so if he wasn't to blame and since the Democrats control both houses than Bush can't be blamed either. i guess the good economy that Osama keeps talking about in the 90's was a Republican success!!!
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
admin asst doe Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:12 PM
"Which means that a Republican controlled congress is the reason that we are in this mess now. They created it then, they permitted it to continue, and they are trying to lay their blame on the other side."
This is the kind of partisan crap that is getting in the way of a solution. This situation has been festering for many years and it's ridiculous to lay the blame at only one politcal party or institution.
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
Diversity Manager DOL Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:53 PM
Adm Assist allI can say to your post is Huh???
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
admin asst doe Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:00 PM
Ok Diversity Manager, I'll simplify it for you now pay attention..
The poster I responded to is trying to assert that this problem is all due to one political party. With me so far?
Now that's obviously ridiculous, this situation had its roots back in the mid 90s and politicians from both sides have been aware of it ever since. They've all had countless opportunities to address it ever since and they haven't until now.
Clear enough for you?
Bailout
Secretary US Army Corps of Engineers Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:28 AM
Why wasn't a survey bullet point added to blame the Clinton Administration? It was during his administration in 1997 that the Tax Relief Act of 1997 was passed which created the tax-payer backed agencies which caused this housing bubble and subsequent crisis.
Borrowers/Lending Institutions
Adminstrative Assistant I.R.S. Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:29 AM
The borrowers and the lending instutions are both to blame. When my husband and I were looking for a home, the bank told us, "The bad news is you don't qualify for a $500,00.00 home. The good news is, you qualify for a $450,000.00 home." We told them outright , "The bad news for you is that we were not going to buy anything over $200,000.00. We had done our homework and knew what we could be comfortable with with a built in cushion for unexpected expenditures.
When my husband lost his job 4 years ago, we could afford our home with a little belt tightening until he found a new job. This generation is the "Now" generation -- must have it all NOW! What's wrong with starting small and trading up like we did?
BAIL OUT
Generalist USDC/SDNY Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:33 AM
The PREZ is in 4 or 8 years. Congress however controls and manipulates the system...they are the Legislatures. Corruption is rampent throughout the system. V.A. and other GOVT agencies require oversight and must beg for their budget! How come MEDICAID, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac required NO SUCH OVERSITE yet they had Congressional Charters??
We should adopt the ancient Roman System....they (Congress & Senate) should serve as an honor and not be paid!
Re: BAIL OUT
IT Specialist DOD Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:51 PM
In Rome, they could afford to not get paid. They were already rich. They were all wealthy land owners.
Fire Sale
KC Douglas Homeland Security Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:36 AM
Should the bail out occur, let's hope that the "fire sale" will be watched over for the next seven years. Individuals who would refinance their home should not be able to capitalize within the first seven years of the loan. Example: You refi today for the re-evaluated price of your home which is far less than your mortgage; and the balance of your old mortgage is wiped away by the bail out. If within or less than seven years down the road, you decide to sell and because NOW the home has valuated extremely well especially since your NEW mortgage balance is much less than original, you make a huge profit. Who's profit is it; yours or the governments? If we are to have faith again in our lending institutions, a plan DEFINITELY needs to be in place OR we'll be in the same muck all over again! I vote YES to the bail out with long term provisions NOT short term ones.
Help for Main Street
QA USAF Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:37 AM
I am against the bail out for the same reasons as stated above. I want to see the first Politian that can look me in the eye and tell me we cannot fix Social Security. That would really help the Taxpayer.
Clinton
Budget Analyst USDA Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:22 PM
Oh boy! Oh boy! Something else to blame on Clinton - yippy!!
If Clinton didn't exist, conservatives would have to invent him.
Take it from someone who used to be conservative, folks--conservatives are incapable of governing. It is not a viable philosophy.
Re: Clinton
analyst dod Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:36 AM
"conservatives are incapable of governing. It is not a viable philosophy."
This sort of one sided nonsense is part of the problem. To say one side of the aisle is incapable of governing is unbelievably naive.
Bailout
Diversity Manager DOL Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:24 PM
The congress needs to take decisive action. The CR that is moving thru congress needs to be vetoed. We can't afford a 3.9% wage hike for CS. It needs to be taken from the proposal and wages need to be frozen for 5 years
Re: Bailout
usda worker Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:01 PM
sure glad to see that you make enough money to give up any raises for the next 5 years. what about the rest of US
Re: Bailout
Thorn in the Side DOD Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:14 PM
Hi, Dan/Max/Osama!
Lack of regulation to blame
Retired Air Force Civilian in San Antonio TX US Air Force Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:24 PM
Fed Smith failed to print my comment so I will make it here-- Everyone, especially Texas' Bush knew this was comming but all of government failed to regulate the lenders. This exact thing happened in South Texas in the 1980s. The bubble burst, people walked away from houses, home values fell as properties were sold at auction and all "Savings and Loan" were bankrupted. Why didn't government learn from history? The entire country has been talking about the bubble bursting for years--so why was there no legislation to put some controls on the greedy banking/investment community? This bailout must come with some federal control over the people who made the bad loans and got rich doing it!
blame and bailout
retired dod Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:10 PM
The persons to blame are the real estate brokers, the mortgage bankers and brokers. It is their greed that put us in this situation. The realtors saw a possible sale of a house. They did not care that the person wanting to buy was looking for something too big for their pocketbook and could not afford the monthly payments. They worked with the mortgage brokers and bankers to find some kind of a deal that could pass the underwriters. Was it a sound deal. Of course not. As soon as I saw interest only loans being offered as a matter of course I saw this situation coming.... years ago. Arms are just as bad if you are not prepared to refinance before the arm is up. I know the realitors and the mortgage brokers and bankers don't give their clients an class in economics when they sign these contracts. They just run to the bank to cash their commission chekcs before the forclosure hits. The bail out should be paid for by each an every realtor, broker and banker personally who was involved.
Re: blame and bailout
Worker DoD Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:06 AM
Blaming it on the brokers and realtors must mean that if your house was only valued at 100K, but someone was willing to give you 150K, you would turn them down and only sell for 100K. Why would you want to make a profit at the other guys expense? Oh, thats right, it is called capitalism.
Re: blame and bailout
Specialist Federal Agency Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:52 AM
And the individuals who took out these loans have no responsibility??? Let's not put all the blame on the bankers, etc., the individuals who opted for these loans instead of looking realistically at their own finances have just as much blame. People can't keep buying just because they have credit thrown in their faces. We all have a responsibility to live within our means and to use credit wisely! People should have researched the loans they were getting into before signing on the dotted line. I don't feel sorry for any of them!
What Conspiracy
Counselor Bureau of Prisons Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:35 PM
There is no conspiracy afoot. Only foul play and deception. It is the financial investment groups playing chicken little and screaming that the sky is falling. As of right now, the public has 5 Trillion dollars safely tucked away in money market accts, patiently waiting on the sidelines for a correction in the market. Heck, the hedge funds have an additional 70 billion in CASH sitting on the sidelines. So yes, the capital and liquidity is there! When the tech bubble (remember the phrase "venture capital!) burst in 02 nobody was screaming that the economy was going bust. But now that the big financial companies are going to have to face a shakeout due to their own greed, their all on the same page screaming economic crisis. I say let em fail. You don't see the prudent investment firms (ING, Smith-Barney, etc) proclaiming the end of civilization. Congress and the gov't are being duped into believing that a so-called economic crisis exists!!!!!
Has anyone really done the math?
Purchasing Agent Forest Service Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:49 PM
It's impossible for me to get a handle on what 85 billion of anything let alone dollars looks like. There's a site you can go to where someone has done the math. > Interesting thought giving the money to the people but of course that will never happen. The next time some politico throws around the word billions you just might want to drag out the calculator.
