they only matter if you do are not applying for an agency that does not have a friends and family plan. If they do have one then there is no real reason to apply - you will not get the job.
Re: Actually
FedUp none Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:09 AM
Hear, Hear!
Questionable need for KSAs
Program Analyst NASA Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:23 AM
The federal requirement to complete KSAs, or to answer multiple pages of additional questions, including essay answers, invalidates the need for a resume.
This reduces the number of strong candidate applications, as few are willing to perform the redundant step of regurgitating their resume into a KSA form.
Does any private company require this? I believe the answer to be 'no', for good reasons. Why is my resume and interview insufficient? For some federal agencies (like NASA), resume is all they require, so there is also an arbitrary application of the standard.
Re: Questionable need for KSAs
HR Navy Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:46 PM
It is not a Federal requirement to request KSAs be included on a resume. It depends on the agency.
Re: Questionable need for KSAs
H.R. Specialist Big agency Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:10 AM
It isn't that your resume is insufficient; it's that going over resume's to look for skills and abilities is time-consuming and inaccurate.
Re: Questionable need for KSAs
HR Specialist DOD Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:29 AM
Actually, addressing KSA's identifies the strong candidates. If you cut and paste your position description onto your resume (believe me, HR Specialists can tell RIGHT AWAY that you did) what happens if the other 200 applicants do the same thing? Do you really think a manager is going to interview 200 people? How do you make a judgement as to who is probably best-qualified? KSA's. Those responses tell any reader the length and depth of your experience as it pertains to the job being filled.
Especially if you are applying for a vacancy announcement open to all U.S. citizens, there are a LOT of applicants who do not address KSA's. The ones who do (as long as they are otherwise qualified for the position) are the ones who get higher scores and are referred for selection. One other thing, most private sector people "rate" you at the interview, at least with the Feds, you've already written the KSA down, you should remember some of it when interviewed.
Whoa!
Analyst DOI Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:42 AM
Whoa. I don't think I'd hire you to write or edit my KSAs. This article does inclide some helpful points; however, it is riddled with unclear or ambiguous use of words, incorrect and inconsistent punctuation, and incorrect grammar. Would you advise us to use exclamation points in our KSAs to show how "passionate" we are? If not, please don't use them in this article. You could use the services of a good editor.
HRO PERSONNEL DO NOT READ KSA's
ANALYSIS USMC Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:02 AM
I have applied for three positions that required KSAs.
IN all three cases I put my past work history were it applied to the KSA questions.
The HRO Personnel did not read the KSAs they only read the resume. WHen I asked about this process - The HRO Personnel told me that no one was reading the KSAs. So I think the KSAs maybe good for some high ranking posiitons, but not good for the regular positions.
KSA Writing
HR Specialist DOD Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:12 AM
Some additional pointers: When addressing KSA's, do try to have your answers reflect "Where did I get this knowledge, where do I use it and Why do I use it".
Do not restate the KSA. Do not give a dictionary definition as your answer. These are both red flags that you do not possess this Knowledge, Skill or Ability.
Please do not start the KSA on the top left hand side of a 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of paper and have the end on the bottom right hand side, use bullets or idention to break up one huge papagraph.
When at all possible, give examples of your possession of the KSA. Many federal agencies are starting to ask interview questions such as "Tell me about a time when you had to calm down an irate customer, how did you do it?" The "Tell me about yourself" interview questions are starting to fall by the wayside.
Ask HR for a copy of the position description, then you have more ia lot more nformation on which to base your responses.
Re: KSA Writing
Analyst DOI Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:53 PM
these seem like really good points, thanks.
Re: KSA Writing
FedUp none Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:13 AM
Yes, good point about the standard interview questions. Seems many more agencies are moving toward a "Behavioral Interview" format. The questions of providing real-life examples of how you handled a particular situation are a move toward more status-quo private sector practices.
KSAs
Fed employee DOD Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:22 AM
KSAs are the biggest waste of time! I've applied for jobs that require KSAs that just repeat what's in my resume. If you're smart, you'll write a great resume that covers all aspects of your knowledge, skills, abilities, and past successes; that's what employers should be reading.
