Contract Operations Area Supervisor Defense Contract Management Agency Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:34 AM
Are you aware that the rank and file Federal Contract Management personnel that are in the War Theatre (Iraq & Afghanistan) are making over $200K/year. This would include a 35% pay differential, 35% hazard pay and 40-60 hours of overtime per pay period. Their pay is so high that GS 11 thru 13s can only go over for 5-7 months. They have to return when their annual pay hits the cap (CONUS + OCUNUS), wait six months and go back. They might not be carrying weapons but the war could not go on without them. They are the unsung heroes of all war efforts. "No Army has ever won a war without a successful supply train". Many of those supplies are purchased or managed by our civil servants within the War Theatre. All DoD supplies and munitions are purchased by civilians that get no credit for "fighting" the war. I'm fond of saying "we" won the war.
Re: Federal Employees Total Income
Engineer FAA Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:16 AM
Here's a thought, let's stop the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, pull our troops out, remove our bases in all foreign countries, stop protecting countries like Japan and Germany (who are more than capable of funding a defense force and protecting themselves), and stop spending $800 billion (total) each year on policing the world.
We have more than enough problems here at home.
"To him whom much has been given, much is required"
worked when we were a rich nation. Now we are paupers, and borrowing money on a credit card to give to charity not only makes no sense, it's downright stupid.
"Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?"
(best quote I ever heard)
then we won't ever need to worry about overseas federal employees making more than Congress.
Problem solved.
Re: Federal Employees Total Income
Attorney DOD Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:41 AM
Engineer
FAA
Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:16 AM
And we can rename our country Shangri-La or Utopia; Pollyanna will govern us; and we will all live happily ever after.
Re: Federal Employees Total Income
Worker Bee Fed Agency Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:29 AM
What?!?! We are still in Iraq and Afghanistan? I thought the president promised us (over and over, while he was Candidate Obama) that he would have all our troops home by July. And I thought he promised the whole world that he (personally) would close Gitmo. Do you mean to tell me that is still open, too? Does this mean we cannot believe every utterance of the Democratic administration - both Executive and Legislative branches?
With respect to salaries, I've worked for agencies under the GS schedule and those who have their own schedule. Don't let anyone fool you - under the Pay for Performance-type plans, you can receive a Fully Successful rating and get a raise as low as 1%. Gee, now who is getting the rest of that Pool of Funds. . . . Could it be that management is saving it for themselves?
Federal Earnings
Retired USPS Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:37 AM
Wait a moment.... Isn't there a new czar for private sector renumeration? How come there isn't a czar for setting the pay of Federal Managers, Department Heads and Political Appointees? Oh yeah. I forgot. The new administration is transparent. Yeah. That's it.
Re: Federal Earnings
HR Specialist NASA Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:50 PM
Not ONE of these pay scales are "new". Every single one has been in place during the last 8 MISERABLE years that "W" (pronounced dumb-yuh) was in power, the first several of which Republicans also had a majority in both the House and the Senate.
People who live in glass houses should think twice before insinuating wrong-doing or problems in the current, HONORABLE for a CHANGE administration.
I confess, and am proud, to believe that President Obama has his heart in the right place, and deserves our respect and support, far, far more than "W".
Re: Federal Earnings
Supervisor DOA Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:37 AM
HR Spec, while your creative use of upper case letters and your childish little word games with the former President's name are entertaining, that doesn't demonstrate anything except for the fact that you don't like him. It says nothing of substance about the article.
Re: Federal Earnings
IRS Agent IRS Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:18 AM
Kind of like what Retired USPS did with his "transparency slam" against Obama, especially in light of the fact that this was happening during George Bush's entire tenure. So what exactly is your point?
Re: Federal Earnings
Wkr Navy Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:35 AM
And, HR Spec, there have been alternative pay plans before former President Bush's administration.
Re: Federal Earnings
HR Specialist Small Agency Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:12 AM
HR Specialist, you might find it interesting that all of the pay plans identified in the article were established during the Clinton Administration. I'm assuming you haven't been an HR Specialist long...
So, how do I get a job at the SEC
DOD DOD Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:46 AM
I'm curious, then, why people aren't flocking to the SEC or other area where the pay scales are higher?
Re: So, how do I get a job at the SEC
Scientist DHHS Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:19 AM
Actually, I think the competition for jobs with the SEC and similar financial agencies are probably extremely high normally and especially right now in this economy. Keep in mind one thing, these applicants and employees are most likely those with advanced degrees from some of the world's most prestigious institutions of higher learning (e.g. Oxford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.). Last I check, not too many people are qualified for these jobs.
Outside of this down economy, these employees are likely to commend salaries that are way over $200K in the private industry so they likely sacrificed an enormous sum of money for "lower" paid public service jobs WHILE the economy was booming in favor of federal job security. It would be extremely hypocritical to fault them for their $200K salary now when they gave up the huge salary of private industry years ago to join public service when the government was desperate for their talents/skills during the "good" years.
Re: So, how do I get a job at the SEC
HR Specialist Dept of Labor Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:23 AM
Why aren't people flocking to the SEC? Money isn't everything!! I took a cut in pay just to get out of there.
