Professional Air Marshal Service Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:08 AM
What is so often overlooked is the reasoning behind why the employees are so upset with the current system, which has never been fairly applied, and has as a result led to the promotions of unqualified personnel. Those who are best at appealing to management, for whatever reason, are the ones promoted, whereas the rest are told "there's no money available for promotions". Perhaps when the current group of administrators is finally forced to leave the Agency, things will become better, but until such time, the GS system is the only fai way to advance in TSA/FAMS.
Re: Conversion to Civil Service
Emp Fed Govt Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:46 PM
I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that NSPS resulted in unqualified employees being promoted. Applicants still had to meet the basic qualication requirements of the NSPS position as stated in the X118 standard in order to qualify for promotion/reassignment.
GS Best System; Pay for Performance is Flawed
Retired LR Manager Retired Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:18 AM
Pay for performance is flawed. Capping salaries at the top on pay for performance (payout in place of COLA)discriminates against those for base pay increases that increase TSP, life insurance and annuity. What do we not understand. If Air Traffic controllers, border patrol, who are national security roles can be unionized so can TSP security folks, Otherwise, like FBI and CIA they should be excluded per 5 USC Ch 71.
New job opening
Labor Employee Relations Manager VA Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:24 AM
I see some new HR job opening here.........
Re: New job opening
Engineer DoD Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:48 AM
The new HR openings most likely will not go to a Fed, it will be contracted out! Too bad most of the HR positions are not represented by a Union.
Transportation Security Workforce Enhancement Act
TSO Transportation Security Administration Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:29 AM
As a Transportation Security Officer since 2002 I can assure you that securing our long sought after rights under "Transportation Security Workforce Enhancement Act of 2009" is of utmost importance to all of our officers.
We have long worked under a system that gives us few rights and no avenues of redress for the mistreatment, demeaning attitudes and policies set forth by both Headquarters and local Federal Security Directors. Moral at the working level is at an all time low. We need the rights given to all other Federal agencies for our protection, and to return Dignity and Respect to the men and women that protect the flying public day in and day out. We are working people, with families and we take pride in our work. We only ask that our rights be protected and that we can be made equal to all government employees.
As a TSO since the beginning I have seen the agency go to a management system. We are not part of the civil system and a housekeepers Aide makes more than TSOs
Yet since I'm not a GS employee I could not transfer to that job. We are under enormous stress and take our jobs seriously. The leadership should grant us our basic rights but the fact that they don't tells all of us that we don't matter to the DHS and TSA leadership. Lets pass the bill and give us our basic rights.
GS TSA inspector's
Consultant HHS Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:14 PM
As soon as the TSA goes GS, and gets all the protection the GS union members get, you can forget any pretense that they are providing security to your baggage or person. We will be back to the days when you avoided Newark to keep your stuff from being ripped off. Only now you will have doper theives checking your bags everywhere.
Re: GS TSA inspector's
Security DHS Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:48 PM
First off, please learn the difference between TSA Officers and TSA Inspectors. There is a BIG difference! Secondly, there are MANY people that work for TSA other than TSA Officers, what was it you said doper theives, going through baggage. There are people throughout this disfunctional government run by an unqualified secretary that are keeping you and your family secure that you know nothing about. Shut your pie hole!
Re: GS TSA inspector's
TSO TSA Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:23 PM
I find it quite funny how you assume TSO's are thieves. What on earth makes you think any of us want your used dirty clothes? Honestly, I have my own things that I prefer to the things I see in bags on a daily basis. Another thing people need to realize is that once TSA is done screening a bag that has been checked, it then goes to baggage handlers. We are not the only ones who come in contact with your luggage and I am sick and tired of people thinking I first of all "get off" on touching them let alone want to rummage through their dirty panties. I do because I took the job in trying to help keep people safe and I like to believe that is why the majority of people take a job with TSA. As far as collective bargaining rights, what person should not have the ability to be able to stand up for themselves and say they are being mistreated? No one should have to go to work thinking that if they stand up for something, there will be a price to pay i the end.