Re: KSAs
HR Spec VA Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:07 PM
You MAY be right that they're a waste of time. That's ultimately up to the selecting official/hiring supervisor to decide. However, as long as you're the one applying for a job, it's not your call to determine whether they should be included or not; "if you're smart" and you're serious about that job or announcement, you won't waste your time arguing about "what employers should be reading". Give them what is asked for and also write a good resume (if a private sector job) or federal application (if for a government job, either internally or to another agency).
Re: KSAs
ANOTHER FED VA Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:22 AM
Yeah, HR spec/VA --- and don't forget to "if you're smart" to understand that no matter how GOOD the KSAs are, how GOOD you do on the interview and how QUALIFIED you are for a position ---IF the division CHIEF doesn't LIKE you (for personal reasons) you can just FORGET about getting the position.
I speak from personal experience, having been the TOP qualified for a position on ALL counts and not being the candidate selected.
So WHO gets held accountable??????
Re: KSAs
HR Specialist DOD Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:21 AM
Please remember that your resume lists your duties, generally the ones that are listed in your position description and some applicants have been known to cut and paste. The HR reviewer can tell what your duties are, but do you actually do them?
That is where the KSA's come in. You have to tell the reviewer HOW you apply your knowledges, skills and abilities. For example:
Resume: I am responsible for providing HR advice and assistance to managers and employees about the Federal Employees Health Benefit Plan (FEHBA)
KSA: I use my knowledge of FEHBA regulations to counsel employees on how to pick a good plan, where to go for more information, when should you change to self-only coverage, when does your child have to come off of your FEHBA policy and where can I find private health insurance if my child doesn't have a job, the ramifications of part-time employment on health benefit premiums, etc.
Hope this illustration is helpful to you.
Re: KSAs
HR Spec VA Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:23 PM
Another fed, you may be exactly right - in which case, why would you WANT to work for a boss, immediate or otherwise, who "doesn't like you"? Especially since someone of your obvious abilities can surely get a better offer from a more reasonable, fair-minded boss? Particularly since there may be others who also have good qualifications, including KSA's, whom the boss likes better. Nobody, or very few people, gets hired for everything they apply to; use the non-selections as a learning experience for next time, not as an excuse to wallow in self-pity. Who gets held accountable? Ultimately, my friend, there is only one person most important to your career advancement; it's not the hiring manager or HR specialist.
Re: KSAs
Aerospace Engineer DoD Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:24 AM
If your KSA answers are just a repeat of your resume, you're not doing it right. The resume is a quick description of you past job duties, your KSA answers should detail exactly HOW you applied your knowledge and experience to achieve a postive result. Don't just say that you did it, use a specific example to tell exactly how your employer and customer benefitted and what the positive results were for the organization. Think: PROBLEM-ACTION-RESULT. Be specific!!
I can't speak for everybody else out there, but in getting my current job, my KSA answers were key. If the boss doing the hiring isn't reading them, he's not the kind of boss that you'd want to work for anyway.
Re: KSAs
ANOTHER FED VA Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:28 PM
HR Spec/VA---
in theory I totally agree with you--working for someone who apparently has biased unpleasant opinions of me would not be an ideal situation. However, when the position itself is something that a person has worked towards and aspired for during the course of their career (as in my case, 17 years to be exact) and then to have been determined the BEST qualified within the parameters of the selecting criteria it makes it rather difficult to remain open-minded and driven to try much else. This kind of action on behalf of INDIVIDUALS --i.e. to be allowed to squash a qualified, excellant candidate just because of personal feelings that a Chief SHOULD have a handle on (just by virtue of their position) is why the government ends up with A LOT of unqualified, losers on the top end of the spectrum.
What is the SENSE in knocking yourself out applying (the KSAs alone have sent many an individual screaming for sanity) if you don't stand any chance anyway???
professional development
claims authorizer social security administration Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:35 AM
I love all this information. Any tip to grow and improve myself.