A few years ago, after the higher pay, all of the Employee/Labor Relations Staff that were over 50 were targeted and left within a 4 month period. Most of the staff that remained ended up filing and winning EEO complaints over the next couple years. Most of those complaints were settled for what the employees were asking, rather than have the SEC suffer the embarassment of public disclosure of how they were treating their employees.
If that is how they treat the people in Human Resources that are charged with defending the Agency against complaints, how do you think they treat the rest of the folks?
Re: So, how do I get a job at the SEC
IT Specialist VA Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:40 AM
The question should be, how could one qualify for a job at the SEC? I tried and found it was difficult to change job series within the agency without loosing grades and steps. Now we are talking about inter agencies here, HR always want one to work their way up even the job was annouced as certain grade and one does qualify for.
Re: So, how do I get a job at the SEC
Beach Bum Retired DoD Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:47 AM
Those investigation Jobs at the SEC are reserved only for members of Goldman Sacks, Wall St, or the hedgies. Regular honest folk need not apply.
And no, I am not saying the career workers are dishonest - not the case. It is all those Wall St types they bring in to work there who reek of the Money system.
Re: So, how do I get a job at the SEC
IRS Agent IRS Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:29 PM
If you want to be an SEC Examiner or Manager, you need to have either a CPA or a law degree. That is why everyone doesn't work at the SEC and why they have had trouble recruiting and retaining employees. Unlike one post, they do not come from Goldman Sacks and Wall Street as their bonuses are larger than the SEC's salaries, at least until this year.
Members of Congress and Civilian Pay
Program Analyst DCMA Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:56 AM
Unlike members of Congress, we civilian employees do not get special payments to run our offices, pay staff, and other cost item issues. We also do not get special consideration from lobbyists and other well healed people who intend on influecing our vote for the mutual benefit of them and the member. All members become rich even though they must maintain two households and other such claims. Too bad common government workers cannot pad their lifestyles as the members do. I would gladly trade my huge pay and benefits for the opportunity to act as royalty as a member and live the life that just seems to escape me and my fellow civilian workers. Congress is not underpaid in the slightest.
Federal Employees who make more than Members of Co
Budget Analyst Defense Logistics Agency Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:00 AM
Don't forget about all of the federal employees and managers who routinely ride the "comp time" gravy train - especially those at the GS13 and GS14 level who are on alternate work schedules whereby they have one day off per week (or pay period) and rather than take their day off, the work it (either in the office or from home) ; often exceeding the normal number of hours; and earn comp time. Of course they never use the comp time so they are paid at the rate at which it was earned. We have manages who consistently get an additional 4-5 days pay each pay period. They bring home their laptops and get paid seven days a week. I'm amazed that no one ever picks up on he fact that managers "need" to be paid 50-80 hours per week when their subordinates are not required to work additional hours. . . .
I won't even begin to address the annual payouts in restored leave. They should be disciplined for abusing their positions and padding their pensions. It is disgraceful.
Re: Federal Employees who make more than Members of Co
Scientist DHHS Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:37 AM
Must be an agency specific thing. For us, upper management (i.e. agency director) makes submitting for comp time so much of a hassle that it's not even worth the submission. If one is willing to submit all the paperwork for comp time, once comp time is granted, it must be used within one to two pay periods and ABSOLUTELY no payout for comp time. Additionally, anything above GS12-Step6 does not qualify for overtime pay.
I say, if you feel so strongly against it then a simply anonymous email to your local Congressman or Representative detailing everything you stated could get things on the way to be corrected pretty quickly (especially in this economy).
Re: Federal Employees who make more than Members of Co
IT Specialist VA Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:45 AM
Actually, our agency does not pay overtime anymore.
All comp time has to be pre-authorize.
And if you don't keep track of your comp time and use it up within a certain period, you will loose it.
Salary Database
Paralegal Specialist USPS Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:08 AM
Within days of your article about the database, access to the database was blocked by my agency.
Re: Salary Database
IT Specialist Treasury Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:04 PM
That's because you make too much so the database blocked your access. lol
Overall Wages
HR Asst forest service Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:17 AM
This sounds like Reagan's "Welfare Cadillac" argument. One equals all. I work in the new centralized forest service HR building, and we are overworked and underpaid. Further, the forest service has been working with OPM to find a way to cut our wages even further. No more 7/9/11 career ladders, no more starting new employees with master's degrees any higher than the GS-07 (if you're fortunate enough to find that high a position), and more flexibility for managers in assigning work above and beyond one's position description. The result--morale is in the toilet. The proferred solution? Make working conditions so difficult for those in the professional series that they'll leave the agency--and replace them with GS-04s. Training is non-existent, as are performance awards, and career development options continue to shrink. This all comes as a result of George W's efforts to replace government workers with private contractors--who screw up left and right. What a future America has ahead.
Re: Overall Wages
Scientist DHHS Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:30 AM
Perfect example of the misguided effort to lower the salary of government employees to "match" those of the private sector. Ridiculously misguided notion that has way too many holes to address here. In any case, the end result will be that those with advanced degrees and experience will leave public service for private sector jobs while those that are barely educated (i.e. GED, high school only, community college, Associated, laughing stock/non-challenging no name undergraduate, UofPhoenix, etc.) applicants will take these positions that they are unqualified for and make a mess of everything THUS leading to more mockery of the performance of the government. End result, more outsourcing of public sector jobs to the private industry via contractor jobs thus costing the government even more money. . . try 150%-200% overhead in addition to contractors' salaries for jobs that a well trained and qualified GS could do.
