This is definitely a step in the right direction toward creating an environment that focuses on and rewards performance instead of longevity. I came into Federal service two years ago as a GS-13. My manager at the time found that I out-performed all of his GS-14 level staff and attempted to promote me "early". Of couse HR quickly told him NO. I was promoted after one year to a GS-14 and after a year at a GS-14, was recently promoted to a GS-15. The bottom line is that I am a high performer and should have been recognized for my performance without regard to "time-in-grade". This is a good move by OPM. Now if we could just get rid of the GS system all together and move the entire government to pay-for-performance! I look forward to the day! Maybe then we could get rid of all the high-graded (GS-14) slackers that I observe on a daily basis.
Re: A step in the right direction.....
Fly on the wall Outside the beltway Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:34 AM
...or those slackers might now get promoted much quicker!
Re: A step in the right direction.....
Employee One of the Pay For Perf Agencies Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:19 AM
May I suggest that you move to TSA or DOD? That will change your mind.
I am one of the stellar performers and I have been financially rewarded for it but the system is a problem. It is highly subjective, dependent upon the assignments that you receive, your supv's mood..... And you had better keep all that in the forefront or your pay will fall behind the annual adjustment given for GS employees. If you raise an alternative or object to the course your supv has outlined you had better hope that it isn't remembered at appraisal time.
I am hoping that Obama takes us back to the GS system as he has threatened. I have a strong preference for performing well simply because it is who I am, not always running like a rabbit to ensure that I make my supv happy. Plus if a system is going to improve you have to be willing to take chances and this system does not reward innovation; it rewards obedience.
And we don't get rid of the poor performers either.
Re: A step in the right direction.....
HR Specialist No comment Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:28 AM
While this will eliminate time in grade it will not eliminate one year of specialized experience. Therefore, unless you have extensive experience OUTSIDE of the govt service that would be equivalent in complexity etc to the GS level that you currently occupy, the elimination of time in grade won't get you promoted any faster.
Poor performance makes you ineligible for a higher grade and subject to removal; exemplory performance makes you eligible for an award; acceptable performance plus one year of specialized experience will make you eligible for promotion.
Presumably, most people are brought into the govt service at the highest grade that they qualify for.
Faster Promotions
USDA Rural Development Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:50 AM
That is all well and good except when it comes to this Agency. They prefer hiring and promoting individuals from the outside and having the lower grade employees "assist" them.
Re: Faster Promotions
Unhigh on the Food Chain VA Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:50 AM
Are you sure you don't work for VA. Seems to be their policy as well.
Re: Faster Promotions
HR Specialist VA Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:25 AM
USDA, by definition, lower-graded employees are on the payroll to assist higher-graded employees in some manner; their positions do not exist in a vacuum. It doesn't matter whether those higher-graded people are hired from the outside or are promoted up thru the ranks. "Unhigh on the Food Chain", this is not specific to VA, but characteristic of every agency & most likely, most large organizations outside the federal government. The work is either core to the purpose of the organization or it supports the core function; otherwise, it is not necessary & should not be on the payroll.
Re: Faster Promotions
Diversity Manager DOL Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:40 PM
Based on the on going scandals at the VA, it doesn't appear that anyone working there deserves a promotion
Re: Faster Promotions
MFH Loan Tech USDA, Rural Development Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:04 PM
You are right about that..... It is kinda sick in away...
Re: Faster Promotions
Contract Specialist USDA Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:14 AM
In reference to the comment about USDA and how they promote, I always wondered if it was specific department that treated their employees so poorly. They are so stingy when it comes to promoting, they always say, we have no money. But then, 2 people down the hall in IT get their 13's. Working in a field where the decline of Contract Specialists are on the rise, you would think USDA would be interested in retaining their specialists, but instead they prefer kicking them when they are already down. Needless to say, if anyone has any job openings for C.S., I am here! :)
Re: Faster Promotions
Clerk DOI Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:28 AM
"HR from VA":
We understand how the hierarchy works. The point that "USDA Rural Development" makes is that some offices will bring in outsiders for higher grades rather than promote some qualified individuals from within, regardless of what rules are added, removed, or changed. It's another facet of the "buddy system."
Re: Faster Promotions
HR Specialist VA Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:11 PM
DOI Clerk, what difference does it make whether someone is brought in from the outside or promoted from within? Each has a right to compete for the vacancy & an agency should take advantage of the capabilities of BOTH kinds of candidates. The internal hire has the advantage of knowing the organization & the "way things are done here". However, it's often better to go outside for someone who can bring in fresh perspective, "new blood" etc. Your reasoning is specious; if anything, you'd expect a "buddy system" if & where it exists, to favor those "buddies" of the hiring official who are already in the fold, to the detriment of people from the outside. Like some other respondents to this piece, you seem to think that a promotion is something owed by an agency to any and all employees
who've been around awhile. Nothing could be further from the truth. Visit your DOI HR function & get some basic info about your merit promotion program, qual standards & related staffing matters.
Re: Faster Promotions
Immigration Officer CIS Tue Dec 2, 2008 9:17 AM
Speaking as a "combat" (it sure felt like combat at times) veteran of the USDA, with tours in two agencies (APHIS and ARS) I can say that I have seen this so often it's not even funny. A GS-12,13, or 14 scientist who surfs the net all day, attends budget meetings and gets themsselves invited to conferences, with a GS-5,7, or 9 technician who does their scientific works, documents the entire experiment, and writes the paper. The 12/13/14 edits the paper, submits it for puplication, and doesn't even have the decency to list their technician's name or give them any credit. Then this same GS-12/13/14 get's themselves an award for all their valuable research. What does the tech get, a paycheck and they should be happy to get what they have. In fact certain regions of the Agricultural Research Service forbid publication by techs.
Maybe someday they will make rules that allow the people who actually DO the work to get the credit and pay they deserve.
PROMOTIONS
SUPPLY TECH. SUPPLY DEPT NAVY (FISC) Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:11 AM
to whom it may concern i've been a gs-05 since 1989 and i have heard the same excuse on promotions but the managers only promote their
buddies i am also a vietnam vet, if your a vet you get treated like a second class citizen, i want some answers. i 'm attach to one of bases south of andrews afb.
Re: PROMOTIONS
Retiree DoD Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:27 PM
You state that you have been a GS-05 since 1989. Have you pursued necessary training or advanced education that you would help you qualify for higher-graded positions? With all due respect to our veterans, promotions are not solely based upon veteran status - other factors enter into this as well.
Re: PROMOTIONS
Diversity Manager DOL Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:44 PM
retiree I agree, in the GS world the door to employment says dogs and vet's need not apply. if we hire more vets then we'll need fewer union workers because they used to working.
That's why NSPS is so needed to stop this inbreeding and cronyism.
Re: PROMOTIONS
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:04 AM
Support positions are really hard to be promoted within. No degree = no promotion. It doesn't matter how well you do the job, or how much of the senior person's job you actually do. You are also the first one to be gotten rid of through a variety of means should they wish to chop the budget.