KSAs DO AND DON'T MATTER
Claims representative Social Security Administration Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:43 AM
I THINK THE ARTICLE IN ITSELF IS GREAT. HOWEVER THERE IS ONE AREA WHERE KSAs DO NOT MATTER AND THAT IS WHEN THEY ARE APPLIED TO INTERNAL PROMOTIONS. AFTER REVIEWING PROMOTION PACKETS I HAVE LEARNED THAT CRAFTING AN ELOQUENT, WELL-PRESENTED RESUME MEANS NOTHING UNLESS YOU ARE THE ONE THE SELECTING OFFICIAL WANTS. I HAVE SEEN RESUMES THAT RUN CIRCLES AROUND THOSE OF SELECTEES IN THE WAY THEY LINK THEIR SKILLS AND EXPERIENCES TO THOSE QUALITIES SOUGHT. WITH THIS IN MIND, IT IS GREAT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE IMPORTANCE OF APPROACHING KSAs IN THE MANNER DESCRIBED IN THIS ARTICLE BUT ONCE YOU'RE IN-FOCUS ON MAKING THE SELECTOR "LIKE YOU".
KSA Preparation
Resource Manager US Army Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:20 AM
I agree with the idea of taking a break before hitting submit. You should take another look at them with a clear mind before sending them.
I advise copying the KSAs from the announcement or the on-line applications and pasting them onto a word document. That way you are not rushed by the ticking clock and can submit when you are sure they are right.
Also, save the KSAs in a file. There are many times KSAs are the same or similar from job to job. By saving the KSAs on a word document you can use them again with a slight adjustment for the new announcement. Why create them again and again?
Do KSAs Really Matter?
International Tax Law Specialist Department of the Treasury Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:22 AM
Thank you for this very informative article! I have always felt that KSAs were important and have attached them when I applied for jobs.
Your suggestions were wonderful and applicable! Thanks again!
KSAs
Human Resources Assistant Veterans Affairs Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:28 AM
A resume tells your job duties, but the KSAs are designed to find out what you actually know about performing those job duties. While KSAs might not be required, including them in your application package may help determine if you are better qualifed than other applicants.
KSAs = torture
Information Assistant Forest Service Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:13 PM
KSAs supporting document is only good for that particular Selecting Official. I have provided the exact copy to separate S.O. and got real mixed messages. One said that KSAs is all that gets looked at; the other said they only refer to the resumé. A lot of time, work, and energy goes into doing a complete application packet and how much is really NECESSARY? With the encouragement of less is more especially hard copy and paper reduction, why do we, the applicants, have to do submit totally unnecessary and useless pages and pages of paper?
KSA answer should tie back to your resume
Retired DOC Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:20 PM
The worst are those who lazily just cut and paste their resume sections into the KSA answer. That was a sure loss of interest on my part as it gave me no useful information. The answer to the KSA should reveal specific information related to the KSA with a reference back to the related job/education/activity listed in the resume.
Of course, the value depends on the crafting of the KSA question in the first place. I saw way to many questions that lacked the precision to differentiate candidates. If someone can justify the top weighted answer but not have the KSA you're looking for, your question needs work. In the case of a weak KSA question, the applicant should craft their answer to demonstrate the skill needed for the job even if the question ambiguously permits extraneous skills. Always think of how your answers can make your selection easy to justify for the reviewer.
KSAs
Thorn in the Side DOD Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:28 PM
Asking for a copy of hte PD is a waste of time. I once applied for something involving "programs." When I asked if they meant computer programs or social/administrative/etc. programs, they said they couldn't give any more information.
Good Information
Program Manager Dept of the Treasury Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:48 PM
This is good information for anyone who want to enhance their chances in getting that dream job within the government!