Re: GS TSA inspector's
LTSO TSA Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:51 AM
That's pretty insulting. Many officers are there for a reason of service. I could name 20 off the top of my head. TSA was stood up from those whose purpose were mainly patriotic. Those who didn't join for patriotism have resigned.
Are there some out there that want to "scam" the system. Yep, I can name a few off the top of my head also. Many of our AGFE are in there just for the protection of the union from management persecution.
Personally, I'm not there, and I don't plan on being there.
GS the best system?
Public Health Analyst HHS Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:14 PM
"What is so often overlooked is the reasoning behind why the employees are so upset with the current system, which has never been fairly applied, and has as a result led to the promotions of unqualified personnel. Those who are best at appealing to management, for whatever reason, are the ones promoted, whereas the rest are told "there's no money available for promotions""
I work under the GS system and I see the same exact thing - people who are "appealing to managment" which results in "promotions of unqualified personnel" all the time. I would like to know where the perplexing perception of the GS system being different and "fair" comes from.
Re: GS the best system?
SeatJockey FAMS Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:07 PM
The GS system is fair because it was designed to reward agents for their experience and their years of loyalty. Under the current Pay for NONperformance, only the worst possible candidates are given raises. If you believe people who fail firearms quals, should get raises over FAMs who consistently shoot perfect quals. Then by all means keep the current system. I have seen 7 straight years of being denied a raise even though I max out every category on the eval sheet. Supervisors say the same thing every year, "Just no money for raises." I would gladly take any job thats back on the GS.
Needed Reform
TSO TSA, DHS Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:16 PM
TSA is long overdue for reform. The myriad of abuse and illegal activities literally boggles the mind, especially since there has been no accountability, redress or objective appeal since TSA was formed in 2002. Management has used cat's paws to effect the arbitrary and capricious mandates and AFGE has been the only -- often ineffective barrier to the twilight zone of government service created by the ATSA, known as TSA.
At the very leaast, the minor infractions and ruling of the TSA version of the MSRP should be reviewed by an independent third party to correct the petty excesses found at virtually every airport in the US.
GS for TSA
grunt cant say Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:24 PM
TSA is not all screeners and it is good to see that those of us that aren't screeners will be covered by the GS system. Under the current Pay for performance, any raise is at the descretion of upper management and the distance your nose is up someones arse.
Having TSA folloe OPM rules is a god send and those Mangers that have been running their operations as a fiefdom will now be eaier to take to court.
For to long TSA has thumbed it collective nose at Gov't regulations and the reason being is that they said so.
Re: GS for TSA
Diversity Manager HHS Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:10 PM
Do you see why these "people" don't deserve civil service status?
Please keep them as they are or contract out their jobs to more qualified folks.
I love these forums: The knuckleheads trying to show how deserving they are usually cut their own HS drop-out throats...
Re: GS for TSA
TSO TSA Wed May 13, 2009 12:23 PM
You want managers to convert and the people doing the work to stay in the SV band !!! Way to go learn how to spell first
Good points: Get rid of PASS. Ability to elect collective bargaining. Conversion to the GS scale and bring TSA into the mainstream of the federal government.
Point to ponder though, how will TSA make the conversion from pay banding to the GS scale? Will it be a "closest match" in current pay rate? Or will it be the income potential for the employees current band that determines the appropriate GS scale?
For example, an I band encompasses the GS scale from GS-11 step 6 to GS-13 step 9. TSA has stated that an I band is equivalent to a GS-13. If TSA converts an I and to GS-12 (for instance) then they loose nearly $12K on their top end. However, if TSA does convert an I band directly to GS-13, then it appears that alot of I bands will be getting (in some cases) a rather subsantial pay raise. It may work the same for other bands as well.
