INTERNAL REVENUE AGENT IRS Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:13 AM
fire and jail them!
Re: Fire those responsible
Accountant USCG Thu May 6, 2004 3:33 PM
You have people using diploma mills and having a good time with credit cards and not having to pay them back... WHY??? What is wrong with management? If they can't inforce the rules, they need to be removed from their jobs. WHY isn't is being done?
We're no worse than other agencies
Sr Labor Relations Specialist USDA Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:20 AM
Admittedly, there are problems with USDA's Credit Card problem, but I think the problem is widespread across all agencies. If you're gonna go off at Ag, ,let's give the other agencies the same treatment, please.
SSA doesn't have travel card problem
District Manager SSA Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:32 AM
This is not true in every agency. Our agency closely monitors travel card use.
Hear! Hear!
Human Resources Specialist US FIsh & Wildlife Service Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:33 AM
Hear! Hear! I cannot disagree with any of Ms. Smith's outrage, only vent some of my own.
As a dinosaur who remembers the days when there were no Government credit cards, I was at first puzzled, but am now outraged, by both the Government's and the credit card company's willingness to hand out plastic like candy - without so much as a credit history check. Incredibly irresponsible behavior in a world where 5 figure credit card debt seems to be the norm!
I'm also outraged that an act of Congress mandated the use of the Government credit card, without an accompnaying mandate to provide the resources to review usage.
And, as someone who tries to work with management in dealing with employee misconduct (such as misuse of the Government credit card), I am further outraged that misuse seems to have no consequences for the culprits. When (if) caught, disciplinary action is not predicated on the Douglas factors, but on whether upper management will support the action - and, with some employees being more equal than others, this is a major problem.
Going back to the bad old days where employees traveled on their own credit cards or cash advances might not be such a bad idea.
Tip of the iceberg
Administrative Officer USDA Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:37 AM
Having worked for USDA for 25 years, the problem is much larger than just credit card misuse!
Business as usual
Contract Specialist HHS Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:43 AM
I AM outraged. But I will not lose sleep, develop ulcers or otherwise spin myself into a tizzy over this. Why? Because this is US Federal Government business as usual as far as I can see. We have been hearing of abuses for years, some more egregious than the “kiting” scheme at Agriculture revealed by the IG. And what happens? Roughly, the same thing that occurred after the first IG revelation at Agriculture – nothing of substance. What about the loss of our astronauts because nobody bothered to truly check out what damage could be done to the shuttle after mere “foam” hit a wing at high velocity? There we lost people, a far more important asset than mere money. Geez, we have seen pictures of straws through trees as a result of mere hurricane winds. Where was common sense?
Frankly, the business of government has turned into how much can be extracted from the system with little if any penalty. However, there are some of us who refuse to play that game. It is not because we have superior ethics or consciences – it is because we know the difference between right and wrong; we use common sense; we do not look for every excuse under the sun to justify our actions. For us, we take full responsibility for our actions and the buck stops here.
You know what? I would not want to live in any other country. This place is the greatest. Unfortunately, our system is in disrepair – not broken – just in need of a serious tune-up. The problem is, no one in recent history - current administration included - has the ability, backing and probably security to take this country where it needs to go. Until that happens, I believe we will see more of what the IG revealed to us recently
Hold people accountable!
Program Manager USDA Forest Service Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:46 AM
The problem is accountability. There is no accountability and no one in a supervisor or top management takes the action necessary to deal with problems. If there is a problem then one needs a criminal investigation by the IG, not just a Report. The Department has the all of the authority it needs to correct the problem. Misusing a credit card which is for travel to attend bartending school is a gross misuse of Government funds and the IG needs to take aggressive action. I plain simple English deal with the problem and hold people accountable!
Re: Hold people accountable!
Observer Cabinet Department Tue Nov 9, 2004 8:19 AM
Like most, this writer doesn't understand the government travel charge card program. No Federal funds are involved. The bills are paid by the employee to whom the card is issued. If the employee doesn't pay the bills, the credit card company can arranged for payments to be deducted from the employee's salary, by going directly to the agency, without having to go through legal proceedings.
So the harm is to the credit card company, who is no doubt making plenty of profit from the huge majority of transactions that are paid timely - otherwise the company would not be participating in the program.
That's not to say employees who abuse the program shouldn't be disciplined - they should be and very often are. But readers here won't know about discipline because of the Privacy Act.
Did anyone check IG auditors?
retired HR official VA Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:52 AM
I too am outraged at the misuse of the Governement travel card. The introduction of the card made travel less complicated and if you could get your voucher in on time, you recieved your check in time to pay the credit card provider.
At our facility, our fiscal office reviewed the use and travelers knew that action was taken in cases of misuse. It was fairly easy and kept uses to legitmate transactions.
The reason for "no outrage" is that there are no massive direct "losses" to the agency since the card holders are responsible for the payment, not the agency. The credit card providers are the winners since they make their profit with greater use. The vendors are happy with goverment travelers buying their wares.
So what's the big deal? An employee uses his or her government credit card and the employees pays it off or gets dunned by the credit card provider. The Agriculture Department did not lose "$7.7 million"; it was just the employees who got a benefit by using their government position for personal gain in the form cash or purchases with no interest time to pay them off.
Anyone check the usage by the IG auditors?
USDA travel card employee speaks out
Human Resources Specialist USDA Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:52 AM
I work for USDA. My office handles travel card abuse.
The policy at our agency is that all employees who travel even one time have to use a credit card, and then they get to keep it. By the time that the abuse is caught, the spending is done. Discipline is taken when is it found, but getting the money back is near impossible. When I came on board at our agency, by the second day, I had an application for a travel card even though I've never travelled. But, I have the card. I hide it at home, so it won't be used, but it's active. But, what about those who have debt addictions, or debt problems. What a temptation!
Re: USDA travel card employee speaks out
Accountant USCG Thu May 6, 2004 3:29 PM
I would like to know why it is impossible to make the employee pay back his charges?
Re: USDA travel card employee speaks out
HR specialist cabinet department Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:37 PM
It is not impossible. These are not government funds - the employee is personally responsible to pay, just like a regular credit card. If the employee doesn't pay, the credit card company can request deduction from the employee's salary.
Dollars cited were not a real loss
Human Resources Officer DVA Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:55 AM
While I agree that the misuse of the cards is a serious issue and the individuals responsible for the inappropriate charges should be disciplined as severely as possible. However, it seems to me that to charaterize the charges as "losses" is not correct. Because the individuals involved used their cards for unauthorized purposes doesn't mean that they didn't make the payments due. What would be more enlightening would be information on how much of the charges were in default and how much of that amount Uncle Sam was required to pay. That amount would be a loss.
view from purchasing agent
PURCHASING AGENT DOD Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:59 AM
It just amazes me that nothing is ever done with the misuse of credit cards, be they travel or purchase. All they say is don't do it again and promote you. And the credit cards are not the entire problem. Because of reprisals people won't speak up and small business suffers.
outraged over abuse
Admin Contracting Officer DCMA Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:01 AM
I am a Gov't travel card user for official travel. I try very hard to not do any action that would be considered abusive. I am totally OUTRAGED over the abuse that has occurred. I wonder if this same abuse is occurring in other agencies. It is my opinion that those individuals that abused the travel card use should be terminated immediately, and if after investigation fraud has occurred the individual prosecuted to the FULL extent of the law. I could probably make a strong case for thievery and mis appropriation by the individuals involved.
