Having worked for GM for 11 years, and functioning as a union steward, I certainly agree with some of your comments. I took a recent buy-out after my plant closed in 2005. I only see things getting worse, before and "if" they get better.
I can tell you that during my time spent, Management never seemed very concerned with the distant future, as their main concern always seemed to be quarterly numbers, and remaining, "The World's Largest Car Manufacturer" . They would basically give the union everything it wanted in order to prevent a strike...BECAUSE....a strike would disrupt output and sales, and they couldn't let Toyota become #1.
The union obviously didn't take the time to think about how their demands were going to affect the future of the workforce. They seemed interested in taking care of "higher" seniority employees, and never considered how it would come to affect their family members (hired in by any means....can anyone say nepotism?).
NAFTA, poor decisions- RIP
Re: So many factors.....
Special Agent various Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:46 AM
Washington rarely displays common sense, but if you favor companies run jointly by unions and government you are senseless. The government does only a few things right - running a for profit business is not among them. Most unions are corrupt and incompetent. Expecting the government and unions jointly to run a business sucessfully is asinine.
Re: So many factors.....
worker Fed Wed Jul 1, 2009 9:41 AM
Sounds like special agent various is a radical rightist. Government does things poorly? Unions are corrupt. Does he remember that management drove GM into bankruptcy by making vehicles with poor reliability? Does he forget about the banks, run by management people, that were bankrupt without government aid. And then these banks further enrich the wealthy management people. They do not even want the owners (shareholders) to have a say over bonuses and salaries). These are the same banks that forced the lending employees to do no doc loans that went bad. Of course managers made money on these loans while the shareholoders lose when things go bad. Let us not forget the greedy credit card companies that charge usury interest rates after sucking in their victims with teaser rates. Do not forget their fees either.
I am not saying unions are angels. The auto workers pay is much to high. But so is management pay. They should be reduced to the Japanese level.
Re: So many factors.....
Retired IRS Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:40 PM
Special Agent is a realist. Historically, unions have served a valid purpose, but their need and effectiveness ended years ago. Federal unions especially are unnecessary and wasteful. It is time to eliminate federal unions, Failing that, public funding and support should end.
Re: So many factors.....
worker Fed Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:28 AM
To retired IRS
Why do you say that Federal unions are unnecessary and wasteful? They are necessary to reign in the excesses of management such as violations of the manual when it suits them, assigning inventory and expecting workers to work these cases on time when it is impossible to do a quality job. They lobby for things such as public transit subsidies, pay, awards, etc.
If the workers did not want unions, they would not pay dues.
Re: So many factors.....
Rev Officer IRS Sun Jul 5, 2009 1:00 PM
People pay dues for many reasons. Necessity is rarely among them. Stupidity often is. NTEU (like other federal unions) is an awful waste of money and time. Not only is dues money squandered, so is tax money. Wake up to reality. Federal employees do not "need" unions to protect them. All they need is common sense and a decent work ethic. Unions mostly represent and "defend" those who should be fired.
Re: So many factors.....
worker Fed Tue Jul 7, 2009 8:18 AM
To Rev Officer IRS
I will not say the NTEU does quality work. However, it is better than nothing.
What about the quality worker who gets an egotistical, incompetent manager? He can't help but get on the wrong side of this manager. This can and does cause major problems for the worker as the territory chiefs generally support the manager whether he is right or wrong.
Therefore, union representation is needed for the good workers also.
Re: So many factors.....
Manager OPA Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:45 AM
If you do not like the way GM is being run...don't by their products!!!...that is the only way they will get the msg!
mgmt and union have different major interests
Sick of the Bull Retired Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:47 AM
fact: unions and management always have different interests--a few in common. They will want to manage differently. This manufacturer is doomed to failure and the taxpayers are out of billions. This Pres is off the mark on this one and this will be a nagative legacy of his administration.
Greedy Unions
PM DON Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:49 AM
Obama is giving the unions everything they want, payback from the election. This cannot be anymore obvious, especially in light of his recent announcement that the unions would be exempt from taxed health care benefits. The unions are way overpaid and that severely distorts local labor markets. I'll never buy a GM or Chysler product again. Why is it that foreign car manufactures thrive in the US but our Big 3 stuggle mightily? Don't you think it has something to do with the greedy unions?
Re: Greedy Unions
worker Fed Wed Jul 1, 2009 9:46 AM
To PM Don
Yes it does have to do with the greedy unions. However, they are taking after management. If you looked up the pay of the executives, including stock options, you will find that they made multi millions of dollars. The workers did not come close to that. Why should the workers sacrifice when the executive were like pigs at a trough.