Re: Pay Conversion
TSO TSA Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:49 PM
To Project Officer, a couple of comments above me. Yes they may lock the cock pit doors and have fire arms, but that doesn't stop someone from igniting an explosive. TSA is very much needed!!!!! I think We Deserve to be paid on the GS scale. I take my job seriously and I work hard. We have been waiting for this for a while now. We got the new uniforms now we need the pay to go with it. Everybody always has stuff to say about TSA, but if something goes wrong... you'll be pointing the fingers say we didnt do our jobs... All the people wishing for the break up of TSA and for contractor to take over???? get ready for disaster!!!
Re: Pay Conversion
TSO TSA Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:46 AM
Personally I think all TSO's should be under a two year contract that must be renewed. Can't see paying a "NO-LOAD" big buck if he/she don't do their jobs. A look at all the non-screening jobs needs to be revisited. I think their are alot of non-screening jobs that can be done away with. A foremost lets do our own HR. Why contract it out?
TSA move into Civil Service
retired retired Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:52 AM
Sorry, Gilson, you are wrong on this point: "On the other hand, as a retired Fed, I think that TSOs are better off in the civil service and it's about time they got there." The function should be privatized as it was prior to 9/11. There was no compelling reason to make this a government function. A compelling reason does not exists today. Feds at the check point do not make the screening process any better than it was prior to 9/11. The screeners were not the problem and it is time people realized that this huge, cumbersome agency was just a Bush kneejerk reaction.
Re: TSA move into Civil Service
Employee The government Fri May 15, 2009 1:01 PM
Yeah the private contractors did a GREAT job of keeping terrorists off the planes didn't they? Last time I counted the folks working for TSA had let ZERO planes fly into buildings. Thats not just dumb luck. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But there are no guarantees in life. NOBODY can give you a guarantee that it won't happen again.
The previous private contractors were the lowest paid, least trained people they could find. Their turnover rate was about 100% per year. AND they had to answer to the airlines--you know--the people they were working for that told them to leave the pilots and crew members alone when they came through screening.
Eliminating the government run, not for profit TSA and going back to the old system of AIRLINE or AIRPORT run screening is just asking for another attack. One thing the american public has always done is become complacent and it is already happening with respect to screening.
The current system is not perfect but its far better than the old way.
Great news!
HR Specialist DOD Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:01 AM
My son is a TSO and has endured deplorable working conditions under the present system. It has been like an on-going experiment where management seems to make up the rules as they go along. The main criteria for promotions to positions of leadership seem to be attendance. If you never take off a sick day or annual leave, regardless of your management(or lack of )skills you almost assured of getting promoted. I do think that the GS system is a better system because their present system is skewed too much in management's favor. Any business(or government entity) wishing to retain good employees must operate under a more balanced system where the employees have the perception that they will be treated fairly. Under the present system, it seems that management always has the upper hand.
GS Scale!! Bring it on!!
TSO TSA Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:21 PM
Myself and many of my fellow TSO's are very anxious to see the day we move to a GS status. We are currently seen by civil service employees, to not be real government employees. I know we are not perfect, but since 9-11 and the establishment of TSA, just how many planes have fallen out of the sky, in the US, since 9-11 .......goose egg.."0"...nada.
Re: GS Scale!! Bring it on!!
Project Officer Contractor Mon Jul 6, 2009 8:46 AM
That is because they now arm the flight crews and lock the cockpit doors and everybody knows this.
Re: GS Scale!! Bring it on!!
Current TSO TSA Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:41 AM
So what if they lock the cockpit door and the pilots are armed? The only ones that can stop terrorists from blowing up a plane is TSA. I'm a TSO and I know it doesnt take much to put a 20 foot hole in a plane and bring it down. I've gone through BAO training numerous of times, I've seen it. People laugh because they think it's stupid that they can not bring in their drinks/liquids/spray through the sterile area, but what they don't know is that we've had people trying to take down planes with a 20oz bottle of "tang" and a disponsible camera. Do your research. WE have also had people alter their laptops and place C4 and/or other explosives inside, planning on using it as an IED, and YOU laugh at US when WE tell YOU that WE need to run a test on your laptop?! Rememeber Richard Reid? He had explosives in his boots and couldve easily taken down that plane if WE didn't catch him? Now, WE tell YOU WE are going to run a test on your shoes and YOU laugh? Come on...let's be serious people...