Employee is accountable, not the government
Dept. of Education Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:05 AM
I finished reading your article published today on "government charge card abuse" at the Department of Agriculture. I get tired of reading these articles that surface time and time again about federal employees who abuse the use of government travel cards. The cards are in the employees' names. The employees have financial responsibility for payment of outstanding charges. The employees are accountable for the use and payment of charges. But, we call it a "government credit card." I have never understood this concept, because the employee is the one held accountable, not the government. There is a simple resolution to the problem. Get rid of government travel cards for federal employees to use and let the employee choose how he/she pays for their travel using whatever charge card they so desire. For two decades I traveled for the government and never used a government travel card because employees did not have them. We didn't need them before and we do not need them now, particularly with all the adverse publicity surrounding their use by employees. By the way, I have never abuse the use of my card. Also, I have never liked having the card because of the obligation of protecting the card from theft, loss, and inadvertent misuse because it is in my wallet with all my other cards. I really do not care to have the card and I believe many employees feel the way that I do.
Where's the justice?
Health Systems Specialist Army Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:08 AM
I knew credit card abuses existed but I never realized how widespread the problem. Unfortunately, there's a penalty to be paid when abuses are pointed out, and it's not always paid by the one doing the abuse. There seems to be a network of cover ups going on. A former active duty Army co-worker's husband pointed out some irregularities on credit card abuses and was rewarded by being removed from his leadership position of an elite group of soldiers in Germany, labelled as a trouble maker and quickly transferred to the states. Where's the justice in this scenario?
What a travesty!
Review Examiner FDIC Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:09 AM
I agree that the federal credit card abuse warrants outrage of some kind. At the FDIC I feel confident that every employee knows that any abuse of the Corporate credit card could and most likely will result in firing. We take use of the government card very seriously and I am flabbergasted and extremely disappointed that other government employees don't treat it the same way. I find it ironic that such abuse is not tolerated at our agency who doesn't even receive its funding from tax dollars, but from deposit insurance assessments to banks, but is tolerated at agencies that are directly funded by tax dollars. This is a travesty.
Government not responsible for charges
Fiscal Management Analyst Social Security Admin Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:17 AM
Misuse of government travel cards IS an outrage, and it is widespread throughout many agencies. The culprits ought to be severely disciplined. However, the article implies that the government foots the bill for all of these unauthorized charges to travel cards. Not so. According to the travel card contract with GSA, government agencies are NOT liable to credit card contractors for unauthorized and/or delinquent debt charged to travel cards (government purchase cards are different). In the case of travel card misuse/delinquency, it's the credit card company that loses out -- not the agency. The guilty employee is personally liable to the credit card contractor for ALL charges to his/her travel card. This is probably why many agencies do not devote enough resources to monitor their employees' travel card debt. It's not a government liability. This attitude must change if the agencies are to restore public faith in government.
Doing too much with too little
Information Specialist Social Security Administration Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:28 AM
What has happened at the Department of Agriculture is terrible, and must be rectified within 6 months. And, of course, the offenders (and the Department itself) should be prosecuted. Why did it happen? Maybe, just maybe, because of the problem which happens in too many agencies and businesses--we try to do too much with too little people, we're too selfish, we're too lazy, we're just plain PIGS! And, while these people are lavishing in their ill-gotten gains, 35,000 people die daily from starvation! God have mercy on the cheaters at Agriculture and on all of us who suffer because of those who don't care.
Article based on unsupported facts
Management Analyst USDA Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:28 AM
It does not take a statistician to be dumbfounded by the author's "potential loss" numbers, a 4th grader would be. If the total amount spent by all 55,000 cardholders during the 6-month period was $78.5 million how can there be a "potential loss" of $1.4 billion. If 100% of the expenditures were improper the most "loss" you could have is $78.5 million, about $1.3 billion less than her projection. Before you express the outrage, please at least make sure your claims are not just as outrageous. Also, as far as I know, the agencies are not responsible for paying for the improper charges made by employees against their travel cards. The employees are still responsible for paying these charges, unless they tried to claim them on the travel vouchers that they submitted. If this is the case, then there truely is a lack of controls at those agencies within Agriculture for reviewing travel expenditures claimed.
Misuse of travel cards is a problem, but articles like this that are based on unsupported claims and not facts about how the travel card system really works, only confounds the issue, not resolve it.
Saddened by IG report
Human Resources Specialist DHS Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:28 AM
Having had to discipline and even fire individuals for abuse and/or delinquency of their Contractor issued Government Travel Charge Card, I am not surprised by the Argiculture IG report but am still saddened by it. Our administrative staff throughout our HQ and regional offices constantly monitor and address abuse and delinquency and it still occurs. I appreciate the comments about going back to the "old way" of travel but it is not feasible with a staff of 6,000 intermittent employees who are willing to drop what they are doing and respond to disasters throughout the US. We do turn "on" and "off" the credit cards to limit abuse when employees are not deployed (traveling). I know other agencies work just as hard trying to overcome this problem - and yet it continues. I do appreciate the strong stand that DHS/FEMA takes in this matter.
Outraged as taxpayer, embarassed as Fed. employee
Human Resources Specialist Department of the Interior Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:54 AM
I'm outraged and agree. I can't believe people haven't been fired for this. My supervisors have always looked over my charge card statement and signed off on them. I'm sure they would notice ANYTHING that looked questionable. I'm embarassed as a Federal employee that other Federal employees are stealing and getting away with it. I'm outraged, as a taxpayer, when we are so indebt as a country & this abuse goes on & is allowed to continue. If you are a federal employee and misuse your credit card - you should be fired, plain & simple. If you are the supervisor that allowed it you should also be fired, or at the very least be suspended without pay for at least a month. What a horrible example this sets for other employees and new employees coming into Federal service. It makes all of us look bad.
No honor or integrity in government anymore
Director DOD - Child Care Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:00 AM
Where is the outrage? Look at the headline about this one about the Impasse member of the FSIP being arrested. Look at the number of things to be outraged about -theft of government property, building decks with stolen government lumber, a general demanding a $15,000 refrigerator and renovation of his quarters, complete with furniture, more than 4 times in two years. What good does it to be outraged? The people at the top don't care and won't make waves, and those of us who complain to the IG or the Fraud, Waste and Abuse lines end up being pariahs of the organization and retaliated against by our supervisors. There is no sense of honor or integrity left in government service anymore, and the few people who feel strongly and worn down into submission. That's why there's no outrage.
Cries out for disciplinary action
HR Consultant Retired Federal Employee Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:08 AM
Am I surprised? No! No management controls, no effort to create any management controls, and employees who are willing to take advantage of the situation. This cries out for disciplinary action, including removal of the worst offenders. Only when the wrongdoers are punished will the rest of the agency get the message. But I don't expect to live that long.
IRS employees limited in purchases
Tax Compliance Officer IRS Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:08 AM
I agree if it is a travel card that is being missused that the employee has to pay the money back to the credit card company, if they can. However, when a story like this runs, the general public does not realize this, (evidently not even some gov't employees realize this from the comments.) It just makes all government employees look bad and the public thinks we are using their tax dollars for personal use.
In the IRS we are strictly limited by where we can purchase. I tried to get breakfast once at a bakery and my card was denied. When I called to check on it, I was told this was a banned establishment. I also cannot buy gas at some grocery stores. Why can't some of these other agencies have bans built into their system? I can't imagine what would happen if I tried to charge bartender school or a tatoo.
I do agree that the punishment should be more severe, as these employees signed agreements when they got their cards about the useage. If they can't be ethical in this, can they be ethical in anything?