Some of us are very good at what we do but do not and cannot get degrees. I may have to sit at a computer every night and click buttons to get an online degree, (worthless in practice.) Money and time are the problem.
It used to be that a few years of on-the-job training or in-house training would count for a "shirt-sleeve" degree and qualify you for promotion. Now it seems that kids with no experience and a nice, shiny BA from the same schools that trained the people in charge of our financial system, are the ones the government wants.
Of course, these young-uns are easy to sell on surface ideology rather than in rubber-meets-the-road practicality.
Re: PROMOTIONS
Thorn in the Side DOD Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:35 AM
Nameless, Faceless - if you get stuck in certain series just to "get your foot in the door," all the degrees in the world won't help you. So people should be sure it will make a difference before making an investment in further education, unless they view it as a hobby.
Faster Promotions Coming for Some Federal Employee
pion Fed Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:32 AM
Hope someone lets TSA know. Since they go bu the rules they make up and very little oversight from Congress.
Grade with Step Increases
Secretary Fl Natl Guard Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:43 AM
Would be nice if something could be done for individuals in non-promotable positions, and who are maxed out in step increases given more steps to increase in, instead of being dead end.
Faster Promotions
OS SSA Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:49 AM
I suspect that SSA will resist this. Most of our positions do not have any promotion potential past GS-11. We just don't have many with a 12/13 or 13/14 ladders. This rule change could have an impact on new hires. I believe we loose good people because we are forced to start many new hires as GS-5s for a claims rep position. The ladder is 5-7-9-11. So you can see that SSA really tries to get its money's worth out of a new hire. This means that most candidates I have interviewed take a pay cut when coming to SSA. It would be nice if we could hold out the possibility that a person might attain at least the 9 in less than two years. It might also make the trainees work harder.
Faster promotions
HR Specialist (Retired) DOI, OS Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:41 AM
This will open up a whole new can of worms. I predict it will cause more dissention in the ranks when favorites DO get promoted quicker than everyone else. I saw it my entire career (20 years in Personnel\HR). I see no solution to this as some managers have always done it and now it will be even easier to promote favorites.
Would be nice if we were on the GS pay band.
STSO TSA Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:13 PM
Of course this would relate to the TSA payband system since we are on the SV system
TIG
Civilian Fed Govt Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:41 PM
Wow, try to do something good and Federal employees still rant. I just don't get it!
Re: TIG
Joe the Bureaucrat OPM Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:44 PM
I'm not sure I follow your comment. Who has been ranting? And why is this change, if it goes thru, necessarily something good? You have to understand the entire ramifications of this change. It does not mean that every Tom, Dick and Harry will now get an automatic promotion that they wouldn't have been eligible for.
Re: TIG
Civilian Fed Govt Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:47 AM
Joe, guess you need to read all the negative comments concerning "favoritism, good-ole-boy" etc. That's why I referred to the ranting. And it is something good. There are employees who have the experience/education that would qualify them for a higher grade, but have been held back due to the TIG restriction. If you were in that category, you would certainly think it's a good thing. And no, it's not automatic. Your supervisor would have to declare that you are qualified.
Re: TIG
Accountant Fed Agency Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:32 AM
Civilian.....what about the flip side when people are promoted just because they are in a "career ladder" position? I think a "mass" re-training of federal managers needs to occur. At my agency we have people at the GS-14 level who appearingly can't even walk and chew gum at the same time. It is truly a mistery how these people made it to that level. The GS schedule needs to be discarded. People should not be rewarded based on the number of years they have showed up to their office, rather what they have done in the way of job performance!
Re: TIG
Civilian Fed Govt Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:22 AM
Accountant, that's what NSPS was trying to do--eliminate pay increases simply for staying on the job and look at the response that has received. There are those that will always look at everything with a glass-half-full frame of mind. You can't please everyone all the time. By the way, under NSPS the TIG rule went away, so it now being eliminated under the GS system is not something new and Federal wage system (WG, etc.) employees never had it. The key to remember is that the employee still has to meet the qualification requirements of the level of the position in order to be promoted.
GRADE LEVELS
HR SPECIALIST DOE Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:13 PM
OPM's obervation regarding the low probability of grade creep is pure BS. OPM does not enforce the classification system and consequently agencies are over grading their positions anywhere from two to five grades. OPM should look at the Dept. of Energy to see what happens when it does not enforce the classification standards. DOE employees are grossly overpaid and represent the epitome of incompetence.
Promotion
Legal Instruments Examiner U.S. FDA Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:24 PM
As an employee of this agency for almost 22 years and doing the job of a GS-13 since I started and with the promotion of a GS-09 since 1993 and not getting a higher grade than this one. This is ridiculous because I have the experience but not the education and this has been the biggest problem for my promotion I think this will be good for those people who do not have the education but have the experience.
3 YEAR WAIT BETWEEN LATTER STEPS
Secretary (Office Automation) HUD Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:49 PM
well, you should also have an immediate rule changer for those having no chance of promotion due to location as this obstruction to step increase is worse that any cost of living expense and constitutes 3 steps backward, especially in this economy. it's been backwards for years and it needs corrected now and not another 100 yrs. down the road.
Re: 3 YEAR WAIT BETWEEN LATTER STEPS
Prof Small College Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:34 PM
For those of you that cannot get promoted (no fault of yours of course) upgrade your skills, apply for other disciplines and look at other Agencies. I see no reason for a GS-05 position to not remain a GS-05 position unless higher grade duties are added. Why would a manager want to upgrade a GS-05 position if the duties are the same?
Ask for a Desk Audit. There is a possibility the grad may be lowered. Be careful for what you pray for.
Re: 3 YEAR WAIT BETWEEN LATTER STEPS
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:14 AM
Prof,
I had to change organizations to get promoted past GS-5. Everyone I worked for, with, or served, agreed that I was doing more, and doing it better, than most of the 7's. My wide experience was lost to the command, I lost a job that I loved to do flunky work that paid better, and no-one is really happy.
Perhaps the requiring a degree for jobs that a half-way intelligent high-school grad is quite able to learn is part of the problem. I am well able to read, interpret, and apply the 6 CFRs I have used over the last few years. Until this flunky job that pays more, I would train, support, and keep out of jail, the degreed supervisors that came and went.
We get these interns right out of college, spend 2 years giving them classes, they want more money and leave. Well, I am not allowed to take the same classes as I don't already have a degree. Let me take those classes and use them to help qualify me for the job!
Re: 3 YEAR WAIT BETWEEN LATTER STEPS
Nameless, Faceless Nobody DOD Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:15 AM
Prof,
I had to change organizations to get promoted past GS-5. Everyone I worked for, with, or served, agreed that I was doing more, and doing it better, than most of the 7's. My wide experience was lost to the command, I lost a job that I loved to do flunky work that paid better, and no-one is really happy.
Perhaps the requiring a degree for jobs that a half-way intelligent high-school grad is quite able to learn is part of the problem. I am well able to read, interpret, and apply the 6 CFRs I have used over the last few years. Until this flunky job that pays more, I would train, support, and keep out of jail, the degreed supervisors that came and went.