If they imitated the Japanese scale of pay, all would have been better off.
Re: Greedy Unions
IT Specialist VA Wed Jul 1, 2009 10:58 AM
To answer your question about why foreign care thrive.
Maybe better quality and engineering, durability vs. Fix Or Repair Daily? Who would want to constantly deal with car problem? After having my Chrysler for years, I will not buy another one because they are just lemon.
Re: Greedy Unions
HR ER/LR Specialist HHS Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:18 AM
It's not only greedy unions....it's dumb management practices, as most assembly line managers are JUST as barbaric as many claim unions to be.
Free Trade, Poor Products, and not having employees contribute towards benefits are some of the many factors.
Re: Greedy Unions
worker Fed Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:32 AM
To PM Don
Forgot to answer another question-why US car manufaturers are having problems.
I owned an American car. It became a mess after a relatively short period of time. I next bought a Japanese car. I lasted about twice as long.
Enough said.
Amtrak
Quality Assurance Specialist DCMA Wed Jul 1, 2009 9:00 AM
GM will limp along with Governmental assistence until someone with enough nads comes along and ends its pain. Should never have been bailed out. The govt can't adequately roll out a new internal program, how are they going to roll out cars? Square peg+round hole=bigger hammer syle. The unions won't care as long as they get their dues and government won't care as long as they produce green cars nobody wants. Yep, GM will have a long life on the taxpayers dime.
No UAW owned vehicle for me
No UAW owned vehicle for me various Wed Jul 1, 2009 9:22 AM
I will never purchase a UAW assembled, UAW owned, or UAW endorsed product. Their wages were ridiculous and their benefits were outrageous, starting with their no pay & no copy health benefits and jobs bank. Why would employees wind up ownding about 20 percent of the company...a company that they destroyed.
Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me
Retired DHS DHS Wed Jul 1, 2009 10:19 AM
Good attitude. Buy foreign and support the foreign corporations.
Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me
HR ER/LR Specialist HHS Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:24 AM
Come on, you can't be serious to believe unions are the only ones at fault.
Management is just as responsible....and $55k a year + benefits is a fraction of the wages being paid to bankers and employees of these big investment firms who've been robbing you blind.
Don't buy if you don't like a product, but don't avoid making a purchase because it's UAW made.,,,remember, there ARE some great individuals who work for these companies, who don't necessarily agree with everything the union chooses to do.
Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me
Observer A BIG One Wed Jul 1, 2009 2:10 PM
A lot of todays American workers earn $6, $10, or maybe $15 per hour. Their benefits are often meager. Why should they stretch their budegts to buy cars made by American UAW workers making many multiples more money per hour than them? Also with benefits, in their UAW contract, that are dreamy, expensive, and beyond the reach of these average American workers of today. Foreign auto makers will keep getting more business!! I am a union member and I do not cry for the UAW!!!
Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me
Supervisor DOA Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:27 PM
"Various" makes an interesting point. Maybe not politically correct but it would be foolish not to consider it.
In a former life I worked for a company that dealt in suspension, brake and tire service for several years. GM and Ford cars needed extra parts and extra work far more than any others. The workmanship and materials on GM and Ford cars were substandard compared with the rest.
This was not an isolated instance, it was over several years observing thousands of cars. The trend was undeniable and pointed to the level of quality in the product.
Partnership
Clinical Application Coordinator/Vice President AFGE Local 1273 VHA Wed Jul 1, 2009 9:29 AM
Disclaimer - I am writing on my own behalf and not as a spokesperson for the unions:
The slant of most articles about unions usually leans towards the belief that the union wants what's good for only the employee. What we fight for is the due process for all employees that is spoken to in our contract with the intent being a productive, happy, competent, and fairly and equitably treated workforce. At the VA, the unions are also fighting for the rights of our veterans - the right to excellent treatment by appropriately paid and well-trained staff, the right to health-care access not based on a budget that is heavily weighed down by management bonuses or contracted out to friends and family of upper management, and the right to claims that are processed appropriately and in a timely manner by employees who are not pushed to their limits to handle their claim load.
We want the organization to be successful and exemplary - we are not the enemy.
Re: Partnership
Supervisor DLA Wed Jul 1, 2009 12:26 PM
Dear Vice President AFGE Local 1273 VHA,
Nice Union propaganda! You make supervision look like a bunch of vampires! Oh, and you protect workers alright. Even the poor performing ones that don't want to put in a hard days work. Why is this? Because, you don't want to lose members that contribute money to AFGE. AFGE is constantly fighting to lower production standards in all federal agenices. AFGE only cares about one thing, themselves, and attaining more power. I have yet to meet an AFGE steward who could honestly tell me they care about the mission. 95% of all grievances filed, are from poor performing employees who think their supervisor is doing them some injustice. When in fact, they are lazy, and don't want to do anything. There are enough federal and state laws in place to protect workers rights. Bottom line, your only fans are politicians and people looking for a free lunch on the taxpayers dime.