Re: IRS employees limited in purchases
IRS Agent/Union Steward IRS Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:51 AM
Working at the IRS makes you realize one thing, that the IRS is the cheapest, meanest, stingiest government agency. The gentleman's comments about not being able to purchase certain items and purchases not being allowed at certain establishments is entirely correct. Although it doesn't mean there cannot be any abuse at the IRS, why can't other agencies institute similar controls on their employees. As an agent working to collect tax dollars to fund the entire government it infuriates me to no end that other employees are abusing the system for personal gain. Firing and making complete restitution should not only be mandatory but there should be punitive damages assessed against these criminals. They should be banished from the country.
Get rid of offending employees and the cards
Human Resources Specialist Office of the Secretary, DOI Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:11 AM
I agree with the response one reader made that government charge cards for travel should be done away with.
Let the employee use their own card since they are responsible for it. Obviously there are quite a few employees in all agencies that can't be trusted with a government credit card - so get rid of the cards. I'd get rid of the employees who misused the card too.
government received income from charges
investigator labor Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:41 AM
Although some of the comments referred to the fact that the individuals are responsible for the usage. The article did not make that clear. Who pays the bill? If the individual pays the bill and does not submit the charges for payment we have a violation of usage, and a reprimand should be given. If the government pays the bill, with personal charges, as submitted on the credit card statement the employee should be dismissed for FRAUDULANT travel expenses paid by the government.
It is my understanding that the government receives a rebate based on usuage. If so the government received income for these charges.
Finally, those of us that have cards (I do) and prefer not to use them, should be allowed to use their own cards and not be responsible for the government card. My card stays in the office most of the time. I may travel a few days a month or less.
how can government card be used against a person's credit?
Director DOD-DCA Lodging Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:49 AM
How did a credit card ever become a condition of employment anyway? If it's paid late, because of delayed reimbursement, it goes against the individual's credit rating. And the total amount on the card is considered as potential debt when the individual applies for a loan. I have always wondered how this combination of a card required for work going against a personal credit rating can be legal. Anyone have any ideas?
Re: how can government card be used against a person's credit?
IRS Agent/Union Steward IRS Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:59 AM
A government credit card is not mandatory. I refused to obtain one a few years ago. I had to travel out of town to attend a training course and was told I had to obtain one. I refused, requesting an advance against my travel, hotel and meals cost as I had done all my working life. I was told to request the government card again. Again I refused telling my boss that if I could not attend the course on an advance then he could find a replacement for me. Guess what? I attended, paying all my bills on my personal credit card which was reimbursed by Uncle. Why should my credit be affected if I'm reimbursed late and why should my personal credit information be available to a supervisor or credit card officials.
Accountability is important
Accounting Tech US Coast Guard Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:55 AM
Your last paragraph says exactly what I have been saying all along. I worked for another agency in the past who allowed illegal purchases also. I had a travel and purchase card too. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO ACCOUNTABILITY!!!! And, it's management. It upsets me to no end to think my job could be eliminated yet these thiefs still are doing business as usual. I guess many have no conscience or ethics. I would like to know what is USDA's excuse???? I am sure one of the many incompetent managers must have some excuse.
There are no winners
PHRS HUD Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:57 AM
Several of the respondents have noted that it is the responsibility of the card holder to pay the bill. THis does not make everything alright. As taxpayers, we may not be being the brunt of this abuse directly. But the federal government is an "enabler" in this process by not instituting adequate internal controls.
Ultimately though, we all pay the price when the credit card companies and the small businesses pass their losses on to other customers.
It disgusts me to know that this blatent misuse of taxpayers dollars has been going on in this agency. Those that are guilty should be fired and made to pay back the money that they charged.
supervisors are at fault
Machinist DOD Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:30 PM
The supervisors and managers of these supposed criminals are the individuals that should be held accountable and not just asked if they trained and briefed the violators. Had they been reviewing the travel vouchers and other related documentation including expenditure ledgers and organization billing, then taking appropriate corrective action, the problem would not have evolved into a wide spred fraud, waste and abuse situation. That's what happens when supervisors and managers are hired because they will say yes to anything and never disagree or out their foot down as dedicated citizens should on behalf of the taxpayers.
Difficult to convince Feds that ethics are best policy
Information Security Officer Department of Veterans Affairs Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:53 PM
The article 's credibility suffers from shaky arithmetic and some degree of specious logic, but I do not question that there is widespread "waste, fraud and abuse" inherent in the use of credit cards, both "travel" and "purchase" within the Federal sector of the economy. The credit card system put in place, by policy, in the VA superceded an automated system that had clearly defined controls in place that limited and forced review of purchases by those authorized to make both minor and major purchases. The credit card system that replaced that new, innovative and good system is fraught with flaws, gives purchase authority to untrained purchasers, and probably has increased the cost of goods and services bought by VA by at least 20% across the board. All this, of course, to "reduce the administrative costs of making purchases, to recoup a percentage of all monies spent by government through credit cards, and to privatize the procurement process through the use of commercial instrumentalities of trade" The government generally does not check or control the purchases made on purchase cards for rationality and best price the way we formerly did, and, while fraud probably is not a big issue with the purchase cards, waste definitely is an issue, and one that is difficult to quantify. Travel cards in the VA tend to be better controlled than is apparently the case in the Department of Agriculture, but, when fraud or abuse does take place I have no confidence that clear and decisive action will be taken to make the individuals who abuse their government credit cards realize the error of their ways; it particularly amuses me to see comments from HR officials urging decisive action on abuse cases, because HR officials are one of the prime reasons that managers cannot take the firm and decisive action required by flagrant abuse. While a manager, I often found myself thwarted by HR practices that were not in keeping with anything clear or decisive when it came to imposing discipline upon staff whose actions well warranted stringent disciplinary measures. With the best will in the world it is difficult for Federal managers to convince employees that ethicality is the best policy. I don't condone DOA, or any other department's apparent ignoring of this sort of problem, but I do know how difficult it is to achieve correction.
Inappropropriate use of our travel card is well inappropriate, but I believe that you are distorting the truth. You make it sound that the government paid for all those items. Like all USDA employees, the bill for my USDA Travel Card comes to my home and I pay it from my personal checking acount. Yes, it would be inappropriate for a person to buy a $20,000 car with the credit card and that needs to be stopped, but if the person paid the bill within 30 days, you make it sound like the person stole $20K from the federal government. I think "counseling" or giving a letter of reprimand to this employee is the appropriate action. If they did not pay their bill, they should be arrested, but probably all in your examples paid their bills.
Outraged but not surprised
Lack of Controls DOI - Charge Card Coordinator Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:27 PM
The main problem is with a lack of controls and supervisors who are to darn busy to do their job of reviewing their employees statements. If you put to much temptation in front of all most anyone they will take advantage of the system. We have re-established most of the controls that went away with this new contract and will pursue anyone in our agency that is caught misusing the card for either purchase or travel. When employees lose jobs and are prosecuted along with the approving official who should be watching the statements, these kinds of things will begin to decline. Am I outraged? - Yes, Am I surprised? - Not in the least.
what's the point of a government card?
Science Technician USDA Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:24 PM
What I don't understand is why the fed insists that credit cards (for purchasing, travel, whatever) be issued in the employees' names, making the employees personally responsible for paying them before being reimbursed. If they have to pay the bills first, why not just have them use personal cards first off? What's the point of having a government card?
Also, not all employees seem to have equal opportunities with credit cards. This varie primarily per superivisor, but there may be other factors as well.
