HR Specialist Dept of Labor Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:23 AM
Use the same terminology that is used in the KSA questions. The HR clerk that is making the first cut might not know the job, and might not realize that you have done the exact same work if you describe it using different words. You have to get past that first cut before you get to impress the hiring official with your large vocabulary.
KSAs
FedUp No Such Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:33 AM
I often disagree with Jason’s naïveness with regard to the federal application process, particularly the assumptions that all jobs found on USAJobs can be taken at face value for what they advertise, but KSAs are very similar to a written interview. When answering a KSA that typically request specific examples of the preceding KSA question, the applicant should view it in the same mannerism as answering questions in a face-to-face interview.
This will benefit the applicant should they make it to the interview process three months down the road. Mainly because many agencies are switching to a behavioral-based interview format that ask questions such as, “Give me an example of a time when…what did you do…and what was the end result, or what would you have done differently?”
Sure this may sound familiar to those of us that have been searching in the private sector, but the federal sector is improving their methods of weeding out the fluff that make it through the red-tape process.
The STAR Method
Paralegal Specialist USPS Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:09 AM
In the Postal Service, we use the STAR Method, spelling out the:
Situation/Task we confronted,
Action we took; and the
Result.
KSA FORMAT IMPROVEMENT
IM Specialist FEMA/DHS Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:14 AM
Mr. Kay,
Concerning the Article about KSA Format Improvement; I find the idea of paying anyone to professionally develop a KSA should disqualify any applicant. I suspect that it's possible if the applicant seeking a new position is not able to present a KSA in a good format worthy of reading and reviewing that they should consider improving the basic abilities of grammer before moving to what may possibly be the next level of promotion in life. The same goes with providing a proper response to the question. AS the one hiring, I would like to know if the reponse in its entirety truly represents the applicant.
You wouldn't happen to be interested in writing an article about dumbing down America by leveling the playing field....would you?
Regards.
Re: KSA FORMAT IMPROVEMENT
Retired CWO U.S. Coast Guard Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:20 PM
I'm inclined to agree with you that applicants should be required to write their own submissions, however not all positions require strong written communications skills. I would assume that individuals who are concerned about judging an individual based upon their ability to provide written communications would be able to properly spell "grammar" before considering that as a requirement. Unfortunately, the dumbing of America is what it is.
Just a bit tired of the advertising...
HR Specialist SSA Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:23 AM
I find J. Kay's articles self-serving; nothing like a free (?) ad for your company. KSAs are simple; they're listed in the annt; if there is a size limit, that's normally in the annt also. With increased usage of automated applications, submitted docs like KSA narratives are normally uploaded to your account for that annt. The first-person tip is a good one. Ensure you include enough info in your KSA narratives so the hiring ranking panel/hiring official can make an informed decision on whether or not you have the appropriate experience to meet the specific KSA. KSAs are also your opportunity to highlight your Written Communication skills-so use spell/grammar check and read it out-loud! Remember that the biggest words do not always get your point across in the most effective manner. Finally, remember there is a difference between rating (qualifications) and ranking (differentiating between qual'd candidates). KSAs are to demonstrate why you're the BEST qualified applicant.
Re: Just a bit tired of the advertising...
HR Specialist Federal Agency Thu Jul 2, 2009 11:07 AM
I fully agree with your comments. There are many, many documents online that show an individual how to write a KSA response. Paying someone to do this to get a Federal job is unnecessary. My advice to applicants, search for online guidance and then take your time and really address the "I" part of your experience in your KSA responses.
Good luck!
Paying to have your KSAs written
Aerospace Engineer DoD Sat Jul 4, 2009 3:27 PM
If you have to pay somebody to write your KSAs for you, you're not the person that I would want working for me. If you can write at an 8th grade level, you should be able to do KSAs just fine.
KSA's
deshirley01 DON Mon Jul 6, 2009 11:16 PM
While hiring a proffessional to help in writing a resume should not be the case, I have found that the hiring agency normally will not provide any insight as to what is required. When asking my HR about any details, I get " It's in the Job announcment.", and actually what is being looked for is not. Many of my co-workers have been passed over because they didn't have the proper"buzz words".
KSA's are important, but transparency is necessary also!