Re: Overall Wages
IT Spec USDA Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:12 PM
Dear Scientist,
Barely educated? Excuse me? I have a high school diploma, two years of college (2 semesters on Dean's List), 20 years of private sector employment experience, 20 years of public sector employment, have taken some formal courses, and am autodidactic (definition for you - self-teaching). I thought we were responding here to an article and comments, not trashing the rest of the Federal workforce, which is no better nor worse than any other large group of people.
As for a few isolated Feds making more than Congress, your "qualifications" point makes more sense there. When we apply for a job with the Fed, we must meet minimum qualifications in education and/or job experience. There are no minimum qualifications in education or experience for members of Congress.
Salaries
Supply Technician DOD Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:18 AM
That doesn't take into consideration those of us that are low levels, such as GS-06, making $51,000. The article sounds like we're all raking in the money, when we're not.
Re: Salaries
HR DOD Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:22 PM
GS-06, making $51,000? Where are you at? I wish I was making that much.
Re: Salaries
Immigration Officer USCIS Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:02 AM
No Joke! I am a GS-9 and don't make that much! You must be in the DC area and doing the job that a GS-3/4 does elsewhere in the country. DC is grade creep heaven, plus they hand out gravy locality pay.
Fed Employee Salaries
cash cow EPA Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:21 AM
Do you include Pres.,VP, cabinet members, congress, etc., as federal employees? They all get perks the regular employees do not, i.e., travel, franking privileges, health care, six figure retirements, Capital bldg. fitness center, restaurants, massages, handball,squash courts, and many other perks the average GS grunts are not allowed. This article is full of obfuscation and facts that jump around in order to confuse. This doesn't include campaign contributions Congress can keep if not spent. No wonder they all end up multi millionaires.
VA pay
physician VA Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:33 AM
Of course some people make more the 200K. Up until two years ago, the VA could not hire a Radiologist, or cardiologist or lots of other high paying medical specialist because of that pay cap. They had high cost contracts. They still have trouble due to the difficulty of paying high salaries.
Federal employee who gwt more pay than Congress
Revenue Agent Internal revenue Service Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:10 PM
While I am appalled at some of these figures, you are not comparing incomes and I am not talking investments. The pay figures include awards given to federal employees which is about their only way of earning money. How much do Congressmen make giving speeches when they are not in session?
Maybe it would be fairer to compare earned income or salaries before awards
Re: Federal employee who gwt more pay than Congress
Immigration Officer USCIS Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:06 AM
Actually both the House and Senate have passed rules prohibiting members from accepting honorariums while in office. If they do, it must be given to a charity in their honor. Now when you talk about the other perks and income *wink wink nod nod*, many of our elected misrepresentatives make out like the criminals they are...i.e. Mr. Murtha and the bribery sting.
OT
Powerplant Operator Corps of Engineers Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:54 PM
There are certain federal employees who are not on any of the regular pay schedules. Most USBR and USACE power plant employees are paid the average of the union scale for the geographic area, it can often be double or triple what the WG rate is for the same job series This includes the double and triple time OT rates. Many employees often exceed $130K plus annually.
Re: OT
Power System Dispatcher DOE Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:57 PM
My salary as a system dispatcher is determined by the prevailing industry wage. With overtime, I'm over $200k per year. Don't blame the government - DOE simply pays me on par with what the private sector thinks my position is worth.
Re: OT
Immigration Officer USCIS Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:09 AM
As a former WG employee I know, and those positions RARELY come open. I tried for years to get into one, even as a trainee, but no dice. I had to make the jump to a desk job to get a chance to make money. The WG system is too screwed up.
Comparative salaries
Retired INS Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:25 PM
Why shouldn't federal employees earn more than Congressmen and Senators, who only "work" three days/week and have staffers who do their heavy lifting?
salary
Store shelf worker BX Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:38 PM
Money is not everything. Whatever we are given, we must make do of it. There are far more value in this life than money. People around Washington worship money at the expense of their souls. See what happened to Berlusconi. He has lots of money and spent it on an escort service. Is there happiness there? He's now got a confirmed space in hell with his name on it. Is it worth it? You decide.
congressional pay
Retired Insulator Puget Sound Naval Shipyard Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:01 AM
It's neat there are federal employees making more money than members of congress. Of course, federal employees do more than members of congress so they should get more pay. If members of congress got paid for production they would starve to death for lack thereof!
Congressional Pay
Beach Bum Retired DoD Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:43 AM
Now if there was ever a group that needed pay for performance it would be our congressmen and senators. In fact, they perform so poorly they would have to pay us for their antics.
I, for one, do not feel sorry for them one bit.