We get these interns right out of college, spend 2 years giving them classes, they want more money and leave. Well, I am not allowed to take the same classes as I don't already have a degree. Let me take those classes and use them to help qualify me for the job!
FAVORITISM/NEPOTISM FOR PROMOTIONS
ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER (AOD) VETERANS AFFAIRS Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:44 AM
22+ years off tour facility representation, zero
hours unscheduled sick leave usage, without
questionable performance issues, best qualified
for promotion vacancies but can't obtain one;
ridiculous isn't it. if the games aren't played
opportunity to advance don't exist. whole system needs revamped to clean out the managerial deadwood; its too large.
Faster Promotion Decisions for Federal Employees
Property Industrial Specialist Marine Corp Community Services Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:58 AM
I hope this really goes forward. I have tried to get prom oted by even re-doing my Resume and having my union trying to help me but nothing happen and the union did not have enough money to go to Arbitration.
Re: Faster Promotion Decisions for Federal Employees
Diversity Manager DOL Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:23 PM
did you try working harder and showing some creativity, i realize you have a job for life but how about some effort?/
Last paragraph corrected
Aerospace Engineer DoD Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:30 PM
In short, the rule change is designed to let managers promote their golden boys expeditiously and let them cruise faster through the system. The change will obviously also open up managers to having their decisions challenged in various appeals processes by those who do not get promoted and who will allege "favortism" when cheats, liars, and idiots get promoted faster than normal people. Luckily for management, people under NSPS have no rights.
Re: Last paragraph corrected
Diversity Manager DOL Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:28 PM
I agree how dare they promote someone on merit!!! We are all CS we have jobs for life, automatic promotions and annual raises, why should someone who works hard move any faster than the rest of us bureaucrats
Re: Last paragraph corrected
Journeyman Claims Representative Social Security Administration Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:53 AM
Diversity Manager does not work for the federal government and is obviously not a diversity manager. He just wants to say something negative about government workers just because he needs attention. He demonstrates his severe ignorance about the subject matter by stating, "We are all CS". Civil Service has not been available for new workers for several decades. So the overwhelming majority of employees are not "CS" and many who actually were elected to change over from civil service when the opportunity presented itself to avoid Government Pension Offset. That change happened when I was in elementary school in the 1980s. As such, “Diversity Manager” is several decades out of his element. As a journeyman CR, I read this site to learn about agency issues and concerns from experienced professionals. It is pathetic that someone has so little joy in their life and so much idle time and vitriolic hatred of strangers that they must spend their time making hostile and offensive remarks.
Re: Last paragraph corrected
manager DoD Agency Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:25 AM
Actually, the diversity manager is correct. "CS" just means civil servant. The retirement system you happen to be in is not relevant--you are still a civil servant.
This is Not Good!!
Auditor DCAA (DoD Agency) Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:38 PM
This will allow those in the same group as their manager to move up quickly. For example, in my agency it helps to be a catholic to get a promotion. Certain other people are considered untouchables and are always held down. A mechanical system brings some sense of fairness in spite of the favoritism and prejudice.
Faster Promotion Decisions for Federal Employees
MFH Loan Tech USDA, Rural Development Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:02 PM
I am so happy for this rule. Finally, I have a good chance to get promoted.
I am getting tired seeing these GS12 who don't know their jobs and always making hugh mistakes that I have to fix or overseeing their paperwork. I keep wondering how they become GS12. I always thought GS12 meant you are specialized in your field. Not always the case in RD.
Pay Increase
PPT Specialist Dept of State Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:09 AM
Welcome to the 20th century!!! There is still a lot that OPM needs to do in order to enter the 21st century, but at least they are making steps. I think a lot of change will happen when Gen X and Gen Y replaces the Baby Boomers that are in higher positions. There are a lot of strategies to prevent the "good ole boy" network that many people complain about that are now taught in today's management classes at university and within management books that are easily attainable. Granted there will always be problems and we will always serve under people we shouldn't, but at least we have an opportunity for more pay parity with the private sector (at least in Houston). This will allow us to better retain great employees and better recruit others away from private sector employers.
Step Increase
Prog Anal. Treasury Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:19 AM
While this may be a good thing for some emps, I would have preferred to see an elimination of the waiting rule for step increases in which after you reach Step 4, you have to wait 2 years for each step increase and after step 7, 3 years for each.
Considering how rapidly health premiums are going up, the COLA pretty much offsets the premium increase and the step increase is the only raise we have. W/o it in those waiting years, you can even wind up with a loss in net pay.
time in grade rerquirement
CTE SSA Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:45 AM
As Pat Paulsen once said: "let me say this about that."
I have been employed at SSA for 37 years and I think this is wrong on many levels. Considering the intensity and stress of jobs such as BTE and CTE, is it fair to promote someone out of the job in less than 52 weeks? I call it the "suffering" factor. I think employees need to "suffer" in the job or to be more polite "pay their dues" before beiong promoted. Considering the complexity of BTE and CTE jobs, it is virtually impossible for someone to gain any expertise at these jobs in less than 5 years. The jobs are too damanding. So in essence what you get are employees being promoted after 1 or 2 years who never really mastered the jobs. It is not fair for those of us who really try to do a good job, who strive for accuracy, who care about the claimant and not as much about instant upward mobility. I sure hope you print this because some really talented technicians never even file for jobs because we see the futility of it all.
Faster Promotions
HR Specialist DOE Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:57 AM
I know there is much excitement going on since OPM made this ruling, however employees must remember that in order to qualify for the next higher grade without the TIG requirement you still have to meet the specialized experience. I would not be surprise if Agencies impelment their SOP regarding this matter to avoid an excessive increase in rapid promotions
Re: Faster Promotions
CTE SSA Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:03 AM
I see this as a expeditious way to ensure all the new hires reach their level of incompetence even faster. There is much talent within SSA from those who moved up the ranks and actually try to do a good job. I am hearing too many stories of young technicians asked to teach training classes after having been in a job for a year or less. These are the up and coming "outstanding scholars" hired from the outside. How much do they really know considering they were in 7 months of training and have a year or less actually processing the work.
Re: Promotions
Budget Tech VA Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:28 PM
Nameless faceless nobody.
It's been my experience that having a degree would open up opportunities. Sorry to say that's not the case. I have a degree, attended many trainings for self improvement, and no of it seems to matter. What does seem to matter is who a person knows. It's unfortunate, but that's the reality. Here in the VA the saying is mess up move up.
time in grade
Engineering Technician USAF Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:27 PM
This is way too stupid! Hotshots are already being promoted way too fast as it is! A person who was a contractor just a few years ago started as a GS-7 and is already a GS-11, while i have be a GS-9 for over 18 years mostly getting superman appraisals, and i have a college degree!!!
Buddies!
Girl friends!
Relatives!
stooges!