Bailout
Environmental Specialist Department of Energy Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:54 PM
Congress is going to pass a bill in less than a week???
They can't even pass a budget in 12 months.
Let us talk about "bailout". How about 30,000 feet up and no parachute for any of the money lenders.
Re: Bailout
Prof Small College Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:47 AM
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. Great nations rise and fall.
Attributed to Alexander Fraser Tyler (Lord Woodhouselee), authorshp actually unknown.
How Did We Get Into This Mess In The First Place
Retired DoC Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:28 AM
If you want to be educated about our financial mess, watch this video. If you don't believe it, then do your own research and look up the assertions made and documented in the fast-moving video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o
Bailout
Work Leader KyARNG Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:44 AM
My thoughts are this; The bailout should occur to save us from a severe recession or depression. However, the following CONDITIONS should be met by each company named in the bailout; cease all bonus compensations for ALL employees, CEO's and board members; review all salaries of chief and board executives for possible reductions AND force companies into a contract to pay back America for their bailout (at an interest rate they charge their typical customer, which is an interesting thought in itself).
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
Re: Bailout
Diversity Manager DOL Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:59 PM
I agree Congress gave its OK for Fannie and Freddie to pay the top guys $1M in salary. Guess they only like some rich as long as they are sending them money.
In addition all Fed pay and bonuses need to be frozen as well to show the country our resolve
Economic situation
Thorn in the Side DOD Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:07 AM
I think it's an error to look at the current problems are being solely the result of the mortgage situation. A lot of things have been going on for some time which have snowballed to cause this. The phone company was deregulated, and now the cost is higher and the service worse; taxes were replaced by "fees" of various types which, in the aggregate, are probably higher than the taxes would have been. You really do need to be careful what you ask for.
The biggest single factor is greed. In the 19th century, a lot of "sharp practices" were allowed that were later supressed by legal and social change. We have now moved back toward the robber-baron era.
No Bail Out
Front Line Manager DOT Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:24 PM
When is America going to get back to the basic concept of consequences for your actions? Bad mortgages were encouraged by lenders who lowered their standards to make money. The real problem is the individual who cannot do the math required to know his/her $65,000 income will not allow him to refinance his/her house for $400K just because it is valued at that. People think that what ever the internet or real estate executive tells them is truth. IN reality it is what the market can stand and it fell hard! Find the CEO who took millions from these companies who are now defunct and make them pay. The poor soul on the bottom of the chain with an outstanding mortgage. I'm sorry, learn from mistakes and move on. This is America and you can be prosperous again. Take responsibility for yourself and stop asking for my TAX DOLLARS!
Just for those who are open to the truth.
Retired Supervisor DoD Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:47 AM
Although facts are not as much fun as name calling and it is incredibly difficult for some to look beyond their hatred, the people who do prefer facts will find these useful:
Retired Civil Engineer US Army Corps of Engineers Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:04 AM
All politician responsible for creating this mess should be exposed so that we know who not to vote in the next election. They are the ones who legalized "EXTORTION."
I honestly believe that this process is fair.
Re: Expose those who were responsible
Worker DoD Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:16 AM
The media are very selective on what they report because they have an agenda. The terms "journalist" and "journalism" are dead when it comes to the mainstream media giants (ABC, NBC, MSNBC, FOX, CNN, etc). I wouldn't count on the media exposing anyone unless it is in their interest.
Who's to blame
Diversity Manager DOL Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:56 PM
Admin it is now but I suggest that you go back and read your post its says the republicans were responsible. Hopefully you just type and don't compose
2005 bill to increase regulation
Nurse Practitioner VAMC Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:09 AM
I became very angry when I read this week that Congress had a chance to avert this crisis in 2005. When Franklin Rains, the CEO of Fannie Mae until being fired in 2004, left they found out that he had been doctoring the books to increase his bonuses!!! Instead of passing increased regulation/oversight with the 2005 bill, Congress voted it down. Congress enjoyed getting people into houses. They are a bunch of lawyers for the most part that have never owned or run a business. All they care aobut is getting re-elected. I have had it with those that are "serving me" right now. I would like to tell them all what I think they have been serving me.
Re: 2005 bill to increase regulation
Prof Small College Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:08 AM
Vote them out of office.
Bailout
management assistant IRS Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:46 AM
I beleive that we will have to bail out the financial instituions, but not to their expectations.
We need to send them packing with no dollars or maybe their months servence pay.
The ones thay gave bad loans to are out in the street, so why should be line the pockets of those executives out of our tax dollars. We are having a hard enough time of surving on what little we make as it is.
Not SEND THEM PACKING AND LITTLE OR NO FUNDS TO LINE THEIR POCKETS. LET THEM PAY FOR THEIR MISTAKES AND BAD DECISIONS. If any other company or private industry makes bad decisions, they are not compensated for their failure.
Most of the companies of this country have gone money hungrey, including the federal, state & county governments. They think they have to have all the best at the peoples expense.
Also, this country in no longer run by the people.
What happened to "BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE.
Also, IN GOD WE TRUST. Lets go back to the basic.
Use no name please
Thanks
National debt-Bailouts
soil scientist usda-nrcs Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:22 AM
The current monetary situation in this country is an absolute disgrace. Out of control greedy, dishonest wall street bankers and mortgage companies; out of control federal spending. Our gigantic national debt is being financed largely by Red China, a communist nation and Saudi Arabia, a muslim country with a component of active radicals. Some day our enslaved impoverished ancestors will look down on the gravestone of the great nation we once were and read, "Killed by its own Greed and Ignorance"
Re: National debt-Bailouts
Specialist Federal Agency Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:57 AM
You forgot the greed by the American people in your rant. This country has become a scene for having the best of everything (latest technology, biggest house, designer brand clothes) regardless of how you get it. The credit card debt of the American people is also a driver in this mess. And don't blame the credit card companies for sending you a notice to get one. Each of us has a responsibilty to manage our personal finances and to NOT expect the government to bail us out.
While spending money helps the economy, it only helps if you are not using credit to do so.
We all need to live within our means!
What about Me
Information Coordinator US Army Civilian Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:59 AM
I've had to relocate for employment and due to this "crisis" my home hasn't sold. Where is my bail-out? I think if a Bail-out is put in place it should go to the legitimate consumers who are just trying to make it rather than the idiots who made irresponsible decisions with no regard to their investors or the economy. What percentage of this $700 Billion will help me?
COLA
ret CSRS ret dod of us airforce Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:07 AM
cola count retrects with one month to go for Jan 2009 federal retiement COLA, the count stand at 6 percent. following a drop of .05 percent in August in the inflation index to detnine that adjustment. I dont know where they are getting information i when to the food store and found that the heard of lettuse i broght last week week when up from 99 cent to a 1.18 so tell me about the index they live on the moon and not in tx or us
i a retrets of dod low gs rat of gs 4 of 32 years
Bailout
Fed FNS Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:17 AM
This roots of this crisis are complex and exact degrees of blame are not easy to pointpoint. Rest assured, all the usual suspects (Repubs/wall St) are clearly guilty but so are pro wall st dems like the clintons, schummer, and bob rubin - the degree of guilt is the tricky part.
That said, the neoliberal economic theory worshipped by most Repubs (and DNC democrats) that Wall St/big business/free markets could best regulate themselves and that the fruit of their innovations and gains would spread downward throughout society has been completely discredited. If not an outright adherant to this philosophy, I was at least somewhat sympathetic for a time. I was wrong, it has obviously been disproved with disasterous results - not just with this immediate crises but over the last few years. Regulation and ENFORCEMENT is and was needed. Also, a great deal of the profit/productivity increases brought by globalization in the past 20 years or so have not helped the U.S. middle class at all.