This USDA organization takes disciplinary action
Hum Res Mngr USDA - Rural Development Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:35 PM
I am also outraged and embarrased as a taxpayer, Federal employee and HR Mngr that has to deal with the disciplinary actions resulting from these abuses. Not all employees in all agencies of USDA are abusing their Govt Credit Card and getting away with it. Our agency has been disciplining employees that abuse their Govt Credit Cards for several years from Letters of Caution or Reprimand, to Suspension to Removal depending on the degree of abuse. I also agree that this abuse is fraud and stealing (no interest or late payment charges) and should be dealt with accordingly because if you are not ethical in something that is consistently reviewed by others, how ethical are you going to be in your daily work duties.
differences in kinds of cards issued by govt.
Branch Chief SSA Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:32 PM
I find it troubling when I read articles like this which don't differentiate between government travel cards (for which the employee is responsible for the bill) and government credit cards (for which the government pays the bill). It is quite true that employees are not allowed to use their travel cards for anything but official travel. I work for the Social Security Administration and generally we have effective methods of controlling the use of the cards and detecting any misuse or past due bills early on. For example, if an employee is not expected to travel for a while, we reduce their credit limit to $1.00, to prevent any misuse between official trips. Unfortunately, many of the articles about credit card misuse would lead the reader to believe that when government travel cards are misused, the government is charged. This is not true. The employee is responsible for the charges. Consequently, if employees misuse the cards, it is more of an administrative issue rather than an issue of fraud or theft since the government would never be responsible for the bill. Even if an employee does not pay the bill timely, the role of the government is limited to ensuring the employee pays the bill and enforcing disciplinary actions when the situation justifies.
This is not true of what we refer to as the "office credit cards". The cards are used to pay for office equipment, supplies, training etc. and the costs are paid directly by the government. Again, there are adequate controls, which if used, should prevent almost all misuse of these cards. Misuse of this card is a far, far more serious offense that use of the employee's government travelcard. An employee who uses this card for personal gain, essentially is guilty of theft.
Additionally, there is a GSA "gas" credit card which also is paid for the government. This card is only for use to buy gas and for minor card of government cards. It requires the user to input an odometer reading and the tag number of the government before a purchase can be authorized. At least locally, GSA monitors these credit cards monthly and reports any possible discrepancies to the agency with the responsibility for the car.
As a federal employee who takes a lot of pride in my work and my agency, I don't like to see articles that would mislead the public and make offenses in this area worse than they are. While there are obviously areas that need improvement - in some agencies very significant improvements - it should be noted that the government is not always responsible for the bills when some types of credit cards are misused.
white collar crime is condoned
Field Officer Social Security Admin Thu Jul 17, 2003 4:24 PM
Please. Wake up. There is nothing to be outraged about. We live in a republic where white collar crime is condoned. The fat cats get richer by scamming. That is American capitalism.
WHen someone commits a fraud on SSA, like claiming to be disabled under three different names and Social Security numbers and works under a forth, if caught, he is put on probation for six months and told he has to pay back the $150,000 he improperly took. Americans love a crook who takes from the public trough.
My money says that the employee who was counseled for improper use was probably a high management official, and the couseling took place because soemthing had to be done in response to public awareness/pressure.
This is America where the best way to fulfill the dream of wealth is to cheat the system. Just no guns or weapons of mass destruction. please - unless you are the American government of course, which is justified to develop and use such for the personal interests of those in power.
Culture problem at USDA
Exercise Planner USAF Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:08 AM
First of all, the travel card program was a stupid idea to start with and still is. There are a certain percentage of employees who could never have a credit card of their own because they are mature/responsible enough to handle it. Just because of their job, we give them one with no questions.
On the other hand, it is obvious that there is a culture problem at USDA, or at least parts of it. Some people need to be fired, including in the higher management ranks. They are the ones who need to be controlling this problem.
Finally, I have kicked some good young, and not so young, people out because of Travel Card abuses. Other than that, they were really good employees and would have been for a long time. I didn't have the option of whether to give them the card or not. That should be a supervisor option. Compared to the lost training cost, recruiting cost, etc., the amount we get back is not worth the problems. Get rid of the program entirely.
Loss to the government?
Workforce Development Specialist DCMA Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:37 AM
None of the articles/comments I read indicated whether these people who used their cards for unauthorized purchases were paying off their cards each month. Was this a real loss to the government or was it the amount of unauthorized uses.
Abuse will not stop until people are held accountable
Management Analyst USN Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:34 AM
Where's the outrage? It's stifled and a part of the growing apathy of the public. Most people figure there's not too much they can do about a situation like this, and they're right. This kind of abuse will not stop until people are held accountable for their deplorable behavior. Until we are willing to do that and make the punishment fit the crime we can continue to expect abuse of the public trust.
Fraud is still fraud
Human Resources Specialist Commerce Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:55 PM
You bet...where is the outrage! I can recall while working for a Defense contractor, the Fed Government inspectors would just love to catch someone "mischarging" his or her time to the wrong defense contract...whether deliberately or accidentally...and go after the firm and private sector employee for Fraud against the Government. Some of these cases were for miniscule sums and often were not deliberate. Serious penalties and sanctions were sought and imposed. Why not the same standard (or a higher standard) for Federal employees? Anyway you cut it, it is fraud against the Government.
I have read several reports on abuse of the credit card by government employees and it is crazy there are no controls. When the regulation came out making it mandatory for all travel be paid by the credit card it made it easy for people to obtain cards and abuse it. The mandatory use of the credit card should be done away with to eliminate this costly abuse. Read an article where the DOD had 34 million wiped off as bad debt - this is stupid - why didn't it taken out of their paychecks. What does this tell America? Charge all and get it wiped off the books.
Agriculture
Management Advisor FDA Fri Jul 9, 2004 8:59 AM
The last I heard, Agriculture did not know how many employees they had and had no idea how to find out. So how could you possibly expect them to oversee credit card abuse as well as travel card abuse.
Lack of morals
Civil servant retired Retired Fri Nov 5, 2004 9:09 AM
The whole problem is caused by lack of personal morals and accountability. The people who think they get away with these actions will eventually have to answer to a higher judge.
credit card
DHS DHS Fri Nov 5, 2004 1:41 PM
People who abuse their gov's credit card.... should be fired and take the card away from them and no.... promotion for them and make them pay for the damages. If they are the favorite.... most likely will keep everything. This is Wrong!!!!! Boss...need to be more aggressive about the gov's credit cards at all time.
a bit of outrage over the situation at Agriculture
engineer (retired) USFS Thu Nov 3, 2005 11:53 AM
I'm outraged! In case it hasn't been suggested yet (I doubt that) how about
holding management responsible for their employee's travel indescretions as well as fix the card to only personal lodging and meals.
I have a theory also. It's a dirty little secret amounst, otherwise, decent individuals and alot of them! It's call legalized gambling these days. I'm wondering how much of the "front money" (travel card ATM $) is being played in the lottery and casinos?
credit card
forestry technician usda forest service Fri Nov 4, 2005 11:18 PM
it is stupid to give out these cards. in our agency i know of many people who have made numerous personal purchases with them and absolutely nothing happens to them. be a stupid kid off the streets of l.a. one day the next day you are a big, brave mached out fire fighter with a government credit to impress your gang banger friends with. thats the way my agency works. man i cannot wait to retire and be with normal people!
federal credit card abuse/misuse
Program Specialist VHA Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:55 AM
Well isn't it apparent that the IG, altho they are supposed to be respected and feared, have no authority whatsoever to make anyone accountable for their actions? Why even bother if nothing will ever happen as a result of their findings? I am with you. IS ANYONE WATCHING IN DC? They talk about a deficit, well they are allowing it to happen, right under their noses without even a sniffle. Our current administration (along with those in the past I'm sure) are not concerned with anything that even has a hint of unethical behavior. Maybe they are afraid if they uncover some rocks they might find some of their own skeletons there also. It has been going on for so long that it's now the norm and not unusual, even expected. I don't understand how they can keep doing this with the taxpayers money and no one makes even a gesture to look into it! I have become sorely dissappointed with our government. I don't really think they care about anything anymore. Much less this country!