Making More Than a Member of Congress
Human Resources Specialist DoD Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:20 AM
While the cap on basic GS pay is $153,200, and the cap on adjusted NSPS pay is $160,860, with overtime and other premium pay, bonuses, awards, overseas allowances, etc. etc., the aggregate limitation on pay is generally that of Executive Level I, or $196,700. For employees working in overseas contingency operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, and certain other areas in Southwest Asia, the increased annual premium pay cap is equal to that of the Vice President's salary, or $227,300. I know of many employees currently serving in SWA whose pay, with overtime, approaches this level.
Not True.
Helpdesk DOT Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:47 PM
Federal Government employee's doesn't make more money then Memember of Congress. I have my Assoicate Degree, and Bachelor and three (3) more classes earning Master Degree and I am only make $50 something thousand dollars a year help desk for the Federal Government. You found African American employee's making less money on federal job and employee's without degree's and contractor's make more as well. I think it is so sad that education means nothing why go to school to better yourself.
Re: Not True.
NA HHS Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:01 PM
Education opens doors, it does not automatically guarantee a higher income. Your sense of entitlement is appalling as are all the grammatical mistakes in your posting from someone who is "educated". If based solely on academic qualifications, your 50K salary fits perfectly for someone with an undergraduate degree as most new graduates with a BA/BS qualify only for GS5/7 to start.
Re: Not True.
UL Manager ICE Mon Aug 3, 2009 1:38 PM
Yikes. Do you see the problem here, folks?
I sincerely hope that this is a joke.
Oh, man, we are going down fast...
Don't Kill the Golden Goose
Sick of the Bull Retired Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:48 PM
Many high level fed employees work their butts off and put in alot of time. So those who have a gripe don't get it. To the Beach Bum, those on Wall St should not be demonized; we need talented folks in the SEC and Fed Reserve to help get us out of this mess. The comments above range from the idiotic to value added. But please, don't destroy the system. I have worked under both GS and Pay for Performance. Pay for Performance is manipulated by managers and those doing more and doing it well are not always compensated. Let's see what Mr Berry at OPM has to offer. Hope he acknowledges that we need to attract and retain talented folks for the challenges ahead.
Obama
P. DHS Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:00 PM
Obama never said bring our troops home! I was closely listening (and supporting at the time) him throughout the election. He was very, very careful to never say, "bring our troops home." He always said, get out of Iraq. No-one ever listens anymore. I got it, didn't you?Too staring at the the pin stripes.
Re: Obama
Diversity Manager DOL Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:06 PM
he said 16 months and ALL the troops would be out of Iraq, tic tock
FED pay vs Congressional pay
Patient Business Assistant VA Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:45 AM
Hey IT Spec VA:I think someone sold you some swampland, VA has not stopped paying overtime. Your managmt is just picking who they want to get it. Kiss some butt, you might get it. HR Assis/Forest: you hit the nail on the head! Sure you don't work for VA? Beach Bum: you are soooo right. Can we get a bill to make that happen? LOL. Scientist: give me a break, degree's don't mean knowledge & it's a sad yardstick. In our VA our former chief of staff, degree in phelbotomy & childcare. Our chief of Business and Accounting, degrees in geriatric nursing and social work. Our chief of mental health, degree in nursing. My supervisor, associates degree elder care, but my division handles net worth determinations and income eligibility. At least in my VA, who you know is how you get promoted, you don't have to know what you're doing. Just kiss up. I got passed over on a eligibility job, by a lower level phlebotomist because he had a degree. I found out later his degree was in culinary arts.
Federal wages vs Congressional
Patient Business Assistant VA Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:11 PM
Is your measure that of a degree, and who has one?
Here's a joke some of us love in my VA which I think addresses the crust of some of these arguments.......
What do you call a student that goes to all of his classes late or never, parties all night, stays hungover, and with a C- average, manages to graduate with a degree. Doctor, or in the of the U.S from 2000 to 2008...... Mr. President.
I've seen more people, who have the know how skipped over because they have no degree, and watched people with various degrees and letters after their name have to go to the "uneducated" employee to find out what to do. There's street smarts, common smarts, and book smarts. You need all 3, most people only have 2, and the system only relys on 1 when making their hiring decisions. So, higher bucks for a degree does not necessarily work in the real world, but the idea seems to run our country. No wonder.......(place any snide remark about congress or supvrs here)
ONLY A SMALL PERCENT
ANALYSIS USMC Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:14 AM
OKAY - WHO FELL OFF THE TURNIP TRUCK.
THe average salary for a federal GS employees range from 32K to 45K (YES there are high ranking federal personnel but the major part of federal employees DO NOT fall into that area).
Shame on you for attempting to make it seem like every federal employee is making a 100K or 200K
or more a year. I wish.
ALSO: CONGRESS (ALL) GETS A 50K REtirement Package with medical benefits after ONLY FIVE YEARS in office - I WANT THAT KIND OF DEAL.
CONGRESS ALSO GETS BONUS' FROM VENDORS AND POWER companies/MEDICAL GROUPS, etc.
GUESS WHAT - FEDERAL EMPLOYEES GET TO GO TO JAIL FOR THIS ACT BECAUSE IT IS ILEGAL - IT IS CALLED A ETHICS VOILATION.
Who fell off the turnip truck.