KSA's are like a term paper, only not
Former Staffing Specialist for 15 years, Now Union Steward DOD Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:45 PM
In the old days, long before only 1 year of specialized experience was qualifying, there were no KSA's. Then OPM changed the qualification standards handbook & DOD agencies (& probably others) started to require KSA's, usually on a voluntary basis. At some HRO's, personnelists used only the SF171/resume to qualify the applicant, then used only the KSA's to determine quality of experience based on management's crediting plan. The selecting official would only receive the KSA's of best qualified candidates because the resume contained Privacy Act data. Automated recruitment changed applications so that management selects a few key words &/or phrases to pull out resumes from the database. Now HRSC examines the resumes to qualify the applicant & the selecting official gets a sanitized resume. Requirements for actual face interviews are rarely required. About 30 people were just hired in my building who were unknown and never interviewed. The only call was the job offer. Just keep trying.
KSA's and management
Security agent DHS Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:45 AM
It makes no difference how knowledgeable, how skillful, or how much ability you have when applying for a federal job, especially in management (except for a select few).
Managers cannot make decisions, don't know all they should know about what each of their employees does and don't seem to care. Our manager got the management position sheerly on what clique he belonged to and who he kept company with.
It is very sad to say that there is favoritism within the government and that will never change.
Re: KSA's and management
Retired DoD Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:29 AM
I had a former supervisor tell me that managers don't need to know the work. They just need to know how to manage employees.
Go to work for VHA
Entitled Federal employee Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:24 AM
No knowledge, Skills required! The higher up the management, the fewest knowledge needed!
Who you know, not What you know
ASI FAA Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:56 AM
For several years I was trying to acquire a position at the FAA Academy.
After several times and years of updating my KSAO's, I finally asked the manager in person about my chances of a given position.
He said that he had no personal input and pointed out a member of the reviewing committee, who happened to be walking in the corridor of the academy, where I was attending a course.
The member, a good person, stated in a political manner that the process was fair and a matrix was used to pick the best qualified candidate.
Later, I walked into the office in another building where the potential position was located.
Unbeknownst that I was a candidate, I asked another
member of the committee about the process.
He explained that they did use a matrix, identified the top three candidates and "picked who they wanted anyway".
At this time, I stopped wasting my time and their time and stopped the time consuming process of applying for positions that I thought I was qualified.
Yes they do matter, but for whom are they written?
Engineer DOI Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:48 PM
At our agency, the HR people are selecting the short-list candidates to pass on to the actual selection officials. This might be fine for secretaries and contract managers, but not for technical specialties of whose work the HR people have little or no understanding. A couple years ago, we were hiring a GS-14 technical specialist requiring unusually high level of specialized skills. Through reliable sources, I learned HR sent "You are qualified but sorry you didn't make the short list" to the two candidates I thought were best qualified. Fortunately, a higher manager got the whole list and directed them to expand the short list. One of the two eventually got the job, but the lesson is to include all the right buzzwords in the KSAs for the HR folks - mentoring, collaborative, standards-based, innovative, etc. Put things like "I performed a 3-D FEM analysis of the heat flow through the structure..." in your resume for the (we hope technically knowledgeable) selection officials.
KSAs are a joke
Information Assistant Forest Service Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:41 AM
I just read all comments. I find it distressing that there is even so much discussion on KSAs. There are so many pros and cons about the process; evidently it doesn't work! Take heed! I'm left wondering if I will ever have a chance with any position I apply for. I'm a lower level employee and though I'm always close, usually in the top three, I haven't been selected. And forget about getting any feedback. No one will provided that anymore. I haven't a clue what I'm doing wrong or right. So may be I need to put in what I think 'they' want to hear and forget about telling the truth. I'm willing to learn; give me a chance!
KSA's
COS BOP Tue Jul 7, 2009 8:23 AM
I can assure you that KSA's and performance evaluations DO NOT matter when selecting for jobs/promotions in the Bureau of Prisons. The BOP operates strickly on the "who you know" system.
KSA questions
tsr ssa Wed Jul 8, 2009 11:55 AM
They really do not enhance or make a difference in your job expereince because they are seldom read by the interviewer, so I think they should be eliminated in the hiring process. they are questions that should be asked face to face at the live interview.