Issuing these cards to everyone just opened the gates to fraud. I saw just about everything charged to these cards, up to and including Las Vegas casino outings (from a Field Team sent to Nellis AFB to modify acft). Recently I was standing in line at a Lowe's garden shop, and the guy ahead of me told the cashier (who was having trouble verifying his credit card) -"Well, the Base just issued it to me this morning! " He was buying yard plants and garden things. He couldn't even wait until the end of the day to use the card!! (It is ONLY for TDY use for these employees on Base). The punishment when caught? Verbal admonishment, if anything. I saw cases of $20,000 get written off by the Base. Where indeed is the outrage??? Certainly not at operating level.
Fire those responsible
IRS
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:13 AM
fire and jail them!
Re: Fire those responsible
USCG
Thu May 6, 2004 3:33 PM
We're no worse than other agencies
USDA
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:20 AM
Admittedly, there are problems with USDA's Credit Card problem, but I think the problem is widespread across all agencies. If you're gonna go off at Ag, ,let's give the other agencies the same treatment, please.
SSA doesn't have travel card problem
SSA
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:32 AM
This is not true in every agency. Our agency closely monitors travel card use.
Hear! Hear!
US FIsh & Wildlife Service
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:33 AM
Hear! Hear! I cannot disagree with any of Ms. Smith's outrage, only vent some of my own.
As a dinosaur who remembers the days when there were no Government credit cards, I was at first puzzled, but am now outraged, by both the Government's and the credit card company's willingness to hand out plastic like candy - without so much as a credit history check. Incredibly irresponsible behavior in a world where 5 figure credit card debt seems to be the norm!
I'm also outraged that an act of Congress mandated the use of the Government credit card, without an accompnaying mandate to provide the resources to review usage.
And, as someone who tries to work with management in dealing with employee misconduct (such as misuse of the Government credit card), I am further outraged that misuse seems to have no consequences for the culprits. When (if) caught, disciplinary action is not predicated on the Douglas factors, but on whether upper management will support the action - and, with some employees being more equal than others, this is a major problem.
Going back to the bad old days where employees traveled on their own credit cards or cash advances might not be such a bad idea.
Tip of the iceberg
USDA
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:37 AM
Having worked for USDA for 25 years, the problem is much larger than just credit card misuse!
Business as usual
HHS
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:43 AM
I AM outraged. But I will not lose sleep, develop ulcers or otherwise spin myself into a tizzy over this. Why? Because this is US Federal Government business as usual as far as I can see. We have been hearing of abuses for years, some more egregious than the “kiting” scheme at Agriculture revealed by the IG. And what happens? Roughly, the same thing that occurred after the first IG revelation at Agriculture – nothing of substance. What about the loss of our astronauts because nobody bothered to truly check out what damage could be done to the shuttle after mere “foam” hit a wing at high velocity? There we lost people, a far more important asset than mere money. Geez, we have seen pictures of straws through trees as a result of mere hurricane winds. Where was common sense?
Frankly, the business of government has turned into how much can be extracted from the system with little if any penalty. However, there are some of us who refuse to play that game. It is not because we have superior ethics or consciences – it is because we know the difference between right and wrong; we use common sense; we do not look for every excuse under the sun to justify our actions. For us, we take full responsibility for our actions and the buck stops here.
You know what? I would not want to live in any other country. This place is the greatest. Unfortunately, our system is in disrepair – not broken – just in need of a serious tune-up. The problem is, no one in recent history - current administration included - has the ability, backing and probably security to take this country where it needs to go. Until that happens, I believe we will see more of what the IG revealed to us recently
Hold people accountable!
USDA Forest Service
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:46 AM
The problem is accountability. There is no accountability and no one in a supervisor or top management takes the action necessary to deal with problems. If there is a problem then one needs a criminal investigation by the IG, not just a Report. The Department has the all of the authority it needs to correct the problem. Misusing a credit card which is for travel to attend bartending school is a gross misuse of Government funds and the IG needs to take aggressive action. I plain simple English deal with the problem and hold people accountable!
Re: Hold people accountable!
Cabinet Department
Tue Nov 9, 2004 8:19 AM
So the harm is to the credit card company, who is no doubt making plenty of profit from the huge majority of transactions that are paid timely - otherwise the company would not be participating in the program.
That's not to say employees who abuse the program shouldn't be disciplined - they should be and very often are. But readers here won't know about discipline because of the Privacy Act.
Did anyone check IG auditors?
VA
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:52 AM
I too am outraged at the misuse of the Governement travel card. The introduction of the card made travel less complicated and if you could get your voucher in on time, you recieved your check in time to pay the credit card provider.
At our facility, our fiscal office reviewed the use and travelers knew that action was taken in cases of misuse. It was fairly easy and kept uses to legitmate transactions.
The reason for "no outrage" is that there are no massive direct "losses" to the agency since the card holders are responsible for the payment, not the agency. The credit card providers are the winners since they make their profit with greater use. The vendors are happy with goverment travelers buying their wares.
So what's the big deal? An employee uses his or her government credit card and the employees pays it off or gets dunned by the credit card provider. The Agriculture Department did not lose "$7.7 million"; it was just the employees who got a benefit by using their government position for personal gain in the form cash or purchases with no interest time to pay them off.
Anyone check the usage by the IG auditors?
USDA travel card employee speaks out
USDA
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:52 AM
I work for USDA. My office handles travel card abuse.
The policy at our agency is that all employees who travel even one time have to use a credit card, and then they get to keep it. By the time that the abuse is caught, the spending is done. Discipline is taken when is it found, but getting the money back is near impossible. When I came on board at our agency, by the second day, I had an application for a travel card even though I've never travelled. But, I have the card. I hide it at home, so it won't be used, but it's active. But, what about those who have debt addictions, or debt problems. What a temptation!
Re: USDA travel card employee speaks out
USCG
Thu May 6, 2004 3:29 PM
Re: USDA travel card employee speaks out
cabinet department
Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:37 PM
Dollars cited were not a real loss
DVA
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:55 AM
While I agree that the misuse of the cards is a serious issue and the individuals responsible for the inappropriate charges should be disciplined as severely as possible. However, it seems to me that to charaterize the charges as "losses" is not correct. Because the individuals involved used their cards for unauthorized purposes doesn't mean that they didn't make the payments due. What would be more enlightening would be information on how much of the charges were in default and how much of that amount Uncle Sam was required to pay. That amount would be a loss.
view from purchasing agent
DOD
Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:59 AM
It just amazes me that nothing is ever done with the misuse of credit cards, be they travel or purchase. All they say is don't do it again and promote you. And the credit cards are not the entire problem. Because of reprisals people won't speak up and small business suffers.
outraged over abuse
DCMA
Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:01 AM
I am a Gov't travel card user for official travel. I try very hard to not do any action that would be considered abusive. I am totally OUTRAGED over the abuse that has occurred. I wonder if this same abuse is occurring in other agencies. It is my opinion that those individuals that abused the travel card use should be terminated immediately, and if after investigation fraud has occurred the individual prosecuted to the FULL extent of the law. I could probably make a strong case for thievery and mis appropriation by the individuals involved.