Let it Ride, the pain will only get worse
computer programmer/analyst SSA in BALTIMORE, Md. Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:21 AM
A computer programmer/analyst with SSA in BALTIMORE, Md. says to let the financial institutions fail: "The last thing we, the taxpayers need, is to assume the debt of these lenders. They took the risk, they should take the loss. The economy will eventually take care of itself. This whole rescue plan is based on a golden parachute for the economics of the Bush legacy."
Re: Let it Ride, the pain will only get worse
Diversity Manager DOL Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:27 PM
That's not correct, Bill Clinton said this weekend that the Dem's had to be sure that the legislation that was being discussed didn't change the down payment requirements that he other Dem's put in place. This is 1 of the under lying causes for this disaster.
Couple that with Osama credentials as a community organize that held banks hostage in return for loans that were destined for failure. Raines was the guy while funneling huge sums to Osama and Dodds that said that these bundled loans were as good as gold and only needed a 2% reserve for losses. Just as he collect huge bonuses by meeting the earning target down to the mil, not to the penny but to the mil.
WHAT WAS THE FDIC DOING DURING THIS TIME??
Training USMC Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:52 AM
The FDIC is suppose to audit and monitor the banks and financial orgs.
In this case they did not do there job.
WHen I tried to get a load 20 years ago, 15 years ago, and ten years ago.
I had to fight with the banks and Mortgage Companies (and they were telling us - that we were were not qualified) to get a house loan, and my husband and I were making good money with no bills.
It has come to the point now where anyone can get a mortgage or loan.
So the FDIC was not doing a good job and not monitoring the banks and mortgage companies during this time frame.
I blame the realtors and the mortgage companies for getting greed.
No I do not think we should bail out anyone.
They have no plan on how to do a bail out and they will just make the same mistake again.
I Lee COCOA had a plan for the car loan and how to get back on track with the car system.
These AIG people have NO plan.
This is a case of - Some good old boy needs a handout.
Re: WHAT WAS THE FDIC DOING DURING THIS TIME??
Worker DoD Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:20 AM
I blame the politicians for legislation that caused this issue. Members like B. Frank and C. Dodd specifically stated that there was no problem when the issue was brought up. Now they are running around pointing fingers at everyone but themselves. Don't take me wrong, the Republicans and Democrats are equally guilty of this mess. Too bad they won't stand up and admit it.
TSP into the Real Estate market
HR Specialist IRS Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:52 AM
How about a follow up on just who those legislative members were who were trying to railroad the TSP into a Real Estate fund.
Let's find out who would have been the most to profit, or would that infusion of TSP money into the Real Estate markets held it afloat for a few more months to a year.
Can you image the hit the TSP would have taken had we been forced to add that option to the TSP profile of investment options? With all the Real Estate & govt. hype, I am sure many Federal employee's would have moved into that fund.
I thank those who are in charge of managing our TSP accounts, Thankful that they didn't allow congress to railroad us into something some lobbists had almost got his hook into.
Bailout
Quality Assurance Manager NAWCAD Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:02 AM
As I see it the people who have lived within their means will now have to bailout the people who we have now watched for years live in Mcmansions with all the toys and vacations. Why doesn't the government grant 50 year mortgages and let these people pay their debts or move! The public needs to see the real culprits (big business) brought to justice and seize their assets in lieu of a bailout.
Re: Bailout
Worker DoD Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:14 AM
The culprit is more than just big business. You forgot the individual homeowners and Congress. They all played a part in the mess and the homeowners and Congress are the biggest offenders.
Bailouts and the Blame
Retire US Coast Guard Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:21 PM
How can we guarentee that there will NOT be any "Golden Parachutes"? Who will make sure this doesn't happen?
I don't trust the large businesses, that pay millions in bonuses and then file bankruptcy.
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
Worker DoD Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:21 AM
I don't trust Congress to do the right thing. I think they will act in their own self interests.
Enough Blame to go around
Forester Forest Service Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:24 PM
I'm sick and tired of hearing one political party blast the other, and sitting Administrations, for the ills that face us. I've seen elementary school kids work together better than Congress. It has squandered numerous opportunities to head off the present crisis over the last 8 - 12 years, and has failed miserably. It's time for the members to put aside their pitiful bickering and start doing what we all collectively pay them to do - pass legislation for the best interests of the country, not themselves and their selfish interests. Grow up and start working together with the interest of the nation or we will all most certainly suffer more serious economic consequences, such as in the 1930's.
Re: Enough Blame to go around
Worker DoD Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:22 AM
Amen to that!
Pelosi inflames partisanship
Supervisor doj Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:36 AM
Regardless of whether or not she affected the vote Monday there is no excuse for the SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE to publicly insult the other side of the aisle right before one of the most important votes in a very long time.
Washington is divisive enough these days and for her to make a speech that serves NO PURPOSE other than inflame partisan tempers at a time like this is completely unacceptable. Regardless of anybody's political leanings it should be obvious that her partisan rant at this particular time was way out of line.
Who got it right?
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:22 AM
It seems the Sweden actually found its way out of a similiar situation with similiar causes.
It was an incredibly childish act for Pelosi to taunt the people she needed if she wanted that bill passed. One must wonder if the speech was intended to make sure this particular bill did not pass with her able to "blame" the Republicans? Or, was it the ravings of an unstable person? Either way, it frightens me that she has such a position of power.
I think enough people communicated their distress at bailing out those who got rich in this disaster that their representatives voted accordingly. Most people want their "Pound of flesh." (I do, too!), and something other than a knee-jerk reaction.
I hope this link survives the posting process as Mr. Dougherty, Sept 22, NY Times, calmly gave us a way out that has worked before.
BAILOUT
Base Information Security Manager USAF/DOD Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:16 AM
My wife and I disapprove of the current bailout program. We firmly believe that the CEO's and their staff should be held responsible financially in their misguiding, irresponsible actions. NO GOLDEN umbrella or special incentives should be given to any CEO and their staff. Both Congress (for not regulating specific requirements to company with: ceiling for CEO's and staff benefits and control of limits to borrowing, lending, etc.) and mortgage companies are to blame.
Blame for the crisis
IT Specialist Social Security Administration Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:10 AM
From your article:
others see the situation as an inevitable result of affirmative action in giving out loans as a result of government pressure on companies to grant loans to unqualified people
Someone should go back and look at HISTORY. This was really started by President Carter and President Clinton.
Re: Blame for the crisis
Worker VA Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:18 AM
If people had been treated equally and fairly, affirmative action would have no place in our history. Therefore, everyone who contributed to the decline of the country, up to and including those who participated in segregation, racism, etc., should now foot the bill for the wrong-doing. Remember, your past always comes back to haunt you, you and you.
Placing Blame
fed doi Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:38 AM
Somehow most of you forgot that during the Clinton administration we had Republican congress. And the current democratic congress is in"charge" only two years
Re: Placing Blame
analyst dod Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:55 PM
likewise, you forgot that the minority party in congress is quite capable of blocking legislation that doesn't jive with their political agenda through a myriad of procedural manuevers.
Bailouts and Blame
Health Education Specialist CDC Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:51 AM
Bush has culpability but it is Congress who should bear the blame, they had and have oversight. Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid are the ring leaders. Congress, both Democrat and Republican need to be replaced in the next election.
I am not in favor of the bailout and prefer an alternative like insuring the banks.
Where are our statesman?