Re: Partnership
Physician VA Wed Jul 1, 2009 1:48 PM
Union VP - Federal unions are not always the enemy, but they are not part of the solution either. They place a fiscal drain on everyone (especially taxpayers) and contribute little in return. They are unnecessary and far too costly. Advocates of federal unions are often misinformed zealots with personal issues. I do not need a union to "protect" my rights. It is only the poor performers who think they do.
Re: Partnership
PM DON Wed Jul 1, 2009 1:55 PM
Are you kidding me? The Unions are the most unproductive organization in the US.
Re: Partnership
Retired Fed turned Consultant former Army LR Chief Wed Jul 1, 2009 3:33 PM
Bravo. During my 31 year career as an LR I ran into union bums and union leaders. Naturally I enjoyed dealing with those who had views similar to yours and I tried not being a management pig.
I also have to admit the same applies to supervisors - lots of good ones and lots of them should never have been given any responsibility over others. As one local union president said on the stage with a theater full of supervisors: "Thank you thank. Give on doing what you're doing. You're my best recruiter" - or something like that.
What I learned over the years is that every labor relationship is different. Each one has it's own history. There are no magic solutions - especially those from high above. The parties have to decide on their own that they want to get along better. They can do that now - always could.
Re: Partnership
Retired Exec Treasury Wed Jul 1, 2009 5:02 PM
What a joke. Anyone who believes unions and the government can effectively jointly run anything is misguided. Unions border on incompetence, and the government is not far ahead. We will pay dearly for this experiment.
Re: Partnership
Fed Peasant DOD Wed Jul 1, 2009 10:24 PM
Retired Exec Treasury:
You overlooked the overhyped private sector executives. They are making us build more prisons for them & their do nothing boards of directors. I observed over 5 years ago, that the scandals were becoming just a blur!! There was so many & they keep getting worse!! That's one big reason that most of my serious money is invested overseas. It's saver & more prudent. Wall Street & the US corporate elite have trashed this country!! Shareholder rights mean nothing!! While you slam federal managers & union people, has the golden private sector gods slipped your memory??
Re: Partnership
worker Fed Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:43 AM
To Supervisor DLA,
You comment that the unions represent the poor performing workers. If that is the case, management will have the documentation to discipline and fire them. The union will not be able to prevent this. Actually, some unknown percentage is these so called ppoor performers are working for an incompetent egotistical manager who can't do his job or wants to look good on the backs of his employees. Unions are needed to defend the worker against this type of manager. They are not rare either.
I am not saying that all managers are bad. Some are.
The rest of your comments appear to be an emotional outburst. Did you lose a case against someone you do not like?
Re: Partnership
Retired DHS DHS Thu Jul 2, 2009 11:39 AM
DLA supervisor:
If there are so many poor performing employees, guess what the problem is? You and your fellow managers. You folks are too lazy to do your jobs. Firing somebody for performance is the easiest way to get rid of them. The level of proof is lower than what is needed when firing for discipline. Quit whining and just do your job. Quit bashing the Union representatives until you've cleaned your own house.
Re: Partnership
Citizen USA Fri Jul 3, 2009 9:55 AM
"If there are so many poor performing employees, guess what the problem is? You and your fellow managers. "
blah, blah, blah. Another regurgitation of employees are all poor performers because of bad management, or that management sucks because they have to supervise a hoard of lazy do nothing employees.
This tired line of whining gets really old. Give it a rest.
new paradigm
BMEU USPS Wed Jul 1, 2009 10:51 AM
Thoughtful article: I was beyond pleasantly surprised to get thru the entire piecee without seeing the word SOCIALISM (being Fedsmith & all). It's a curious concept, true, but UAW gets so much blame for the state that GM has come to, that they might as well get some real authority.
I'm sure this isn't what Mitt Romney had in mind when he prayed for Detroit's bankruptcy...
Ownership
IT Specialist VA Wed Jul 1, 2009 10:53 AM
Maybe what GM need is employee ownership.
This form of management work with many organization where management and employee are stake holder.
Stock ownership are reserved for those who work for the organization, not the general public, which entice every level of the organization to work for a better future.