Re: ONLY A SMALL PERCENT
hr manager dod agency Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:56 AM
You probably need to actually read the article. "I randomly selected human resources management as a career field to search and found two people in the database making more than $200,000."
That doesn't sound like everyone is making over $200,000.
Immigration Officer USCIS Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:50 AM
As I see it the vast majority of Federal employees do more in a month than those idiots on the Hill do all damn year! Those overpaid morons in Congress don't deserve half of what they get. Besides, anyone with a grain of sense knows they are not in those offices for money. Why spend a couple of MILLION dollars trying to get a job that pays less than $200,000 a year and you only have it for two years! Worse yet are senators who spend tens of miilions of dollars for the same pay for six years. They sure aren't in it for money, well at least not the salaried money. There is plenty of money in kickbacks, and pushing contracts to friends and family (Diane Feinstein and her husband for example).
gs pay over congress pay
systems analyst ssa Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:50 AM
We do a much better job of working for the citizens of these United States then the self serving so called elected officals in congress.Case in point in takes many years of goverment employment to reach retirement status with a small amount of benefit.Congress voted them selfs a criminal retirement plan that covers them self and the spouses at a embezzement rate for a small amount of time in the U.S Goverment employment and to add they take more time off the J-O-B then all the GS vaction time combined.
Fed Income vs Congress
Supervisor DoD Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:15 AM
Feds making more than members of Congress? I guess NSPS is working ... must be the pay for performance that is holding Congressional salaries down!
Fed Income vs Congress
Operations Officer DOD Sat Sep 5, 2009 11:15 PM
It seems fair that some Feds earn more than members of Congress. Most Feds produce. Productivity is not a word I associate with Congress.
Pay
Supervisor DON Tue Sep 8, 2009 8:34 AM
I don't think it is unusual that some federal employees earn more than congressmen. Some feds are physicians and they are not going to work for less than they can make in private practice.
Pay and Educational Credentials
Analyst FAA Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:46 AM
I guess I dont have much grief about a physician making 180-200K a year, based on the number of years to attain that credential but what bugs me are the GED and High School educated GS 14's and 15's. I don't care how good you are, there should be minimum standards for those grade levels and in my opinion should be a Masters Degree at the least.
Hate to Harp
Fed Worker DoD Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:43 AM
My Girlfriend can make $234,000 in her vet practice, and the Feds keep offering her Gs-11 step 1. They don't seem to understand why there is a shortage of them.
Congress and the Senate
transportation specialist USAF Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:26 AM
Don't Congressmen and Senators get to draw a large portion of their salary as retirement after on one or terms in office?
I don't know of any "federal employee" getting to do that.
Don't they have "perks" that the tax payers pay for that no federal employee could ever have?
Aren't they elected to "serve" their country to make it better? If they aren't they need to leave and go back to their old jobs.
Just my 2 cents.
Federal Employees Total Income
Defense Contract Management Agency
Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:34 AM
Are you aware that the rank and file Federal Contract Management personnel that are in the War Theatre (Iraq & Afghanistan) are making over $200K/year. This would include a 35% pay differential, 35% hazard pay and 40-60 hours of overtime per pay period. Their pay is so high that GS 11 thru 13s can only go over for 5-7 months. They have to return when their annual pay hits the cap (CONUS + OCUNUS), wait six months and go back. They might not be carrying weapons but the war could not go on without them. They are the unsung heroes of all war efforts. "No Army has ever won a war without a successful supply train". Many of those supplies are purchased or managed by our civil servants within the War Theatre. All DoD supplies and munitions are purchased by civilians that get no credit for "fighting" the war. I'm fond of saying "we" won the war.
Re: Federal Employees Total Income
FAA
Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:16 AM
We have more than enough problems here at home.
"To him whom much has been given, much is required"
worked when we were a rich nation. Now we are paupers, and borrowing money on a credit card to give to charity not only makes no sense, it's downright stupid.
"Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?"
(best quote I ever heard)
then we won't ever need to worry about overseas federal employees making more than Congress.
Problem solved.
Re: Federal Employees Total Income
DOD
Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:41 AM
FAA
Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:16 AM
And we can rename our country Shangri-La or Utopia; Pollyanna will govern us; and we will all live happily ever after.
Re: Federal Employees Total Income
Fed Agency
Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:29 AM
With respect to salaries, I've worked for agencies under the GS schedule and those who have their own schedule. Don't let anyone fool you - under the Pay for Performance-type plans, you can receive a Fully Successful rating and get a raise as low as 1%. Gee, now who is getting the rest of that Pool of Funds. . . . Could it be that management is saving it for themselves?
Federal Earnings
USPS
Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:37 AM
Wait a moment.... Isn't there a new czar for private sector renumeration? How come there isn't a czar for setting the pay of Federal Managers, Department Heads and Political Appointees? Oh yeah. I forgot. The new administration is transparent. Yeah. That's it.
Re: Federal Earnings
NASA
Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:50 PM
People who live in glass houses should think twice before insinuating wrong-doing or problems in the current, HONORABLE for a CHANGE administration.
I confess, and am proud, to believe that President Obama has his heart in the right place, and deserves our respect and support, far, far more than "W".