KSA's
Manager IRS Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:13 AM
Writing KSA's are one of the most frustrating tasks I do in my job. You must use the exact buzz word to get the points. You only know the buzz word if you have ranked a similar position. You can never tell anyone exactly what they are looking for and your suppose to forget it as soon as you turn in the ranking package. If someone is ranking and their friend is in the package or someone that higher level managers want, they somehow happen to say all the right things. It has gone both ways for me personally and I think it is the worst process I've ever seen! I know great writers that are very poor employees.
Do KSAs Really Matter?
grunt grunt@gmail.com Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:50 PM
KSAs should be done away with. The questions can be covered in a in person interview. The resume should be the guiding factor on making the cert list.
3 things that should be changed:
1 NO MORE KSAS, most persons selected from KSAs can ONLY write and are not good candidates for the position.
2 ALL interviews should have to be in person unless it is absolutely impossible.
3. Federal Interview panels should be able to ask unscripted questions, the way it is done in the private sector, that way the only mediocre candidates aren't selected..
KSA 86 them
IT Specialist US Trustees Office Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:44 AM
I say get rid of them if the government agencies don't care how or where the responses derived from. If one can pay someone else to write their KSA's what's the point. KSA's provide the foundation for an interview. KSA responses gives the employer some insight as to how you would respond in different situations. If someone else writes responses to KSA's for a job you are applying for it's insignificant because you will not respond in a live interview as you responded on the KSA's. That's our problem: Most people in America are lazy and don't want to be bothered with KSA's. Revert back to the simple application form and call it a day.
Actually
Retired DoD
Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:19 AM
they only matter if you do are not applying for an agency that does not have a friends and family plan. If they do have one then there is no real reason to apply - you will not get the job.
Re: Actually
none
Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:09 AM
Questionable need for KSAs
NASA
Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:23 AM
The federal requirement to complete KSAs, or to answer multiple pages of additional questions, including essay answers, invalidates the need for a resume.
This reduces the number of strong candidate applications, as few are willing to perform the redundant step of regurgitating their resume into a KSA form.
Does any private company require this? I believe the answer to be 'no', for good reasons. Why is my resume and interview insufficient? For some federal agencies (like NASA), resume is all they require, so there is also an arbitrary application of the standard.
Re: Questionable need for KSAs
Navy
Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:46 PM
Re: Questionable need for KSAs
Big agency
Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:10 AM
Re: Questionable need for KSAs
DOD
Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:29 AM
Especially if you are applying for a vacancy announcement open to all U.S. citizens, there are a LOT of applicants who do not address KSA's. The ones who do (as long as they are otherwise qualified for the position) are the ones who get higher scores and are referred for selection. One other thing, most private sector people "rate" you at the interview, at least with the Feds, you've already written the KSA down, you should remember some of it when interviewed.
Whoa!
DOI
Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:42 AM
Whoa. I don't think I'd hire you to write or edit my KSAs. This article does inclide some helpful points; however, it is riddled with unclear or ambiguous use of words, incorrect and inconsistent punctuation, and incorrect grammar. Would you advise us to use exclamation points in our KSAs to show how "passionate" we are? If not, please don't use them in this article. You could use the services of a good editor.
HRO PERSONNEL DO NOT READ KSA's
USMC
Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:02 AM
I have applied for three positions that required KSAs.
IN all three cases I put my past work history were it applied to the KSA questions.
The HRO Personnel did not read the KSAs they only read the resume. WHen I asked about this process - The HRO Personnel told me that no one was reading the KSAs. So I think the KSAs maybe good for some high ranking posiitons, but not good for the regular positions.
KSA Writing
DOD
Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:12 AM
Some additional pointers: When addressing KSA's, do try to have your answers reflect "Where did I get this knowledge, where do I use it and Why do I use it".
Do not restate the KSA. Do not give a dictionary definition as your answer. These are both red flags that you do not possess this Knowledge, Skill or Ability.