Accontant DoD Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:21 AM
Do you really believe the dems are without any blame in this fiasco? If so, I have a bridge to sell you. Let's look at the fact that tomorrow's workers will not be able to keep funding social security, medicare, medicaid, etc. at its current levels. Why? Because the government has been on a spending spree that no drunken sailor could duplicate. Our elected officials are a bunch of pussies. If you can't elect an individual who will be honest and live within their means then you are the reason we have children running this country. I am including dems/repubs/inden in this class of useless pieces of garbage.
bail out
American work force Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:57 AM
No more foreign aid to any country that is not with us and our beliefs. Look at rosevelt speech at arlington cementary the words SO HELP US GOD Were DELETED. If you bail one whose next let the chips fall were they may. Close our borders, put the illegals out one, the next they are caught in this country bury them here. This will end the problem of border crossing, after the first time you have know excuse for the second time you know the end results. Taxes would be paid by those that do it legal. (PROBLEM SOLVE ON THIS ISSUE) border patrol needs the right to shoot to kill any one trying to cross the border.
baik out
ret CSRS ret dod of us airforce Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:04 PM
the eco sure not get 11 Bs dollars ret package and we the people get the bills its not my flase they bought 100.000 house and knew they could paid for on a income of 69,000 a year and i live on a 1680.00 ret and after heath ins and yaxes are get out i take home 1333 a month not right is it !!!!!! mad person ret/dod of 32 years gs 4
Re: baik out
Worker VA Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:44 PM
If you insist on posting to this commentary, PLEASE spell so that your comments make sense. No wonder you retired GS-4 after 32 years. They couldn't understand you.
Bail Out
Robert J. Carr Treasury Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:57 PM
Give the qualified taxpayers a percentage of the proposed funds rather then giving it to Wall Street!
I believe it is called a dividend on the amount invested!
Re: Bail Out
Supervisor doj Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:53 PM
The math on that works out to less than one car payment per US citizen 18 years old or older. Nice idea but it won't solve the problem.
Bailouts and Blame
HIPAA Privacy Officer Department of the Air Force Wed Oct 1, 2008 4:03 PM
If you study the history of what happend you would know that President Cliniton signed legislation to ease loan requirements in 1997. He appointed people to Fannie Mae who commited massive fraud while running Fannie Mae. Democrats blocked legislation introduced by John McCain in 2005 to prevent this problem. Obviously the democrats are to blame.
Re: Bailouts and Blame
analyst dod Wed Oct 1, 2008 5:52 PM
Another bit of historical fact - The Bush Administration warned Congress that they needed to do something about Fannie May and Freddie Mac in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007 and 2008. He continually called for oversight and regulation specifically because he saw this coming.
Because of special interest influence on both sides of the aisle Congress didn't respond until now.. too bad it took a major disaster to get any action.
Bailout
Specialist Army Corps of Engineers Thu Oct 2, 2008 7:24 PM
To hell with wall street.
Let wall street look toward the rest of the U.S.
For too long we the people have had them look
down their noses at us. They need to adjust their
attitude.
Most of us don't even have "Portfolios." They have
trashed our country with abandon. Nobody, repeat
nobody, would "bail" me out under like circumstances.
I would suffer the consequenses, no matter how
severe. Let them lose their homes and jobs, move
to tent city, declare bankruptcy. They are good at
bankruptcy because they are morally bankrupt. It
should be a breeze for them.
We the people have suffered long enough! Enough!
Italian people have a saying for it, "BASTA."....
Re: Bailout
IT Spec DOD Fri Oct 3, 2008 4:05 PM
"Most of us don't even have "Portfolios." "
You're wrong. Most people have an IRA or a 401K type plan or both. These instruments contain guess what? That's right... stock and bond portfolios! Whether or not they're inside or outside a retirement plan doesn't change the fact that they are indeed portfolios.
AIG
Manager DOD Wed Oct 8, 2008 11:13 AM
What is congress going to do about AIG using their bailout monies to take their employees to a $440K SPA vacation? We have taxpayer in my tax living in their cars. Standing on the corners with signs because they no longer have homes or jobs.
Re: AIG
analyst DOD Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:28 PM
Probably not much. Congress has seen this coming for the past decade but sat on their hands doing nothing until it was practically too late.
Bailouts and Blame
accountant doi Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:39 PM
TSA from Denton
"forcing banks...under duress...to make loans....
I have yet to see anyone in those institutions have their "hands cuffed" and told YOU WILL GIVE THIS LOAN..
You sound like IT IS NOT MY FAULT THAT I GOT THIS LOAN, I DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT I WAS SIGNING...
Individuals homebuyers are responsible for getting these loans, and n one is making them to take it either.
Personnal responsibility is something which has vanished
Re: Bailouts and Blame
IT Spec dod Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:58 PM
accountant, that's just about what happened. While not overt pressure in all capital letters such as your post so dramatically shows, there was pressure. It started with the community reinvestment act in 1977 and got worse in the 90s.
Bailouts and the Blame
Dept of Air Force
Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:09 AM
After further research, I now know it was Congress and the Clinton Administration that caused this problem, by forcing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to provide low cost, high risk loans to low income people. Forcing these financial institutions to allow the following as valid income sources: overtime and part–time work, second jobs (including seasonal work), retirement and Social Security income, alimony, child support, Veterans Administration (VA) benefits, welfare payments, and unemployment benefits - is not sound business. The government should stay out of business.
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
IRS
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:06 AM
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
Federal Agency
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:41 AM
While the banks and lenders carry some blame, I personally believe that any idiot who borrowed money for a home loan and knew they would be strapped with monthly finances is to blame. It's time to go back to teaching people to balance their own budgets - that is not the government's job! Nor is it my responsibility as a citizen to pay for the idiotic decisions of those who bought and really could not afford to. Remember, credit is good but you still have to pay the bills. Look around on any given weekend and see the number of people at shopping malls with credit cards in hand! Wake up Americans!
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
DOD
Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:25 PM
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
Inner Sanctum
Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:26 PM
Or, you are saying only RETIRED Republicans are not at risk.
Get real.
The blame is on the mortgage companies, the past 8 years of this Administration, and MAVERICKs that are against regulation and are out to de-reg, like that comic duo, DEREG and PITBULL RED.
and GREED, found in some of the finest GOP closets around.
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
DOD
Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:18 AM
You got a few things crystal clear & correct. You are missing big sections however, too numerous to list here. This is a more complex nightmare!!
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
DoD
Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:07 AM
Something needs to be done
OPM
Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:19 AM
Regardless of who is to blame, Congress and the Administration need to do something. Perhaps they can negotiate the 700 billion dollars down to something that will make everyone happy. They should not wait for the next President to clean this up.
Why not blame the borrowers?
DoD
Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:22 AM
Hardly any of the survey responses address the fact that many of these borrowers are responsible for this mess! When my family went to buy a house five years ago, we had done our homework. We realized how much equity we had in our current home, figured out how much of a down payment we'd need, and bought a house WITHIN OUR MEANS at a reasonable rate. I know so many who bought a house under an adjustable mortgage rate - which, unless you KNOW you're going to be making more money in the future is, I'm sorry, just stupid. Others bought way more home than they could afford. Yes, lenders probably duped them, but if you don't have a firm idea what your budget is before you go house hunting, you are also largely responsible if your home then goes into foreclosure ... that's the harsh truth of the situation.
Re: Why not blame the borrowers?
DOI
Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:47 AM
Like you, I flat refused to mortgage myself up to eyeballs for a particular house, when I could (and did) find a nicer one for thousands less than most were priced in my area.
Re: Why not blame the borrowers?
