Government Analyst Department of Defense Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:13 AM
I can live with the fact that TSP funds are down. With two + master degrees I can figure out who to distrbute my money between the extremely limited savings options that the TSP system offers. But what is intollerable is when the Federal government changes the federal rules 66% of the way through my career and start playing with how money is distributed between my bonus and my pay. With bigger bonuses given under NSPS, my retirement pay is going to be a lot less. My retirement was already reduced with the transition from CSRS to FERS and now it is fundamentally being reduced again with the governments new math under NSPS. When are people going to wake up and demand that what they have been promised for the majority of their career is being reworked to the governments financial favor. The TSP losses that government Civil Service is enduring are acceptable...we agreed to this system; But NSPS was shoved down our collective throats and is the most unfair system ever devised. Help!
Re: NSPS is the Double Whammy
Diversity Manager DOL Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:12 PM
Lets see you received double what other CS got over the past 2 years. Even if the $$ were evenly split between bonus and salary you made out like a bandit. One can only assume that your Masters did not have any math courses
Just Don't Retire
Attorney DOD Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:24 AM
I have concluded that not retiring is not such a bad idea. We get 26 days of annual leave a year, fairly reasonable hours, most weekends off. If I plan an interesting life around work I think I can work to the end of my life. And at they very end of life I will have about 2 years sick leave to burn to get me to the end.
Re: Just Don't Retire
Eligible to Retire Cant Anytime Soon Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:26 AM
If you are referring to the "Terminal Sick Leave" program--"getting sick" and riding out your SL balance in spite of not being one with chronic ailments--just make sure you really are sick. As an attorney, I think you would realize that what you are suggesting is waste, fraud, and abuse of the sick leave program.
I worked in an agency where this was observed widely, and management at the highest levels condoned and participated in it themselves. It certainly was a convenient way to get someone out of the way that was considered not to be a team player.
Re: Just Don't Retire
Attorney DOD Tue Mar 3, 2009 9:37 AM
Dear "Eligible to Retire," I am certainly not suggesting as you say, " As an attorney, I think you would realize that what you are suggesting is waste, fraud, and abuse of the sick leave program." Quite the opposite - I am proposing working your entire life (if you can) and then when you reach the point of your terminal, life ending illness, then using all your sick leave to exhaustion. You may have a couple of years of sick leave in your late 70s or mid 80s. Nothing wrong or fraudulant about that - I am talking about using sick leave when you are indeed sick - at the end of your life and dying - probably the sickest time in your life. I would have a medical certification submitted to my agency documenting this terminal illness and the medical need to take sick leave to justify the lengthy sick leave use. Do you have any doubts about the propriety of this approach? Thought you should be corrected on this point and my true intentions on the proper use of sick leave. Helpful?
Glad to have a job
Program Analyst Veterans Administration Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:05 AM
At the rate at which the current administration and congress is destroying our governmental system as we know it, the days before this country is either broken apart into sovereign nation states or becomes as socialist as the USSR are short. I'm glad to have a job but one has to wonder if all that I've saved in TSP will ever be worth anything to me if a Dollar becomse as valuable as a Rubel.
TSP
program manager usda Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:05 AM
One apparent factor in your survey and the range of comments is that those who are younger with most of their careers ahead of them, have time on their side and can view the present period as one of opportunity for getting into investments at 20 to 30 years lows. Those whose careers are mostly behind them however and who have followed you advice of the past year, to stay in their funds and not lock in losses, have little time left and instead, have watched as 50% or more of their lifetime savings and earnings have vanished... contrary to many of the "insider trading" corporate execs who began pulling large amounts of stock and money out of their companies over a year ago and were pretty out of the nose-dive game before last fall....
Assuming it atakes another 10 to 15 year cycle to recover as some are now predicting, the problems of the retired and near retired will not be much of a factor anymore, as many of them will no longer be around.
It is indeed dire.
Retired Retired Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:13 AM
Even the "safe" funds are not safe. The most cruel tax of all is inflation and that is sure to arrive soon given the president and congress' economic policies. It will make even money in the G fund more like monopoly money and decrease the purchasing power of the money we do get. On top of that, the ones who are working can look forward to a "share the pain" 2% increase that will not begin to keep pace with inflation and is therefore a pay cut of yet to be determined percent.