Please do not start the KSA on the top left hand side of a 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of paper and have the end on the bottom right hand side, use bullets or idention to break up one huge papagraph.
When at all possible, give examples of your possession of the KSA. Many federal agencies are starting to ask interview questions such as "Tell me about a time when you had to calm down an irate customer, how did you do it?" The "Tell me about yourself" interview questions are starting to fall by the wayside.
Ask HR for a copy of the position description, then you have more ia lot more nformation on which to base your responses.
Re: KSA Writing
DOI
Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:53 PM
Re: KSA Writing
none
Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:13 AM
KSAs
DOD
Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:22 AM
KSAs are the biggest waste of time! I've applied for jobs that require KSAs that just repeat what's in my resume. If you're smart, you'll write a great resume that covers all aspects of your knowledge, skills, abilities, and past successes; that's what employers should be reading.
Re: KSAs
VA
Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:07 PM
Re: KSAs
VA
Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:22 AM
I speak from personal experience, having been the TOP qualified for a position on ALL counts and not being the candidate selected.
So WHO gets held accountable??????
Re: KSAs
DOD
Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:21 AM
That is where the KSA's come in. You have to tell the reviewer HOW you apply your knowledges, skills and abilities. For example:
Resume: I am responsible for providing HR advice and assistance to managers and employees about the Federal Employees Health Benefit Plan (FEHBA)
KSA: I use my knowledge of FEHBA regulations to counsel employees on how to pick a good plan, where to go for more information, when should you change to self-only coverage, when does your child have to come off of your FEHBA policy and where can I find private health insurance if my child doesn't have a job, the ramifications of part-time employment on health benefit premiums, etc.
Hope this illustration is helpful to you.
Re: KSAs
VA
Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:23 PM
Re: KSAs
DoD
Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:24 AM
I can't speak for everybody else out there, but in getting my current job, my KSA answers were key. If the boss doing the hiring isn't reading them, he's not the kind of boss that you'd want to work for anyway.
Re: KSAs
VA
Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:28 PM
in theory I totally agree with you--working for someone who apparently has biased unpleasant opinions of me would not be an ideal situation. However, when the position itself is something that a person has worked towards and aspired for during the course of their career (as in my case, 17 years to be exact) and then to have been determined the BEST qualified within the parameters of the selecting criteria it makes it rather difficult to remain open-minded and driven to try much else. This kind of action on behalf of INDIVIDUALS --i.e. to be allowed to squash a qualified, excellant candidate just because of personal feelings that a Chief SHOULD have a handle on (just by virtue of their position) is why the government ends up with A LOT of unqualified, losers on the top end of the spectrum.
What is the SENSE in knocking yourself out applying (the KSAs alone have sent many an individual screaming for sanity) if you don't stand any chance anyway???
professional development
social security administration
Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:35 AM
I love all this information. Any tip to grow and improve myself.
KSAs DO AND DON'T MATTER
Social Security Administration
Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:43 AM
I THINK THE ARTICLE IN ITSELF IS GREAT. HOWEVER THERE IS ONE AREA WHERE KSAs DO NOT MATTER AND THAT IS WHEN THEY ARE APPLIED TO INTERNAL PROMOTIONS. AFTER REVIEWING PROMOTION PACKETS I HAVE LEARNED THAT CRAFTING AN ELOQUENT, WELL-PRESENTED RESUME MEANS NOTHING UNLESS YOU ARE THE ONE THE SELECTING OFFICIAL WANTS. I HAVE SEEN RESUMES THAT RUN CIRCLES AROUND THOSE OF SELECTEES IN THE WAY THEY LINK THEIR SKILLS AND EXPERIENCES TO THOSE QUALITIES SOUGHT. WITH THIS IN MIND, IT IS GREAT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE IMPORTANCE OF APPROACHING KSAs IN THE MANNER DESCRIBED IN THIS ARTICLE BUT ONCE YOU'RE IN-FOCUS ON MAKING THE SELECTOR "LIKE YOU".