Employee is accountable, not the government
Dept. of Education
Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:05 AM
I finished reading your article published today on "government charge card abuse" at the Department of Agriculture. I get tired of reading these articles that surface time and time again about federal employees who abuse the use of government travel cards. The cards are in the employees' names. The employees have financial responsibility for payment of outstanding charges. The employees are accountable for the use and payment of charges. But, we call it a "government credit card." I have never understood this concept, because the employee is the one held accountable, not the government. There is a simple resolution to the problem. Get rid of government travel cards for federal employees to use and let the employee choose how he/she pays for their travel using whatever charge card they so desire. For two decades I traveled for the government and never used a government travel card because employees did not have them. We didn't need them before and we do not need them now, particularly with all the adverse publicity surrounding their use by employees. By the way, I have never abuse the use of my card. Also, I have never liked having the card because of the obligation of protecting the card from theft, loss, and inadvertent misuse because it is in my wallet with all my other cards. I really do not care to have the card and I believe many employees feel the way that I do.
Where's the justice?
Army
Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:08 AM
I knew credit card abuses existed but I never realized how widespread the problem. Unfortunately, there's a penalty to be paid when abuses are pointed out, and it's not always paid by the one doing the abuse. There seems to be a network of cover ups going on. A former active duty Army co-worker's husband pointed out some irregularities on credit card abuses and was rewarded by being removed from his leadership position of an elite group of soldiers in Germany, labelled as a trouble maker and quickly transferred to the states. Where's the justice in this scenario?
What a travesty!
FDIC
Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:09 AM
I agree that the federal credit card abuse warrants outrage of some kind. At the FDIC I feel confident that every employee knows that any abuse of the Corporate credit card could and most likely will result in firing. We take use of the government card very seriously and I am flabbergasted and extremely disappointed that other government employees don't treat it the same way. I find it ironic that such abuse is not tolerated at our agency who doesn't even receive its funding from tax dollars, but from deposit insurance assessments to banks, but is tolerated at agencies that are directly funded by tax dollars. This is a travesty.
Government not responsible for charges
Social Security Admin
Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:17 AM
Misuse of government travel cards IS an outrage, and it is widespread throughout many agencies. The culprits ought to be severely disciplined. However, the article implies that the government foots the bill for all of these unauthorized charges to travel cards. Not so. According to the travel card contract with GSA, government agencies are NOT liable to credit card contractors for unauthorized and/or delinquent debt charged to travel cards (government purchase cards are different). In the case of travel card misuse/delinquency, it's the credit card company that loses out -- not the agency. The guilty employee is personally liable to the credit card contractor for ALL charges to his/her travel card. This is probably why many agencies do not devote enough resources to monitor their employees' travel card debt. It's not a government liability. This attitude must change if the agencies are to restore public faith in government.
Doing too much with too little
Social Security Administration
Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:28 AM
What has happened at the Department of Agriculture is terrible, and must be rectified within 6 months. And, of course, the offenders (and the Department itself) should be prosecuted. Why did it happen? Maybe, just maybe, because of the problem which happens in too many agencies and businesses--we try to do too much with too little people, we're too selfish, we're too lazy, we're just plain PIGS! And, while these people are lavishing in their ill-gotten gains, 35,000 people die daily from starvation! God have mercy on the cheaters at Agriculture and on all of us who suffer because of those who don't care.
Article based on unsupported facts
USDA
Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:28 AM
It does not take a statistician to be dumbfounded by the author's "potential loss" numbers, a 4th grader would be. If the total amount spent by all 55,000 cardholders during the 6-month period was $78.5 million how can there be a "potential loss" of $1.4 billion. If 100% of the expenditures were improper the most "loss" you could have is $78.5 million, about $1.3 billion less than her projection. Before you express the outrage, please at least make sure your claims are not just as outrageous. Also, as far as I know, the agencies are not responsible for paying for the improper charges made by employees against their travel cards. The employees are still responsible for paying these charges, unless they tried to claim them on the travel vouchers that they submitted. If this is the case, then there truely is a lack of controls at those agencies within Agriculture for reviewing travel expenditures claimed.
Misuse of travel cards is a problem, but articles like this that are based on unsupported claims and not facts about how the travel card system really works, only confounds the issue, not resolve it.
Saddened by IG report
DHS
Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:28 AM
Having had to discipline and even fire individuals for abuse and/or delinquency of their Contractor issued Government Travel Charge Card, I am not surprised by the Argiculture IG report but am still saddened by it. Our administrative staff throughout our HQ and regional offices constantly monitor and address abuse and delinquency and it still occurs. I appreciate the comments about going back to the "old way" of travel but it is not feasible with a staff of 6,000 intermittent employees who are willing to drop what they are doing and respond to disasters throughout the US. We do turn "on" and "off" the credit cards to limit abuse when employees are not deployed (traveling). I know other agencies work just as hard trying to overcome this problem - and yet it continues. I do appreciate the strong stand that DHS/FEMA takes in this matter.
Outraged as taxpayer, embarassed as Fed. employee
Department of the Interior
Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:54 AM
I'm outraged and agree. I can't believe people haven't been fired for this. My supervisors have always looked over my charge card statement and signed off on them. I'm sure they would notice ANYTHING that looked questionable. I'm embarassed as a Federal employee that other Federal employees are stealing and getting away with it. I'm outraged, as a taxpayer, when we are so indebt as a country & this abuse goes on & is allowed to continue. If you are a federal employee and misuse your credit card - you should be fired, plain & simple. If you are the supervisor that allowed it you should also be fired, or at the very least be suspended without pay for at least a month. What a horrible example this sets for other employees and new employees coming into Federal service. It makes all of us look bad.
No honor or integrity in government anymore
DOD - Child Care
Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:00 AM
Where is the outrage? Look at the headline about this one about the Impasse member of the FSIP being arrested. Look at the number of things to be outraged about -theft of government property, building decks with stolen government lumber, a general demanding a $15,000 refrigerator and renovation of his quarters, complete with furniture, more than 4 times in two years. What good does it to be outraged? The people at the top don't care and won't make waves, and those of us who complain to the IG or the Fraud, Waste and Abuse lines end up being pariahs of the organization and retaliated against by our supervisors. There is no sense of honor or integrity left in government service anymore, and the few people who feel strongly and worn down into submission. That's why there's no outrage.
Cries out for disciplinary action
Retired Federal Employee
Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:08 AM
Am I surprised? No! No management controls, no effort to create any management controls, and employees who are willing to take advantage of the situation. This cries out for disciplinary action, including removal of the worst offenders. Only when the wrongdoers are punished will the rest of the agency get the message. But I don't expect to live that long.
IRS employees limited in purchases
IRS
Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:08 AM
I agree if it is a travel card that is being missused that the employee has to pay the money back to the credit card company, if they can. However, when a story like this runs, the general public does not realize this, (evidently not even some gov't employees realize this from the comments.) It just makes all government employees look bad and the public thinks we are using their tax dollars for personal use.
In the IRS we are strictly limited by where we can purchase. I tried to get breakfast once at a bakery and my card was denied. When I called to check on it, I was told this was a banned establishment. I also cannot buy gas at some grocery stores. Why can't some of these other agencies have bans built into their system? I can't imagine what would happen if I tried to charge bartender school or a tatoo.
I do agree that the punishment should be more severe, as these employees signed agreements when they got their cards about the useage. If they can't be ethical in this, can they be ethical in anything?
Re: IRS employees limited in purchases
IRS
Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:51 AM
Get rid of offending employees and the cards
Office of the Secretary, DOI
Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:11 AM
I agree with the response one reader made that government charge cards for travel should be done away with.