Change we can believe in.
another tactic
worker bee any Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:44 AM
Many people seem to have moved money to G and put ongoing current contributions to other funds. I did the opposite. In March 2008 I left my existing balances in the five funds alone, but changed all current contributions to G.
Hopefully, the remaining stock funds will grow, but if I don't regain what I have lost by the time I need the money (I'm 52 now), at least I will not lose any new contributions. I'm also CSRS, so TSP isn't as important to my retirement as it is to FERS employees.
Something about not throwing good money after bad allows me to sleep better at night. My TSP balance is equal to my lifetime contributions right now, so the losses have all been 'paper' losses of prior 'paper' gains. I still got the income tax breaks along the way, so I guess I'm still ahead.
Re: another tactic
Karl Nervous Hospital Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:25 PM
As consolidation, I reckon we really didn't lose 100% of our paper losses but more like 75%. 25% of our withdrawal, when we make it, belongs to Uncle and I reckon that is likely to go up before it goes down. If you are nervous now, don't drink coffee because it makes me more nervous when I drink it. If you do decide to drink coffee, make it a biggun.
FERS mediocre retirement plan
felix perez VA Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:51 PM
When FERS came into effect it was printed as the best of the best...specially the TSP account...they were talking about its marvellous impact on retirement...that you as a federal employee will retire with eneough money to live well during the years of need. That you will have no less than $200,000 cash at your retirement. But it happened that the economy failed and now we are in the worst situation...we have no money for retirement. Our FERS retirement % dropped and the TSP didn work...What the government will do to help the people who gave all their life to serve others?
TSP and Asset Allocation
Safety and Health Specialist plodding along USDA Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:16 PM
I guess I was just lucky that about 18 months ago I put everything in my TSP into the G Fund. I also put all my Private Roth IRA Money into a Federal Money market Mutual Fund. The two together averaged about 3% for 2008. With inflation I didn't make much, but I didn't lose much, if any either. The thing theat amazes me is that after 10 %, 20%, 30% 40% negative Market reporting people still stayed in and are still staying in. Someone please explain how this makes sense? By the way I am retiring as scheduled.
Re: TSP and Asset Allocation
Electronics Engineer FCC Wed Mar 4, 2009 6:27 AM
It doesn't make good sense, but the vast majority of ordinary working people are sheep, and the authority figures like Wall Street and the TSP Board have been telling them for years that buy and hold is the way to go. To go against the conventional wisdom would require independent thought.
RE: another tactic
GOV WORKER DoD Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:35 PM
It depends on your time horizon. Spreading you money around is essentially what your doing. Your in essence hedging your losses. I am doing what you first suggest, and it is becuase I have a low risk tolerance and am investing the new contributions in the other funds. In the long run we may gain by picking up shares now, and if I had not moved in October 2007 or most of the first part of last year I would just stay put at this point. I wonder if the next bubble will be in Gold, and Treasuries. If that bubble bursts than stocks will grow again, as there is no where else that seems likely at the moment.
Financial Advisor
TJ Govt. Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:44 PM
TSP participants should have financial advisors. Nothing that is currently ahppening in the stock market is unexpected if they follow experts, trends, economic analysis.
TSP Bail Out Needed
Fed Peasant DOD Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:06 PM
The TSP should be elligable for some federal bail out money. Why not us? We don't even have private jets or get 7 & 8 figure bonuses for running organizations into the ground.
Beverages
Tech. Editor TACOM Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:16 PM
The following companys have gotten their share prices obliterated in the Stock Market.
1) Coca Cola
2) Kraft Foods
3) ConAgra Foods
4) Dr. Pepper Snapple
5) Hansen Natural Corp (Monster energy drink)
6) Walmart (yes even Walmart)
7) Wendys / Arbys / Sonic / Amazon / Ebay
My point? None of the companys above are going to disappear. The Stock Market has lost confidence like no tomorrow and what's happening is total madness right now. I don't even care any more other than to occasionally buy more shares in a Food/Beverage company in my personal Stock Trading Account.
The DOW Industrials and S&P 500 and so on are in complete shambles due to Nationalization. That can be fixed if and when the *good banks* replace the *bad banks* in the Indexes. That takes years though.
5 years from today no one will complain about their TSP index funds.