The effect of Poor Management
Engineer DoD Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:45 AM
Management had there chance to run the TSA under thier own rules without interference. There is never a simple fix. NSPS has proven that time and time again. The employees bear the brunt of Managements inept attempts at creating a new personnel system. They may be good at creating the umbrella, but when it comes to details ..... How much has NSPS cost? Stop NSPS now and divert the money to TSA.
New Bill
Employee The government Sat May 9, 2009 12:38 AM
While I can't talk specifics TSO's are tested to death and not paid very much. Cops are tested less and they carry guns. Promotions are all about WHO you know and not your skills and knowledge. Even if you make the "Best Qualified" list they can still pick who they want to promote.
As for pay, USA Jobs shows a COOK is paid more per hour than a TSO for several agencies and they are NEVER tested. I said COOK and not CHEF.
As for HR thats a laugh. We have local HR people who's hands are tied because they have to pass most things off to Lockheed Martin. Who then just screws it up like Accenture and NCS Pearson have done in the past.
And WHY does Headquarters insist that our workforce be 1/3 part time? While they good employees they are not "loyal" when it comes to deciding who to work for when a scheduling problem occurs. Its going to be their FT job and not TSA. Privatizing is not the answer. OMB says it costs 17% more to run the current privatized airports so there is NO savings.
Anyone who thinks at this point that we can ever go back to having screeners' positions privatized has not watched the news or traveled abroad. American's are not high on most "likability" lists with any number of foreign countries. Countries that have factions whose main focus is to bring down the USA. You may recall that prior to 9/11 those positions were held by the private sector. Clearly they were inept.
My husband has a college education and is committed to serving his country. He has 16 years of service to the government in various capacities, including active military duty, which included ten months away from his family during the first gulf war. His specialty has always been related to policing. He is qualified for his position and puts up with a great deal of idiocy from the public and the higher ups who are less qualified than him! The GS pay scale is very much needed, as currently the pay situation is really left to your ability to kiss butt and play golf.
Conversion to Civil Service
Air Marshal Service
Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:08 AM
What is so often overlooked is the reasoning behind why the employees are so upset with the current system, which has never been fairly applied, and has as a result led to the promotions of unqualified personnel. Those who are best at appealing to management, for whatever reason, are the ones promoted, whereas the rest are told "there's no money available for promotions". Perhaps when the current group of administrators is finally forced to leave the Agency, things will become better, but until such time, the GS system is the only fai way to advance in TSA/FAMS.
Re: Conversion to Civil Service
Fed Govt
Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:46 PM
GS Best System; Pay for Performance is Flawed
Retired
Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:18 AM
Pay for performance is flawed. Capping salaries at the top on pay for performance (payout in place of COLA)discriminates against those for base pay increases that increase TSP, life insurance and annuity. What do we not understand. If Air Traffic controllers, border patrol, who are national security roles can be unionized so can TSP security folks, Otherwise, like FBI and CIA they should be excluded per 5 USC Ch 71.
New job opening
VA
Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:24 AM
I see some new HR job opening here.........
Re: New job opening
DoD
Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:48 AM
Transportation Security Workforce Enhancement Act
Transportation Security Administration
Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:29 AM
As a Transportation Security Officer since 2002 I can assure you that securing our long sought after rights under "Transportation Security Workforce Enhancement Act of 2009" is of utmost importance to all of our officers.
We have long worked under a system that gives us few rights and no avenues of redress for the mistreatment, demeaning attitudes and policies set forth by both Headquarters and local Federal Security Directors. Moral at the working level is at an all time low. We need the rights given to all other Federal agencies for our protection, and to return Dignity and Respect to the men and women that protect the flying public day in and day out. We are working people, with families and we take pride in our work. We only ask that our rights be protected and that we can be made equal to all government employees.