KSA Preparation
US Army
Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:20 AM
I agree with the idea of taking a break before hitting submit. You should take another look at them with a clear mind before sending them.
I advise copying the KSAs from the announcement or the on-line applications and pasting them onto a word document. That way you are not rushed by the ticking clock and can submit when you are sure they are right.
Also, save the KSAs in a file. There are many times KSAs are the same or similar from job to job. By saving the KSAs on a word document you can use them again with a slight adjustment for the new announcement. Why create them again and again?
Do KSAs Really Matter?
Department of the Treasury
Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:22 AM
Thank you for this very informative article! I have always felt that KSAs were important and have attached them when I applied for jobs.
Your suggestions were wonderful and applicable! Thanks again!
KSAs
Veterans Affairs
Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:28 AM
A resume tells your job duties, but the KSAs are designed to find out what you actually know about performing those job duties. While KSAs might not be required, including them in your application package may help determine if you are better qualifed than other applicants.
KSAs = torture
Forest Service
Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:13 PM
KSAs supporting document is only good for that particular Selecting Official. I have provided the exact copy to separate S.O. and got real mixed messages. One said that KSAs is all that gets looked at; the other said they only refer to the resumé. A lot of time, work, and energy goes into doing a complete application packet and how much is really NECESSARY? With the encouragement of less is more especially hard copy and paper reduction, why do we, the applicants, have to do submit totally unnecessary and useless pages and pages of paper?
KSA answer should tie back to your resume
DOC
Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:20 PM
The worst are those who lazily just cut and paste their resume sections into the KSA answer. That was a sure loss of interest on my part as it gave me no useful information. The answer to the KSA should reveal specific information related to the KSA with a reference back to the related job/education/activity listed in the resume.
Of course, the value depends on the crafting of the KSA question in the first place. I saw way to many questions that lacked the precision to differentiate candidates. If someone can justify the top weighted answer but not have the KSA you're looking for, your question needs work. In the case of a weak KSA question, the applicant should craft their answer to demonstrate the skill needed for the job even if the question ambiguously permits extraneous skills. Always think of how your answers can make your selection easy to justify for the reviewer.
KSAs
DOD
Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:28 PM
Asking for a copy of hte PD is a waste of time. I once applied for something involving "programs." When I asked if they meant computer programs or social/administrative/etc. programs, they said they couldn't give any more information.
Good Information
Dept of the Treasury
Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:48 PM
This is good information for anyone who want to enhance their chances in getting that dream job within the government!
KSA's are like a term paper, only not
DOD
Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:45 PM
In the old days, long before only 1 year of specialized experience was qualifying, there were no KSA's. Then OPM changed the qualification standards handbook & DOD agencies (& probably others) started to require KSA's, usually on a voluntary basis. At some HRO's, personnelists used only the SF171/resume to qualify the applicant, then used only the KSA's to determine quality of experience based on management's crediting plan. The selecting official would only receive the KSA's of best qualified candidates because the resume contained Privacy Act data. Automated recruitment changed applications so that management selects a few key words &/or phrases to pull out resumes from the database. Now HRSC examines the resumes to qualify the applicant & the selecting official gets a sanitized resume. Requirements for actual face interviews are rarely required. About 30 people were just hired in my building who were unknown and never interviewed. The only call was the job offer. Just keep trying.
KSA's and management
DHS
Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:45 AM
It makes no difference how knowledgeable, how skillful, or how much ability you have when applying for a federal job, especially in management (except for a select few).
Managers cannot make decisions, don't know all they should know about what each of their employees does and don't seem to care. Our manager got the management position sheerly on what clique he belonged to and who he kept company with.
It is very sad to say that there is favoritism within the government and that will never change.
Re: KSA's and management
DoD
Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:29 AM
Go to work for VHA
Federal employee
Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:24 AM
No knowledge, Skills required! The higher up the management, the fewest knowledge needed!
Who you know, not What you know
FAA
Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:56 AM
For several years I was trying to acquire a position at the FAA Academy.
After several times and years of updating my KSAO's, I finally asked the manager in person about my chances of a given position.