Let the employee use their own card since they are responsible for it. Obviously there are quite a few employees in all agencies that can't be trusted with a government credit card - so get rid of the cards. I'd get rid of the employees who misused the card too.
government received income from charges
labor
Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:41 AM
Although some of the comments referred to the fact that the individuals are responsible for the usage. The article did not make that clear. Who pays the bill? If the individual pays the bill and does not submit the charges for payment we have a violation of usage, and a reprimand should be given. If the government pays the bill, with personal charges, as submitted on the credit card statement the employee should be dismissed for FRAUDULANT travel expenses paid by the government.
It is my understanding that the government receives a rebate based on usuage. If so the government received income for these charges.
Finally, those of us that have cards (I do) and prefer not to use them, should be allowed to use their own cards and not be responsible for the government card. My card stays in the office most of the time. I may travel a few days a month or less.
how can government card be used against a person's credit?
DOD-DCA Lodging
Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:49 AM
How did a credit card ever become a condition of employment anyway? If it's paid late, because of delayed reimbursement, it goes against the individual's credit rating. And the total amount on the card is considered as potential debt when the individual applies for a loan. I have always wondered how this combination of a card required for work going against a personal credit rating can be legal. Anyone have any ideas?
Re: how can government card be used against a person's credit?
IRS
Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:59 AM
Accountability is important
US Coast Guard
Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:55 AM
Your last paragraph says exactly what I have been saying all along. I worked for another agency in the past who allowed illegal purchases also. I had a travel and purchase card too. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO ACCOUNTABILITY!!!! And, it's management. It upsets me to no end to think my job could be eliminated yet these thiefs still are doing business as usual. I guess many have no conscience or ethics. I would like to know what is USDA's excuse???? I am sure one of the many incompetent managers must have some excuse.
There are no winners
HUD
Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:57 AM
Several of the respondents have noted that it is the responsibility of the card holder to pay the bill. THis does not make everything alright. As taxpayers, we may not be being the brunt of this abuse directly. But the federal government is an "enabler" in this process by not instituting adequate internal controls.
Ultimately though, we all pay the price when the credit card companies and the small businesses pass their losses on to other customers.
There are no winners in this process.
Guilty should be fired
USDA Rural Development
Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:02 PM
It disgusts me to know that this blatent misuse of taxpayers dollars has been going on in this agency. Those that are guilty should be fired and made to pay back the money that they charged.
supervisors are at fault
DOD
Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:30 PM
The supervisors and managers of these supposed criminals are the individuals that should be held accountable and not just asked if they trained and briefed the violators. Had they been reviewing the travel vouchers and other related documentation including expenditure ledgers and organization billing, then taking appropriate corrective action, the problem would not have evolved into a wide spred fraud, waste and abuse situation. That's what happens when supervisors and managers are hired because they will say yes to anything and never disagree or out their foot down as dedicated citizens should on behalf of the taxpayers.
Difficult to convince Feds that ethics are best policy
Department of Veterans Affairs
Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:53 PM
The article 's credibility suffers from shaky arithmetic and some degree of specious logic, but I do not question that there is widespread "waste, fraud and abuse" inherent in the use of credit cards, both "travel" and "purchase" within the Federal sector of the economy. The credit card system put in place, by policy, in the VA superceded an automated system that had clearly defined controls in place that limited and forced review of purchases by those authorized to make both minor and major purchases. The credit card system that replaced that new, innovative and good system is fraught with flaws, gives purchase authority to untrained purchasers, and probably has increased the cost of goods and services bought by VA by at least 20% across the board. All this, of course, to "reduce the administrative costs of making purchases, to recoup a percentage of all monies spent by government through credit cards, and to privatize the procurement process through the use of commercial instrumentalities of trade" The government generally does not check or control the purchases made on purchase cards for rationality and best price the way we formerly did, and, while fraud probably is not a big issue with the purchase cards, waste definitely is an issue, and one that is difficult to quantify. Travel cards in the VA tend to be better controlled than is apparently the case in the Department of Agriculture, but, when fraud or abuse does take place I have no confidence that clear and decisive action will be taken to make the individuals who abuse their government credit cards realize the error of their ways; it particularly amuses me to see comments from HR officials urging decisive action on abuse cases, because HR officials are one of the prime reasons that managers cannot take the firm and decisive action required by flagrant abuse. While a manager, I often found myself thwarted by HR practices that were not in keeping with anything clear or decisive when it came to imposing discipline upon staff whose actions well warranted stringent disciplinary measures. With the best will in the world it is difficult for Federal managers to convince employees that ethicality is the best policy. I don't condone DOA, or any other department's apparent ignoring of this sort of problem, but I do know how difficult it is to achieve correction.
Probably all employees paid their bills
USDA Forest Service
Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:11 PM
Inappropropriate use of our travel card is well inappropriate, but I believe that you are distorting the truth. You make it sound that the government paid for all those items. Like all USDA employees, the bill for my USDA Travel Card comes to my home and I pay it from my personal checking acount. Yes, it would be inappropriate for a person to buy a $20,000 car with the credit card and that needs to be stopped, but if the person paid the bill within 30 days, you make it sound like the person stole $20K from the federal government. I think "counseling" or giving a letter of reprimand to this employee is the appropriate action. If they did not pay their bill, they should be arrested, but probably all in your examples paid their bills.
Outraged but not surprised
DOI - Charge Card Coordinator
Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:27 PM
The main problem is with a lack of controls and supervisors who are to darn busy to do their job of reviewing their employees statements. If you put to much temptation in front of all most anyone they will take advantage of the system. We have re-established most of the controls that went away with this new contract and will pursue anyone in our agency that is caught misusing the card for either purchase or travel. When employees lose jobs and are prosecuted along with the approving official who should be watching the statements, these kinds of things will begin to decline. Am I outraged? - Yes, Am I surprised? - Not in the least.
what's the point of a government card?
USDA
Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:24 PM
What I don't understand is why the fed insists that credit cards (for purchasing, travel, whatever) be issued in the employees' names, making the employees personally responsible for paying them before being reimbursed. If they have to pay the bills first, why not just have them use personal cards first off? What's the point of having a government card?
Also, not all employees seem to have equal opportunities with credit cards. This varie primarily per superivisor, but there may be other factors as well.
This USDA organization takes disciplinary action
USDA - Rural Development
Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:35 PM
I am also outraged and embarrased as a taxpayer, Federal employee and HR Mngr that has to deal with the disciplinary actions resulting from these abuses. Not all employees in all agencies of USDA are abusing their Govt Credit Card and getting away with it. Our agency has been disciplining employees that abuse their Govt Credit Cards for several years from Letters of Caution or Reprimand, to Suspension to Removal depending on the degree of abuse. I also agree that this abuse is fraud and stealing (no interest or late payment charges) and should be dealt with accordingly because if you are not ethical in something that is consistently reviewed by others, how ethical are you going to be in your daily work duties.
differences in kinds of cards issued by govt.
SSA
Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:32 PM
I find it troubling when I read articles like this which don't differentiate between government travel cards (for which the employee is responsible for the bill) and government credit cards (for which the government pays the bill). It is quite true that employees are not allowed to use their travel cards for anything but official travel. I work for the Social Security Administration and generally we have effective methods of controlling the use of the cards and detecting any misuse or past due bills early on. For example, if an employee is not expected to travel for a while, we reduce their credit limit to $1.00, to prevent any misuse between official trips. Unfortunately, many of the articles about credit card misuse would lead the reader to believe that when government travel cards are misused, the government is charged. This is not true. The employee is responsible for the charges. Consequently, if employees misuse the cards, it is more of an administrative issue rather than an issue of fraud or theft since the government would never be responsible for the bill. Even if an employee does not pay the bill timely, the role of the government is limited to ensuring the employee pays the bill and enforcing disciplinary actions when the situation justifies.