Now, in similar fashion, only US citizen are legally hire to be federal employee. As federal employee, we are the stake holder of our organization/country. One might wondered why there are so many wall/territory are being defensed?
GM & Chrysler Now a Family Business
Fed Peasant DOD Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:40 AM
Ever notice on the TV reports, about how they often show 2, 3, or even 4 generations of GM workers in their news report about the car industry? Well there's a reason for that. I used to like in "GM Country". I gradually learned that a large portion of blue collar UAW jobs that came open were "reserved" for the family members, of current UAW members. Talk about inbreeding and an expensive labor contract. Yes, that's right!! A Joe, or Jane, off the street, & not kin to a UAW worker, would face this challenge (injustice) getting hired.
PREDICTION....in 2-3 years, GM & Chrysler will be building all kinds of small & "green" vehicles. Profit margins are tiny, or nonexistant on those products. They will have weak sales & will lose money. The foreign producers will create ever more big vehicles that Americans love, & eat their lunch. Obama, & his cronies in Congress, will create chaos for the mangement, with their tinkering & interference for their home districts.
Re: GM & Chrysler Now a Family Business
Analsyt DOD Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:54 AM
Fed Peasant DOD, the inbreeding doesn’t stop there, it is next to impossible to get a job with the AF without being related to someone, somehow.
partnership
vsr va Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:44 AM
No the Unions are not the enemy, but with all due respect, sometimes in the effort to defend all employees, the union ends up preventing management from getting rid of bad employees. Employees who destroy the moral of the majority and seriously handicap the VA in it's mission to serve vets.
Never Buy UAW
Civil Engineer US Army Corps of Engineers Wed Jul 1, 2009 12:42 PM
In the past 30 years since I owned my 1st and subsequent cars, I never bought American nor a UAW assembled vehicle, period. Their wages and demands just increases cost but lowers quality and reliability. I've always owned Hondas and Toyotas put together by hard working NON-UNION/UAW workers who think of doing a good job rather than waste time crying about low union pay or filing grievences on a daily basis.
Re: Never Buy UAW
worker Fed Thu Jul 2, 2009 10:09 AM
Although I will not buy American, at least now, Civil engineer is way wrong. He blames UAW for the lack of quality. The UAW does not engineer or design the cars. They just work on the assembly line. Engineers etc. design cars with managements money limitations. Management caused the quality issue that you referred to.
Re: Never Buy UAW
Analyst DoD Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:06 PM
worker, you're telling us that the UAW has nothing to do with quality, they just work on the assembly line..
In other words, the people who put the product together have nothing to do with the workmanship of the product?? Do you have any idea how silly that sounds?
Re: Never Buy UAW
worker Fed Tue Jul 7, 2009 8:27 AM
To analyst DOD
Your comments are silly. Sure, the workers have to do with quality when they put together the cars. But if they put cars together based on faulty design and engineering, then the product is bad no matter what the assembly line worker does.
It starts with the design and engineering. It continues with the assembly line worker being allowed to stop the assembly line if something is wrong. Saturn had that and the quality was good. Can workers at Saturn still do that?
Your comments really distorted what I said.
Re: Never Buy UAW
Analyst DoD Tue Jul 7, 2009 9:28 PM
uhh.. worker - To quote you directly -
"Management caused the quality issue that you referred to."
You can spin it however you want but you DID put all the blame on management. You put zero responsibility on the people who put the product together. That's absurd when judging the workmanship of that product yet that's exactly what you did.
Re: Never Buy UAW
worker Fed Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:58 AM
To Analyst DOD
Yes, you did quote me. However, you did not acknowledge that it starts with management getting the proper people to design the cars and put an assembly line together that is needed to put together good cars. Again, you have distorted the facts and my statements to suit your needs. Quoting out of context is a distortion of the facts. Read the entire contents and not just the items that suit your needs.
Management must do its job so that labor can do its job. Management failed to do so, while taking exorbitant compensation. Hope this answers your questions.
Re: Never Buy UAW
Analyst DoD Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:49 PM
worker - wrong again. You continue to put blame on management exclusively. Show me even once where you have acknowleged that the people who put the product together share some of the blame.
You can't because you haven't.
Government Motors
CBP Officer CBP Wed Jul 1, 2009 2:14 PM
Personally, I'll never by another GM or Chrysler product!
Mission First - People Always
Retired Fed turned Consultant former Army LR Chief Wed Jul 1, 2009 3:25 PM
Hey Dave. I have an idea for a new executive order. The title will be: "Mission First; People Always" If only it was that simple.
Good article. Very thoughtful.