& the union killed NSPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: time in grade
QAS NAVY Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:28 AM
Welcome to my world! I have two degrees (BAS, MAS) with every qualification in my field, but it doesn't hold a candle to being a retired officer or chief without a degree. Who makes the decision to promote? Military officers. By the way, I have had these qualifications for 25 years and have been a GS-11 for almost as long. My problem is my wife is with the school system and this is the only place I can live. I just have to suck it up and watch military retirees get the promotions.
Minimum of time-in grade
EEO Specialist USDA Forest Service Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:51 PM
Will there be a minimum a person need to be in the grade (i.e., 3 or 6 months in multi graded position) before the manager may promote them to the next higher grade?
Friends Helping Friends Network Again
Civil Investigator USEPA Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:10 PM
What this means is that managers can continue to promote their friends, only faster now. I am so tired of watching management in my department promote their friends who do not hold college degrees over those employees that are qualified and do hold college degrees.
Simply put: The Friends Helping Friends Network
Give me a break!
Fed Worker DOD Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:09 AM
I came to the Government 3 years ago as a GS-7 Intern and was recently promoted to GS-12. I think this is a move in the right direction as having been an executive in the private sector I have a little more motivation to stay in the Government. I did not know anyone in DoD when I came on board. I did not seek to make friends with anyone as I am not a yes man. I work hard, and cooperate with managment. When they are wrong I tell them in a constructive manner, and respectfully. One can disagree without being a donkey. I have an MBA that I got at night and on weekends, as well as real world experience. The fact that I am a Vet draws ire, however it was how I got my foot in the door. The rest has been up to me and will continue to be. None of the people I have helped get promoted have been Vets BTW. Stop the whining, and look in the mirror. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy, and the sniveling drives away good fortune.
Re: Give me a break!
Unhigh on the Food Chain VA Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:27 PM
Yea! One success story. . . . And how did you become a Government Intern . . . hopefully, not due to cronysm or nepotism. I also am willing to bet without any real skill, they simply promoted you to the next levels without any competition. Great for you.
Re: Give me a break!
Systems Accountant VA Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:26 AM
I'm with you on that one, Fed worker. I came in as a student intern (GS-4) less than three years ago, and I'm looking forward to the promotions as much as anyone. I'm now a 9, with my ladder going up to a 13, but I have worked as hard as anyone, and I'm trying to make a good life for my family. To do so, I know that I've got to do things quickly, efficiently, professionally, and respectfully. If all the people I worked with did the same thing, they would be in the same place I am. Have some things broken well for me, possibly, but the onus falls on the worker to do his or her very best, get the education and experience, and be a professional in his own job.
With regards to some of the other people that complain about not getting promoted, have you ever asked why? Have you sat down with your supervisor, then asked him or her why, specifically, you were passed over? Or, for that matter, do the same thing as follow-up after a job interview?
That might be something that helps.
promotions
SUPPLY TECH. naval supply dept. Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:31 AM
i understand the article, but i myself have been in the gs-05 level since october 1989 i am now a step 10, i am always told i dont have enough training to go to the next
rank. i serve in the military for ten years, i have a lot of military training that i bring to my job, i am not the only one with this problem, here where i work the one that get promoted are the ones that are buddies with the boss or bosses. this is unfair.
Beat a dead horse
Fed Worker DOD Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:00 AM
Well, there is a Web site called USAJOBS.com. Also we can take job related courses online at home in many cases. The Government pays for education. This is a matter of taking the bull by the horns. If we need to improve our writing skills, that is up to us. It is sometimes scary to embrace change for some people to improve, but it can be done. It takes a little gumption. Sometimes, people are as far as they will go. If you are not going to pursue self-improvement, take a new job, or change agencies then just stay quiet and do your job. Stop complaining, and be happy. In the private sector you would not be so lucky. In the private sector the "whiners" are mong the first to go in a layoff.
Accelerated Promotion
Federal Worker DOS Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:32 PM
Although Fed Worker-DOD point was blunt, they are correct. It appears that many of the folks commenting have been in there jobs for many years and want promotions, yet you have to remember that in order to move up in your career you have to make drastic changes such as applying to other agencies, take training to enhance and/or improve skills, etc. Remember, the only person who can hold you back is you.
I wouldn't get too excited about this new change. Also, you still have to meet the specialized experience to qualify for the next higher grade. Uncle Sam does not give anything for free or make things easy.
RE:Give me a break!
Fed Worker DOD Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:06 AM
Unhigh VA, I am a Disabled Vet. Former Army SGT. No real cronies to speak of. It took me 8 years to get in the Gov't. I left a job as a Senior Exec in a fortune 30 company in 2005 I grossed $125,000. I took a huge paycut, went into the intern program. I have an MBA that I got at night. I learned the job easily, as I read up and studied at night. If I did not know the job I would not have been allowed to progress. I changed agencies once I graduated. I took risks, tried new things, worked hard. What have you done to get ahead? Have you pursued training? Education? Changed jobs? Moved? You remind me of my Uncle whom mows lawns for a living and complains about how good everyone else has it.
Discrimination
Discrimination Complaints Manager DHUD Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:19 AM
There is favortism now and will be hereafter. Managers have a tendency to do as they please. The reason being is because of the so-called unbias justification they use for the action taken. The title, "Faster Promotions Coming for Some Federal Employees" is accurate.
Re: Discrimination
Fed Worker DoD Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:09 AM
Yes, I agree in some cases there will be some biases. We have to unload those people who are racist, or sexist. An even playing field for all is important.
Degrees Don't Always Matter
Hopeful DoD Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:12 AM
I saw several comments referring to having degrees. I have a Masters in Logistics and I competed for a job with a guy that was working on his Associate. He got the position because "the Panel" said he knocked the interview out of the ballpark; he never completed the Associate degree he didn't have too. My degrees did not matter; what mattered was how well they felt he did on the interview. The people on the panel wanted him for the position because he had already received a job in another organization and came back for the interview. Nobody seems to care how much friendship plays in how people are promoted; where is the integrity.
Why some people get higher paying jobs, and others
Supply Technician Post Headquarters (Logistics) Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:28 AM
Why do some people get highter grade jobs and don't do anything but kiss up, to keep their jobs and others have to get low paying jobs and they do all the work?
and only from 1 payday to another. Then when they retire they get maybe half of what they use to make and go deeper in debt each month they live.
Hope for Change
Investigator U.S. Treasury, BEP Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:46 AM
This looks like another opportunity for the Bush administration to ensure cronies are rewarded. I was in the Army just before the days of centeralized promotions. Local commanders rewarded those who placed loyalty above ethics. Maybe this would work well in the perfect world. We are not there yet. I know for a fact this rule will be abused by my agency and maybe many others. Let's hope the Obama administration sees through this and put in a freeze.
Not a perfect world
Fed Worker DOD Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:24 AM
Hey, it's not a perfect world. My point is to keep trying, get educated, find a job where there is promotion potential and change agencies. There is no cheese for "whine."