Federal Agency
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:49 AM
I believe we each must be fiscally responsible for our ownselves. It's not the government's job nor the taxpayers responsibility to take care of you.
Placing Blame
FAA
Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:23 AM
I think it is interesting that some folks blame the Bush Administartion for these problems. This was caused initially buy acts of the government in 1999 (hint Bill Clinton was president).
There is some blame to be had by the lending companies but the largest blame should fall on the irresponsible borrowers. They bought more than they could afford and most of them did it knowing it could end badly. What ever has happened to personally responsibility. We need to take the responsibility for our actions both good and bad. Our country has changed to trying to find someone else to blame for our own mistakes.
Have some personal accountability and stop blaming everyone else.
Re: Placing Blame
FAA
Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:36 AM
Personal responsibility, that's hilarious coming from a FAA supervisor, "safety was never compromised"
Re: Placing Blame
dod
Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:29 AM
Federal Reserve System at fault
DOI/National Park Service
Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:23 AM
We are in this crisis because of an excess of artificially created credit at the hands of the Federal Reserve System. The solution being proposed? More artificial credit by the Federal Reserve. No liquidation of bad debt and malinvestment is to be allowed. By doing more of the same, we will only continue and intensify the distortions in our economy - all the capital misallocation, all the malinvestment - and prevent the market's attempt to re-establish rational pricing of houses and other assets.
We are told that "low interest rates" led to excessive borrowing, but we are not told how these low interest rates came about. They were a deliberate policy of the Federal Reserve. As always, artificially low interest rates distort the market. Entrepreneurs engage in malinvestments - investments that do not make sense in light of current resource availability, that occur in more temporally remote stages of the capital structure than the pattern of consumer demand can support.
Check out the Glass-Stegall repeal of 1999
Army
Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:26 AM
This started with the CLINTON administration!
On November 13, 1999, President Clinton signed into effect a "sweeping overhaul of the Depression-era banking laws" The measure lifts barriers in the industry and allows banks, securities firms and insurance companies to merge and sell each other's products.
Lehman Brothers got a taste of Glass-Stegall on Sunday 14 Sept 2008. Their demise after 156 years is a direct result.
Re: Check out the Glass-Stegall repeal of 1999
Bureaucracy
Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:45 AM
Bail Out
VHA
Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:26 AM
I am against the Bail Out. My question is how long does the bail out prevent the onset of recession? The economy runs in cycles. Will we eventually have a recession regardless? Are we just putting it off?
An yes, Iam with many Americans. Why do help these companies? Why not help the citizens that they have broke the backs of? Yea we can say it is the fault of the people who took out the loans but... come on I think they we snuckered. Yea ago my husband and refinanced our home with a floating balance. I changed that in a hurry once I figured it out. We are not all market or finance genuises. These companies snuckered thsese people just like my husband and I were snuckered.
Let the companies suffer their peril.
THE BLAME
SSA
Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:35 AM
I think it is ignorance that makes folks blame the Bush Administration for the mess. Bush and several Republican Senators tried from 2001 on the get more oversight of Fannie and Freddie and Barney Franks in the House and his counterpart in the Senate fought it tooth and nail and now "the honorable?" Mr. Franks is trying to shift all the blame to someone else...but the old video of his opposition doesn't lie. The blame clearly should be at the feet of Congress and particularly the ones who made the loaning practices of Fannie and Freddie a mockery.
Re: THE BLAME
DOD
Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:11 PM
Re: THE BLAME
DoD
Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:16 PM
Your response, while emotionally understandable is a knee jerk reaction that doesn't hold up to a critical examination of the facts.
Bailout
FAA
Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:45 AM
Here's an idea. Instead of giving $700 billion plus to the mortgage companies and such, why don't we just payoff all of our home loans with that money and call it even?
Re: Bailout
Federal Agency
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:52 AM
I don't agree with the bail out, nor do I agree that the money should pay off the foreclosed homes. Doing so hurts taxpayers who are PAYING their bills and who used common sense when they purchased homes - they bought within their means!
Who Is Responsible?
DoD
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:06 AM
Patrick Leahy lead the effort to force banks and lending institutions give sub-prime mortgages to those who did not qualify for such loans under the existing guidelines. Although this was a noble sentiment, it has proven to be fiscally reckless. It is untrue and unfair to totally blame the executive branch for the laws passed by the legislative branch. The action available once Congress passed the law was for the President to veto it; this too may have been useless as there probably enough support to override the veto. As for the rescue plan, we must act now; I do not know what the right answer is but the longer we wait, the worse it will get.
Bailouts and Blame
Defense Contracts Management Agency
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:10 AM
What more can I add? I agree with the feelings expressed by the supervisor with Customs and Border Protection in Eureka, Montana and the contracts manager with NASA in Huntsville, AL. Those of us who acted responsibly throughout our lives should not have to pay for those who are not! Does anyone recollect the fable about the Ant and The Grasshopper?
I will agree with the program manager from the Dept. of Commerce in Washington in seeking remedy as taxpayers if we DO have to bail out the system.
Re: Bailouts and Blame
VA
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:26 AM
Hello
U S P S
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:13 AM
The undecided HELLO are you alive in there. Or is the sawdust getting in the way.
Re: Hello
Postal service
Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:33 AM
Re: Hello
DOD
Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:35 PM
So, I hope, (I do, I do, I do,) that congress and the president and the banking wizards all do something that will be historic in its ability to turn around this situation.
Alas, I fear they will simply continue to make their political and commercial buddies rich.
Therefore, this sawdust-filled head cannot tell yet if a bailout is a good idea or not.
Root Causes
IRS
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:18 AM
I think that one of the root causes of this problem can be traced back to the decline of the educational system in this country. People have lost the ability to analyze situations and arrive at rational appropriate decisions and solutions i.e. individuals and the government can't keep spending more money than they have earned, or in the case of government have taxed the citizenry. This should have been intuitive to individuals with analytical abilities. The second root problem is the decline in moral values in this country and the western world. Whatever happened to honesty and running a business that has ethics standards? Far too many people merely mouth the mantras of their chosen political party.
Re: Root Causes
Federal Agency
Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:19 PM
Re: Root Causes
DoD
Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:24 AM
Home Ownership
HUD
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:21 AM
Home ownership is not for everyone. It should be reserved only for those with proven good credit, those that have saved money for a down payment and the ability to pay around 30% of their monthly income for housing. There should be no shame in renting a house or apt. if you are personally not there. The administration crammed homeownership down everyone's throat as the right thing for ALL americans and worked backward from there by making it too easy and available to those that should rent and be happy.
Re: Home Ownership
DoD
Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:57 AM
Clinton wasn't responsible
DOE
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:26 AM
Clinton could not veto the bill - it was "veto proof"(From Wiki):
"The bill that ultimately repealed the Act was introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (R-TX) and in the House of Representatives by James Leach (R-IA) in 1999. The bills were passed by a 54-44 vote along party lines with Republican support in the Senate[7] and by a 343-86 vote in the House of Representatives[8]. Nov 4, 1999: After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. The final bipartisan bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90-8-1 and in the House: 362-57-15. Without forcing a veto vote, this bipartisan, veto proof legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999."
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
DOD
Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:49 PM
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
Inner Sanctum
Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:17 PM
So there...
Bunch of whiners.
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
DOD
Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:11 PM
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
DOL
Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:30 PM
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
doe
Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:12 PM
This is the kind of partisan crap that is getting in the way of a solution. This situation has been festering for many years and it's ridiculous to lay the blame at only one politcal party or institution.
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
DOL
Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:53 PM
Re: Clinton wasn't responsible
doe
Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:00 PM
The poster I responded to is trying to assert that this problem is all due to one political party. With me so far?