Union Respect
Program Analyst Department of the Navy Wed Jul 1, 2009 3:59 PM
I think the unions will take as much as they can get. After the past 8 years of getting no respect and almost at the verge of extinction, looking out for the best interest of the federal workforce, having a fair say on many of these issues will defenitely help to get back on track. In having a decent and properous work place I think everyone will benift from.
Ownership
HR Navy Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:12 AM
I find it interesting to note that a number of comments from this post and other articles concerning the union's role in GM's failure actually sheds light and a much needed reality check on the issue of so-called partnership in the Federal govt. Clearly, unions do not want to be seen a negative light when a company fails, but want a very loud voice in how the company is run. That's what accountability is all about. So, unions, be careful. Sometimes you get what you ask for.
Re: Ownership
worker Fed Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:02 AM
Partnerships are to allow the unions to talk to management about issues they have observed. They are not to co manage the agency. Management can decide not to listen. They can have a bucket load of grievances and waste time like that. Or they can resolve some of the issues and reduce the number of grievances that could be cleared up by discussions.
Ownership
Quality Assurance Specialist DCMA Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:13 AM
While the management of GM/Chrysler are as guilty as the Union in running these car companies into the ground, we the consumer are also at fault. Had we not purchased due to brand loyalty or had we demanded greater quality for our buck who knows where they'd be at now. All I know is after owning a Toyota in the sixties, I never went back because of their lack of quality. I then moved onto a plymouth Scamp and to this day regret selling it off. Having owned 3 GM products in the last 11 years, 2 of which failed at less the 50,000 miles due to transmission issues, this merger/buyout/abortion cannot do anything but damage a bad brand further. I believe that the average consumer will move onto other brands due to this wholesale slaughter of the free market.
POGO SEZ
LR DON Thu Jul 2, 2009 6:07 PM
Want to know how to tell we are REALLY in trouble with our US car makers?
Go check out the worker bee parking lots at any GM plant. Take note o fhow many of the vehicles are made by GM and how many are imports? I got a dollar that it will be at least 3-to1 in favor of the imports.
As the cute lil possum once said: "We have met the enemy and he is us!"
Beating dead horses
Manager NOT DOT Fri Jul 3, 2009 9:09 AM
Let's just save everyone alot of time reading a useless and slanted article and useless comments. We have people in this country who hate Unions and people who understand the need for Unions. Get over it and move on to something else.
So many factors.....
HHS
Wed Jul 1, 2009 7:35 AM
Having worked for GM for 11 years, and functioning as a union steward, I certainly agree with some of your comments. I took a recent buy-out after my plant closed in 2005. I only see things getting worse, before and "if" they get better.
I can tell you that during my time spent, Management never seemed very concerned with the distant future, as their main concern always seemed to be quarterly numbers, and remaining, "The World's Largest Car Manufacturer" . They would basically give the union everything it wanted in order to prevent a strike...BECAUSE....a strike would disrupt output and sales, and they couldn't let Toyota become #1.
The union obviously didn't take the time to think about how their demands were going to affect the future of the workforce. They seemed interested in taking care of "higher" seniority employees, and never considered how it would come to affect their family members (hired in by any means....can anyone say nepotism?).
NAFTA, poor decisions- RIP
Re: So many factors.....
various
Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:46 AM
Re: So many factors.....
Fed
Wed Jul 1, 2009 9:41 AM
I am not saying unions are angels. The auto workers pay is much to high. But so is management pay. They should be reduced to the Japanese level.
Re: So many factors.....
IRS
Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:40 PM
Re: So many factors.....
Fed
Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:28 AM
Why do you say that Federal unions are unnecessary and wasteful? They are necessary to reign in the excesses of management such as violations of the manual when it suits them, assigning inventory and expecting workers to work these cases on time when it is impossible to do a quality job. They lobby for things such as public transit subsidies, pay, awards, etc.
If the workers did not want unions, they would not pay dues.
Re: So many factors.....
IRS
Sun Jul 5, 2009 1:00 PM
Re: So many factors.....
Fed
Tue Jul 7, 2009 8:18 AM
I will not say the NTEU does quality work. However, it is better than nothing.
What about the quality worker who gets an egotistical, incompetent manager? He can't help but get on the wrong side of this manager. This can and does cause major problems for the worker as the territory chiefs generally support the manager whether he is right or wrong.
Therefore, union representation is needed for the good workers also.
Re: So many factors.....
OPA
Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:45 AM
mgmt and union have different major interests
Retired
Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:47 AM
fact: unions and management always have different interests--a few in common. They will want to manage differently. This manufacturer is doomed to failure and the taxpayers are out of billions. This Pres is off the mark on this one and this will be a nagative legacy of his administration.