Promotions
Supply Technician Post Headquarters (Logistics) Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:37 AM
Why is it that when a n enlisted E-7 and below retires from to military, it's so hard for them to get a GS-09 or above. But when an E-8 , officer captain or above if they get a GS job, they always get GS-011 or above.???
I think I could do a job as well as a GS-11 or about who comes from the military to retire and get a GS-11 or above. I think they also shold start out as GS-05 and work their way up the civialian grades also. I've been a GS-05 for 17 years and can't get a GS-6 or above. Is it because I'm white and don't kiss butty like other people does. I didn't kiss butty while in the military 24 years of duty, I'm too old to start now. So how about let mastersergeants and above and all officers start out getting jobs as GS-05 like I did. And I have Batchlor degree in Science and a GS-05 is all I can get. Officers can do the same. And they say military and civial service has equal opportunity, Where is it? Only with higher military and black people.
Not Applicable
Project Manager ISEC Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:27 AM
Since April 15th, 2007, we as ISEC employees are no longer under General Schedule (GS) pay system that implies
the "time in grade rule". We under the new pay system called " National Security personnel System "NSPS" or Band system.
Please advise if this rule is applicable to the NSPS.
RE:Promotions
Fed Worker DoD Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:45 AM
Supply Tech: I was an E-5 in the Army. You can't write or spell.
Re: RE:Promotions
Wouldnt you like to know Department of Defense Mon Dec 1, 2008 7:43 PM
I came in the Fed as a GS-5 in 2002, I'm now a GS-15. I am bangin my boss and her daughter. Sometimes you have to go what you have to do to get ahead.....LOL
Promotions at SSA
Senior Case Technicia Office of Disability Adjudication and Review/SSA Mon Dec 8, 2008 12:06 PM
Talk about frustration, I have been in the same position for over 10 years. Came in at a grade 6 went to an 8 in 2 years. Then I figure that I would go back and get my bachelor degree so that I could get promoted. Well, after using all my own time and money. After all the awards, also doing a 19 month detail in another state. Here I sit in the same position as I was hired in. I put in an application with my agency that was hiring 27 paralegals. Since I have a bachelpr degree in paralegal how could I not get the promotion. Well, guess what I didn't . Talk about burn out from doing the same job for
the last ten years.
OPM new rule on Within Grade Promotions
Financial Technician Navy Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:23 AM
In reference to this comment: The change will obviously also open up managers to having their decisions challenged in various appeals processes by those who do not get promoted and who will allege "favortism" when one person is promoted faster than another.
Answer: It is NO ONE ELSE'S BUSINESS what your step is within your grade. If decisions are challanged, it is because someone shared the private information. If the promoted employee did not do the sharing, then the big talker should be disciplined. Management decisions of the supervisor/manager, most of the time, are based on merit and not "favoritism". Unless the favorite deserves to be so because they are doing their work well, on time and without complaint. Employees who have time to delve into other people's pay business have too much time on their hands and need more work to do.
Its who you know....
HR Specialist VA Sat Feb 7, 2009 10:09 AM
So here its a person that gets hire as a new employee in the VA, OIT as a GS-5 then gets promoted to gs-9 within 5 months and again promoted to gs-11 within another six months. Comes to find out that his family made some calls to the CIO of the facility and got him promoted after his family explained to the CIO that their son had a hard marriage, went to drug rehab and needs to get his life back to normal. CIO called the HR Chief and the HR Chief made it happened. In the meantime while he learned the job from other seasoned IT techs in the field and haven't done anything out of the extraordinary to deserve such a promotion in such a short period of time. Again, this is a prime example that it's who you know in the VA system that gets you promoted. Welcome to the VA Promotion System!
Time in Grade Rule Eliminated?
AR Supervisor Veterans Affairs Thu Jul 2, 2009 1:42 PM
We are being told the rule has been suspended until further notice. I can't find anything about that.
Has the elimination rule that was supposed to be effective March 9, 2009 been suspended?
See the government going broke with this logic. Civilian pay dollars are hard to keep within budget now; this just opens the door. OPM needs to get back in the field to see what really happens versus assuming all will follow the rules. OPM and XP is famous for not keeping new hires to unit manning document positions; still trying to figure how they allow new employees to come on the books when positions don't exist and there is no funding.
Grade increases
Target systems worker YTC (DPTMS) Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:55 PM
What if you are in the WG (wage grade) field does this apply to us or just the GS levels???
A step in the right direction.....
Fed Agency
Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:46 AM
This is definitely a step in the right direction toward creating an environment that focuses on and rewards performance instead of longevity. I came into Federal service two years ago as a GS-13. My manager at the time found that I out-performed all of his GS-14 level staff and attempted to promote me "early". Of couse HR quickly told him NO. I was promoted after one year to a GS-14 and after a year at a GS-14, was recently promoted to a GS-15. The bottom line is that I am a high performer and should have been recognized for my performance without regard to "time-in-grade". This is a good move by OPM. Now if we could just get rid of the GS system all together and move the entire government to pay-for-performance! I look forward to the day! Maybe then we could get rid of all the high-graded (GS-14) slackers that I observe on a daily basis.
Re: A step in the right direction.....
Outside the beltway
Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:34 AM
Re: A step in the right direction.....
One of the Pay For Perf Agencies
Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:19 AM
I am one of the stellar performers and I have been financially rewarded for it but the system is a problem. It is highly subjective, dependent upon the assignments that you receive, your supv's mood..... And you had better keep all that in the forefront or your pay will fall behind the annual adjustment given for GS employees. If you raise an alternative or object to the course your supv has outlined you had better hope that it isn't remembered at appraisal time.
I am hoping that Obama takes us back to the GS system as he has threatened. I have a strong preference for performing well simply because it is who I am, not always running like a rabbit to ensure that I make my supv happy. Plus if a system is going to improve you have to be willing to take chances and this system does not reward innovation; it rewards obedience.
And we don't get rid of the poor performers either.
Re: A step in the right direction.....
No comment
Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:28 AM
Poor performance makes you ineligible for a higher grade and subject to removal; exemplory performance makes you eligible for an award; acceptable performance plus one year of specialized experience will make you eligible for promotion.
Presumably, most people are brought into the govt service at the highest grade that they qualify for.
Faster Promotions
Rural Development
Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:50 AM
That is all well and good except when it comes to this Agency. They prefer hiring and promoting individuals from the outside and having the lower grade employees "assist" them.
Re: Faster Promotions
VA
Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:50 AM
Re: Faster Promotions
VA
Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:25 AM
Re: Faster Promotions
DOL
Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:40 PM
Re: Faster Promotions
USDA, Rural Development
Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:04 PM
Re: Faster Promotions
USDA
Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:14 AM
Re: Faster Promotions
DOI
Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:28 AM
We understand how the hierarchy works. The point that "USDA Rural Development" makes is that some offices will bring in outsiders for higher grades rather than promote some qualified individuals from within, regardless of what rules are added, removed, or changed. It's another facet of the "buddy system."