He said that he had no personal input and pointed out a member of the reviewing committee, who happened to be walking in the corridor of the academy, where I was attending a course.
The member, a good person, stated in a political manner that the process was fair and a matrix was used to pick the best qualified candidate.
Later, I walked into the office in another building where the potential position was located.
Unbeknownst that I was a candidate, I asked another
member of the committee about the process.
He explained that they did use a matrix, identified the top three candidates and "picked who they wanted anyway".
At this time, I stopped wasting my time and their time and stopped the time consuming process of applying for positions that I thought I was qualified.
Yes they do matter, but for whom are they written?
DOI
Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:48 PM
At our agency, the HR people are selecting the short-list candidates to pass on to the actual selection officials. This might be fine for secretaries and contract managers, but not for technical specialties of whose work the HR people have little or no understanding. A couple years ago, we were hiring a GS-14 technical specialist requiring unusually high level of specialized skills. Through reliable sources, I learned HR sent "You are qualified but sorry you didn't make the short list" to the two candidates I thought were best qualified. Fortunately, a higher manager got the whole list and directed them to expand the short list. One of the two eventually got the job, but the lesson is to include all the right buzzwords in the KSAs for the HR folks - mentoring, collaborative, standards-based, innovative, etc. Put things like "I performed a 3-D FEM analysis of the heat flow through the structure..." in your resume for the (we hope technically knowledgeable) selection officials.
KSAs are a joke
Forest Service
Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:41 AM
I just read all comments. I find it distressing that there is even so much discussion on KSAs. There are so many pros and cons about the process; evidently it doesn't work! Take heed! I'm left wondering if I will ever have a chance with any position I apply for. I'm a lower level employee and though I'm always close, usually in the top three, I haven't been selected. And forget about getting any feedback. No one will provided that anymore. I haven't a clue what I'm doing wrong or right. So may be I need to put in what I think 'they' want to hear and forget about telling the truth. I'm willing to learn; give me a chance!
KSA's
BOP
Tue Jul 7, 2009 8:23 AM
I can assure you that KSA's and performance evaluations DO NOT matter when selecting for jobs/promotions in the Bureau of Prisons. The BOP operates strickly on the "who you know" system.
KSA questions
ssa
Wed Jul 8, 2009 11:55 AM
They really do not enhance or make a difference in your job expereince because they are seldom read by the interviewer, so I think they should be eliminated in the hiring process. they are questions that should be asked face to face at the live interview.
KSA's
IRS
Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:13 AM
Writing KSA's are one of the most frustrating tasks I do in my job. You must use the exact buzz word to get the points. You only know the buzz word if you have ranked a similar position. You can never tell anyone exactly what they are looking for and your suppose to forget it as soon as you turn in the ranking package. If someone is ranking and their friend is in the package or someone that higher level managers want, they somehow happen to say all the right things. It has gone both ways for me personally and I think it is the worst process I've ever seen! I know great writers that are very poor employees.
Do KSAs Really Matter?
grunt@gmail.com
Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:50 PM
KSAs should be done away with. The questions can be covered in a in person interview. The resume should be the guiding factor on making the cert list.
3 things that should be changed:
1 NO MORE KSAS, most persons selected from KSAs can ONLY write and are not good candidates for the position.
2 ALL interviews should have to be in person unless it is absolutely impossible.
3. Federal Interview panels should be able to ask unscripted questions, the way it is done in the private sector, that way the only mediocre candidates aren't selected..
KSA 86 them
US Trustees Office
Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:44 AM
I say get rid of them if the government agencies don't care how or where the responses derived from. If one can pay someone else to write their KSA's what's the point. KSA's provide the foundation for an interview. KSA responses gives the employer some insight as to how you would respond in different situations. If someone else writes responses to KSA's for a job you are applying for it's insignificant because you will not respond in a live interview as you responded on the KSA's. That's our problem: Most people in America are lazy and don't want to be bothered with KSA's. Revert back to the simple application form and call it a day.