Re: Federal Earnings
DOA
Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:37 AM
Re: Federal Earnings
IRS
Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:18 AM
Re: Federal Earnings
Navy
Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:35 AM
Re: Federal Earnings
Small Agency
Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:12 AM
So, how do I get a job at the SEC
DOD
Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:46 AM
I'm curious, then, why people aren't flocking to the SEC or other area where the pay scales are higher?
Re: So, how do I get a job at the SEC
DHHS
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:19 AM
Outside of this down economy, these employees are likely to commend salaries that are way over $200K in the private industry so they likely sacrificed an enormous sum of money for "lower" paid public service jobs WHILE the economy was booming in favor of federal job security. It would be extremely hypocritical to fault them for their $200K salary now when they gave up the huge salary of private industry years ago to join public service when the government was desperate for their talents/skills during the "good" years.
Re: So, how do I get a job at the SEC
Dept of Labor
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:23 AM
A few years ago, after the higher pay, all of the Employee/Labor Relations Staff that were over 50 were targeted and left within a 4 month period. Most of the staff that remained ended up filing and winning EEO complaints over the next couple years. Most of those complaints were settled for what the employees were asking, rather than have the SEC suffer the embarassment of public disclosure of how they were treating their employees.
If that is how they treat the people in Human Resources that are charged with defending the Agency against complaints, how do you think they treat the rest of the folks?
Re: So, how do I get a job at the SEC
VA
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:40 AM
Re: So, how do I get a job at the SEC
Retired DoD
Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:47 AM
And no, I am not saying the career workers are dishonest - not the case. It is all those Wall St types they bring in to work there who reek of the Money system.
Re: So, how do I get a job at the SEC
IRS
Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:29 PM
Members of Congress and Civilian Pay
DCMA
Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:56 AM
Unlike members of Congress, we civilian employees do not get special payments to run our offices, pay staff, and other cost item issues. We also do not get special consideration from lobbyists and other well healed people who intend on influecing our vote for the mutual benefit of them and the member. All members become rich even though they must maintain two households and other such claims. Too bad common government workers cannot pad their lifestyles as the members do. I would gladly trade my huge pay and benefits for the opportunity to act as royalty as a member and live the life that just seems to escape me and my fellow civilian workers. Congress is not underpaid in the slightest.
Federal Employees who make more than Members of Co
Defense Logistics Agency
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:00 AM
Don't forget about all of the federal employees and managers who routinely ride the "comp time" gravy train - especially those at the GS13 and GS14 level who are on alternate work schedules whereby they have one day off per week (or pay period) and rather than take their day off, the work it (either in the office or from home) ; often exceeding the normal number of hours; and earn comp time. Of course they never use the comp time so they are paid at the rate at which it was earned. We have manages who consistently get an additional 4-5 days pay each pay period. They bring home their laptops and get paid seven days a week. I'm amazed that no one ever picks up on he fact that managers "need" to be paid 50-80 hours per week when their subordinates are not required to work additional hours. . . .
I won't even begin to address the annual payouts in restored leave. They should be disciplined for abusing their positions and padding their pensions. It is disgraceful.
Re: Federal Employees who make more than Members of Co
DHHS
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:37 AM
I say, if you feel so strongly against it then a simply anonymous email to your local Congressman or Representative detailing everything you stated could get things on the way to be corrected pretty quickly (especially in this economy).
Re: Federal Employees who make more than Members of Co
VA
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:45 AM
All comp time has to be pre-authorize.
And if you don't keep track of your comp time and use it up within a certain period, you will loose it.
Salary Database
USPS
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:08 AM
Within days of your article about the database, access to the database was blocked by my agency.
Re: Salary Database
Treasury
Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:04 PM
Overall Wages
forest service
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:17 AM
This sounds like Reagan's "Welfare Cadillac" argument. One equals all. I work in the new centralized forest service HR building, and we are overworked and underpaid. Further, the forest service has been working with OPM to find a way to cut our wages even further. No more 7/9/11 career ladders, no more starting new employees with master's degrees any higher than the GS-07 (if you're fortunate enough to find that high a position), and more flexibility for managers in assigning work above and beyond one's position description. The result--morale is in the toilet. The proferred solution? Make working conditions so difficult for those in the professional series that they'll leave the agency--and replace them with GS-04s. Training is non-existent, as are performance awards, and career development options continue to shrink. This all comes as a result of George W's efforts to replace government workers with private contractors--who screw up left and right. What a future America has ahead.
Re: Overall Wages
DHHS
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:30 AM
Re: Overall Wages
USDA
Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:12 PM
Barely educated? Excuse me? I have a high school diploma, two years of college (2 semesters on Dean's List), 20 years of private sector employment experience, 20 years of public sector employment, have taken some formal courses, and am autodidactic (definition for you - self-teaching). I thought we were responding here to an article and comments, not trashing the rest of the Federal workforce, which is no better nor worse than any other large group of people.
As for a few isolated Feds making more than Congress, your "qualifications" point makes more sense there. When we apply for a job with the Fed, we must meet minimum qualifications in education and/or job experience. There are no minimum qualifications in education or experience for members of Congress.