Greedy Unions
DON
Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:49 AM
Obama is giving the unions everything they want, payback from the election. This cannot be anymore obvious, especially in light of his recent announcement that the unions would be exempt from taxed health care benefits. The unions are way overpaid and that severely distorts local labor markets. I'll never buy a GM or Chysler product again. Why is it that foreign car manufactures thrive in the US but our Big 3 stuggle mightily? Don't you think it has something to do with the greedy unions?
Re: Greedy Unions
Fed
Wed Jul 1, 2009 9:46 AM
Yes it does have to do with the greedy unions. However, they are taking after management. If you looked up the pay of the executives, including stock options, you will find that they made multi millions of dollars. The workers did not come close to that. Why should the workers sacrifice when the executive were like pigs at a trough.
If they imitated the Japanese scale of pay, all would have been better off.
Re: Greedy Unions
VA
Wed Jul 1, 2009 10:58 AM
Maybe better quality and engineering, durability vs. Fix Or Repair Daily? Who would want to constantly deal with car problem? After having my Chrysler for years, I will not buy another one because they are just lemon.
Re: Greedy Unions
HHS
Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:18 AM
Free Trade, Poor Products, and not having employees contribute towards benefits are some of the many factors.
Re: Greedy Unions
Fed
Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:32 AM
Forgot to answer another question-why US car manufaturers are having problems.
I owned an American car. It became a mess after a relatively short period of time. I next bought a Japanese car. I lasted about twice as long.
Enough said.
Amtrak
DCMA
Wed Jul 1, 2009 9:00 AM
GM will limp along with Governmental assistence until someone with enough nads comes along and ends its pain. Should never have been bailed out. The govt can't adequately roll out a new internal program, how are they going to roll out cars? Square peg+round hole=bigger hammer syle. The unions won't care as long as they get their dues and government won't care as long as they produce green cars nobody wants. Yep, GM will have a long life on the taxpayers dime.
No UAW owned vehicle for me
various
Wed Jul 1, 2009 9:22 AM
I will never purchase a UAW assembled, UAW owned, or UAW endorsed product. Their wages were ridiculous and their benefits were outrageous, starting with their no pay & no copy health benefits and jobs bank. Why would employees wind up ownding about 20 percent of the company...a company that they destroyed.
Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me
DHS
Wed Jul 1, 2009 10:19 AM
Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me
HHS
Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:24 AM
Management is just as responsible....and $55k a year + benefits is a fraction of the wages being paid to bankers and employees of these big investment firms who've been robbing you blind.
Don't buy if you don't like a product, but don't avoid making a purchase because it's UAW made.,,,remember, there ARE some great individuals who work for these companies, who don't necessarily agree with everything the union chooses to do.
Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me
A BIG One
Wed Jul 1, 2009 2:10 PM
Re: No UAW owned vehicle for me
DOA
Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:27 PM
In a former life I worked for a company that dealt in suspension, brake and tire service for several years. GM and Ford cars needed extra parts and extra work far more than any others. The workmanship and materials on GM and Ford cars were substandard compared with the rest.
This was not an isolated instance, it was over several years observing thousands of cars. The trend was undeniable and pointed to the level of quality in the product.
Partnership
VHA
Wed Jul 1, 2009 9:29 AM
Disclaimer - I am writing on my own behalf and not as a spokesperson for the unions:
The slant of most articles about unions usually leans towards the belief that the union wants what's good for only the employee. What we fight for is the due process for all employees that is spoken to in our contract with the intent being a productive, happy, competent, and fairly and equitably treated workforce. At the VA, the unions are also fighting for the rights of our veterans - the right to excellent treatment by appropriately paid and well-trained staff, the right to health-care access not based on a budget that is heavily weighed down by management bonuses or contracted out to friends and family of upper management, and the right to claims that are processed appropriately and in a timely manner by employees who are not pushed to their limits to handle their claim load.
We want the organization to be successful and exemplary - we are not the enemy.
Re: Partnership
DLA
Wed Jul 1, 2009 12:26 PM
Nice Union propaganda! You make supervision look like a bunch of vampires! Oh, and you protect workers alright. Even the poor performing ones that don't want to put in a hard days work. Why is this? Because, you don't want to lose members that contribute money to AFGE. AFGE is constantly fighting to lower production standards in all federal agenices. AFGE only cares about one thing, themselves, and attaining more power. I have yet to meet an AFGE steward who could honestly tell me they care about the mission. 95% of all grievances filed, are from poor performing employees who think their supervisor is doing them some injustice. When in fact, they are lazy, and don't want to do anything. There are enough federal and state laws in place to protect workers rights. Bottom line, your only fans are politicians and people looking for a free lunch on the taxpayers dime.