Re: Faster Promotions
VA
Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:11 PM
who've been around awhile. Nothing could be further from the truth. Visit your DOI HR function & get some basic info about your merit promotion program, qual standards & related staffing matters.
Re: Faster Promotions
CIS
Tue Dec 2, 2008 9:17 AM
Maybe someday they will make rules that allow the people who actually DO the work to get the credit and pay they deserve.
PROMOTIONS
SUPPLY DEPT NAVY (FISC)
Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:11 AM
to whom it may concern i've been a gs-05 since 1989 and i have heard the same excuse on promotions but the managers only promote their
buddies i am also a vietnam vet, if your a vet you get treated like a second class citizen, i want some answers. i 'm attach to one of bases south of andrews afb.
Re: PROMOTIONS
DoD
Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:27 PM
Re: PROMOTIONS
DOL
Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:44 PM
That's why NSPS is so needed to stop this inbreeding and cronyism.
Re: PROMOTIONS
DOD
Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:04 AM
Some of us are very good at what we do but do not and cannot get degrees. I may have to sit at a computer every night and click buttons to get an online degree, (worthless in practice.) Money and time are the problem.
It used to be that a few years of on-the-job training or in-house training would count for a "shirt-sleeve" degree and qualify you for promotion. Now it seems that kids with no experience and a nice, shiny BA from the same schools that trained the people in charge of our financial system, are the ones the government wants.
Of course, these young-uns are easy to sell on surface ideology rather than in rubber-meets-the-road practicality.
Re: PROMOTIONS
DOD
Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:35 AM
Faster Promotions Coming for Some Federal Employee
Fed
Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:32 AM
Hope someone lets TSA know. Since they go bu the rules they make up and very little oversight from Congress.
Grade with Step Increases
Fl Natl Guard
Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:43 AM
Would be nice if something could be done for individuals in non-promotable positions, and who are maxed out in step increases given more steps to increase in, instead of being dead end.
Faster Promotions
SSA
Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:49 AM
I suspect that SSA will resist this. Most of our positions do not have any promotion potential past GS-11. We just don't have many with a 12/13 or 13/14 ladders. This rule change could have an impact on new hires. I believe we loose good people because we are forced to start many new hires as GS-5s for a claims rep position. The ladder is 5-7-9-11. So you can see that SSA really tries to get its money's worth out of a new hire. This means that most candidates I have interviewed take a pay cut when coming to SSA. It would be nice if we could hold out the possibility that a person might attain at least the 9 in less than two years. It might also make the trainees work harder.
Faster promotions
DOI, OS
Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:41 AM
This will open up a whole new can of worms. I predict it will cause more dissention in the ranks when favorites DO get promoted quicker than everyone else. I saw it my entire career (20 years in Personnel\HR). I see no solution to this as some managers have always done it and now it will be even easier to promote favorites.
Would be nice if we were on the GS pay band.
TSA
Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:13 PM
Of course this would relate to the TSA payband system since we are on the SV system
TIG
Fed Govt
Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:41 PM
Wow, try to do something good and Federal employees still rant. I just don't get it!
Re: TIG
OPM
Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:44 PM
Re: TIG
Fed Govt
Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:47 AM
Re: TIG
Fed Agency
Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:32 AM
Re: TIG
Fed Govt
Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:22 AM
GRADE LEVELS
DOE
Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:13 PM
OPM's obervation regarding the low probability of grade creep is pure BS. OPM does not enforce the classification system and consequently agencies are over grading their positions anywhere from two to five grades. OPM should look at the Dept. of Energy to see what happens when it does not enforce the classification standards. DOE employees are grossly overpaid and represent the epitome of incompetence.
Promotion
U.S. FDA
Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:24 PM
As an employee of this agency for almost 22 years and doing the job of a GS-13 since I started and with the promotion of a GS-09 since 1993 and not getting a higher grade than this one. This is ridiculous because I have the experience but not the education and this has been the biggest problem for my promotion I think this will be good for those people who do not have the education but have the experience.
3 YEAR WAIT BETWEEN LATTER STEPS
HUD
Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:49 PM
well, you should also have an immediate rule changer for those having no chance of promotion due to location as this obstruction to step increase is worse that any cost of living expense and constitutes 3 steps backward, especially in this economy. it's been backwards for years and it needs corrected now and not another 100 yrs. down the road.
Re: 3 YEAR WAIT BETWEEN LATTER STEPS
Small College
Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:34 PM
Ask for a Desk Audit. There is a possibility the grad may be lowered. Be careful for what you pray for.
Re: 3 YEAR WAIT BETWEEN LATTER STEPS
DOD
Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:14 AM
I had to change organizations to get promoted past GS-5. Everyone I worked for, with, or served, agreed that I was doing more, and doing it better, than most of the 7's. My wide experience was lost to the command, I lost a job that I loved to do flunky work that paid better, and no-one is really happy.
Perhaps the requiring a degree for jobs that a half-way intelligent high-school grad is quite able to learn is part of the problem. I am well able to read, interpret, and apply the 6 CFRs I have used over the last few years. Until this flunky job that pays more, I would train, support, and keep out of jail, the degreed supervisors that came and went.
We get these interns right out of college, spend 2 years giving them classes, they want more money and leave. Well, I am not allowed to take the same classes as I don't already have a degree. Let me take those classes and use them to help qualify me for the job!
Re: 3 YEAR WAIT BETWEEN LATTER STEPS
DOD
Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:15 AM
I had to change organizations to get promoted past GS-5. Everyone I worked for, with, or served, agreed that I was doing more, and doing it better, than most of the 7's. My wide experience was lost to the command, I lost a job that I loved to do flunky work that paid better, and no-one is really happy.
Perhaps the requiring a degree for jobs that a half-way intelligent high-school grad is quite able to learn is part of the problem. I am well able to read, interpret, and apply the 6 CFRs I have used over the last few years. Until this flunky job that pays more, I would train, support, and keep out of jail, the degreed supervisors that came and went.
We get these interns right out of college, spend 2 years giving them classes, they want more money and leave. Well, I am not allowed to take the same classes as I don't already have a degree. Let me take those classes and use them to help qualify me for the job!
FAVORITISM/NEPOTISM FOR PROMOTIONS
VETERANS AFFAIRS
Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:44 AM
22+ years off tour facility representation, zero
hours unscheduled sick leave usage, without
questionable performance issues, best qualified
for promotion vacancies but can't obtain one;
ridiculous isn't it. if the games aren't played
opportunity to advance don't exist. whole system needs revamped to clean out the managerial deadwood; its too large.
Faster Promotion Decisions for Federal Employees
Marine Corp Community Services
Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:58 AM
I hope this really goes forward. I have tried to get prom oted by even re-doing my Resume and having my union trying to help me but nothing happen and the union did not have enough money to go to Arbitration.
Re: Faster Promotion Decisions for Federal Employees
DOL
Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:23 PM
Last paragraph corrected
DoD
Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:30 PM
In short, the rule change is designed to let managers promote their golden boys expeditiously and let them cruise faster through the system. The change will obviously also open up managers to having their decisions challenged in various appeals processes by those who do not get promoted and who will allege "favortism" when cheats, liars, and idiots get promoted faster than normal people. Luckily for management, people under NSPS have no rights.