Salaries
DOD
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:18 AM
That doesn't take into consideration those of us that are low levels, such as GS-06, making $51,000. The article sounds like we're all raking in the money, when we're not.
Re: Salaries
DOD
Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:22 PM
Re: Salaries
USCIS
Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:02 AM
Fed Employee Salaries
EPA
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:21 AM
Do you include Pres.,VP, cabinet members, congress, etc., as federal employees? They all get perks the regular employees do not, i.e., travel, franking privileges, health care, six figure retirements, Capital bldg. fitness center, restaurants, massages, handball,squash courts, and many other perks the average GS grunts are not allowed. This article is full of obfuscation and facts that jump around in order to confuse. This doesn't include campaign contributions Congress can keep if not spent. No wonder they all end up multi millionaires.
VA pay
VA
Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:33 AM
Of course some people make more the 200K. Up until two years ago, the VA could not hire a Radiologist, or cardiologist or lots of other high paying medical specialist because of that pay cap. They had high cost contracts. They still have trouble due to the difficulty of paying high salaries.
Federal employee who gwt more pay than Congress
Internal revenue Service
Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:10 PM
While I am appalled at some of these figures, you are not comparing incomes and I am not talking investments. The pay figures include awards given to federal employees which is about their only way of earning money. How much do Congressmen make giving speeches when they are not in session?
Maybe it would be fairer to compare earned income or salaries before awards
Re: Federal employee who gwt more pay than Congress
USCIS
Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:06 AM
OT
Corps of Engineers
Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:54 PM
There are certain federal employees who are not on any of the regular pay schedules. Most USBR and USACE power plant employees are paid the average of the union scale for the geographic area, it can often be double or triple what the WG rate is for the same job series This includes the double and triple time OT rates. Many employees often exceed $130K plus annually.
Re: OT
DOE
Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:57 PM
Re: OT
USCIS
Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:09 AM
Comparative salaries
INS
Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:25 PM
Why shouldn't federal employees earn more than Congressmen and Senators, who only "work" three days/week and have staffers who do their heavy lifting?
salary
BX
Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:38 PM
Money is not everything. Whatever we are given, we must make do of it. There are far more value in this life than money. People around Washington worship money at the expense of their souls. See what happened to Berlusconi. He has lots of money and spent it on an escort service. Is there happiness there? He's now got a confirmed space in hell with his name on it. Is it worth it? You decide.
congressional pay
Puget Sound Naval Shipyard
Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:01 AM
It's neat there are federal employees making more money than members of congress. Of course, federal employees do more than members of congress so they should get more pay. If members of congress got paid for production they would starve to death for lack thereof!
Congressional Pay
Retired DoD
Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:43 AM
Now if there was ever a group that needed pay for performance it would be our congressmen and senators. In fact, they perform so poorly they would have to pay us for their antics.
I, for one, do not feel sorry for them one bit.
Making More Than a Member of Congress
DoD
Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:20 AM
While the cap on basic GS pay is $153,200, and the cap on adjusted NSPS pay is $160,860, with overtime and other premium pay, bonuses, awards, overseas allowances, etc. etc., the aggregate limitation on pay is generally that of Executive Level I, or $196,700. For employees working in overseas contingency operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, and certain other areas in Southwest Asia, the increased annual premium pay cap is equal to that of the Vice President's salary, or $227,300. I know of many employees currently serving in SWA whose pay, with overtime, approaches this level.
Not True.
DOT
Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:47 PM
Federal Government employee's doesn't make more money then Memember of Congress. I have my Assoicate Degree, and Bachelor and three (3) more classes earning Master Degree and I am only make $50 something thousand dollars a year help desk for the Federal Government. You found African American employee's making less money on federal job and employee's without degree's and contractor's make more as well. I think it is so sad that education means nothing why go to school to better yourself.
Re: Not True.
HHS
Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:01 PM
Re: Not True.
ICE
Mon Aug 3, 2009 1:38 PM
I sincerely hope that this is a joke.
Oh, man, we are going down fast...
Don't Kill the Golden Goose
Retired
Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:48 PM
Many high level fed employees work their butts off and put in alot of time. So those who have a gripe don't get it. To the Beach Bum, those on Wall St should not be demonized; we need talented folks in the SEC and Fed Reserve to help get us out of this mess. The comments above range from the idiotic to value added. But please, don't destroy the system. I have worked under both GS and Pay for Performance. Pay for Performance is manipulated by managers and those doing more and doing it well are not always compensated. Let's see what Mr Berry at OPM has to offer. Hope he acknowledges that we need to attract and retain talented folks for the challenges ahead.
Obama
DHS
Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:00 PM
Obama never said bring our troops home! I was closely listening (and supporting at the time) him throughout the election. He was very, very careful to never say, "bring our troops home." He always said, get out of Iraq. No-one ever listens anymore. I got it, didn't you?Too staring at the the pin stripes.