Re: Transportation Security Workforce Enhancement Act
TSA
Tue May 5, 2009 7:23 PM
Yet since I'm not a GS employee I could not transfer to that job. We are under enormous stress and take our jobs seriously. The leadership should grant us our basic rights but the fact that they don't tells all of us that we don't matter to the DHS and TSA leadership. Lets pass the bill and give us our basic rights.
GS TSA inspector's
HHS
Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:14 PM
As soon as the TSA goes GS, and gets all the protection the GS union members get, you can forget any pretense that they are providing security to your baggage or person. We will be back to the days when you avoided Newark to keep your stuff from being ripped off. Only now you will have doper theives checking your bags everywhere.
Re: GS TSA inspector's
DHS
Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:48 PM
Re: GS TSA inspector's
TSA
Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:23 PM
Re: GS TSA inspector's
TSA
Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:51 AM
Are there some out there that want to "scam" the system. Yep, I can name a few off the top of my head also. Many of our AGFE are in there just for the protection of the union from management persecution.
Personally, I'm not there, and I don't plan on being there.
GS the best system?
HHS
Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:14 PM
"What is so often overlooked is the reasoning behind why the employees are so upset with the current system, which has never been fairly applied, and has as a result led to the promotions of unqualified personnel. Those who are best at appealing to management, for whatever reason, are the ones promoted, whereas the rest are told "there's no money available for promotions""
I work under the GS system and I see the same exact thing - people who are "appealing to managment" which results in "promotions of unqualified personnel" all the time. I would like to know where the perplexing perception of the GS system being different and "fair" comes from.
Re: GS the best system?
FAMS
Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:07 PM
Needed Reform
TSA, DHS
Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:16 PM
TSA is long overdue for reform. The myriad of abuse and illegal activities literally boggles the mind, especially since there has been no accountability, redress or objective appeal since TSA was formed in 2002. Management has used cat's paws to effect the arbitrary and capricious mandates and AFGE has been the only -- often ineffective barrier to the twilight zone of government service created by the ATSA, known as TSA.
At the very leaast, the minor infractions and ruling of the TSA version of the MSRP should be reviewed by an independent third party to correct the petty excesses found at virtually every airport in the US.
GS for TSA
cant say
Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:24 PM
TSA is not all screeners and it is good to see that those of us that aren't screeners will be covered by the GS system. Under the current Pay for performance, any raise is at the descretion of upper management and the distance your nose is up someones arse.
Having TSA folloe OPM rules is a god send and those Mangers that have been running their operations as a fiefdom will now be eaier to take to court.
For to long TSA has thumbed it collective nose at Gov't regulations and the reason being is that they said so.
Re: GS for TSA
HHS
Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:10 PM
Please keep them as they are or contract out their jobs to more qualified folks.
I love these forums: The knuckleheads trying to show how deserving they are usually cut their own HS drop-out throats...
Re: GS for TSA
TSA
Wed May 13, 2009 12:23 PM
Pay Conversion
TSA
Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:50 PM
Good points: Get rid of PASS. Ability to elect collective bargaining. Conversion to the GS scale and bring TSA into the mainstream of the federal government.
Point to ponder though, how will TSA make the conversion from pay banding to the GS scale? Will it be a "closest match" in current pay rate? Or will it be the income potential for the employees current band that determines the appropriate GS scale?
For example, an I band encompasses the GS scale from GS-11 step 6 to GS-13 step 9. TSA has stated that an I band is equivalent to a GS-13. If TSA converts an I and to GS-12 (for instance) then they loose nearly $12K on their top end. However, if TSA does convert an I band directly to GS-13, then it appears that alot of I bands will be getting (in some cases) a rather subsantial pay raise. It may work the same for other bands as well.
Re: Pay Conversion
TSA
Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:49 PM
Re: Pay Conversion
TSA
Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:46 AM
TSA move into Civil Service
retired
Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:52 AM
Sorry, Gilson, you are wrong on this point: "On the other hand, as a retired Fed, I think that TSOs are better off in the civil service and it's about time they got there." The function should be privatized as it was prior to 9/11. There was no compelling reason to make this a government function. A compelling reason does not exists today. Feds at the check point do not make the screening process any better than it was prior to 9/11. The screeners were not the problem and it is time people realized that this huge, cumbersome agency was just a Bush kneejerk reaction.