This is not true of what we refer to as the "office credit cards". The cards are used to pay for office equipment, supplies, training etc. and the costs are paid directly by the government. Again, there are adequate controls, which if used, should prevent almost all misuse of these cards. Misuse of this card is a far, far more serious offense that use of the employee's government travelcard. An employee who uses this card for personal gain, essentially is guilty of theft.
Additionally, there is a GSA "gas" credit card which also is paid for the government. This card is only for use to buy gas and for minor card of government cards. It requires the user to input an odometer reading and the tag number of the government before a purchase can be authorized. At least locally, GSA monitors these credit cards monthly and reports any possible discrepancies to the agency with the responsibility for the car.
As a federal employee who takes a lot of pride in my work and my agency, I don't like to see articles that would mislead the public and make offenses in this area worse than they are. While there are obviously areas that need improvement - in some agencies very significant improvements - it should be noted that the government is not always responsible for the bills when some types of credit cards are misused.
white collar crime is condoned
Social Security Admin
Thu Jul 17, 2003 4:24 PM
Please. Wake up. There is nothing to be outraged about. We live in a republic where white collar crime is condoned. The fat cats get richer by scamming. That is American capitalism.
WHen someone commits a fraud on SSA, like claiming to be disabled under three different names and Social Security numbers and works under a forth, if caught, he is put on probation for six months and told he has to pay back the $150,000 he improperly took. Americans love a crook who takes from the public trough.
My money says that the employee who was counseled for improper use was probably a high management official, and the couseling took place because soemthing had to be done in response to public awareness/pressure.
This is America where the best way to fulfill the dream of wealth is to cheat the system. Just no guns or weapons of mass destruction. please - unless you are the American government of course, which is justified to develop and use such for the personal interests of those in power.
Culture problem at USDA
USAF
Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:08 AM
First of all, the travel card program was a stupid idea to start with and still is. There are a certain percentage of employees who could never have a credit card of their own because they are mature/responsible enough to handle it. Just because of their job, we give them one with no questions.
On the other hand, it is obvious that there is a culture problem at USDA, or at least parts of it. Some people need to be fired, including in the higher management ranks. They are the ones who need to be controlling this problem.
Finally, I have kicked some good young, and not so young, people out because of Travel Card abuses. Other than that, they were really good employees and would have been for a long time. I didn't have the option of whether to give them the card or not. That should be a supervisor option. Compared to the lost training cost, recruiting cost, etc., the amount we get back is not worth the problems. Get rid of the program entirely.
Loss to the government?
DCMA
Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:37 AM
None of the articles/comments I read indicated whether these people who used their cards for unauthorized purchases were paying off their cards each month. Was this a real loss to the government or was it the amount of unauthorized uses.
Abuse will not stop until people are held accountable
USN
Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:34 AM
Where's the outrage? It's stifled and a part of the growing apathy of the public. Most people figure there's not too much they can do about a situation like this, and they're right. This kind of abuse will not stop until people are held accountable for their deplorable behavior. Until we are willing to do that and make the punishment fit the crime we can continue to expect abuse of the public trust.
Fraud is still fraud
Commerce
Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:55 PM
You bet...where is the outrage! I can recall while working for a Defense contractor, the Fed Government inspectors would just love to catch someone "mischarging" his or her time to the wrong defense contract...whether deliberately or accidentally...and go after the firm and private sector employee for Fraud against the Government. Some of these cases were for miniscule sums and often were not deliberate. Serious penalties and sanctions were sought and imposed. Why not the same standard (or a higher standard) for Federal employees? Anyway you cut it, it is fraud against the Government.
Eliminate costly abuse of government travel cards
Eliminate costly abuse of travel cards
Mon Jul 21, 2003 3:11 PM
I have read several reports on abuse of the credit card by government employees and it is crazy there are no controls. When the regulation came out making it mandatory for all travel be paid by the credit card it made it easy for people to obtain cards and abuse it. The mandatory use of the credit card should be done away with to eliminate this costly abuse. Read an article where the DOD had 34 million wiped off as bad debt - this is stupid - why didn't it taken out of their paychecks. What does this tell America? Charge all and get it wiped off the books.
Agriculture
FDA
Fri Jul 9, 2004 8:59 AM
The last I heard, Agriculture did not know how many employees they had and had no idea how to find out. So how could you possibly expect them to oversee credit card abuse as well as travel card abuse.
Lack of morals
Retired
Fri Nov 5, 2004 9:09 AM
The whole problem is caused by lack of personal morals and accountability. The people who think they get away with these actions will eventually have to answer to a higher judge.
credit card
DHS
Fri Nov 5, 2004 1:41 PM
People who abuse their gov's credit card.... should be fired and take the card away from them and no.... promotion for them and make them pay for the damages. If they are the favorite.... most likely will keep everything. This is Wrong!!!!! Boss...need to be more aggressive about the gov's credit cards at all time.
a bit of outrage over the situation at Agriculture
USFS
Thu Nov 3, 2005 11:53 AM
I'm outraged! In case it hasn't been suggested yet (I doubt that) how about
holding management responsible for their employee's travel indescretions as well as fix the card to only personal lodging and meals.
I have a theory also. It's a dirty little secret amounst, otherwise, decent individuals and alot of them! It's call legalized gambling these days. I'm wondering how much of the "front money" (travel card ATM $) is being played in the lottery and casinos?
credit card
usda forest service
Fri Nov 4, 2005 11:18 PM
it is stupid to give out these cards. in our agency i know of many people who have made numerous personal purchases with them and absolutely nothing happens to them. be a stupid kid off the streets of l.a. one day the next day you are a big, brave mached out fire fighter with a government credit to impress your gang banger friends with. thats the way my agency works. man i cannot wait to retire and be with normal people!
federal credit card abuse/misuse
VHA
Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:55 AM
Well isn't it apparent that the IG, altho they are supposed to be respected and feared, have no authority whatsoever to make anyone accountable for their actions? Why even bother if nothing will ever happen as a result of their findings? I am with you. IS ANYONE WATCHING IN DC? They talk about a deficit, well they are allowing it to happen, right under their noses without even a sniffle. Our current administration (along with those in the past I'm sure) are not concerned with anything that even has a hint of unethical behavior. Maybe they are afraid if they uncover some rocks they might find some of their own skeletons there also. It has been going on for so long that it's now the norm and not unusual, even expected. I don't understand how they can keep doing this with the taxpayers money and no one makes even a gesture to look into it! I have become sorely dissappointed with our government. I don't really think they care about anything anymore. Much less this country!
Where is the Outrage?
DoD, USAF
Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:58 AM
Issuing these cards to everyone just opened the gates to fraud. I saw just about everything charged to these cards, up to and including Las Vegas casino outings (from a Field Team sent to Nellis AFB to modify acft). Recently I was standing in line at a Lowe's garden shop, and the guy ahead of me told the cashier (who was having trouble verifying his credit card) -"Well, the Base just issued it to me this morning! " He was buying yard plants and garden things. He couldn't even wait until the end of the day to use the card!! (It is ONLY for TDY use for these employees on Base). The punishment when caught? Verbal admonishment, if anything. I saw cases of $20,000 get written off by the Base. Where indeed is the outrage??? Certainly not at operating level.