Proper KSA Format
Supervisor VA Tue Jul 7, 2009 8:08 AM
Does not help! There are many barriers. First of all often the person submitting an application is applying in-house. There numerous problems with in-house applications and applications in general. There is "pre-selection" even if everyone is in denial of it. There are racial barriers. Sometimes you are hired because you are black. Sometimes you are not hired because you are white. Sometimes you are not hired because you are Native American. On and on that list of barriers go. Amazing everyone is in denial of racial barriers. A new racial barrier has arisen that everyone is in total denial of and that is being White. Another barrier is being in-house. Often management believes that they need "clear eyes", "new minds" and on and on and on. Another barrier is being a retired military. Barriers exist and no matter good your KSAs are you are not getting the job. No matter how qualified you are you are not getting the job. My experience covers 15 years.
Re: Proper KSA Format
HR Specialist VA Tue Jul 7, 2009 5:41 PM
Supv, I'm guessing by your comments that you are white (so am I). Has anyone ever NOT been hired, in or out of VA, because they are black? Speaking of "racial barriers" and "denial". Further, as a supervisor yourself, you apparently were hired by somebody, at some point; curious - was the person who selected you of the same racial background? Were you hired "in-house" or from the outside? Could you have been the beneficiary of "pre-selection"? And as a supervisor yourself, do you reserve the right to select applicants from outside if you think they may be the best choice? Or do you feel obligated to go with the in-house candidate in all situations? And does being retired military prevent one from being hired or give a leg up for them; you don't make clear how that "barrier" works. You're right; even being qualified doesn't guarantee anything. That may just mean that there are other well-qualified candidates who bring something else that management values for that vacancy.
Re: Proper KSA Format
HR Specialist DOD Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:14 AM
@Supervisor VA,
There are far too many generalizations in your post. Sounds as if you have the mind-set that minorities are given the advantage in all situations. Perhaps they are selected, not simply because they are minorities, but because they are qualified. Being qualified is the advantage, but if have the mindset that minorities are inferior, you'd never believe that. I know plenty of retired military who haven't encountered any barriers to securing a federal position. I guess it really depends on the corporate culture in the agency where you're employed. I've seen many soldiers retire or Friday and return on Monday to a federal position, in many in-stances the same position they held while active duty.
KSAs are a barrier to those who are reluctant to address them, but they can give a candidate an advantage over other applicants if they are well written. I don't condone preselection, but who's to say that person isn't the best-qualified?
KSAs
Medical transcriptionist Dept. of Veterans Affairs Thu Jul 9, 2009 2:41 PM
I graduated from college with a degree in science and a 3.78 GPA. I currently work for the VA.
I will never forget a seminar where a 19-year-old girl with a high school education that worked in HR told me, "If I don't like your KSAs, I won't hire you." As she knew absolutely nothing about my field, how would she know who was best qualified for the job?
When coding positions opened up, which required intensive knowledge of medical terminology, unit clerks who had no such knowledge were hired. The VA paid for them to take those classes which I and other members in my department had already taken. So here again we had HR personnel hiring, having no idea who was best qualified for the job.
In light of the above, KSAs have to go! The one hiring should know the job and what qualities/education are needed, i.e., the coding supervisor should have done the interviewing. The decision should not be in the hands of some little kid who, by benefit of working in HR, has the power.
Another Suggestion
Dept of Labor
Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:23 AM
Use the same terminology that is used in the KSA questions. The HR clerk that is making the first cut might not know the job, and might not realize that you have done the exact same work if you describe it using different words. You have to get past that first cut before you get to impress the hiring official with your large vocabulary.
KSAs
No Such
Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:33 AM
I often disagree with Jason’s naïveness with regard to the federal application process, particularly the assumptions that all jobs found on USAJobs can be taken at face value for what they advertise, but KSAs are very similar to a written interview. When answering a KSA that typically request specific examples of the preceding KSA question, the applicant should view it in the same mannerism as answering questions in a face-to-face interview.
This will benefit the applicant should they make it to the interview process three months down the road. Mainly because many agencies are switching to a behavioral-based interview format that ask questions such as, “Give me an example of a time when…what did you do…and what was the end result, or what would you have done differently?”
Sure this may sound familiar to those of us that have been searching in the private sector, but the federal sector is improving their methods of weeding out the fluff that make it through the red-tape process.
The STAR Method
USPS
Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:09 AM
In the Postal Service, we use the STAR Method, spelling out the:
Situation/Task we confronted,
Action we took; and the
Result.
KSA FORMAT IMPROVEMENT
FEMA/DHS
Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:14 AM
Mr. Kay,
Concerning the Article about KSA Format Improvement; I find the idea of paying anyone to professionally develop a KSA should disqualify any applicant. I suspect that it's possible if the applicant seeking a new position is not able to present a KSA in a good format worthy of reading and reviewing that they should consider improving the basic abilities of grammer before moving to what may possibly be the next level of promotion in life. The same goes with providing a proper response to the question. AS the one hiring, I would like to know if the reponse in its entirety truly represents the applicant.