Re: Beverages
Acountant, Retired gs 14 DOE, Albuquerque Tue Mar 3, 2009 8:28 AM
Ive been investing for almost 30 years. In 5 years we will be in another financial mess and your tsp will start losing mooney. The stock market goes down 1/3 to 1/2 every 4 or 5 years. If you want to know what you will have at retirement, look at what you have two and a half years after the market turns up within 5 years of your retirement date and multiply it by the inflation rate by the number of years before you retire, adjusted for discounted planned contributions. That will give you a good idea of the funds you will have for retirement.
It's All About Laziness and Apathy
Engineer FAA Tue Mar 3, 2009 7:37 AM
The reason many people lost money in the past year is that they are lazy or apathetic about their money. As TJ mentioned, nothing that happened was unexpected if you spent 30 minutes looking at housing history or the stock market in general.
If you believe what Jim Kramer et al tells you on TV, you deserve what you get. If you believe what the so called government experts say, you deserve what you get.
Ever stop to think, if these guys were so smart, why do they have regular jobs on TV, instead of being on some island retiring with their billions.
BECAUSE THEY ARE ENTERTAINERS, nothing more.
Stop watching TV, and stop believing everything you hear. Do a little research yourself. I believed the Dow would top at 13,800, and I moved to G fund at that time.
Guess what, 2 hours work max saved me the 50% of my TSP that the rest of you lost!
Please please please, if nothing else, erase
BUY AND HOLD
from your brains.
It doesn't work.
What's the take home here?
Public Affairs Specialist SSA Tue Mar 3, 2009 8:00 AM
What is the value of this buffet of statistics and opinions? When do I get some information I can use? Knowing which way the herds are running from the fire won't be keeping anyone safe. This kind of report seems to be informative and profound but it's just a slew of numbers and a snapshot of people in panic. Oddly enough Madison Avenue is doing a better job of giving folks a practical tip or two.
All G
General Engineer Redstone Arsenal Thu Mar 5, 2009 2:46 PM
Got out of the stock funds around the first of October last year before the big decline. Went to 90% G with the rest in the F fund. Did make a slight profit, then went to S fund past 2 months. Recently got to all G. Lost about about $6k from S fund. Am in FERS, eligible to retire now-65 years old. Plan to wait another 3 years while paying back college loans for kids. Don't expect to recover. Can't conceive why Obama won't reduce the capital gians tax or reduce corporate tax rate- that would be a huge recovery for the mkt.
TSP
QUALITY ASSURANCE REP DoD Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:37 PM
With 14 years to go for my retirement it makes me wonder if in fact the G fund is a good place to put my money. From what I understand, is that the monies from the G fund is where the money for the economic stimulus packages came from. With that thought in mind, and the fact that some of the Stimulus recipients companies or organizations may even go bankrupt. What makes the G fund a “safe” fund? As of now I am still keeping my money in the S and I funds.
Retirement Planning
Program Analyst OPM Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:54 AM
Remember the old adage about putting all your eggs in one basket? Well, the basket has sprung a leak. Being over 591/2 my plan is to take my entire TSP savings and buy hard assets, like real estate while the market is down. The rest I will invest in IRAs and other programs, including rejoining the TSP.
Diversify, diversify, diversify
FERS retirement and the TSP
EMTS DoD Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:39 AM
Regardless of the circumstances, my wife and I are going to "retire soon". We have already purchased our retirement home. Years ago Government work was the best. Today, the Government agencies all seem to be the same; i.e., places where favoritism is the path for advancement and the good, dependable workers are shunned. I no longer want to be a part of it. So, I'll "retire" from Government work and then work for someone else. Perhaps my own business or a state/county/city government job.
NSPS is the Double Whammy
Department of Defense
Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:13 AM
I can live with the fact that TSP funds are down. With two + master degrees I can figure out who to distrbute my money between the extremely limited savings options that the TSP system offers. But what is intollerable is when the Federal government changes the federal rules 66% of the way through my career and start playing with how money is distributed between my bonus and my pay. With bigger bonuses given under NSPS, my retirement pay is going to be a lot less. My retirement was already reduced with the transition from CSRS to FERS and now it is fundamentally being reduced again with the governments new math under NSPS. When are people going to wake up and demand that what they have been promised for the majority of their career is being reworked to the governments financial favor. The TSP losses that government Civil Service is enduring are acceptable...we agreed to this system; But NSPS was shoved down our collective throats and is the most unfair system ever devised. Help!