Now that's obviously ridiculous, this situation had its roots back in the mid 90s and politicians from both sides have been aware of it ever since. They've all had countless opportunities to address it ever since and they haven't until now.
Clear enough for you?
Bailout
US Army Corps of Engineers
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:28 AM
Why wasn't a survey bullet point added to blame the Clinton Administration? It was during his administration in 1997 that the Tax Relief Act of 1997 was passed which created the tax-payer backed agencies which caused this housing bubble and subsequent crisis.
Borrowers/Lending Institutions
I.R.S.
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:29 AM
The borrowers and the lending instutions are both to blame. When my husband and I were looking for a home, the bank told us, "The bad news is you don't qualify for a $500,00.00 home. The good news is, you qualify for a $450,000.00 home." We told them outright , "The bad news for you is that we were not going to buy anything over $200,000.00. We had done our homework and knew what we could be comfortable with with a built in cushion for unexpected expenditures.
When my husband lost his job 4 years ago, we could afford our home with a little belt tightening until he found a new job. This generation is the "Now" generation -- must have it all NOW! What's wrong with starting small and trading up like we did?
BAIL OUT
USDC/SDNY
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:33 AM
The PREZ is in 4 or 8 years. Congress however controls and manipulates the system...they are the Legislatures. Corruption is rampent throughout the system. V.A. and other GOVT agencies require oversight and must beg for their budget! How come MEDICAID, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac required NO SUCH OVERSITE yet they had Congressional Charters??
We should adopt the ancient Roman System....they (Congress & Senate) should serve as an honor and not be paid!
Re: BAIL OUT
DOD
Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:51 PM
Fire Sale
Homeland Security
Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:36 AM
Should the bail out occur, let's hope that the "fire sale" will be watched over for the next seven years. Individuals who would refinance their home should not be able to capitalize within the first seven years of the loan. Example: You refi today for the re-evaluated price of your home which is far less than your mortgage; and the balance of your old mortgage is wiped away by the bail out. If within or less than seven years down the road, you decide to sell and because NOW the home has valuated extremely well especially since your NEW mortgage balance is much less than original, you make a huge profit. Who's profit is it; yours or the governments? If we are to have faith again in our lending institutions, a plan DEFINITELY needs to be in place OR we'll be in the same muck all over again! I vote YES to the bail out with long term provisions NOT short term ones.
Help for Main Street
USAF
Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:37 AM
I am against the bail out for the same reasons as stated above. I want to see the first Politian that can look me in the eye and tell me we cannot fix Social Security. That would really help the Taxpayer.
Clinton
USDA
Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:22 PM
Oh boy! Oh boy! Something else to blame on Clinton - yippy!!
Re: Clinton
DFAS
Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:19 PM
Take it from someone who used to be conservative, folks--conservatives are incapable of governing. It is not a viable philosophy.
Re: Clinton
dod
Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:36 AM
This sort of one sided nonsense is part of the problem. To say one side of the aisle is incapable of governing is unbelievably naive.
Bailout
DOL
Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:24 PM
The congress needs to take decisive action. The CR that is moving thru congress needs to be vetoed. We can't afford a 3.9% wage hike for CS. It needs to be taken from the proposal and wages need to be frozen for 5 years
Re: Bailout
worker
Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:01 PM
Re: Bailout
DOD
Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:14 PM
Lack of regulation to blame
US Air Force
Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:24 PM
Fed Smith failed to print my comment so I will make it here-- Everyone, especially Texas' Bush knew this was comming but all of government failed to regulate the lenders. This exact thing happened in South Texas in the 1980s. The bubble burst, people walked away from houses, home values fell as properties were sold at auction and all "Savings and Loan" were bankrupted. Why didn't government learn from history? The entire country has been talking about the bubble bursting for years--so why was there no legislation to put some controls on the greedy banking/investment community? This bailout must come with some federal control over the people who made the bad loans and got rich doing it!
blame and bailout
dod
Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:10 PM
The persons to blame are the real estate brokers, the mortgage bankers and brokers. It is their greed that put us in this situation. The realtors saw a possible sale of a house. They did not care that the person wanting to buy was looking for something too big for their pocketbook and could not afford the monthly payments. They worked with the mortgage brokers and bankers to find some kind of a deal that could pass the underwriters. Was it a sound deal. Of course not. As soon as I saw interest only loans being offered as a matter of course I saw this situation coming.... years ago. Arms are just as bad if you are not prepared to refinance before the arm is up. I know the realitors and the mortgage brokers and bankers don't give their clients an class in economics when they sign these contracts. They just run to the bank to cash their commission chekcs before the forclosure hits. The bail out should be paid for by each an every realtor, broker and banker personally who was involved.
Re: blame and bailout
DoD
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:06 AM
Re: blame and bailout
Federal Agency
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:52 AM
What Conspiracy
Bureau of Prisons
Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:35 PM
There is no conspiracy afoot. Only foul play and deception. It is the financial investment groups playing chicken little and screaming that the sky is falling. As of right now, the public has 5 Trillion dollars safely tucked away in money market accts, patiently waiting on the sidelines for a correction in the market. Heck, the hedge funds have an additional 70 billion in CASH sitting on the sidelines. So yes, the capital and liquidity is there! When the tech bubble (remember the phrase "venture capital!) burst in 02 nobody was screaming that the economy was going bust. But now that the big financial companies are going to have to face a shakeout due to their own greed, their all on the same page screaming economic crisis. I say let em fail. You don't see the prudent investment firms (ING, Smith-Barney, etc) proclaiming the end of civilization. Congress and the gov't are being duped into believing that a so-called economic crisis exists!!!!!
Has anyone really done the math?
Forest Service
Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:49 PM
It's impossible for me to get a handle on what 85 billion of anything let alone dollars looks like. There's a site you can go to where someone has done the math. >Interesting thought giving the money to the people but of course that will never happen. The next time some politico throws around the word billions you just might want to drag out the calculator.
Bailout
Department of Energy
Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:54 PM
Congress is going to pass a bill in less than a week???
They can't even pass a budget in 12 months.
Let us talk about "bailout". How about 30,000 feet up and no parachute for any of the money lenders.
Re: Bailout
Small College
Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:47 AM
Attributed to Alexander Fraser Tyler (Lord Woodhouselee), authorshp actually unknown.
How Did We Get Into This Mess In The First Place
DoC
Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:28 AM
If you want to be educated about our financial mess, watch this video. If you don't believe it, then do your own research and look up the assertions made and documented in the fast-moving video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o
Bailout
KyARNG
Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:44 AM
My thoughts are this; The bailout should occur to save us from a severe recession or depression. However, the following CONDITIONS should be met by each company named in the bailout; cease all bonus compensations for ALL employees, CEO's and board members; review all salaries of chief and board executives for possible reductions AND force companies into a contract to pay back America for their bailout (at an interest rate they charge their typical customer, which is an interesting thought in itself).
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
Re: Bailout
DOL
Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:59 PM
In addition all Fed pay and bonuses need to be frozen as well to show the country our resolve
Economic situation
DOD
Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:07 AM
I think it's an error to look at the current problems are being solely the result of the mortgage situation. A lot of things have been going on for some time which have snowballed to cause this. The phone company was deregulated, and now the cost is higher and the service worse; taxes were replaced by "fees" of various types which, in the aggregate, are probably higher than the taxes would have been. You really do need to be careful what you ask for.
The biggest single factor is greed. In the 19th century, a lot of "sharp practices" were allowed that were later supressed by legal and social change. We have now moved back toward the robber-baron era.