Re: Last paragraph corrected
DOL
Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:28 PM
Re: Last paragraph corrected
Social Security Administration
Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:53 AM
Re: Last paragraph corrected
DoD Agency
Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:25 AM
This is Not Good!!
DCAA (DoD Agency)
Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:38 PM
This will allow those in the same group as their manager to move up quickly. For example, in my agency it helps to be a catholic to get a promotion. Certain other people are considered untouchables and are always held down. A mechanical system brings some sense of fairness in spite of the favoritism and prejudice.
Faster Promotion Decisions for Federal Employees
USDA, Rural Development
Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:02 PM
I am so happy for this rule. Finally, I have a good chance to get promoted.
I am getting tired seeing these GS12 who don't know their jobs and always making hugh mistakes that I have to fix or overseeing their paperwork. I keep wondering how they become GS12. I always thought GS12 meant you are specialized in your field. Not always the case in RD.
Pay Increase
Dept of State
Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:09 AM
Welcome to the 20th century!!! There is still a lot that OPM needs to do in order to enter the 21st century, but at least they are making steps. I think a lot of change will happen when Gen X and Gen Y replaces the Baby Boomers that are in higher positions. There are a lot of strategies to prevent the "good ole boy" network that many people complain about that are now taught in today's management classes at university and within management books that are easily attainable. Granted there will always be problems and we will always serve under people we shouldn't, but at least we have an opportunity for more pay parity with the private sector (at least in Houston). This will allow us to better retain great employees and better recruit others away from private sector employers.
Step Increase
Treasury
Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:19 AM
While this may be a good thing for some emps, I would have preferred to see an elimination of the waiting rule for step increases in which after you reach Step 4, you have to wait 2 years for each step increase and after step 7, 3 years for each.
Considering how rapidly health premiums are going up, the COLA pretty much offsets the premium increase and the step increase is the only raise we have. W/o it in those waiting years, you can even wind up with a loss in net pay.
time in grade rerquirement
SSA
Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:45 AM
As Pat Paulsen once said: "let me say this about that."
I have been employed at SSA for 37 years and I think this is wrong on many levels. Considering the intensity and stress of jobs such as BTE and CTE, is it fair to promote someone out of the job in less than 52 weeks? I call it the "suffering" factor. I think employees need to "suffer" in the job or to be more polite "pay their dues" before beiong promoted. Considering the complexity of BTE and CTE jobs, it is virtually impossible for someone to gain any expertise at these jobs in less than 5 years. The jobs are too damanding. So in essence what you get are employees being promoted after 1 or 2 years who never really mastered the jobs. It is not fair for those of us who really try to do a good job, who strive for accuracy, who care about the claimant and not as much about instant upward mobility. I sure hope you print this because some really talented technicians never even file for jobs because we see the futility of it all.
Faster Promotions
DOE
Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:57 AM
I know there is much excitement going on since OPM made this ruling, however employees must remember that in order to qualify for the next higher grade without the TIG requirement you still have to meet the specialized experience. I would not be surprise if Agencies impelment their SOP regarding this matter to avoid an excessive increase in rapid promotions
Re: Faster Promotions
SSA
Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:03 AM
Re: Promotions
VA
Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:28 PM
Nameless faceless nobody.
It's been my experience that having a degree would open up opportunities. Sorry to say that's not the case. I have a degree, attended many trainings for self improvement, and no of it seems to matter. What does seem to matter is who a person knows. It's unfortunate, but that's the reality. Here in the VA the saying is mess up move up.
time in grade
USAF
Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:27 PM
This is way too stupid! Hotshots are already being promoted way too fast as it is! A person who was a contractor just a few years ago started as a GS-7 and is already a GS-11, while i have be a GS-9 for over 18 years mostly getting superman appraisals, and i have a college degree!!!
Buddies!
Girl friends!
Relatives!
stooges!
& the union killed NSPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: time in grade
NAVY
Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:28 AM
Minimum of time-in grade
USDA Forest Service
Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:51 PM
Will there be a minimum a person need to be in the grade (i.e., 3 or 6 months in multi graded position) before the manager may promote them to the next higher grade?
Friends Helping Friends Network Again
USEPA
Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:10 PM
What this means is that managers can continue to promote their friends, only faster now. I am so tired of watching management in my department promote their friends who do not hold college degrees over those employees that are qualified and do hold college degrees.
Simply put: The Friends Helping Friends Network
Give me a break!
DOD
Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:09 AM
I came to the Government 3 years ago as a GS-7 Intern and was recently promoted to GS-12. I think this is a move in the right direction as having been an executive in the private sector I have a little more motivation to stay in the Government. I did not know anyone in DoD when I came on board. I did not seek to make friends with anyone as I am not a yes man. I work hard, and cooperate with managment. When they are wrong I tell them in a constructive manner, and respectfully. One can disagree without being a donkey. I have an MBA that I got at night and on weekends, as well as real world experience. The fact that I am a Vet draws ire, however it was how I got my foot in the door. The rest has been up to me and will continue to be. None of the people I have helped get promoted have been Vets BTW. Stop the whining, and look in the mirror. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy, and the sniveling drives away good fortune.
Re: Give me a break!
VA
Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:27 PM
Re: Give me a break!
VA
Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:26 AM
With regards to some of the other people that complain about not getting promoted, have you ever asked why? Have you sat down with your supervisor, then asked him or her why, specifically, you were passed over? Or, for that matter, do the same thing as follow-up after a job interview?
That might be something that helps.
promotions
naval supply dept.
Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:31 AM
i understand the article, but i myself have been in the gs-05 level since october 1989 i am now a step 10, i am always told i dont have enough training to go to the next
rank. i serve in the military for ten years, i have a lot of military training that i bring to my job, i am not the only one with this problem, here where i work the one that get promoted are the ones that are buddies with the boss or bosses. this is unfair.
Beat a dead horse
DOD
Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:00 AM
Well, there is a Web site called USAJOBS.com. Also we can take job related courses online at home in many cases. The Government pays for education. This is a matter of taking the bull by the horns. If we need to improve our writing skills, that is up to us. It is sometimes scary to embrace change for some people to improve, but it can be done. It takes a little gumption. Sometimes, people are as far as they will go. If you are not going to pursue self-improvement, take a new job, or change agencies then just stay quiet and do your job. Stop complaining, and be happy. In the private sector you would not be so lucky. In the private sector the "whiners" are mong the first to go in a layoff.
Accelerated Promotion
DOS
Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:32 PM
Although Fed Worker-DOD point was blunt, they are correct. It appears that many of the folks commenting have been in there jobs for many years and want promotions, yet you have to remember that in order to move up in your career you have to make drastic changes such as applying to other agencies, take training to enhance and/or improve skills, etc. Remember, the only person who can hold you back is you.