Re: Obama
DOL
Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:06 PM
FED pay vs Congressional pay
VA
Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:45 AM
Hey IT Spec VA:I think someone sold you some swampland, VA has not stopped paying overtime. Your managmt is just picking who they want to get it. Kiss some butt, you might get it. HR Assis/Forest: you hit the nail on the head! Sure you don't work for VA? Beach Bum: you are soooo right. Can we get a bill to make that happen? LOL. Scientist: give me a break, degree's don't mean knowledge & it's a sad yardstick. In our VA our former chief of staff, degree in phelbotomy & childcare. Our chief of Business and Accounting, degrees in geriatric nursing and social work. Our chief of mental health, degree in nursing. My supervisor, associates degree elder care, but my division handles net worth determinations and income eligibility. At least in my VA, who you know is how you get promoted, you don't have to know what you're doing. Just kiss up. I got passed over on a eligibility job, by a lower level phlebotomist because he had a degree. I found out later his degree was in culinary arts.
Federal wages vs Congressional
VA
Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:11 PM
Is your measure that of a degree, and who has one?
Here's a joke some of us love in my VA which I think addresses the crust of some of these arguments.......
What do you call a student that goes to all of his classes late or never, parties all night, stays hungover, and with a C- average, manages to graduate with a degree. Doctor, or in the of the U.S from 2000 to 2008...... Mr. President.
I've seen more people, who have the know how skipped over because they have no degree, and watched people with various degrees and letters after their name have to go to the "uneducated" employee to find out what to do. There's street smarts, common smarts, and book smarts. You need all 3, most people only have 2, and the system only relys on 1 when making their hiring decisions. So, higher bucks for a degree does not necessarily work in the real world, but the idea seems to run our country. No wonder.......(place any snide remark about congress or supvrs here)
ONLY A SMALL PERCENT
USMC
Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:14 AM
OKAY - WHO FELL OFF THE TURNIP TRUCK.
THe average salary for a federal GS employees range from 32K to 45K (YES there are high ranking federal personnel but the major part of federal employees DO NOT fall into that area).
Shame on you for attempting to make it seem like every federal employee is making a 100K or 200K
or more a year. I wish.
ALSO: CONGRESS (ALL) GETS A 50K REtirement Package with medical benefits after ONLY FIVE YEARS in office - I WANT THAT KIND OF DEAL.
CONGRESS ALSO GETS BONUS' FROM VENDORS AND POWER companies/MEDICAL GROUPS, etc.
GUESS WHAT - FEDERAL EMPLOYEES GET TO GO TO JAIL FOR THIS ACT BECAUSE IT IS ILEGAL - IT IS CALLED A ETHICS VOILATION.
Who fell off the turnip truck.
Re: ONLY A SMALL PERCENT
dod agency
Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:56 AM
That doesn't sound like everyone is making over $200,000.
Or to paraphrase your comment, "shame on you."
incorrect weblink
DOD, US Navy
Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:43 AM
The link for the database is incorrect. it should read http://php.app.com/fed_employees/search.php
I would hope so!
USCIS
Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:50 AM
As I see it the vast majority of Federal employees do more in a month than those idiots on the Hill do all damn year! Those overpaid morons in Congress don't deserve half of what they get. Besides, anyone with a grain of sense knows they are not in those offices for money. Why spend a couple of MILLION dollars trying to get a job that pays less than $200,000 a year and you only have it for two years! Worse yet are senators who spend tens of miilions of dollars for the same pay for six years. They sure aren't in it for money, well at least not the salaried money. There is plenty of money in kickbacks, and pushing contracts to friends and family (Diane Feinstein and her husband for example).
gs pay over congress pay
ssa
Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:50 AM
We do a much better job of working for the citizens of these United States then the self serving so called elected officals in congress.Case in point in takes many years of goverment employment to reach retirement status with a small amount of benefit.Congress voted them selfs a criminal retirement plan that covers them self and the spouses at a embezzement rate for a small amount of time in the U.S Goverment employment and to add they take more time off the J-O-B then all the GS vaction time combined.
Fed Income vs Congress
DoD
Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:15 AM
Feds making more than members of Congress? I guess NSPS is working ... must be the pay for performance that is holding Congressional salaries down!
Fed Income vs Congress
DOD
Sat Sep 5, 2009 11:15 PM
It seems fair that some Feds earn more than members of Congress. Most Feds produce. Productivity is not a word I associate with Congress.
Pay
DON
Tue Sep 8, 2009 8:34 AM
I don't think it is unusual that some federal employees earn more than congressmen. Some feds are physicians and they are not going to work for less than they can make in private practice.
Pay and Educational Credentials
FAA
Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:46 AM
I guess I dont have much grief about a physician making 180-200K a year, based on the number of years to attain that credential but what bugs me are the GED and High School educated GS 14's and 15's. I don't care how good you are, there should be minimum standards for those grade levels and in my opinion should be a Masters Degree at the least.
Hate to Harp
DoD
Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:43 AM
My Girlfriend can make $234,000 in her vet practice, and the Feds keep offering her Gs-11 step 1. They don't seem to understand why there is a shortage of them.
Congress and the Senate
USAF
Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:26 AM
Don't Congressmen and Senators get to draw a large portion of their salary as retirement after on one or terms in office?
I don't know of any "federal employee" getting to do that.
Don't they have "perks" that the tax payers pay for that no federal employee could ever have?
Aren't they elected to "serve" their country to make it better? If they aren't they need to leave and go back to their old jobs.
Just my 2 cents.