Re: TSA move into Civil Service
The government
Fri May 15, 2009 1:01 PM
The previous private contractors were the lowest paid, least trained people they could find. Their turnover rate was about 100% per year. AND they had to answer to the airlines--you know--the people they were working for that told them to leave the pilots and crew members alone when they came through screening.
Eliminating the government run, not for profit TSA and going back to the old system of AIRLINE or AIRPORT run screening is just asking for another attack. One thing the american public has always done is become complacent and it is already happening with respect to screening.
The current system is not perfect but its far better than the old way.
Great news!
DOD
Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:01 AM
My son is a TSO and has endured deplorable working conditions under the present system. It has been like an on-going experiment where management seems to make up the rules as they go along. The main criteria for promotions to positions of leadership seem to be attendance. If you never take off a sick day or annual leave, regardless of your management(or lack of )skills you almost assured of getting promoted. I do think that the GS system is a better system because their present system is skewed too much in management's favor. Any business(or government entity) wishing to retain good employees must operate under a more balanced system where the employees have the perception that they will be treated fairly. Under the present system, it seems that management always has the upper hand.
GS Scale!! Bring it on!!
TSA
Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:21 PM
Myself and many of my fellow TSO's are very anxious to see the day we move to a GS status. We are currently seen by civil service employees, to not be real government employees. I know we are not perfect, but since 9-11 and the establishment of TSA, just how many planes have fallen out of the sky, in the US, since 9-11 .......goose egg.."0"...nada.
Re: GS Scale!! Bring it on!!
Contractor
Mon Jul 6, 2009 8:46 AM
Re: GS Scale!! Bring it on!!
TSA
Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:41 AM
The effect of Poor Management
DoD
Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:45 AM
Management had there chance to run the TSA under thier own rules without interference. There is never a simple fix. NSPS has proven that time and time again. The employees bear the brunt of Managements inept attempts at creating a new personnel system. They may be good at creating the umbrella, but when it comes to details ..... How much has NSPS cost? Stop NSPS now and divert the money to TSA.
New Bill
The government
Sat May 9, 2009 12:38 AM
While I can't talk specifics TSO's are tested to death and not paid very much. Cops are tested less and they carry guns. Promotions are all about WHO you know and not your skills and knowledge. Even if you make the "Best Qualified" list they can still pick who they want to promote.
As for pay, USA Jobs shows a COOK is paid more per hour than a TSO for several agencies and they are NEVER tested. I said COOK and not CHEF.
As for HR thats a laugh. We have local HR people who's hands are tied because they have to pass most things off to Lockheed Martin. Who then just screws it up like Accenture and NCS Pearson have done in the past.
And WHY does Headquarters insist that our workforce be 1/3 part time? While they good employees they are not "loyal" when it comes to deciding who to work for when a scheduling problem occurs. Its going to be their FT job and not TSA. Privatizing is not the answer. OMB says it costs 17% more to run the current privatized airports so there is NO savings.
Response to Retired Retired
Private Sector Paralegal
Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:14 AM
Anyone who thinks at this point that we can ever go back to having screeners' positions privatized has not watched the news or traveled abroad. American's are not high on most "likability" lists with any number of foreign countries. Countries that have factions whose main focus is to bring down the USA. You may recall that prior to 9/11 those positions were held by the private sector. Clearly they were inept.
My husband has a college education and is committed to serving his country. He has 16 years of service to the government in various capacities, including active military duty, which included ten months away from his family during the first gulf war. His specialty has always been related to policing. He is qualified for his position and puts up with a great deal of idiocy from the public and the higher ups who are less qualified than him! The GS pay scale is very much needed, as currently the pay situation is really left to your ability to kiss butt and play golf.