Re: NSPS is the Double Whammy
DOL
Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:12 PM
Just Don't Retire
DOD
Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:24 AM
I have concluded that not retiring is not such a bad idea. We get 26 days of annual leave a year, fairly reasonable hours, most weekends off. If I plan an interesting life around work I think I can work to the end of my life. And at they very end of life I will have about 2 years sick leave to burn to get me to the end.
Re: Just Don't Retire
Cant Anytime Soon
Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:26 AM
I worked in an agency where this was observed widely, and management at the highest levels condoned and participated in it themselves. It certainly was a convenient way to get someone out of the way that was considered not to be a team player.
Re: Just Don't Retire
DOD
Tue Mar 3, 2009 9:37 AM
Glad to have a job
Veterans Administration
Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:05 AM
At the rate at which the current administration and congress is destroying our governmental system as we know it, the days before this country is either broken apart into sovereign nation states or becomes as socialist as the USSR are short. I'm glad to have a job but one has to wonder if all that I've saved in TSP will ever be worth anything to me if a Dollar becomse as valuable as a Rubel.
TSP
usda
Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:05 AM
One apparent factor in your survey and the range of comments is that those who are younger with most of their careers ahead of them, have time on their side and can view the present period as one of opportunity for getting into investments at 20 to 30 years lows. Those whose careers are mostly behind them however and who have followed you advice of the past year, to stay in their funds and not lock in losses, have little time left and instead, have watched as 50% or more of their lifetime savings and earnings have vanished... contrary to many of the "insider trading" corporate execs who began pulling large amounts of stock and money out of their companies over a year ago and were pretty out of the nose-dive game before last fall....
Assuming it atakes another 10 to 15 year cycle to recover as some are now predicting, the problems of the retired and near retired will not be much of a factor anymore, as many of them will no longer be around.
It is indeed dire.
Retired
Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:13 AM
Even the "safe" funds are not safe. The most cruel tax of all is inflation and that is sure to arrive soon given the president and congress' economic policies. It will make even money in the G fund more like monopoly money and decrease the purchasing power of the money we do get. On top of that, the ones who are working can look forward to a "share the pain" 2% increase that will not begin to keep pace with inflation and is therefore a pay cut of yet to be determined percent.
Change we can believe in.
another tactic
any
Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:44 AM
Many people seem to have moved money to G and put ongoing current contributions to other funds. I did the opposite. In March 2008 I left my existing balances in the five funds alone, but changed all current contributions to G.
Hopefully, the remaining stock funds will grow, but if I don't regain what I have lost by the time I need the money (I'm 52 now), at least I will not lose any new contributions. I'm also CSRS, so TSP isn't as important to my retirement as it is to FERS employees.
Something about not throwing good money after bad allows me to sleep better at night. My TSP balance is equal to my lifetime contributions right now, so the losses have all been 'paper' losses of prior 'paper' gains. I still got the income tax breaks along the way, so I guess I'm still ahead.
Re: another tactic
Nervous Hospital
Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:25 PM
FERS mediocre retirement plan
VA
Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:51 PM
When FERS came into effect it was printed as the best of the best...specially the TSP account...they were talking about its marvellous impact on retirement...that you as a federal employee will retire with eneough money to live well during the years of need. That you will have no less than $200,000 cash at your retirement. But it happened that the economy failed and now we are in the worst situation...we have no money for retirement. Our FERS retirement % dropped and the TSP didn work...What the government will do to help the people who gave all their life to serve others?
TSP and Asset Allocation
USDA
Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:16 PM
I guess I was just lucky that about 18 months ago I put everything in my TSP into the G Fund. I also put all my Private Roth IRA Money into a Federal Money market Mutual Fund. The two together averaged about 3% for 2008. With inflation I didn't make much, but I didn't lose much, if any either. The thing theat amazes me is that after 10 %, 20%, 30% 40% negative Market reporting people still stayed in and are still staying in. Someone please explain how this makes sense? By the way I am retiring as scheduled.
Re: TSP and Asset Allocation
FCC
Wed Mar 4, 2009 6:27 AM
RE: another tactic
DoD
Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:35 PM
It depends on your time horizon. Spreading you money around is essentially what your doing. Your in essence hedging your losses. I am doing what you first suggest, and it is becuase I have a low risk tolerance and am investing the new contributions in the other funds. In the long run we may gain by picking up shares now, and if I had not moved in October 2007 or most of the first part of last year I would just stay put at this point. I wonder if the next bubble will be in Gold, and Treasuries. If that bubble bursts than stocks will grow again, as there is no where else that seems likely at the moment.