I wouldn't get too excited about this new change. Also, you still have to meet the specialized experience to qualify for the next higher grade. Uncle Sam does not give anything for free or make things easy.
RE:Give me a break!
DOD
Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:06 AM
Unhigh VA, I am a Disabled Vet. Former Army SGT. No real cronies to speak of. It took me 8 years to get in the Gov't. I left a job as a Senior Exec in a fortune 30 company in 2005 I grossed $125,000. I took a huge paycut, went into the intern program. I have an MBA that I got at night. I learned the job easily, as I read up and studied at night. If I did not know the job I would not have been allowed to progress. I changed agencies once I graduated. I took risks, tried new things, worked hard. What have you done to get ahead? Have you pursued training? Education? Changed jobs? Moved? You remind me of my Uncle whom mows lawns for a living and complains about how good everyone else has it.
Discrimination
DHUD
Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:19 AM
There is favortism now and will be hereafter. Managers have a tendency to do as they please. The reason being is because of the so-called unbias justification they use for the action taken. The title, "Faster Promotions Coming for Some Federal Employees" is accurate.
Re: Discrimination
DoD
Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:09 AM
Yes, I agree in some cases there will be some biases. We have to unload those people who are racist, or sexist. An even playing field for all is important.
Degrees Don't Always Matter
DoD
Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:12 AM
I saw several comments referring to having degrees. I have a Masters in Logistics and I competed for a job with a guy that was working on his Associate. He got the position because "the Panel" said he knocked the interview out of the ballpark; he never completed the Associate degree he didn't have too. My degrees did not matter; what mattered was how well they felt he did on the interview. The people on the panel wanted him for the position because he had already received a job in another organization and came back for the interview. Nobody seems to care how much friendship plays in how people are promoted; where is the integrity.
Why some people get higher paying jobs, and others
Post Headquarters (Logistics)
Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:28 AM
Why do some people get highter grade jobs and don't do anything but kiss up, to keep their jobs and others have to get low paying jobs and they do all the work?
and only from 1 payday to another. Then when they retire they get maybe half of what they use to make and go deeper in debt each month they live.
Hope for Change
U.S. Treasury, BEP
Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:46 AM
This looks like another opportunity for the Bush administration to ensure cronies are rewarded. I was in the Army just before the days of centeralized promotions. Local commanders rewarded those who placed loyalty above ethics. Maybe this would work well in the perfect world. We are not there yet. I know for a fact this rule will be abused by my agency and maybe many others. Let's hope the Obama administration sees through this and put in a freeze.
Not a perfect world
DOD
Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:24 AM
Hey, it's not a perfect world. My point is to keep trying, get educated, find a job where there is promotion potential and change agencies. There is no cheese for "whine."
Promotions
Post Headquarters (Logistics)
Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:37 AM
Why is it that when a n enlisted E-7 and below retires from to military, it's so hard for them to get a GS-09 or above. But when an E-8 , officer captain or above if they get a GS job, they always get GS-011 or above.???
I think I could do a job as well as a GS-11 or about who comes from the military to retire and get a GS-11 or above. I think they also shold start out as GS-05 and work their way up the civialian grades also. I've been a GS-05 for 17 years and can't get a GS-6 or above. Is it because I'm white and don't kiss butty like other people does. I didn't kiss butty while in the military 24 years of duty, I'm too old to start now. So how about let mastersergeants and above and all officers start out getting jobs as GS-05 like I did. And I have Batchlor degree in Science and a GS-05 is all I can get. Officers can do the same. And they say military and civial service has equal opportunity, Where is it? Only with higher military and black people.
Not Applicable
ISEC
Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:27 AM
Since April 15th, 2007, we as ISEC employees are no longer under General Schedule (GS) pay system that implies
the "time in grade rule". We under the new pay system called " National Security personnel System "NSPS" or Band system.
Please advise if this rule is applicable to the NSPS.
RE:Promotions
DoD
Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:45 AM
Supply Tech: I was an E-5 in the Army. You can't write or spell.
Re: RE:Promotions
Department of Defense
Mon Dec 1, 2008 7:43 PM
Promotions at SSA
Office of Disability Adjudication and Review/SSA
Mon Dec 8, 2008 12:06 PM
Talk about frustration, I have been in the same position for over 10 years. Came in at a grade 6 went to an 8 in 2 years. Then I figure that I would go back and get my bachelor degree so that I could get promoted. Well, after using all my own time and money. After all the awards, also doing a 19 month detail in another state. Here I sit in the same position as I was hired in. I put in an application with my agency that was hiring 27 paralegals. Since I have a bachelpr degree in paralegal how could I not get the promotion. Well, guess what I didn't . Talk about burn out from doing the same job for
the last ten years.
OPM new rule on Within Grade Promotions
Navy
Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:23 AM
In reference to this comment: The change will obviously also open up managers to having their decisions challenged in various appeals processes by those who do not get promoted and who will allege "favortism" when one person is promoted faster than another.
Answer: It is NO ONE ELSE'S BUSINESS what your step is within your grade. If decisions are challanged, it is because someone shared the private information. If the promoted employee did not do the sharing, then the big talker should be disciplined. Management decisions of the supervisor/manager, most of the time, are based on merit and not "favoritism". Unless the favorite deserves to be so because they are doing their work well, on time and without complaint. Employees who have time to delve into other people's pay business have too much time on their hands and need more work to do.
Its who you know....
VA
Sat Feb 7, 2009 10:09 AM
So here its a person that gets hire as a new employee in the VA, OIT as a GS-5 then gets promoted to gs-9 within 5 months and again promoted to gs-11 within another six months. Comes to find out that his family made some calls to the CIO of the facility and got him promoted after his family explained to the CIO that their son had a hard marriage, went to drug rehab and needs to get his life back to normal. CIO called the HR Chief and the HR Chief made it happened. In the meantime while he learned the job from other seasoned IT techs in the field and haven't done anything out of the extraordinary to deserve such a promotion in such a short period of time. Again, this is a prime example that it's who you know in the VA system that gets you promoted. Welcome to the VA Promotion System!
Time in Grade Rule Eliminated?
Veterans Affairs
Thu Jul 2, 2009 1:42 PM
We are being told the rule has been suspended until further notice. I can't find anything about that.
Has the elimination rule that was supposed to be effective March 9, 2009 been suspended?
Re: Time in Grade Rule Eliminated?
fedsmith.com
Thu Jul 2, 2009 3:23 PM
http://www.fedsmith.com/article/1985/eliminating-timeingrade-requirements-not-so-fast.html
Withdrawing Time In Grade
Air Force
Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:20 AM
See the government going broke with this logic. Civilian pay dollars are hard to keep within budget now; this just opens the door. OPM needs to get back in the field to see what really happens versus assuming all will follow the rules. OPM and XP is famous for not keeping new hires to unit manning document positions; still trying to figure how they allow new employees to come on the books when positions don't exist and there is no funding.
Grade increases
YTC (DPTMS)
Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:55 PM
What if you are in the WG (wage grade) field does this apply to us or just the GS levels???