Re: Partnership
VA
Wed Jul 1, 2009 1:48 PM
Re: Partnership
DON
Wed Jul 1, 2009 1:55 PM
Re: Partnership
former Army LR Chief
Wed Jul 1, 2009 3:33 PM
I also have to admit the same applies to supervisors - lots of good ones and lots of them should never have been given any responsibility over others. As one local union president said on the stage with a theater full of supervisors: "Thank you thank. Give on doing what you're doing. You're my best recruiter" - or something like that.
What I learned over the years is that every labor relationship is different. Each one has it's own history. There are no magic solutions - especially those from high above. The parties have to decide on their own that they want to get along better. They can do that now - always could.
Re: Partnership
Treasury
Wed Jul 1, 2009 5:02 PM
Re: Partnership
DOD
Wed Jul 1, 2009 10:24 PM
You overlooked the overhyped private sector executives. They are making us build more prisons for them & their do nothing boards of directors. I observed over 5 years ago, that the scandals were becoming just a blur!! There was so many & they keep getting worse!! That's one big reason that most of my serious money is invested overseas. It's saver & more prudent. Wall Street & the US corporate elite have trashed this country!! Shareholder rights mean nothing!! While you slam federal managers & union people, has the golden private sector gods slipped your memory??
Re: Partnership
Fed
Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:43 AM
You comment that the unions represent the poor performing workers. If that is the case, management will have the documentation to discipline and fire them. The union will not be able to prevent this. Actually, some unknown percentage is these so called ppoor performers are working for an incompetent egotistical manager who can't do his job or wants to look good on the backs of his employees. Unions are needed to defend the worker against this type of manager. They are not rare either.
I am not saying that all managers are bad. Some are.
The rest of your comments appear to be an emotional outburst. Did you lose a case against someone you do not like?
Re: Partnership
DHS
Thu Jul 2, 2009 11:39 AM
If there are so many poor performing employees, guess what the problem is? You and your fellow managers. You folks are too lazy to do your jobs. Firing somebody for performance is the easiest way to get rid of them. The level of proof is lower than what is needed when firing for discipline. Quit whining and just do your job. Quit bashing the Union representatives until you've cleaned your own house.
Re: Partnership
USA
Fri Jul 3, 2009 9:55 AM
blah, blah, blah. Another regurgitation of employees are all poor performers because of bad management, or that management sucks because they have to supervise a hoard of lazy do nothing employees.
This tired line of whining gets really old. Give it a rest.
new paradigm
USPS
Wed Jul 1, 2009 10:51 AM
Thoughtful article: I was beyond pleasantly surprised to get thru the entire piecee without seeing the word SOCIALISM (being Fedsmith & all). It's a curious concept, true, but UAW gets so much blame for the state that GM has come to, that they might as well get some real authority.
I'm sure this isn't what Mitt Romney had in mind when he prayed for Detroit's bankruptcy...
Ownership
VA
Wed Jul 1, 2009 10:53 AM
Maybe what GM need is employee ownership.
This form of management work with many organization where management and employee are stake holder.
Stock ownership are reserved for those who work for the organization, not the general public, which entice every level of the organization to work for a better future.
Now, in similar fashion, only US citizen are legally hire to be federal employee. As federal employee, we are the stake holder of our organization/country. One might wondered why there are so many wall/territory are being defensed?
GM & Chrysler Now a Family Business
DOD
Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:40 AM
Ever notice on the TV reports, about how they often show 2, 3, or even 4 generations of GM workers in their news report about the car industry? Well there's a reason for that. I used to like in "GM Country". I gradually learned that a large portion of blue collar UAW jobs that came open were "reserved" for the family members, of current UAW members. Talk about inbreeding and an expensive labor contract. Yes, that's right!! A Joe, or Jane, off the street, & not kin to a UAW worker, would face this challenge (injustice) getting hired.
PREDICTION....in 2-3 years, GM & Chrysler will be building all kinds of small & "green" vehicles. Profit margins are tiny, or nonexistant on those products. They will have weak sales & will lose money. The foreign producers will create ever more big vehicles that Americans love, & eat their lunch. Obama, & his cronies in Congress, will create chaos for the mangement, with their tinkering & interference for their home districts.
Re: GM & Chrysler Now a Family Business
DOD
Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:54 AM
partnership
va
Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:44 AM
No the Unions are not the enemy, but with all due respect, sometimes in the effort to defend all employees, the union ends up preventing management from getting rid of bad employees. Employees who destroy the moral of the majority and seriously handicap the VA in it's mission to serve vets.