No Bail Out
DOT
Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:24 PM
When is America going to get back to the basic concept of consequences for your actions? Bad mortgages were encouraged by lenders who lowered their standards to make money. The real problem is the individual who cannot do the math required to know his/her $65,000 income will not allow him to refinance his/her house for $400K just because it is valued at that. People think that what ever the internet or real estate executive tells them is truth. IN reality it is what the market can stand and it fell hard! Find the CEO who took millions from these companies who are now defunct and make them pay. The poor soul on the bottom of the chain with an outstanding mortgage. I'm sorry, learn from mistakes and move on. This is America and you can be prosperous again. Take responsibility for yourself and stop asking for my TAX DOLLARS!
Just for those who are open to the truth.
DoD
Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:47 AM
Although facts are not as much fun as name calling and it is incredibly difficult for some to look beyond their hatred, the people who do prefer facts will find these useful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiEWCnpNnBQ&NR=1
Expose those who were responsible
US Army Corps of Engineers
Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:04 AM
All politician responsible for creating this mess should be exposed so that we know who not to vote in the next election. They are the ones who legalized "EXTORTION."
I honestly believe that this process is fair.
Re: Expose those who were responsible
DoD
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:16 AM
Who's to blame
DOL
Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:56 PM
Admin it is now but I suggest that you go back and read your post its says the republicans were responsible. Hopefully you just type and don't compose
2005 bill to increase regulation
VAMC
Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:09 AM
I became very angry when I read this week that Congress had a chance to avert this crisis in 2005. When Franklin Rains, the CEO of Fannie Mae until being fired in 2004, left they found out that he had been doctoring the books to increase his bonuses!!! Instead of passing increased regulation/oversight with the 2005 bill, Congress voted it down. Congress enjoyed getting people into houses. They are a bunch of lawyers for the most part that have never owned or run a business. All they care aobut is getting re-elected. I have had it with those that are "serving me" right now. I would like to tell them all what I think they have been serving me.
Re: 2005 bill to increase regulation
Small College
Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:08 AM
Bailout
IRS
Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:46 AM
I beleive that we will have to bail out the financial instituions, but not to their expectations.
We need to send them packing with no dollars or maybe their months servence pay.
The ones thay gave bad loans to are out in the street, so why should be line the pockets of those executives out of our tax dollars. We are having a hard enough time of surving on what little we make as it is.
Not SEND THEM PACKING AND LITTLE OR NO FUNDS TO LINE THEIR POCKETS. LET THEM PAY FOR THEIR MISTAKES AND BAD DECISIONS. If any other company or private industry makes bad decisions, they are not compensated for their failure.
Most of the companies of this country have gone money hungrey, including the federal, state & county governments. They think they have to have all the best at the peoples expense.
Also, this country in no longer run by the people.
What happened to "BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE.
Also, IN GOD WE TRUST. Lets go back to the basic.
Use no name please
Thanks
National debt-Bailouts
usda-nrcs
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:22 AM
The current monetary situation in this country is an absolute disgrace. Out of control greedy, dishonest wall street bankers and mortgage companies; out of control federal spending. Our gigantic national debt is being financed largely by Red China, a communist nation and Saudi Arabia, a muslim country with a component of active radicals. Some day our enslaved impoverished ancestors will look down on the gravestone of the great nation we once were and read, "Killed by its own Greed and Ignorance"
Re: National debt-Bailouts
Federal Agency
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:57 AM
While spending money helps the economy, it only helps if you are not using credit to do so.
We all need to live within our means!
What about Me
US Army Civilian
Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:59 AM
I've had to relocate for employment and due to this "crisis" my home hasn't sold. Where is my bail-out? I think if a Bail-out is put in place it should go to the legitimate consumers who are just trying to make it rather than the idiots who made irresponsible decisions with no regard to their investors or the economy. What percentage of this $700 Billion will help me?
COLA
ret dod of us airforce
Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:07 AM
cola count retrects with one month to go for Jan 2009 federal retiement COLA, the count stand at 6 percent. following a drop of .05 percent in August in the inflation index to detnine that adjustment. I dont know where they are getting information i when to the food store and found that the heard of lettuse i broght last week week when up from 99 cent to a 1.18 so tell me about the index they live on the moon and not in tx or us
i a retrets of dod low gs rat of gs 4 of 32 years
Bailout
FNS
Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:17 AM
This roots of this crisis are complex and exact degrees of blame are not easy to pointpoint. Rest assured, all the usual suspects (Repubs/wall St) are clearly guilty but so are pro wall st dems like the clintons, schummer, and bob rubin - the degree of guilt is the tricky part.
That said, the neoliberal economic theory worshipped by most Repubs (and DNC democrats) that Wall St/big business/free markets could best regulate themselves and that the fruit of their innovations and gains would spread downward throughout society has been completely discredited. If not an outright adherant to this philosophy, I was at least somewhat sympathetic for a time. I was wrong, it has obviously been disproved with disasterous results - not just with this immediate crises but over the last few years. Regulation and ENFORCEMENT is and was needed. Also, a great deal of the profit/productivity increases brought by globalization in the past 20 years or so have not helped the U.S. middle class at all.
Let it Ride, the pain will only get worse
SSA in BALTIMORE, Md.
Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:21 AM
A computer programmer/analyst with SSA in BALTIMORE, Md. says to let the financial institutions fail: "The last thing we, the taxpayers need, is to assume the debt of these lenders. They took the risk, they should take the loss. The economy will eventually take care of itself. This whole rescue plan is based on a golden parachute for the economics of the Bush legacy."
Re: Let it Ride, the pain will only get worse
DOL
Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:27 PM
Couple that with Osama credentials as a community organize that held banks hostage in return for loans that were destined for failure. Raines was the guy while funneling huge sums to Osama and Dodds that said that these bundled loans were as good as gold and only needed a 2% reserve for losses. Just as he collect huge bonuses by meeting the earning target down to the mil, not to the penny but to the mil.
WHAT WAS THE FDIC DOING DURING THIS TIME??
USMC
Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:52 AM
The FDIC is suppose to audit and monitor the banks and financial orgs.
In this case they did not do there job.
WHen I tried to get a load 20 years ago, 15 years ago, and ten years ago.
I had to fight with the banks and Mortgage Companies (and they were telling us - that we were were not qualified) to get a house loan, and my husband and I were making good money with no bills.
It has come to the point now where anyone can get a mortgage or loan.
So the FDIC was not doing a good job and not monitoring the banks and mortgage companies during this time frame.
I blame the realtors and the mortgage companies for getting greed.
No I do not think we should bail out anyone.
They have no plan on how to do a bail out and they will just make the same mistake again.
I Lee COCOA had a plan for the car loan and how to get back on track with the car system.
These AIG people have NO plan.
This is a case of - Some good old boy needs a handout.
Re: WHAT WAS THE FDIC DOING DURING THIS TIME??
DoD
Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:20 AM
TSP into the Real Estate market
IRS
Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:52 AM
How about a follow up on just who those legislative members were who were trying to railroad the TSP into a Real Estate fund.
Let's find out who would have been the most to profit, or would that infusion of TSP money into the Real Estate markets held it afloat for a few more months to a year.
Can you image the hit the TSP would have taken had we been forced to add that option to the TSP profile of investment options? With all the Real Estate & govt. hype, I am sure many Federal employee's would have moved into that fund.
I thank those who are in charge of managing our TSP accounts, Thankful that they didn't allow congress to railroad us into something some lobbists had almost got his hook into.
Bailout
NAWCAD
Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:02 AM
As I see it the people who have lived within their means will now have to bailout the people who we have now watched for years live in Mcmansions with all the toys and vacations. Why doesn't the government grant 50 year mortgages and let these people pay their debts or move! The public needs to see the real culprits (big business) brought to justice and seize their assets in lieu of a bailout.