Financial Advisor
Govt.
Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:44 PM
TSP participants should have financial advisors. Nothing that is currently ahppening in the stock market is unexpected if they follow experts, trends, economic analysis.
TSP Bail Out Needed
DOD
Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:06 PM
The TSP should be elligable for some federal bail out money. Why not us? We don't even have private jets or get 7 & 8 figure bonuses for running organizations into the ground.
Beverages
TACOM
Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:16 PM
The following companys have gotten their share prices obliterated in the Stock Market.
1) Coca Cola
2) Kraft Foods
3) ConAgra Foods
4) Dr. Pepper Snapple
5) Hansen Natural Corp (Monster energy drink)
6) Walmart (yes even Walmart)
7) Wendys / Arbys / Sonic / Amazon / Ebay
My point? None of the companys above are going to disappear. The Stock Market has lost confidence like no tomorrow and what's happening is total madness right now. I don't even care any more other than to occasionally buy more shares in a Food/Beverage company in my personal Stock Trading Account.
The DOW Industrials and S&P 500 and so on are in complete shambles due to Nationalization. That can be fixed if and when the *good banks* replace the *bad banks* in the Indexes. That takes years though.
5 years from today no one will complain about their TSP index funds.
Re: Beverages
DOE, Albuquerque
Tue Mar 3, 2009 8:28 AM
It's All About Laziness and Apathy
FAA
Tue Mar 3, 2009 7:37 AM
The reason many people lost money in the past year is that they are lazy or apathetic about their money. As TJ mentioned, nothing that happened was unexpected if you spent 30 minutes looking at housing history or the stock market in general.
If you believe what Jim Kramer et al tells you on TV, you deserve what you get. If you believe what the so called government experts say, you deserve what you get.
Ever stop to think, if these guys were so smart, why do they have regular jobs on TV, instead of being on some island retiring with their billions.
BECAUSE THEY ARE ENTERTAINERS, nothing more.
Stop watching TV, and stop believing everything you hear. Do a little research yourself. I believed the Dow would top at 13,800, and I moved to G fund at that time.
Guess what, 2 hours work max saved me the 50% of my TSP that the rest of you lost!
Please please please, if nothing else, erase
BUY AND HOLD
from your brains.
It doesn't work.
What's the take home here?
SSA
Tue Mar 3, 2009 8:00 AM
What is the value of this buffet of statistics and opinions? When do I get some information I can use? Knowing which way the herds are running from the fire won't be keeping anyone safe. This kind of report seems to be informative and profound but it's just a slew of numbers and a snapshot of people in panic. Oddly enough Madison Avenue is doing a better job of giving folks a practical tip or two.
All G
Redstone Arsenal
Thu Mar 5, 2009 2:46 PM
Got out of the stock funds around the first of October last year before the big decline. Went to 90% G with the rest in the F fund. Did make a slight profit, then went to S fund past 2 months. Recently got to all G. Lost about about $6k from S fund. Am in FERS, eligible to retire now-65 years old. Plan to wait another 3 years while paying back college loans for kids. Don't expect to recover. Can't conceive why Obama won't reduce the capital gians tax or reduce corporate tax rate- that would be a huge recovery for the mkt.
TSP
DoD
Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:37 PM
With 14 years to go for my retirement it makes me wonder if in fact the G fund is a good place to put my money. From what I understand, is that the monies from the G fund is where the money for the economic stimulus packages came from. With that thought in mind, and the fact that some of the Stimulus recipients companies or organizations may even go bankrupt. What makes the G fund a “safe” fund? As of now I am still keeping my money in the S and I funds.
Retirement Planning
OPM
Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:54 AM
Remember the old adage about putting all your eggs in one basket? Well, the basket has sprung a leak. Being over 591/2 my plan is to take my entire TSP savings and buy hard assets, like real estate while the market is down. The rest I will invest in IRAs and other programs, including rejoining the TSP.
Diversify, diversify, diversify
FERS retirement and the TSP
DoD
Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:39 AM
Regardless of the circumstances, my wife and I are going to "retire soon". We have already purchased our retirement home. Years ago Government work was the best. Today, the Government agencies all seem to be the same; i.e., places where favoritism is the path for advancement and the good, dependable workers are shunned. I no longer want to be a part of it. So, I'll "retire" from Government work and then work for someone else. Perhaps my own business or a state/county/city government job.