Never Buy UAW
US Army Corps of Engineers
Wed Jul 1, 2009 12:42 PM
In the past 30 years since I owned my 1st and subsequent cars, I never bought American nor a UAW assembled vehicle, period. Their wages and demands just increases cost but lowers quality and reliability. I've always owned Hondas and Toyotas put together by hard working NON-UNION/UAW workers who think of doing a good job rather than waste time crying about low union pay or filing grievences on a daily basis.
Re: Never Buy UAW
Fed
Thu Jul 2, 2009 10:09 AM
Re: Never Buy UAW
DoD
Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:06 PM
In other words, the people who put the product together have nothing to do with the workmanship of the product?? Do you have any idea how silly that sounds?
Re: Never Buy UAW
Fed
Tue Jul 7, 2009 8:27 AM
Your comments are silly. Sure, the workers have to do with quality when they put together the cars. But if they put cars together based on faulty design and engineering, then the product is bad no matter what the assembly line worker does.
It starts with the design and engineering. It continues with the assembly line worker being allowed to stop the assembly line if something is wrong. Saturn had that and the quality was good. Can workers at Saturn still do that?
Your comments really distorted what I said.
Re: Never Buy UAW
DoD
Tue Jul 7, 2009 9:28 PM
"Management caused the quality issue that you referred to."
You can spin it however you want but you DID put all the blame on management. You put zero responsibility on the people who put the product together. That's absurd when judging the workmanship of that product yet that's exactly what you did.
Re: Never Buy UAW
Fed
Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:58 AM
Yes, you did quote me. However, you did not acknowledge that it starts with management getting the proper people to design the cars and put an assembly line together that is needed to put together good cars. Again, you have distorted the facts and my statements to suit your needs. Quoting out of context is a distortion of the facts. Read the entire contents and not just the items that suit your needs.
Management must do its job so that labor can do its job. Management failed to do so, while taking exorbitant compensation. Hope this answers your questions.
Re: Never Buy UAW
DoD
Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:49 PM
You can't because you haven't.
Government Motors
CBP
Wed Jul 1, 2009 2:14 PM
Personally, I'll never by another GM or Chrysler product!
Mission First - People Always
former Army LR Chief
Wed Jul 1, 2009 3:25 PM
Hey Dave. I have an idea for a new executive order. The title will be: "Mission First; People Always" If only it was that simple.
Good article. Very thoughtful.
Union Respect
Department of the Navy
Wed Jul 1, 2009 3:59 PM
I think the unions will take as much as they can get. After the past 8 years of getting no respect and almost at the verge of extinction, looking out for the best interest of the federal workforce, having a fair say on many of these issues will defenitely help to get back on track. In having a decent and properous work place I think everyone will benift from.
Ownership
Navy
Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:12 AM
I find it interesting to note that a number of comments from this post and other articles concerning the union's role in GM's failure actually sheds light and a much needed reality check on the issue of so-called partnership in the Federal govt. Clearly, unions do not want to be seen a negative light when a company fails, but want a very loud voice in how the company is run. That's what accountability is all about. So, unions, be careful. Sometimes you get what you ask for.
Re: Ownership
Fed
Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:02 AM
Ownership
DCMA
Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:13 AM
While the management of GM/Chrysler are as guilty as the Union in running these car companies into the ground, we the consumer are also at fault. Had we not purchased due to brand loyalty or had we demanded greater quality for our buck who knows where they'd be at now. All I know is after owning a Toyota in the sixties, I never went back because of their lack of quality. I then moved onto a plymouth Scamp and to this day regret selling it off. Having owned 3 GM products in the last 11 years, 2 of which failed at less the 50,000 miles due to transmission issues, this merger/buyout/abortion cannot do anything but damage a bad brand further. I believe that the average consumer will move onto other brands due to this wholesale slaughter of the free market.
POGO SEZ
DON
Thu Jul 2, 2009 6:07 PM
Want to know how to tell we are REALLY in trouble with our US car makers?
Go check out the worker bee parking lots at any GM plant. Take note o fhow many of the vehicles are made by GM and how many are imports? I got a dollar that it will be at least 3-to1 in favor of the imports.
As the cute lil possum once said: "We have met the enemy and he is us!"
Beating dead horses
DOT
Fri Jul 3, 2009 9:09 AM
Let's just save everyone alot of time reading a useless and slanted article and useless comments. We have people in this country who hate Unions and people who understand the need for Unions. Get over it and move on to something else.