Re: Bailout
DoD
Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:14 AM
Bailouts and the Blame
US Coast Guard
Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:21 PM
How can we guarentee that there will NOT be any "Golden Parachutes"? Who will make sure this doesn't happen?
I don't trust the large businesses, that pay millions in bonuses and then file bankruptcy.
Re: Bailouts and the Blame
DoD
Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:21 AM
Enough Blame to go around
Forest Service
Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:24 PM
I'm sick and tired of hearing one political party blast the other, and sitting Administrations, for the ills that face us. I've seen elementary school kids work together better than Congress. It has squandered numerous opportunities to head off the present crisis over the last 8 - 12 years, and has failed miserably. It's time for the members to put aside their pitiful bickering and start doing what we all collectively pay them to do - pass legislation for the best interests of the country, not themselves and their selfish interests. Grow up and start working together with the interest of the nation or we will all most certainly suffer more serious economic consequences, such as in the 1930's.
Re: Enough Blame to go around
DoD
Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:22 AM
Pelosi inflames partisanship
doj
Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:36 AM
Regardless of whether or not she affected the vote Monday there is no excuse for the SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE to publicly insult the other side of the aisle right before one of the most important votes in a very long time.
Washington is divisive enough these days and for her to make a speech that serves NO PURPOSE other than inflame partisan tempers at a time like this is completely unacceptable. Regardless of anybody's political leanings it should be obvious that her partisan rant at this particular time was way out of line.
Who got it right?
DOD
Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:22 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/worldbusiness/23krona.html?ex=1380254400&en=a70a39e48f33b9d5&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
It seems the Sweden actually found its way out of a similiar situation with similiar causes.
It was an incredibly childish act for Pelosi to taunt the people she needed if she wanted that bill passed. One must wonder if the speech was intended to make sure this particular bill did not pass with her able to "blame" the Republicans? Or, was it the ravings of an unstable person? Either way, it frightens me that she has such a position of power.
I think enough people communicated their distress at bailing out those who got rich in this disaster that their representatives voted accordingly. Most people want their "Pound of flesh." (I do, too!), and something other than a knee-jerk reaction.
I hope this link survives the posting process as Mr. Dougherty, Sept 22, NY Times, calmly gave us a way out that has worked before.
BAILOUT
USAF/DOD
Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:16 AM
My wife and I disapprove of the current bailout program. We firmly believe that the CEO's and their staff should be held responsible financially in their misguiding, irresponsible actions. NO GOLDEN umbrella or special incentives should be given to any CEO and their staff. Both Congress (for not regulating specific requirements to company with: ceiling for CEO's and staff benefits and control of limits to borrowing, lending, etc.) and mortgage companies are to blame.
Blame for the crisis
Social Security Administration
Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:10 AM
From your article:
others see the situation as an inevitable result of affirmative action in giving out loans as a result of government pressure on companies to grant loans to unqualified people
Someone should go back and look at HISTORY. This was really started by President Carter and President Clinton.
Re: Blame for the crisis
VA
Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:18 AM
Placing Blame
doi
Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:38 AM
Somehow most of you forgot that during the Clinton administration we had Republican congress. And the current democratic congress is in"charge" only two years
Re: Placing Blame
dod
Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:55 PM
Bailouts and Blame
CDC
Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:51 AM
Bush has culpability but it is Congress who should bear the blame, they had and have oversight. Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid are the ring leaders. Congress, both Democrat and Republican need to be replaced in the next election.
I am not in favor of the bailout and prefer an alternative like insuring the banks.
Where are our statesman?
DoD
Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:21 AM
Do you really believe the dems are without any blame in this fiasco? If so, I have a bridge to sell you. Let's look at the fact that tomorrow's workers will not be able to keep funding social security, medicare, medicaid, etc. at its current levels. Why? Because the government has been on a spending spree that no drunken sailor could duplicate. Our elected officials are a bunch of pussies. If you can't elect an individual who will be honest and live within their means then you are the reason we have children running this country. I am including dems/repubs/inden in this class of useless pieces of garbage.
bail out
work force
Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:57 AM
No more foreign aid to any country that is not with us and our beliefs. Look at rosevelt speech at arlington cementary the words SO HELP US GOD Were DELETED. If you bail one whose next let the chips fall were they may. Close our borders, put the illegals out one, the next they are caught in this country bury them here. This will end the problem of border crossing, after the first time you have know excuse for the second time you know the end results. Taxes would be paid by those that do it legal. (PROBLEM SOLVE ON THIS ISSUE) border patrol needs the right to shoot to kill any one trying to cross the border.
baik out
ret dod of us airforce
Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:04 PM
the eco sure not get 11 Bs dollars ret package and we the people get the bills its not my flase they bought 100.000 house and knew they could paid for on a income of 69,000 a year and i live on a 1680.00 ret and after heath ins and yaxes are get out i take home 1333 a month not right is it !!!!!! mad person ret/dod of 32 years gs 4
Re: baik out
VA
Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:44 PM
Bail Out
Treasury
Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:57 PM
Give the qualified taxpayers a percentage of the proposed funds rather then giving it to Wall Street!
I believe it is called a dividend on the amount invested!
Re: Bail Out
doj
Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:53 PM
Bailouts and Blame
Department of the Air Force
Wed Oct 1, 2008 4:03 PM
If you study the history of what happend you would know that President Cliniton signed legislation to ease loan requirements in 1997. He appointed people to Fannie Mae who commited massive fraud while running Fannie Mae. Democrats blocked legislation introduced by John McCain in 2005 to prevent this problem. Obviously the democrats are to blame.
Re: Bailouts and Blame
dod
Wed Oct 1, 2008 5:52 PM
Because of special interest influence on both sides of the aisle Congress didn't respond until now.. too bad it took a major disaster to get any action.
Bailout
Army Corps of Engineers
Thu Oct 2, 2008 7:24 PM
To hell with wall street.
Let wall street look toward the rest of the U.S.
For too long we the people have had them look
down their noses at us. They need to adjust their
attitude.
Most of us don't even have "Portfolios." They have
trashed our country with abandon. Nobody, repeat
nobody, would "bail" me out under like circumstances.
I would suffer the consequenses, no matter how
severe. Let them lose their homes and jobs, move
to tent city, declare bankruptcy. They are good at
bankruptcy because they are morally bankrupt. It
should be a breeze for them.
We the people have suffered long enough! Enough!
Italian people have a saying for it, "BASTA."....
Re: Bailout
DOD
Fri Oct 3, 2008 4:05 PM
You're wrong. Most people have an IRA or a 401K type plan or both. These instruments contain guess what? That's right... stock and bond portfolios! Whether or not they're inside or outside a retirement plan doesn't change the fact that they are indeed portfolios.
AIG
DOD
Wed Oct 8, 2008 11:13 AM
What is congress going to do about AIG using their bailout monies to take their employees to a $440K SPA vacation? We have taxpayer in my tax living in their cars. Standing on the corners with signs because they no longer have homes or jobs.
Re: AIG
DOD
Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:28 PM
Bailouts and Blame
doi
Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:39 PM
TSA from Denton
"forcing banks...under duress...to make loans....
I have yet to see anyone in those institutions have their "hands cuffed" and told YOU WILL GIVE THIS LOAN..
You sound like IT IS NOT MY FAULT THAT I GOT THIS LOAN, I DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT I WAS SIGNING...
Individuals homebuyers are responsible for getting these loans, and n one is making them to take it either.
Personnal responsibility is something which has vanished
Re: Bailouts and Blame
dod
Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:58 PM