You wouldn't happen to be interested in writing an article about dumbing down America by leveling the playing field....would you?
Regards.
Re: KSA FORMAT IMPROVEMENT
U.S. Coast Guard
Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:20 PM
Just a bit tired of the advertising...
SSA
Thu Jul 2, 2009 9:23 AM
I find J. Kay's articles self-serving; nothing like a free (?) ad for your company. KSAs are simple; they're listed in the annt; if there is a size limit, that's normally in the annt also. With increased usage of automated applications, submitted docs like KSA narratives are normally uploaded to your account for that annt. The first-person tip is a good one. Ensure you include enough info in your KSA narratives so the hiring ranking panel/hiring official can make an informed decision on whether or not you have the appropriate experience to meet the specific KSA. KSAs are also your opportunity to highlight your Written Communication skills-so use spell/grammar check and read it out-loud! Remember that the biggest words do not always get your point across in the most effective manner. Finally, remember there is a difference between rating (qualifications) and ranking (differentiating between qual'd candidates). KSAs are to demonstrate why you're the BEST qualified applicant.
Re: Just a bit tired of the advertising...
Federal Agency
Thu Jul 2, 2009 11:07 AM
Good luck!
Paying to have your KSAs written
DoD
Sat Jul 4, 2009 3:27 PM
If you have to pay somebody to write your KSAs for you, you're not the person that I would want working for me. If you can write at an 8th grade level, you should be able to do KSAs just fine.
KSA's
DON
Mon Jul 6, 2009 11:16 PM
While hiring a proffessional to help in writing a resume should not be the case, I have found that the hiring agency normally will not provide any insight as to what is required. When asking my HR about any details, I get " It's in the Job announcment.", and actually what is being looked for is not. Many of my co-workers have been passed over because they didn't have the proper"buzz words".
KSA's are important, but transparency is necessary also!
Proper KSA Format
VA
Tue Jul 7, 2009 8:08 AM
Does not help! There are many barriers. First of all often the person submitting an application is applying in-house. There numerous problems with in-house applications and applications in general. There is "pre-selection" even if everyone is in denial of it. There are racial barriers. Sometimes you are hired because you are black. Sometimes you are not hired because you are white. Sometimes you are not hired because you are Native American. On and on that list of barriers go. Amazing everyone is in denial of racial barriers. A new racial barrier has arisen that everyone is in total denial of and that is being White. Another barrier is being in-house. Often management believes that they need "clear eyes", "new minds" and on and on and on. Another barrier is being a retired military. Barriers exist and no matter good your KSAs are you are not getting the job. No matter how qualified you are you are not getting the job. My experience covers 15 years.
Re: Proper KSA Format
VA
Tue Jul 7, 2009 5:41 PM
Re: Proper KSA Format
DOD
Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:14 AM
There are far too many generalizations in your post. Sounds as if you have the mind-set that minorities are given the advantage in all situations. Perhaps they are selected, not simply because they are minorities, but because they are qualified. Being qualified is the advantage, but if have the mindset that minorities are inferior, you'd never believe that. I know plenty of retired military who haven't encountered any barriers to securing a federal position. I guess it really depends on the corporate culture in the agency where you're employed. I've seen many soldiers retire or Friday and return on Monday to a federal position, in many in-stances the same position they held while active duty.
KSAs are a barrier to those who are reluctant to address them, but they can give a candidate an advantage over other applicants if they are well written. I don't condone preselection, but who's to say that person isn't the best-qualified?
KSAs
Dept. of Veterans Affairs
Thu Jul 9, 2009 2:41 PM
I graduated from college with a degree in science and a 3.78 GPA. I currently work for the VA.
I will never forget a seminar where a 19-year-old girl with a high school education that worked in HR told me, "If I don't like your KSAs, I won't hire you." As she knew absolutely nothing about my field, how would she know who was best qualified for the job?
When coding positions opened up, which required intensive knowledge of medical terminology, unit clerks who had no such knowledge were hired. The VA paid for them to take those classes which I and other members in my department had already taken. So here again we had HR personnel hiring, having no idea who was best qualified for the job.
In light of the above, KSAs have to go! The one hiring should know the job and what qualities/education are needed, i.e., the coding supervisor should have done the interviewing. The decision should not be in the hands of some little kid who, by benefit of working in HR, has the power.